Do you rate James McCarthy as a top footballer?

Godot.

I often read in the papers about him getting linked to the top clubs in England.

But does anyone else not understand what all the hype is about?
He has added nothing to the Irish midfield despite the huge fanfare for his inclusion.

I just think a central midfielder who cost £13m (and one constantly linked to the likes of Arsenal and Tottenham) should be driving the team forward and always looking cultured on the ball. But even Glenn Whelan has looked better for Ireland.

When I see the likes of Steven Davis and Scott Brown adding a lot of value to their teams despite not being half as highly rated, I just expect much more!

Dozen Wicked Words

He's not linked with top clubs any more is he? Certainly shouldn't be if he is.

digzy

I'd actually agree with you. I think he's seriously overrated.

No doubt we'll have the usual crew on here "just cos he's not like Steve gerrard etc...." Defending the 'unseen work'

Mikeyt086

For Everton, the majority of the time, he is.

For Ireland, he's not.

Some people don't suit international football, it would appear that McCarthy is one of those players. Either way the same player we see in blue for Everton is not the same one we see in green for Ireland.

Paully D

He does a certain job and does it very well at top-half Premier League level.

However, I don't think he's good enough to play for one of the top clubs in the Premier League (those consistently challenging for Champions League qualification for example) nor do I think he's as poor as a lot make out on here.

There's no shame in being a player of that standard.

Godot.

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

For Everton, the majority of the time, he is.

For Ireland, he's not.

Some people don't suit international football, it would appear that McCarthy is one of those players. Either way the same player we see in blue for Everton is not the same one we see in green for Ireland.

Is it MON's tactics that are the problem, in your opinion?

fermanagh_man

I'd have him at Leeds any day off the week and they would be a good club for him

Mr.Nice Guy

He was Man of the Match against Man United only six weeks ago. Gary Neville was praising him all game.

It's the tactics.

O'Neill seems to want him and Whelan to be a lot more static in the centre of the park. I watched him today and he'd offload the ball and hardly offer any movement. Martinez wouldn't stand for this at Everton. He'd be encouraged to get forward way more.

He is a lot more dynamic at club level than at international level, and it's the tactics that are to blame.

Magico Gonzalez

The combination of him and whelan doesnt work. Ireland look stuck in the past tactically. Simply have to get your best 11 on the pitch.

eh i dunno

Watch him every week for everton and don't get the hype. Lee carsley was a better player for everton and for Ireland. Doesn't seem interested or aggressive enough and always keeps it simple. Woeful goal scoring record too. If everton got 20m for him I'd be delighted.

fermanagh_man

fermanagh_man wrote: »

I'd have him at Leeds any day off the week and they would be a good club for him

I though this was article about McClean

eagle eye

I think he is a class act and should be playing for one of the huge clubs in football.

His international form is simply down to a game plan that is too conservative.

Mikeyt086

Godot. wrote: »

Is it MON's tactics that are the problem, in your opinion?

No I see it more as an issue with McCarthy himself.

aramush

Great player for Everton.

bradlente

Good player that's hit a bit of a plateau.Might not of had a great game today and maybe hasn't had the impact we all expected when he hit the international scene at first but he's a massive player for us going forward.

NIMAN

No.
He must save his great games that everyone chats about to when I'm not watching him, cos any time I've seen him he's been average at best.

Iused2likebusts

For Ireland I struggle to see that he is in anyway better than Glenn Whelan.

Blue giant

I might be slated for this but I'd say McCarthy is a similar player to Busquets, although not as good. He reads the game very well. He plays simple passes and rarely loses the ball. He's never going to be the main creative force in a team though. He does his job well but he doesn't do much else. I think a lot of people were hoping he would turn into the next Roy Keane but he's never going to be that type of player.

PropJoe10

I've seen him for Everton and seen him for Ireland and its like watching two different players. Its very puzzling indeed. It cant be easy playing alongside someone as bad as Glenn Whelan but he certainly should be better than he is. He just seems to go completely missing in games for Ireland.

Pro. F

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

For Ireland I struggle to see that he is in anyway better than Glenn Whelan.

Just as good defensively but much better in possession. Can reliably receive the ball when under pressure, turn on it and play a pass where it needs to go - Whelan can't do that.

He's staying deeper and keeping it simple for Ireland and he's doing a fine job in that unspectacular role. He's one of our better players, our problems lie elsewhere. Specifically, a lack of goal scoring options other than Robbie and a manager who is too cautious.

Iused2likebusts

Pro. F wrote: »

Just as good defensively but much better in possession. Can reliably receive the ball when under pressure, turn on it and play a pass where it needs to go - Whelan can't do that.

He's staying deep and keeping it simple for Ireland and he's doing a fine job in that unspectacular role. He's one of our better players, our problems lie elsewhere. Specifically, a lack of goal scoring options other than Robbie and a manager who is too cautious.

I just don't think he makes himself available for the ball enough though to show these attributes. He very rarely receives the ball on the half turn and gets us playing forward. I don't think him and Whelan are the problem it's the 4 players in front of them. Our front 4 either have pace McLean and long or a bit of finesse hoolahan and keane but we don't have a player that has both. Our front 4 tonight were so easy to defend against.

Joshua J

The season before this one he was an absolute monster for Everton. Carried us in so many games with his all action style and tireless covering of the ground. This season past he has gone backwards like all Evertons players, bar John Stones (who'll move for big money this window I'm betting). Coleman is a shadow of his former self too. This is not the thread for a rant about why so I'll leave it at that.

The thing, as an Everton fan, that constantly surprises me though is that Naismith has convinced not one but two managers that he's a footballer. I don't even.....

Average player for an average club.

I'll be surprised if he goes on to better things.

fryup

he's good with his elbow

eh i dunno

rarnes1 wrote: »

Average player for an average club.

I'll be surprised if he goes on to better things.

Typical rarnes anti Everton.

AllGunsBlazing

Johnny Giles had McCarthy pegged sometime ago. Naturally gifted but goes missing when the action heats up. Looked lively enough first half but when the scots upped their game he went back into his shell.

The self belief just doesn't seem to be there. Could dominate a midfield if he really wanted to.

Corholio

That's the problem when you play similar players in similair positions and tell them to do similar things. I don't think McCarthy has been brilliant or anything but the amount of stick he gets is misguided imo when the criticism should be the set up in the team. It reminds me a bit of Cleverley, played shocking for most of the season under Lambert then when Sherwood came in and pushed him way more forward he was superb and looked like such a completely different player. When people says he goes missing, he goes missing from what though? From bursting forward with the ball and playing passes, not really his game. Neither is it to perform wonder tackles time after time. He's a good player but the Irish set up isn't getting the best out of him. I know the people who like to have their individual targets will argue different, but I firmly believe he's being criticised for not doing things that he's not set up to do in the first place.

eh i dunno

eh i dunno wrote: »

Typical rarnes anti Everton.

Not at all. Have no connection to Everton. Just speaking the truth imo.

Lets see does he go on to bigger things

LowOdour

Corholio wrote: »

I firmly believe he's being criticised for not doing things that he's not set up to do in the first place.

John Barnes was a genius when he played with liverpool but rarely performed the same level for England..he said if England wanted the best out of him they needed to play the Liverpool way.

The point is quite valid and would be in McCarthy's case too, but in that CM position he probably needs to do more to assert his game. Like a few have said, he is getting more abuse than he probably deserves.

bradlente

When he first came into the team when he was at Wigan he was seemingly the new attacking midfielder that was going to unlock defences for us,but since then he's been marginalised by his role in the team.It'd be great if he was utilised in the way most of us initially thought he would be.
With Houlihan less likely to play an important creative role in the future I think McCarthy should move up the pitch and take that role on a more consistent basis for us.
He and Coleman are our two best players so we should try play in a style similar to Everton.

It's also possible that he just doesn't give a shít about international football.

Turtwig

In any sport a player has to play in the position and role they're comfortable in. Try playing Lionel Messi or CR at wing back. They'd probably still be good players, but as good as they can be? Most definitely not. MON's system does not suit James McCarthy at all. The criticism the RTE pundits and others are heaping on is very unfair. I can't comment on whether he is a top player. Haven't seen enough of him. What I have seen though has been very positive. Definitely one of those players I would say has potential to be a top player. Whether he'll reach that standard is another thing. If he doesn't no shame in that. He's by far in a way the best midfielder Ireland has. I hope someday that Dunphy is made eat his words.

sonic85

Ive not seen much of mccarthy unfortunately to give an opinion either way but can somebody who has watched him extensively tell me what type of a player he is - what exactly is his role at club level?

Surely the very first thing a manager would do at any level would be to play to his players strengths? Since his days at hamilton and reading reports about him ive had high hopes for him but the few times ive seen him play he has been very subdued - not terrible but not very good either.

Is he the type of player who excels with a better calibre of player around him and playing with ireland and slightly inferior players doesnt allow him to play with the same freedom and express himself like he would normally? Or is that way off?

What way should he be used for ireland?

bradlente

sonic85 wrote: »

What way should he be used for ireland?

I think he might be better for us playing behind the frontline.He's got the ability to do damage there and there'd be less pressure on him to have to protect what's behind him.He has a good work rate so that doesn't mean he couldn't help out when we don't have the ball but his general positioning would be further up the pitch.At least when we're playing against teams that are at our level anyway,when it comes to bigger teams bringing him further back makes perfect sense.

LuckyLloyd

Pro. F wrote: »

Just as good defensively but much better in possession. Can reliably receive the ball when under pressure, turn on it and play a pass where it needs to go - Whelan can't do that.

He's staying deeper and keeping it simple for Ireland and he's doing a fine job in that unspectacular role. He's one of our better players, our problems lie elsewhere. Specifically, a lack of goal scoring options other than Robbie and a manager who is too cautious.

Turtwig wrote: »

In any sport a player has to play in the position and role they're comfortable in. Try playing Lionel Messi or CR at wing back. They'd probably still be good players, but as good as they can be? Most definitely not. MON's system does not suit James McCarthy at all. The criticism the RTE pundits and others are heaping on is very unfair. I can't comment on whether he is a top player. Haven't seen enough of him. What I have seen though has been very positive. Definitely one of those players I would say has potential to be a top player. Whether he'll reach that standard is another thing. If he doesn't no shame in that. He's by far in a way the best midfielder Ireland has. I hope someday that Dunphy is made eat his words.

I'm sorry lads, I'm a simple man. I just think he doesn't give a bollix about playing for Ireland and has done nothing of note for us thus far.

LuckyLloyd

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I'm sorry lads, I'm a simple man. I just think he doesn't give a bollix about playing for Ireland and has done nothing of note for us thus far.

That's pretty much it for me.

All this talk about whether he's a good or bad player, whether O'Neill uses him correctly or not...the big difference between his club form and country form is that he looks like he cares a little more playing for Everton.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That's pretty much it for me.

All this talk about whether he's a good or bad player, whether O'Neill uses him correctly or not...the big difference between his club form and country form is that he looks like he cares a little more playing for Everton.

If that's the case cut him loose

Nalz

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I'm sorry lads, I'm a simple man. I just think he doesn't give a bollix about playing for Ireland and has done nothing of note for us thus far.

I agree also.

Fr Tod Umptious

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I'm sorry lads, I'm a simple man. I just think he doesn't give a bollix about playing for Ireland and has done nothing of note for us thus far.

And I think all that stems from the time he burst on the scene in Scotland as a teenager.
At the time there was a lot of media attention into who he would play for, and he may have come under pressure within his own circle to declare for Ireland when in fact he himself was not convinced.

If I recall before he played his first senior competitive minutes his commitment was is question and he was thrown on as a sub v Macedonia to put that situation to bed.

And we complain about Grealish taking his time.

Fr Tod Umptious

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

And we complain about Grealish taking his time.

The poor modern footballer, such confusion in their lives about their identity.

Oh for simpler times when people declared for us (or didn't, like Kevin Nolan, which was also fine) and then would walk through a wall for us.

I presume Grealish has become more Irish since his brutal cup final showing. I hope his dad makes up his mind for him soon.

Pro. F

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I'm sorry lads, I'm a simple man. I just think he doesn't give a bollix about playing for Ireland and has done nothing of note for us thus far.

You're not a simple man. You just pretend to be when it suits your argument.

Fr Tod Umptious

Deleted User wrote: »

The poor modern footballer, such confusion in their lives about their identity.

Oh for simpler times when people declared for us (or didn't, like Kevin Nolan, which was also fine) and then would walk through a wall for us.

I presume Grealish has become more Irish since his brutal cup final showing. I hope his dad makes up his mind for him soon.

For various reasons some 2nd and subsequent generation Irish feel more "Irish" than others.
The likes of Mick McCarthy, Kevin Kilbane would as you say walk through a wall for us, Harry Kane is 2nd generation Irish and has no interest in walking through that wall, and Grealish may be somewhere in the middle.

My own opinion is that James McCarthy is the same.

Will I Amnt

If McCarthy's heart isn't in it then what's Coleman's excuse?

fullstop

For Everton, yes. For Ireland, no because he's usually watching the ball fly over his head.

osarusan

Magico Gonzalez wrote: »

Simply have to get your best 11 on the pitch.

I think this is too simplistic an in a way, is actually part of the problem - looking at players who do well at their clubs and thinking they should be playing for the national side as a result.

ie, 'this player is really good for his club so lets put him on the national team' isn't that brilliant an idea if the job he does so well for his club isn't the job he'll be asked to do for his country.

Ireland don't play just like Everton, and McCarthy isn't given the just same job as he is with Everton, so we shouldn't really expect him to play the same way (not that I think he is that brilliant for Everton either).

Just a little Samba

McCarthy is proven he is a premiership quality midfielder for Wigan and then Everton since he was a teenager. When he is played in a system where he is encouraged to get on the ball, keep it on the deck, bring it forward and play passes to wingers/strikers he in very effective.

When he's played as a deep sitting disruptive defensive player beside dross like Whelan he is completely wasted.

Corholio

Deleted User wrote: »

That's pretty much it for me.

All this talk about whether he's a good or bad player, whether O'Neill uses him correctly or not...the big difference between his club form and country form is that he looks like he cares a little more playing for Everton.

That always seems to be the first thing said about players when comparing club and international form though. It's always said that they don't care, imo that's just the 'common' man's criticism of players who are seen to be not performing. That we would crawl to play for our country and other such generic phrases that come out from time to time.

I don't believe for a second that he doesn't care about playing for Ireland, it's far too easy a criticism to throw out there when players are not seen to be playing to a certain standard.

Axel Lamp

No

Nalz

Will I Amnt wrote: »

If McCarthy's heart isn't in it then what's Coleman's excuse?

One poor performance?

Or do you think he's been consistently poor\average for us?

Will I Amnt

Trilla wrote: »

One poor performance?

Or do you think he's been consistently poor\average for us?

Consistently average for Ireland and good, often very good for Everton. The same as McCarthy but only one player doesn't have their heart in it?

keeponhurling

Well the Scotttish fans had some interesting songs about him, perhaps should take it as a compliment ?!

Ferris_Bueller

He's a good player but he has never been that impressive for Ireland. He does the simple thing well but when there is no one around him to produce the magic that wins you matches then he looks like a very average player. I'd consider him similar to the likes of Carrick, consistently good at doing the simple thing but he's not going to be the type who stands out on the pitch by going on mazy runs or scoring from 30 yards.