Do you rate James McCarthy as a top footballer?

redzerdrog

He is at his level with both Everton and Ireland.

Mate of mine is an Everton fan and is convinced he doesnt want to play for Ireland and says he wouldn't be surprised to see him retire from international football very early in his career.

Corholio

Corholio wrote: »

That always seems to be the first thing said about players when comparing club and international form though. It's always said that they don't care, imo that's just the 'common' man's criticism of players who are seen to be not performing. That we would crawl to play for our country and other such generic phrases that come out from time to time.

I don't believe for a second that he doesn't care about playing for Ireland, it's far too easy a criticism to throw out there when players are not seen to be playing to a certain standard.

Its not some generic criticism in McCarthys case though, our own assistant manager commented on the frequency he pulls out of friendlies citing injuries...though Keane blamed Everton and obviously didn't want to note that McCarthy seems happy to go along with it.

Paully D

Paully D wrote: »

He does a certain job and does it very well at top-half Premier League level.

However, I don't think he's good enough to play for one of the top clubs in the Premier League (those consistently challenging for Champions League qualification for example) nor do I think he's as poor as a lot make out on here.

There's no shame in being a player of that standard.

Done a good job on Yaya Toure for Wigan in the cup final to be fair.

Corholio

Deleted User wrote: »

Its not some generic criticism in McCarthys case though, our own assistant manager commented on the frequency he pulls out of friendlies citing injuries...though Keane blamed Everton and obviously didn't want to note that McCarthy seems happy to go along with it.

Easier said than done when you've made a big move to a better club to go against your manager. Giggs got away with it for years not giving a **** about playing for his country before people realised it, until McCarthy goes anywhere near those levels I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. The thing is if McCarthy was tearing up matches people wouldn't be bandying about conspiracy theories on how a player they see on television feels.

Ranchu

Deleted User wrote: »

Its not some generic criticism in McCarthys case though, our own assistant manager commented on the frequency he pulls out of friendlies citing injuries...though Keane blamed Everton and obviously didn't want to note that McCarthy seems happy to go along with it.

You are aware that after he pulled out of the Scottish match he missed 6 weeks? He played yesterday and was one of our better players. There is an absolutely bizzare agenda against him by certain sections of the irish support.

I watch a lot of him as an Everton fan and I think he is a great defensive midfielder. The likes of Dunphy talking about how he should be playing in a more attacking role is nonsense. That's not his game and I think that's what leads to disappointment amongst irish fans.

tastyt

Ferris_Bueller wrote: »

He's a good player but he has never been that impressive for Ireland. He does the simple thing well but when there is no one around him to produce the magic that wins you matches then he looks like a very average player. I'd consider him similar to the likes of Carrick, consistently good at doing the simple thing but he's not going to be the type who stands out on the pitch by going on mazy runs or scoring from 30 yards.

I agree with you that he does the simple things well and plays deep like Carrick.

However Carrick is a much much better player. Carrick is an excellent passer of the ball, he can fire a pass through gaps in midfield or into the strikers with great pace and accuracy. McCarthy hasn't got the vision or passing ability of Carrick unfortunately

Liam O

I was furious with him as I was leaving the match yesterday, told a few Scottish fans too.

I was really excited when I seen him coming through and declaring for us. Exactly the kind of player that Ireland needed. Someone who could control the middle of the park and stop teams from cutting through us who was also good technically. The type of player who we seen a few weeks ago against Man United. Keane would sit out the friendlies but when it came to game time there was no doubting his commitment. With McCarthy you just don't see that. He spends a lot of time just walking around the centre circle and not showing for the ball. He was left out by Trap all that time and I'm not sure if that lead to him becoming disillusioned with the setup but it's plain for everyone to see imo and it's disappointing.

What's more worrying is that it seems to be an attitude that's prevalent in the squad. Not playing our best players and some that do play not giving their all isn't exactly going to turn it around anytime soon and can only get worse. What makes performances like yesterday even more baffling is looking at how the likes of Keane and O'Neill have been in the past at motivating players, nobody really shows that attitude bar Coleman and Robbie Keane when he plays now of giving absolutely everything and it's really sad to see as an Irish fan.

Ferris_Bueller

tastyt wrote: »

I agree with you that he does the simple things well and plays deep like Carrick.

However Carrick is a much much better player. Carrick is an excellent passer of the ball, he can fire a pass through gaps in midfield or into the strikers with great pace and accuracy. McCarthy hasn't got the vision or passing ability of Carrick unfortunately

Yeah unfortunately he isn't as good but he's still young, in terms of playing style I would class them as similar though. Good players but they aren't the headline grabbers that this Irish team is crying out for.

TheDoc

Personally don't think he is as good as people make out, and would go as far as saying he is a bit of a bottler.

There is clear ability there, and while I don't watch Everton I see enough glimpses of him to see he does well for them. Friends who watch him more regularly insist he is a good player.

But that makes it even more worrying. Ireland have a complete void in the midfield of talent, creativity and ability.

He frequently hides from receiving the ball, and never demands it. I used to lambast the team for playing long ball, but it's become more evident that it's only option for O'Shea and Wilson, as McCarthy never comes to look for it.

He plays way to safe, rarely takes a risk, and just seems to hide from receiving the ball. Was really noticable against Poland, and more noticeable again against Scotland. I appreciate he operates in a more secluded role, and therefore I don't expect to see him outside the opposing box rifling in shots or setting up goals.

But I do expect him to make angels to receive the ball from the centre backs, and orchestrate some of the play, and manage the game a little.

My only exposure to him is really for Ireland, where he appears to be horrendously underwhelming and as I said, borderline bottler. There is no other reason I can think for him visibibly not making angles to receive the ball, by moving behind opposition players, or turning his back on play.

The RTE panel are typically wide of the mark with their analysis imo, but with McCarthy they are typically spot on. He is someone with clear ability, which is never utilised for us.

I've also held the same queries as Lloyd, in that I query if he actually cares or gives a **** about playing for Ireland, or is he part of that modern football trend where its a means to further his financial remuneration at club level.

Other nations fans visibly loose their **** when their talented players underperform and seem to be anonymous. McCarthy appears to be to get an easy ride. The focus and negative comments typically go towards the likes of your Whelans, Greens and Andrews. Poor players, that for some reason we expect operate as effective CM's. That the one that actually clearly has the ability, rarely does, baffling he doesn't have more questions asked of him.

Chancer3001

People saying he should play further forward for Ireland must have forgotten the game where he did play further forward. Was absolutely useless. Barely touched the ball. Couldn't get into the game at all.

On another point. I think if xavi played for Ireland he'd look ****. Carrick too. A player who builds his game around quick, sharp, incisive passing CANNOT play that game on his own. You can't pass and move if there's nobody else to pass and move with.

If you're a quick,neat passer and you're giving it to whelan and hendrix, it's just not going to work.

They dont have the ability or the know how to play the same game as you.

Just leaves you playing easy,safe passes, not losing possession, but not really doing anything either

TheDoc

Chancer3001 wrote: »

On another point. I think if xavi played for Ireland he'd look ****. Carrick too. A player who builds his game around quick, sharp, incisive passing CANNOT play that game on his own. You can't pass and move if there's nobody else to pass and move with.

No they wouldn't. They have strong mentalities and would always look to receive the ball. If people weren't moving to receive the ball from them, they'd let you know about it. They arn't scared of doing something the manager hadn't written on a whiteboard.

No one is expecting McCarthy to carry the team on his back, but he should be looking to receive the ball and try dictate our play from deep. That there is occasions were he is at a good angle, and the ball get's lumped, it says it all that he turned his back and trots forward, rather then verbally lash someone out of it.

It's probably a mental thing, in that he just isn't capable to play a role in the limelight with that sort of responsability. Calling him a bottler is harsh, not all players can deal with being the main man. He's probably good for Everton because he isn't the main man, and has strong character and leaders around him, and for Ireland we expect him to be the spark to get things going.

Can't help feel a good manager/coach would have him singing for us. He appears to be the perfect player you want to build around at the level we are at. Sure he isn't a Carrick or Pirlo or what have you, but he is clearly a competant deep lying CM with good distribution, that seems to just go into hiding for Ireland games when the spotlight is on.

nice_guy80

He's being played out of position for Ireland. He should be in Whelan's position.

dundalkfc10

redzerdrog wrote: »

He is at his level with both Everton and Ireland.

Mate of mine is an Everton fan and is convinced he doesnt want to play for Ireland and says he wouldn't be surprised to see him retire from international football very early in his career.

I've read some dung on this thread. You win hands down.

If he didnt want to play with Ireland, he wouldn't!

764dak

On a global scale, McCarthy is a top footballer. He could walk into most club and international teams in the world.

Chancer3001

764dak wrote: »

On a global scale, McCarthy is a top footballer. He could walk into most club and international teams in the world.

You could say that about every single player in the premiership.

Most teams in the world.

51% of all the teams. Including the third division in Peru. The conference in japan. The bottom league in New Zealand. Etc etc etc

A pretty nonsensical point really

Knex*

While he hasn't helped himself with performances recently for Ireland, he does have some excuses in that he plays for a relatively poor team, made all the worse by archaic management/tactics, where he is nowhere even near to being utilised optimally, and also a bit of unrealistic expectation with regards to what type of player he is.

He's not a game winner, in any sense of the term. He's excellent at being a defensive midfielder and distributing the football to those around him. He's a water carrier, but thankfully more technically gifted than those usually labeled with the term. This is what gets him associated with big teams, Everton included.

Its also perhaps what makes people think he should be doing more. He's not going to run past a player and smack it in the top corner, or play a defence splitting pass. Its not his game.

He's more Lucas than Carrick, or anyone else you might compare him to, imo.

Now, I could be horribly wrong, as I haven't seen him properly more than 10 times for Everton in two years, admittedly, but that's my take on it.

Magico Gonzalez

He's never going to be a key player for a champions league side, but he's good enough to play in the English prem...probably just below top 4 level. Very good footballer but perhaps suffered from excessive hype due to his early breakthrough.

He is certainly good enough to mitigate the need to play Whelan in beside him. HIs ability should free up O´Neill to be less conservative with his midfield choices.

Sadly O'Neill is stuck in the English premiership of the 90s tactically.

nice_guy80

McCarthy, when fit, is the first name in the Everton team.

Liam O

Knex. wrote: »

While he hasn't helped himself with performances recently for Ireland, he does have some excuses in that he plays for a relatively poor team, made all the worse by archaic management/tactics, where he is nowhere even near to being utilised optimally, and also a bit of unrealistic expectation with regards to what type of player he is.

He's not a game winner, in any sense of the term. He's excellent at being a defensive midfielder and distributing the football to those around him. He's a water carrier, but thankfully more technically gifted than those usually labeled with the term. This is what gets him associated with big teams, Everton included.

Its also perhaps what makes people think he should be doing more. He's not going to run past a player and smack it in the top corner, or play a defence splitting pass. Its not his game.

He's more Lucas than Carrick, or anyone else you might compare him to, imo.

Now, I could be horribly wrong, as I haven't seen him properly more than 10 times for Everton in two years, admittedly, but that's my take on it.

The thing is that he doesn't look any better than the poor players arround him for Ireland and looks to be just strolling around the centre circle an awful lot.

For Everton I've seen him cover ground and look better than some very good players around him both technically and in terms of effort.

This makes me feel like his heart is not really in it for Ireland.

Magico Gonzalez

nice_guy80 wrote: »

McCarthy, when fit, is the first name in the Everton team.

Unless you're Martinez I wonder how you make that call. I'd suggest that club captain Jagielka is closer to first on the team sheet, but of course McCarthy is an important player for Everton. Without any undue disrespect, that's probably his level. UEFA cup / top 6 in a good year. An important player for a good premier league side, that's quite the achievement but we don't need to lose the run of ourselves proclaiming him to be the next Steven Gerrard.

He's not a midfielder you buy to win a premiership, champions league or one of the big European leagues.

LuckyLloyd

'Walk into most teams in the world'
'First name on the teamsheet'

Some serious overrating going on in this thread. And if it was all true, it would only make his ponderous performances from us all the more damning.

Magico Gonzalez

His irish performances are worse than his club performances...it was a close run thing and let's be fair his links to Ireland are fairly tenuous.

I was born in Ireland, consider myself Irish. I do know that my mother's parents were born in Scotland. I have an affinity with Scotland, I like the place.

Doesn't mean I feel remotely Scottish or have any doubts about my nationality. You have to wonder what McCarthy feels out there against Scotland. I understand he picked Ireland, as a boy really at 16, when his grandparents had just passed away. Tough decision.

TheDoc

Magico Gonzalez wrote: »

His irish performances are worse than his club performances...it was a close run thing and let's be fair his links to Ireland are fairly tenuous.

I was born in Ireland, consider myself Irish. I do know that my mother's parents were born in Scotland. I have an affinity with Scotland, I like the place.

Doesn't mean I feel remotely Scottish or have any doubts about my nationality. You have to wonder what McCarthy feels out there against Scotland. I understand he picked Ireland, as a boy really at 16, when his grandparents had just passed away. Tough decision.

He put in some wreckless and silly tackles against Scotland, and smacked a little of pandering to the fans. Maybe he has noticed the critique that he seems to go into hiding and got himself fired up?

Worth noting that McCarthy picked Ireland after Scotland had no real interest in him, and were not calling him up to under age panels. He's being quoted in the past as saying that if Scotland called him up for under age he would have picked them without question, and that there was also discussions about his senior declaration.

I've no massive beef with McCarthy or McGeady in terms of allegiances, they wanted to play for Scotland but Scotland didn't want them (or in McGeadys case there was stipulations blocking him) so they came to us for international football. I've more issue with the likes of Grealish, or how Kevin Nolan and others were sounding things out.

A proffesional footballer at a minimum should have a good work ethic and desire to win for the team, I'm probably more of the opinion that McCarthy is just mentally weak and can't cope/doesn't want to be the main main. He operates alongside characters for Everton, and for Ireland a lot of the focus is on him and he seems to succumb to that pressure and go into hiding.

Says a lot about Roy Keane imo, that someone of his character is there on the management team, and can't get McCarthy ticking in an Irish shirt.

noodler

I thought he played ok against Scotland.

Certainly didn't understand the vitriol after the game.

Superior player with Everton but they are a superior team who play football on the deck more often.

I'm not sure if he isn't arsed.

The Aviva is a horrible place these days - a heavy atmosphere of fear with a player just moments away from collective signs of frustration from the crowd when the ball is given away.

pmasterson95

Howard, Jagielka, Baines off the top of my head would be ahead of McCarthy on the Everton teamsheet.

Ranchu

pmasterson95 wrote: »

Howard, Jagielka, Baines off the top of my head would be ahead of McCarthy on the Everton teamsheet.

Haha. Howard!

McCarthy is hugely important to Everton and there was a stat from last season showing a massive difference in points lost while he was injured. He breaks up play and gets the ball moving quickly and in the right direction. He doesn't do anything fancy or score many goals but I would hate to see him leave.

pmasterson95

Ranchu wrote: »

Haha. Howard!

He's hugely important to Everton and there was a stat from last season showing a massive difference in points lost while he was injured. He breaks up play and gets the ball moving quickly and in the right direction. He doesn't do anything fancy or score many goals but I would hate to see him leave.

What? Who are you on about here?

Joshua J

Howard has had an absolute mare of a season. Seen stats where he was the 2nd worst keeper in Europe and I'd well believe it.

McCarthy does different jobs for club and country. He's part of a two man midfield with Gareth Barry who's slow for a footballer so Jimmy has to cover a lot more ground and put in more tackles. He was one of three limited DM's in the last Ireland game. Dunno what people expect tbh.

pmasterson95

Joshua J wrote: »

Howard has had an absolute mare of a season. Seen stats where he was the 2nd worst keeper in Europe and I'd well believe it.

McCarthy does different jobs for club and country. He's part of a two man midfield with Gareth Barry who's slow for a footballer so Jimmy has to cover a lot more ground and put in more tackles. He was one of three limited DM's in the last Ireland game. Dunno what people expect tbh.

I didnt know Everton fans thought Martinez would have Robles or Stanek ahead of Howard.

Joshua J

pmasterson95 wrote: »

I didnt know Everton fans thought Martinez would have Robles or Stanek ahead of Howard.

Howard was having a shocker season and got injured. Robles came in for 3 games and kept 3 clean sheets. Howard came straight back into the team and continued where he left off. I, and many other Evertonians, felt Robles should have been kept on. It's one of the many reasons why Martinez is gonna be under pressure this season.

Boskowski

I think he has great athletical ability, when on song he can show spells of dominance in midfield with his physical presence and engine alone. I've seen him do that for Everton although not recently. On s good day he reminds me a bit of a young Ballack. He is a much better footballer than he has shown in recent international matches anyway. Not sure he has what it takes to be really big but at least he's a regular starter in a solid Premiership side. Ireland doesn't have too many of those.
As with most sports its all in the head with everything else being on a par with his peers. And he's that. He's youngish still, he still has a gear or two in him, whether he'll be able to unlock it we'll see. Wouldn't write him off anyway.

tastyt

Boskowski wrote: »

I think he has great athletical ability, when on song he can show spells of dominance in midfield with his physical presence and engine alone. I've seen him do that for Everton although not recently. On s good day he reminds me a bit of a young Ballack. He is a much better footballer than he has shown in recent international matches anyway. Not sure he has what it takes to be really big but at least he's a regular starter in a solid Premiership side. Ireland doesn't have too many of those.
As with most sports its all in the head with everything else being on a par with his peers. And he's that. He's youngish still, he still has a gear or two in him, whether he'll be able to unlock it we'll see. Wouldn't write him off anyway.

Woah, I don't want to go overboard with criticism of McCarthy but Michael ballack was on a different planet altogether. He was one of the best midfielders in the world and was a huge attacking threat for top European cubs and at international level. Ballack has 42 goals in international football from midfield. McCarthy has never scored.

McCarthy will never be near that standard. Solid premier league player, as is Glenn Whelan.

Chancer3001

Absolute nonsense about a young ballack.

A young ballack was player of the year in Germany. Scoring 20 goals a season. Played in a champions league final with Leverkusen. Barely missed out on winning the bundesliga, finishing twice in second .

Unless of course you watched him play with chemnitzer fc.......which I really doubt you did.

Shanotheslayer

pmasterson95 wrote: »

I didnt know Everton fans thought Martinez would have Robles or Stanek ahead of Howard.

Think every Everton fan I know wanted Robles to start a head of Howard.

Pro. F

tastyt wrote: »

Woah, I don't want to go overboard with criticism of McCarthy but Michael ballack was on a different planet altogether. He was one of the best midfielders in the world and was a huge attacking threat for top European cubs and at international level. Ballack has 42 goals in international football from midfield. McCarthy has never scored.

McCarthy will never be near that standard. Solid premier league player, as is Glenn Whelan.

Chancer3001 wrote: »

Absolute nonsense about a young ballack.

A young ballack was player of the year in Germany. Scoring 20 goals a season. Played in a champions league final with Leverkusen. Barely missed out on winning the bundesliga, finishing twice in second .

Unless of course you watched him play with chemnitzer fc.......which I really doubt you did.

Fûcking hell are you lads not aware of the difference between "reminds me of" and "near that standard"?

Talk about misreading a post. It's like you just saw the mention of Ballack and didn't read anything else he said.

Nalz

How does he remind him of Ballack though?

Pro. F

Trilla wrote: »

How does he remind him of Ballack though?

Seems pretty clear in the post to me. Makes sense too.

Shanotheslayer

Trilla wrote: »

How does he remind him of Ballack though?

By being human. Duh :pac:

Nalz

Pro. F wrote: »

Seems pretty clear in the post to me. Makes sense too.

Not being a dick here but if a footballer reminded me of another footballer it either would be by talent on a consistent basis, or his looks.

Nalz

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

By being human. Duh :pac:

Ahhhhhhh me sees

Pro. F

Trilla wrote: »

Not being a dick here but if a footballer reminded me of another footballer it either would be by talent on a consistent basis, or his looks.

I find that hard to believe. There's obviously lots of distinct ways of playing football even in the same positions. Maybe you just haven't defined what you mean by the word "talent" well enough.

If he is similar to Ballack there'll soon be teams falling over each other to sign him. I doubt that'll be happening tbh.

I'll be surprised if he goes to a bigger club than Everton.

PhlegmyMoses

Ballack had far more in his locker in an attacking sense. McCarthy is good defensively but it's hard to see the comparison when he doesn't do a whole pile of attacking.

Nalz

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Ballack had far more in his locker in an attacking sense. McCarthy is good defensively but it's hard to see the comparison when he doesn't do a whole pile of attacking.

I think whats being said here is that "if player A reminds you of player B" , player A can still be of a lower standard than B without stating he is, but plays similar in some\most ways.

I would never use that phrase in the context above. I'd phrase it as "McCarthy is like a poor mans Ballack" or something similar.

Pro. F

rarnes1 wrote: »

If he is similar to Ballack there'll soon be teams falling over each other to sign him. I doubt that'll be happening tbh.

I'll be surprised if he goes to a bigger club than Everton.

What is it that you get from writing a post like this? Do you like portraying yourself as incapable of observing any of the nuances in such a simple post as Boskowski's?

Nalz

Pro. F wrote: »

What is it that you get from writing a post like this? Do you like portraying yourself as incapable of observing any of the nuances in such a simple post as Boskowski's?

Pro F, ease up a little! I don't think everyone picked up Boskowskis post as you did or as it seemed he meant.

I get what he means now, I just wouldn't word it like he did.

Boskowski

I dint say he is as good as Ballack. That would be nonsense. I know they're apart by a long way. .
But when playing well he reminds me a little in his athleticism and his pull.
Didn't expect to cause such a stir

Pro. F

Trilla wrote: »

Pro F, ease up a little!

Report my post if you don't like it. I'll not be paying any attention to you telling me how to post.

PhlegmyMoses

Trilla wrote: »

I think whats being said here is that "if player A reminds you of player B" , player A can still be of a lower standard than B without stating he is, but plays similar in some\most ways.

I would never use that phrase in the context above. I'd phrase it as "McCarthy is like a poor mans Ballack" or something similar.

But I get the lower standard thing. I just don't see much of a comparison. Ballack liked to attack. McCarthy not so much. If you were to boil each man down to their best trait, Ballack's would be goalscoring from midfield, McCarthy's would be his defensive work. All irrelevant anyway, just an interesting discussion

tastyt

Pro. F wrote: »

Report my post if you don't like it. I'll not be paying any attention to you telling me how to post.

Nor will anybody be taking any notice of you telling them how to interpret somebody else's post.

He was likened to ballack in a post, it was argued against, now get over it.