Next Irish Manager

Mr.H

Ok so another typical campaign is all but over at this stage

4 games left

Sept 4 - Gibralter away
Sept 7 - Georgia home

Oct 8 - Germany home
Oct 11 - Poland away


Poland - (pl) 6 (pts) 14
Scotland - (pl) 6 (pts) 11
Germany - (pl) 5 (pts) 10
Ireland - (pl) 6 (pts) 9
Georgia - (pl) 6 (pts) 3
Gibraltar - (pl) 5 (pts) 0

I like most predict we win 2 (the first two since Georgia is at home we should beat them) and lose 2 (Poland away will be too much considering we will prob be already out of the equation by then) leaving us with 15 points and likely still in 4th place (no champions league though )


So that all being said who will be in charge for the next campaign?

Would you like to see MoN still there?
Maybe Keane could step up?
Could get Fergie to take over if he is itching at getting back into football (part time football might be enough to coax him)?


Who else could do a good job with us and actually get us playing well?

---

Westwood
Coleman

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Duffy---Clark

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Wilson
McGeady---McCarthy---Gibson--McClean

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Long

---

Cox

Keogh, Ward, O'Brien, Judge, Pilkington, Arter, Hendrick, Brady, Meyler, McGoldrick, Rooney, Sammon, Grealish

Ok this is some players I can think of straight out that have been picked and not over the age of 31/32 (i dont think)

No point picking Robbie anymore as much as I love the guy. Same goes for Given, Hoolahan, Kelly, Murphy, Walters, Whelan, O'Shea and Forde.

These players are all 31-34 right now (Given is 39) meaning that for World cup 2020 they will be between 36-39 which is unrealistic. Jesus Given will be 44.

So fresh players must start playing imo from September. We dont need to give up on 2016 yet but start picking younger players on teh bench instead of 30 odd year olds that have no future with the side.

Our squad or potential squad is on paper at least as good as the likes of
Wales (Bale aside of course)
Slovakia (Hamšík and Skrtel being their biggest stars)
Romania
Iceland
Austria
Croatia

all of whom sit on top of their groups currently. I am not saying we should be on top of the group but I am saying that we have a selection available to us that is better than a lot of countries who perform better than we do. Ditch teh excuses. The championship is a better league than a lot of the leagues in Europe and the MLS who most of these countries players play in.

So who can be our savior?

edgecutter

We keep believing that a new manager is the answer, but what is the problem of this Irish team?

thebaz

edgecutter wrote: »

We keep believing that a new manager is the answer, but what is the problem of this Irish team?

spot on - poorest Irish team I can remember - has been for 10 years or so -

How many are playing never mind starring for big teams (like the old days).

Despite what Eamon thinks Wes Houlahan sometimes struggles to get on the Norwich first team - hardly Zinedane Zidane or Perlo class

Amirani

Mr.H wrote: »

These players are all 31-34 right now (Given is 39) meaning that for World cup 2020 they will be between 36-39 which is unrealistic. Jesus Given will be 44.

Ummm...

Mr.H

Thats a fair point.

Maybe the fact we dont have any home grown players?

Maybe if we redeveloped our League to aim at developing talent rather than just having a league because its mandatory it could actually produce players that have passion for the shirt.

Even if we looked at new teams in our league structure like a county system? a draft system? a college system? surely there must be a way to produce a league that excites the fans (bringing gates) while developing young players and encouraging them to stay here until 19-20 anyway before heading to the UK?

How about the FAI?

Maybe the issue is the big wigs in charge for so long need to step down and leave new people with fresh ideas take over?

Could it be the mentality that is, teh International team seems to be just a part time gig or a shop window for many players? Maybe we should focus on players who actually want to win for teh country rather than chase players like Grealish who seems to be flirting with England?

I thought for a long time our issue was that we dont plan for the future. We pick players like Hoolahan who is a great player but too old! why not get these "hoolahan's" in their early 20's rather than wait until they are 30 for their first call up?


I think a new manager who selects a core of players for his future team and then starts bringing through young players who want to play for the country. Hire more scouts to find these young players. Players like Kane, Shelvey, Wickham who could be playing with us right now if we tried harder to get them.

We have the players available. Its finding them is our issue

Trampas

blatter parting gift was to move the World Cup from 2018 to 2020?

Must have been some bribe to do that

Mr.H

thebaz wrote: »

spot on - poorest Irish team I can remember - has been for 10 years or so -

How many are playing never mind starring for big teams (like the old days).

Despite what Eamon thinks Wes Houlahan sometimes struggles to get on the Norwich first team - hardly Zinedane Zidane or Perlo class

Back in teh old days we didnt have "foreign players" in the premier league. Thats why they started or starred.

I still believe that Mccarthy Mceady Coleman Grealish Clarke are all really good players who would walk into that scottish team that has gotten 4 points over us

We say we dont have the players but our team plays for better teams than theirs

Mr.H

Trampas wrote: »

blatter parting gift was to move the World Cup from 2018 to 2020?

Must have been some bribe to do that

good spot but the point stands. 35 year olds instead of 37 year olds are hardly much more help

thebaz

Mr.H wrote: »

I still believe that Mccarthy Mceady Coleman Grealish Clarke are all really good players who would walk into that scottish team that has gotten 4 points over us

We say we dont have the players but our team plays for better teams than theirs

Disagree completely - but then I would set the bar higher than Scotland

Roy Keane, Dennis irwin, Duff all played at top teams ;

McGeady is a bit team player at Everton, and most Evertonians like it that way -
Clarke is way off been a top class international - Coleman form has detiorated this year - pinning our hopes on mid-table reserves really shows a drop in standard of Irish players. Regardless who was managing the players are not good eneogh - simple as

Oat23

Mr.H wrote: »

Thats a fair point.

Maybe the fact we dont have any home grown players?

Maybe if we redeveloped our League to aim at developing talent rather than just having a league because its mandatory it could actually produce players that have passion for the shirt.

This is what is needed. The league has produced several internationals recently (Long, Coleman, McClean etc.) and that is without any help at all from the FAI. We can be a much better team, but as long as Delaney and those other tools continue letting our young players leave to England before they even have a junior cert and depend on the granny rule to fill the gaps, we are not going to get better. Only worse.

https://twitter.com/seidodge/status/582294567346708480

Mr.H wrote: »

Even if we looked at new teams in our league structure like a county system? a draft system? a college system? surely there must be a way to produce a league that excites the fans (bringing gates) while developing young players and encouraging them to stay here until 19-20 anyway before heading to the UK?

No county system. Leave that to the gah.

Forget about trying to get Irish people passionate about our league too. It's never going to happen.

I like the idea of the FAI opening several schools around the country to keep our best players here, and then loaning/assigning them to LOI clubs to play in the underage national leagues before moving up to play in the LOI. Play in the LOI for 2-3 seasons and then move across to England if they are good enough. The LOI team then receives a cut of the transfer fee for helping develop the player.

Never going to happen with the current setup of the FAI.

LuckyLloyd

The FAI have created National U - 19 and U - 17 leagues of which only the professional league of Ireland teams will be able to compete in. This creates a conveyor belt from the elite end of the youth game into the league of Ireland senior squads. So something tangible is being done that will make a difference.

More League of Ireland players is not an answer to any problems our national side have right now imo.

In anycase, the national senior management job is not a technical / developmental position. It is about maximising the players in the current national pool from a short term results perspective. My position hasn't changed hugely since Trapp was sacked:

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

There are a couple of things people would want to define in their heads with respect to the manager they want:

- Do you want the FAI to spend similar on salary as they did for Trapp or go higher if required?
- Is your priority free flowing football, i.e. Ireland's best effort at playing passing football as part of a currently popularised tactical approach?
- Is it necessary for the manager to take on a broader development role within the Irish game - i.e. be involved with youth teams on a strategic level; work on bringing younger players into the senior fold and take a longer term approach?

If it's 'no' on the first point then the managers we can hope to attract will be managers currently plying their trade in the championship or similar or guys who have been out of the English League system for a period and aren't in super high demand currently (O' Neill may very well be the top end of this equation).

If it's 'no' on the first point but 'yes' to the second you're talking about a very limited range of names who will be lacking much in the way of experience.

If it's 'no', 'yes', 'yes' then you've probably made it impossible to find a candidate who could do the job well at all.

=====================================

Reading the forum the past few days there seem to be lots of people who don't want a manager on a high wage; but want progressive football irrespective of results; but also want that manager to engage with the wider scope of Irish football and be long term and developmental in their approach.

In short 'lol'.

I don't agree with Lennonist on his opinion of O'Neil, but I will say that his position is clear and realistic - O'Neill is available and might be able to qualify us for a campaign and eke a couple of performances in a tournament setting. Don't expect him to be broad or developmental in his approach but it's a real option.

McCarthy
Keane
Kerr
Fenlon
Jewell
Pulis

These are all the types of names we could get. All flawed options in one form or another of course, but that's the reality of things when you don't have a salary budget in the €1.5 - €2m range.

The 'names we could get' list has obviously moved on in 18 months.

Ultimately, being realistic I'd say that Mick McCarthy makes the most sense.

Mr.Nice Guy

It's time we stopped deluding ourselves.

Fergie will not be coming out of reitement to manage us. If he had the itch to get back into management he wouldn't turn towards our team. Even if he did he wouldn't be able to fix our issues which delve right to the heart of how we produce, or rather how we don't produce, players.

The brutal truth is that we have a pool of players who have big hearts but are limited technically. The ones that play in the Premier League are mostly there to do the donkey work that players from the continent are less well versed in; they're grafters, basically. There are a few exceptions but not more than you can count on one hand; and these will be either getting on in years, or players we've acquired through the granny rule, i.e. not ones we produced domestically.

The country doesn't want to acknowledge the depth of the problems so we either kid ourselves that the manager is to blame, or rather that we are overlooking some saviour who if only they were here would fix all our woes; see Andy Reid, Stephen Ireland, James McCarthy, Seamus Coleman, Wes Hoolahan, Jack Grealish etc., who have all been elevated to this deified status in recent times.

It is more comforting to believe that if only this or that manager were at the helm, or if only this or that player featured, then all would be rosy and well in the garden. But the uncomfortable truth is that the managers we pine for would be working with the same basic resources, and the players that we are longing for are not world class by any stretch. The problems would remain.

We need to tackle the problem at the source: we need to start producing players. Whether Ruud Dokter and others can achieve this we will have to wait and see, but given that the chief executive of the football association believes in throwing money at big name managerial appointments, as well as down his own pocket, doesn't leave me with a great deal of hope. Why not throw money at the best youth coaches in world football? Why not invest hugely in youth?

We need a complete overhaul of things from top to bottom and from bottom to top, but I think we will be more likely to see FIFA become a fair and reputable sporting organisation than we will see the FAI become a forward-thing and innovative domestic organisation.

There are dark days ahead for Irish soccer and you can be sure the circus will continue. Sack this fella, get in this fella, why pick so-and-so, we should have picked your man with the granny from Ennis etc.

We need to wake up but we will keep dreaming because it's easier that way.

Mr.H

thebaz wrote: »

Disagree completely - but then I would set the bar higher than Scotland

Roy Keane, Dennis irwin, Duff all played at top teams ;

McGeady is a bit team player at Everton, and most Evertonians like it that way -
Clarke is way off been a top class international - Coleman form has detiorated this year - pinning our hopes on mid-table reserves really shows a drop in standard of Irish players. Regardless who was managing the players are not good eneogh - simple as

See this is the point

Our players are rated better than the scottish yet over two games they where the better team

There is no point thinking we arent good enough and we should just accept it..........................

What teh f9ck is teh point in even playing with that attitude?

If we are not good enough we should find out why and fix it. Not just use it as an excuse

K4t

Mr.H wrote: »

Our squad or potential squad is on paper at least as good as the likes of

Croatia

Not a chance, they routinely produce technically proficient players and currently have two of the best midfielders in the world in Modric and Rakitic. They also have a a top class forward in Manzukic and excellent young midfield prospects in Hallilovic and Kovacic. They gave a Neymar inspired Brazil a very tough game in the world cup but were unlucky to draw such a difficult group. They're light years ahead of Ireland in terms of technical ability.

Tomagotchye

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

It's time we stopped deluding ourselves.

Why not throw money at the best youth coaches in world football? Why not invest hugely in youth?

We need a complete overhaul of things from top to bottom and from bottom to top, but I think we will be more likely to see FIFA become a fair and reputable sporting organisation than we will see the FAI become a forward-thing and innovative domestic organisation.

This is exactly it. Coaching in Ireland is terrible. We need top quality coaches coming into Ireland and not teaching kids...but teaching coaches, giving them fresh ideas and new direction so theeeeeey can teach the kids. Honestly, sometimes you see foreign coaching in an interview or in a magazine and it's a thousand years away from anything I would have done when I was a kid. If we don't solve the sub-par coaches then we're going nowhere. It'll pay for itself too because it'll be once off, when the coaches know their stuff you can cut loose the expensive foreign lads.

When I was in school I knew my dream of being a real footballer was over at 16-20 and I let my fitness fall into the sorry state it is now. Never even thought of League of Ireland as an option. I imagine it's the same for a lot of decent players out there (not that I'm decent, I'm useless but dreaming is 80% of what makes people go the distance).

Paully D

Throw enough money at managers at international level and they will come. O'Neill and Keane are on €2m combined FFS. An extra €1m per annum (pennies, relatively) gets you into the top 30 managers in world football financial range and it's in no way an unrealistic salary to be expecting to pay. You start being able to attract next level at that salary range. Hitzfield went to Switzerland on €3m per for example.

As Lloyd correctly says, no manager at international level is going to be all that bothered about developing talent (if at all) and why should they be? Their job, unless managing a contender is to get the country they are managing through a qualifying campaign and to a major tournament. They essentially work in and focus on 2 year cycles (Euros, World Cup, Euros, World Cup, Euros, World Cup etc, etc, etc).

My 1st choice would be the same as it was last time, though his stock has fallen since and we'd probably be able to get him for a little cheaper - Bert van Marwijk. I think that's suitably realistic if showing a bit of ambition without going overboard. If we're going for ultra realistic - Sam Allardyce would get enough out of the squad to at least make us competitive in a qualifying campaign.

Banjaxed82

thebaz wrote: »

spot on - poorest Irish team I can remember - has been for 10 years or so -

How many are playing never mind starring for big teams (like the old days).

Despite what Eamon thinks Wes Houlahan sometimes struggles to get on the Norwich first team - hardly Zinedane Zidane or Perlo class

I think some people are talking out there hole now when it comes to the standard of Irish players/

Just do a quick google search for the Icelandic team and you'll see their players are not exactly ripping up the premier leagues of Europe, and mother of moses, where are they in their group???

Google that one too and you'll see their top.. ahead of Czech Republic, Turkey & Netherlands.

This is not a player issue. This is a systemic failure of management and ethos.

rob316

The England A team is poor so the B team, is naturally going to be worse.

KungPao

The future is dark, no doubt. Get ready for years of finishing 4th/5th in groups - basically being a Montenegro or a Georgia i.e not a whipping boy, more of a potential banana skin for the big boys.

That said, the group of players we have now are better than what we have got from them for the last good few years. It must be remembered though that we have gotten rotten draws for our groups which really does not help.

The players we have now may be our last real chance for qualification for a while.

djPSB

Looks like Trap wasn't doing a bad job after all.

Banjaxed82

KungPao wrote: »

The future is dark, no doubt. Get ready for years of finishing 4th/5th in groups - basically being a Montenegro or a Georgia i.e not a whipping boy, more of a potential banana skin for the big boys.

That said, the group of players we have now are better than what we have got from them for the last good few years. It must be remembered though that we have gotten rotten draws for our groups which really does not help.

The players we have now may be our last real chance for qualification for a while.

Stop playing the victim. Typical Irish.

This is the draw Iceland got: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Euro_2016_qualifying_Group_A

They're doing alright for themselves.

rob316

A winning proven manager was hounded out for a laughable manager in o Neill. Roy Keane has no business in the Irish set up too another failure of a manager.

Paully D

djPSB wrote: »

Looks like Trap wasn't doing a bad job after all.

I still don't think some people realise just how good a job Trapattoni did here.

2 full qualifying campaigns with only 2 defeats (1 to France in the World Cup playoff and 1 to Russia in the 2012 Euro campaign) in groups containing Italy and Russia. It was actually fantastic, even though the 2014 campaign went tits up and despite the job he had done overall I did feel it was the right time to part ways. Yet you get comments on here this evening then saying that the first half against Scotland was better than anything Trapattoni served up, it's maddening.

I said at the time that it'd take our next manager after Trapattoni to really appreciate what he did with us and now that he has gone and we are suffering through O'Neill it just puts into further significance how well he actually did.

eagle eye

rob316 wrote: »

A winning proven manager was hounded out for a laughable manager in o Neill. Roy Keane has no business in the Irish set up too another failure of a manager.

Big news for you! Keane is not the manager of the Irish football team, he is the assistant manager which is a totally different job.

djPSB

djPSB wrote: »

Looks like Trap wasn't doing a bad job after all.

The joker at the helm now isn't fit to be mentioned in the same breath as Trap and should never have been given the job.

Himself and Keane were a mistake from day one

KungPao

Banjaxed82 wrote: »

Stop playing the victim. Typical Irish.

This is the draw Iceland got: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Euro_2016_qualifying_Group_A

They're doing alright for themselves.

Well first of all, I said that we should be doing better than we have been. I'm not 'blaming' our malaise on group draws, but it hasn't helped. Having Germany again and again has pretty much instantly removed 6 points from our final tally.

Second, well done Iceland, great stuff.

Third, it could be said that the Czechs are a team on the wane, not as strong as years gone by. And the Dutch are in a transition of sorts.

And fourth, we have the World champions, and a seriously solid and powerful Poland*, and an impressive Scotland on the up - while we are going backwards.

*some people are delusional to think we are on a par with the Poles...they are streets ahead of us.

rob316

eagle eye wrote: »

Big news for you! Keane is not the manager of the Irish football team, he is the assistant manager which is a totally different job.

Re read my post I never said he was the manager.

rob316

The decline of the Irish national team is down to the decline of the English national team.
Our players are plucked up by 16 and put through the same kick and rush coaching system as England. The emphasis is on speed, strength and athleticism not skill. Putting the foot in and tracking back is held in higher regard. The game has moved on and England are stuck in the stones compared to the other heavyweight European nations.

Majority of our players are English not Irish, born and raised in England. The three lions beat in there heart they don't know what is to play for Ireland. The same players that aren't good enough to play for England.

We are the England B Team no doubt. Lost our identity. Getting in a decent manager would help and getting rid of that ego maniac Keane.

djPSB

Paully D wrote: »

I still don't think some people realise just how good a job Trapattoni did here.

2 full qualifying campaigns with only 2 defeats (1 to France in the World Cup playoff and 1 to Russia in the 2012 Euro campaign) in groups containing Italy and Russia. It was actually fantastic, even though the 2014 campaign went tits up and despite the job he had done overall I did feel it was the right time to part ways. Yet you get comments on here this evening then saying that the first half against Scotland was better than anything Trapattoni served up, it's maddening.

I said at the time that it'd take our next manager after Trapattoni to really appreciate what he did with us and now that he has gone and we are suffering through O'Neill it just puts into further significance how well he actually did.

Agree.

I think the likes of Eamo Dunphy need to eat some humble pie. Him and the likes slated Trap and campaigned for a replacement.

He was replaced and we've regressed significantly.

Trap may not have been perfect but he always had us there or thereabouts when it came to qualifying from the group.

goldencrisp62

Trapattoni worked miracles with that crowd of muck. When you are depending on the likes of donkey forde and glenn wheelie bin to be stalwarts you know you are in trouble.

League here needs to be completely revamped.

Junior soccer thrives but no one gives a fuuck about LOI.

Fai junior cup is more prestigious to win than any of the professional trophies.

The problem is the Dublin teams with the sense of self righteousness with regards being the epicentre of all things underage.

If O Neill goes we will be getting someone in the calibre of allardyce or Steve Bruce, buckle down for the long haul of no qualifications. 2012 was the best we will see for a long time

CSF

edgecutter wrote: »

We keep believing that a new manager is the answer, but what is the problem of this Irish team?

I think a manager playing the best team would help. Shane Long's exclusion may not be the sole reason why we're not worldbeaters but our continual exclusion of our better players doesn't help. I'm not going to go throw names around but ideally what we need is someone who can take the few decent Premier League level players that we have, and make a functional, effective team out of them, creating the best possible sum of the parts. O'Neill has undoubtedly failed at that.

thebaz

Mr.H wrote: »

See this is the point

Our players are rated better than the scottish yet over two games they where the better team

There is no point thinking we arent good enough and we should just accept it..........................

What teh f9ck is teh point in even playing with that attitude?

If we are not good enough we should find out why and fix it. Not just use it as an excuse

not sure what your point is - the fact is the current crop of players are at best average - I grew up in era when Irish teams and players could compete with anyone - we never had strength in depth , which is understandable given size of country. The quality of the players the past 10 years has been poor, in comparison, people get deluded in thinking Houlahan, McCarthy, McGeady, Long are world class the reality is they are not - Irish teams rarely lack honesty & integrity - but the past 10 years have been barren of class.

Blue giant

I wouldn't mind seeing Mick McCarthy back in the dugout one bit. He's spent his whole career getting the best out of average to above average players. He's done a really good job at Ipswich who were unlucky not to get promoted this year. His teams normally play an okay brand of football as well.

CSF

thebaz wrote: »

not sure what your point is - the fact is the current crop of players are at best average - I grew up in era when Irish teams and players could compete with anyone - we never had strength in depth , which is understandable given size of country. The quality of the players the past 10 years has been poor, in comparison, people get deluded in thinking Houlahan, McCarthy, McGeady, Long are world class the reality is they are not - Irish teams rarely lack honesty & integrity - but the past 10 years have been barren of class.

Has anyone ever made an argument that Houlihan, McCarthy, McGeady, or Long were world class ever? Or have you just invented an argument to support some sort of narrative?

eagle eye

rob316 wrote: »

Re read my post I never said he was the manager.

Eh, yeah I read your post. You said Roy Keane has no reason being involved due to being a failure of a manager. His managerial record is irrelevant as he is an assistant manager. Goodnight and thanks.

CSF

eagle eye wrote: »

Eh, yeah I read your post. You said Roy Keane has no reason being involved due to being a failure of a manager. His managerial record is irrelevant as he is an assistant manager. Goodnight and thanks.

I don't think what you're saying is quite true. A large number of the skills required for both jobs intersect. Obviously there are skills required that do not, but still, its not a great sign.

goldencrisp62

O neill is past it lads. Has been. He should go back to celtic

Mr.H

thebaz wrote: »

not sure what your point is - the fact is the current crop of players are at best average - I grew up in era when Irish teams and players could compete with anyone - we never had strength in depth , which is understandable given size of country. The quality of the players the past 10 years has been poor, in comparison, people get deluded in thinking Houlahan, McCarthy, McGeady, Long are world class the reality is they are not - Irish teams rarely lack honesty & integrity - but the past 10 years have been barren of class.

Never said they where world class

I said that our squad plays for bigger teams than that of the likes of Scotland who outplayed us twice

How are you not getting that point. I thought it was clear?

13 of our squad played Premier league football this season. Bar Keane the rest (9 players) play in the Championship

Scotlands squad has 7 premier league players. 7 Scottish league players. 1 MLS player and 9 championship players.

So there you go in black and white. Our squad tonight has higher quality than Scotland yet struggled

The argument of not having the players is a tired EXCUSE

thebaz

CSF wrote: »

Has anyone ever made an argument that Houlihan, McCarthy, McGeady, or Long were world class ever? Or have you just invented an argument to support some sort of narrative?

so why are people debating a change of manager ?? the players are average are achieving average results - no manager will turn this group into world beaters - but stay deluded mate

Mr.H

thebaz wrote: »

so why are people debating a change of manager ?? the players are average are achieving average results - no manager will turn this group into world beaters - but stay deluded mate

So whats your answer?

Why bother to even try?

thebaz

Mr.H wrote: »

Never said they where world class



The argument of not having the players is a tired EXCUSE

i give up -
its a great irish team - goodnight.

duffman13

thebaz wrote: »

so why are people debating a change of manager ?? the players are average are achieving average results - no manager will turn this group into world beaters - but stay deluded mate

Hardly deluded, believe it or not a good manager can make a team stronger that there individual talents. Greece did it for 8 years, Jack did it with Ireland and so did Trap.

So far O'Neill has underperformed, I'd still give him another few games before I'd be looking elsewhere but I can see why people are debating change.

Mr.H

thebaz wrote: »

i give up -
its a great irish team - goodnight.

See here is the thing mate, all we ever hear from fans like yourself (not trying to disrespect) is that the quality of players is shocking.

We never hear solutions

We suggest things and all we get is "whats the point we are sh7t"

its the same crap everytime from sunshine fans

When we play well your the first to celebrate and when we lose your the first one on the lifeboats.

If you support MoN thats fair enough and respectable. But at least have an opinion more than "we are sh7t, whats the point in trying"

jamesbere

Mr.H wrote: »

Never said they where world class

I said that our squad plays for bigger teams than that of the likes of Scotland who outplayed us twice

How are you not getting that point. I thought it was clear?

13 of our squad played Premier league football this season. Bar Keane the rest (9 players) play in the Championship

Scotlands squad has 7 premier league players. 7 Scottish league players. 1 MLS player and 9 championship players.

So there you go in black and white. Our squad tonight has higher quality than Scotland yet struggled

The argument of not having the players is a tired EXCUSE

Just because we have 13 premier league players doesn't mean we are better, you have to look at the standard of football they're playing at each club and their roles and the amount of game time they get aswell.

CSF

thebaz wrote: »

so why are people debating a change of manager ?? the players are average are achieving average results - no manager will turn this group into world beaters - but stay deluded mate

Solid logic. Well reasoned.

Mr.H

jamesbere wrote: »

Just because we have 13 premier league players doesn't mean we are better, you have to look at the standard of football they're playing at each club and their roles and the amount of game time they get aswell.

Ok you can look at that. But Ive just pointed at the fact that we are taking players from a more prestigious pool than Scotland and that cant be ignored by saying "we lack the quality in players available"

You can also look at the Scottish set up and ask how many of those players would play for a top 4 team in England?

How about the Irish team?

Coleman? Maybe Mccarthy and Maceady and Grealish as squad players for a top 4 side?

Cant think of a single Scottish player I would have in a top 4 side

Hannibal

Trap got two excellent campaigns under his belt before the disaster at the Euros. Two teams in our were eventual finalists so we were f-ed from the first bell. Trap had Dunne, Duff and Keane at an age were they were still very useable. In other areas he had average players he had to rely on like St Ledger, Ward, Andrews, Doyle. Trap was one of the top managers in the game from the early 80's upto the mid 90's, we were lucky to get a manager of his calibre in. The media hounded him out.

Martin O'Neill has been found out as a manager since Aston Villa. It's hard to believe he was linked with both Liverpool and Man United prior to this. He has won 5 out of 15 with Ireland. Staunton was 6 from 17. We have players like Coleman, O'Shea, McCarthy, McGeady, Long etc easily better than most of the Scottish team yet we looked so flat and deflated.

We need to bend over backwards to get two players to play for us who did at underage levels, they are Patrick Bamford and Jack Grealish. If we've to pay them £1m signing on fee each then so be it. Callum Wilson is also eligible and should be snapped up quickly.

Alan Judge has been excellent all season for Brentford as has Tommy Hoban with Watford. Hoban will hopefully keep his place with Watford in the PL as he could easily be our long term LB and get Brady pushed forward into a natural position.

The World Cup draw is next month and at the moment we are ranked 32 in UEFA. We are in pot 4 and are giving ourselves hardwork and relying on the type of lucky draw NI got in this campaign to stand any chance of a playoff.

Mr.H

Trap was an awful manager who got us luckily to a tourny and humiliated us by not even trying. Disgraceful team set ups that man had.

He was a great manager back in teh day but his tactics where outdated the way Jackies would be if he was here now

thebaz

Mr.H wrote: »

See here is the thing mate, all we ever hear from fans like yourself (not trying to disrespect) is that the quality of players is shocking.

We never here solutions

We suggest things and all we get is "whats the point we are sh7t"

its the same crap everytime from sunshine fans

When we play well your the first to celebrate and when we lose your the first one on the lifeboats.

If you support MoN thats fair enough and respectable. But at least have an opinion more than "we are sh7t, whats the point in trying"

my point is sacking the manager is not the answer - if you bother to read what i said - instead of insulting me as some sunshine fan -

jamesbere

Mr.H wrote: »

Ok you can look at that. But Ive just pointed at the fact that we are taking players from a more prestigious pool than Scotland and that cant be ignored by saying "we lack the quality in players available"

You can also look at the Scottish set up and ask how many of those players would play for a top 4 team in England?

How about the Irish team?

Coleman? Maybe Mccarthy and Maceady and Grealish as squad players for a top 4 side?

Cant think of a single Scottish player I would have in a top 4 side

There's your problem right there, we keep trying to see where these players fit in the top 5 or 6 in the PL, we don't have these type's of player's and that's that.

We significantly lack quality in key area's mainly midfield, macarthy and whelan might do a job for there respective teams but obviously don't work together on the international stage, we need someone creative in midfield which we sadly lack.

I think defensively we are pretty solid, I taught wilson played well today and o shea will do a job for you.

The biggest concern for me is the next few campaigns, we have alot of player's pushing on and from I can see nothing coming up.

Mr.H

thebaz wrote: »

my point is sacking the manager is not the answer - if you bother to read what i said - instead of insulting me as some sunshine fan -

All you said was sacking the manager is not the answer

So what is??????

Cmon dont take it as an insult. Im not directing it at you at all. Im directing it at this type of talk that is usually coming from sunshine supporters.

There is obviously an issue with the team right now. The issue imo is the FAI and everyone who works for them for allowing it to continue.

The FAI need new blood in charge and the team needs a fresh new manager who will go in with a guaranteed 2 tournaments contract with the agenda of blooding new players for the next Euro campaign in 2020

Lets say snoogy doogy is hired to manage Ireland and brings in his own staff or even the likes of Dunne, Staunton, Aldridge and McGrath who will all be just coaches who will bring a mentality to the dressing room.

Now Snoogy Doogy is given until the summer of 2020 to get this team to teh Euros and is told that he must blood a young new team that will stand a chance at those Euros.

Straight away he has his kinda spine of a team in

Coleman, McCarthy and Grealish

He has "experienced squad players" in Long and Mceady

The rest he must test out and recruit

Along with that we need to ensure that our under age set up is of the mentality that they exist to win tourney's on their own merit. That will get them ready for the step up when needed