Episode 5x10: 'Mother's Mercy' - READERS thread

Old Perry

Double post:-\

eldest200

With the reveal of "Robert the Strong" I wonder will we get cleganebowl for next year?

Old Perry

Son0vagun wrote: »

Terrible finale to a terrible season.

It appears D&D have scarificed the TV show to save the Books. Very noble of them. It seems they've gone off on different tangents, totally opposites to the books to save spoiling the books.

There is no way Stannis is going to lose the Battle of Ice in the books.

havent read the books but have been reading book spoilers and info for the craic. i agree, glad that season is out of the way now and hope when it comes back that is better like in previous seasons. there really was a lack of atomosphere and substance in many ways this year.

about milisandrei. id assumed (because they didnt show it) that based on the info gleaned from shireens death, and also her previous meeting with
jon, that she knew that stannis was going to fail? And jon was going to get fooked by the NW and thats why she up and left thinking jons a better bet now. Could this be plausible? how far diverged from the books is the stannis and red witch story?

Old Perry

Also reek and sansa going out hsnd in hand. Holy fook. dindnt see zhat comin at all.

Washington Irving

Son0vagun wrote: »

Terrible finale to a terrible season.

It appears D&D have scarificed the TV show to save the Books. Very noble of them. It seems they've gone off on different tangents, totally opposites to the books to save spoiling the books.

There is no way Stannis is going to lose the Battle of Ice in the books.

They've confirmed several times that the TV show and books will have the same eventual ending, but how they get there will change.

It's possible Stannis comes out the winner of the Battle of Ice but dies later on. All we know now is he won't be king come the end.

Oranage2

paulbok wrote: »

I can't remember from the books but do any of the Stark children apart from Bran have the ability to warg?

Jon Snow can, I think Arya has dreams of her wolf running around leading a pack killing Lanisters, also there's a chapter about a cat of the canals, so she too can most likely warg.

Not sure about Sansa though her dog is dead.


Just finished watching the episode, a bit of a let down, some things were just too obvious, it felt like the cersai scene went on forever with a stunt double with kinda made it pointless.

FunLover18

Oranage2 wrote:

Jon Snow can, I think Arya has dreams of her wolf running around leading a pack killing Lanisters, also there's a chapter about a cat of the canals, so she too can most likely warg.

Was Cat of the canals not an alias that Arya assumed? I think I need to re-read

Peregrine

paulbok wrote: »

I can't remember from the books but do any of the Stark children apart from Bran have the ability to warg?

All of them are full wargs, including Jon. Bran is the only one aware of his ability and practising it.

Iwasfrozen

Is Strannis dead? Like actually dead?! I refuse to believe it, I point blank refuse to believe it! :mad:

Oranage2

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Is Strannis dead? Like actually dead?! I refuse to believe it, I point blank refuse to believe it! :mad:

it didn't look like a full swing back and it was a bit of a yelp by her too, I doubt he's dead.

Perhaps the red witch can bring him back to life after she brings Jon Snow back. This reminds me of book 5 & 6 and how stupid they were that nobody seemed to stay dead.

Iwasfrozen

Oranage2 wrote: »

it didn't look like a full swing back and it was a bit of a yelp by her too, I doubt he's dead.

Perhaps the red witch can bring him back to life after she brings Jon Snow back. This reminds me of book 5 & 6 and how stupid they were that nobody seemed to stay dead.

I goddam hope so, Stannis is the rightful king.

Washington Irving

Didn't like that much.

The North. Horrible to see Stannis' character botched like it has been this season. Burning Shireen seemingly on a whim, resulting in his wife's suicide, half his army deserting with all his horses, along with 20 good men infiltrating his camp undetected and burning all food and provisions doesn't exactly scream master military commander. The same man who held off a year long siege eating cats, dogs and rats. Not convinced he is dead either. How did Melisandre get to Castle Black from near Winterfell in a couple of hours? Classic Game of Thrones convienience time warp, Littlefinger and baby Sam must have shared their secrets.

Tywin Lannister wrote:

I have felt from the beginning that Stannis was a greater danger than all the others combined.

Melisandre wrote:

In truth, the young lord commander and her king had more in common than either one would ever be willing to admit. Stannis had been a younger son living in the shadow of his elder brother, just as Jon Snow, bastard-born, had always been eclipsed by his trueborn sibling, the fallen hero men had called the Young Wolf. Both men were unbelievers by nature, mistrustful, suspicious. The only gods they truly worshipped were honor and duty.

Stannis Baratheon wrote:

Half my army is made up of unbelievers. I will have no burnings. Pray harder.

Yup, great job D&D. Spot on.

Sansa unlocking doors with a corkscrew.
Brienne looking away seconds before Sansa lighting the candle.
Myranda holding a bow to Sansa at point blank.
Sansa and Theon/Reek jumping from a doubtlessly fatal height. In a world of real life physics they are 100% dead. We'll see next Arpil.


Braavos. Thought this was done quite well for the most part. The painful signposting of 'Look! This guy is really bad!' aside. The scene is the House of Black and White was a little more 'magicky' than I'd have liked and Arya going blind without explanation was yet another needless tinkering but overall I still liked it.


Meereen. Got the job done, but a sellsword giving commands was slightly jarring, not that there were many other candidates. Jorah and Daario going off alone was ridiculous, not even a handful of Unsullied as an escort.

Dany and Drogon scenes were meh. He turned into Charizard and she just played the nagging female type trope. The Dothraki looked impressive and the shot of them circling round her looked great.


Dorne. Seemed silly that someone as intelligent and all-seeing as Doran would allow Ellaria and the Sand Snakes anywhere near Myrcella. Poisoning her made no strategic sense, her death is a complete disaster for Dorne as things stand. Tyene got one last cringe line in before Bronn set sail. The scene between Jamie and Myrcella was nice, if not relatively cliche.


King's Landing. Best scene in the episode. Lena Headey/her body double's performance was very well done. Thought the walk was as long as it needed to be. One of the few major scenes that didn't feel rushed. The mob was pretty much exactly as I had imagined it. Qyburn, for his lack of scenes, steals almost every one he is involved in for me, a fantastically played character. Robert Strong was 'meh', felt they made the rotted head way too obvious, would have liked a more shrouded face beneath the helm.

The Wall. As soon as Olly walked in and mentioned Benjen I nearly quit. I could feel the hype within me drain away. Thought each brother getting a stab a piece and repeating 'For the Watch' was a bit much. At least Olly didn't say 'For my parents' or similar. Ghost's absence is going to make it far less believable if Jon is resurrected.


The more they change the weaker the show gets.


And what are we left with? Balon Greyjoy, that's right, Balon Greyjoy, won the War of the Five Kings by default.

A Neurotic

FunLover18 wrote: »

Was Cat of the canals not an alias that Arya assumed? I think I need to re-read

Yeah, but after she's blinded she sees by warging into a cat at one point.

Jelle1880

Washington Irving wrote: »

And what are we left with? Balon Greyjoy, that's right, Balon Greyjoy, won the War of the Five Kings by default.

You HAVE read it, right ?

Because he's pretty much out of the picture, which is why they haven't shown him for several seasons now.

All that needs to be said is that he's dead in order to get the Kingsmoot underway. In the books I believe his deaths gets 2 lines of text or so.

Washington Irving

Nim wrote: »

All of them are full wargs, including Jon. Bran is the only one aware of his ability and practising it.

Robb and Sana are never really mentioned or hinted at being wargs. Given the warging comes more into play later on it's undertandable given Lady, Robb and Grey Wind are dead.

Robb and Sansa were always the most Tully like children too, while the rest took more after Starks. Could be relevant.

Washington Irving

Jelle1880 wrote: »

You HAVE read it, right ?

Because he's pretty much out of the picture, which is why they haven't shown him for several seasons now.

All that needs to be said is that he's dead in order to get the Kingsmoot underway. In the books I believe his deaths gets 2 lines of text or so.

I'm talking about the show, not the books.

The fact any mention of him has been omitted means he is presumably the last of the five kings still alive in the show. It was more a tongue-in-cheek joke than anything.

RobbingBandit

The cats running by her cart a couple of episodes back was the ode to Cat of the Canals.

FunLover18

Washington Irving wrote:

Braavos. Though this was done quite well for the most part. The painful signposting of 'Look! This guy is really bad!' aside. The scene is the House of Black and White was a little more 'magicky' than I'd have liked and Arya going blind without explanation was yet another needless tinkering but overall I still liked it.

Thing I didn't get about this scene is that it starts with Arya leaving a fleshy skin mask back but the faces she's pulling of Jagar are wispy things that vanish once removed. Lack of consistency.

Daith

Washington Irving wrote: »

Robb and Sansa were always the most Tully like children too, while the rest took more after Starks. Could be relevant.

Fairly sure Bran is very Tully like too?

Paddy Cow

Savage Tyrant wrote: »

The battle scene was a let down... Dont know why they felt the need to be so vague with Stannis' death (or lack thereof)
Sansa and Theon escaping... Liked it.
Arya killing Trant... Brutal and easily the best scene of the episode.
The Cersi walk of shame was so far drawn out it was boring. Oh yay! Boobies... Sure I could have fapped twice and still had a smoke.
The Mereen scene were very confusing.... They were ok, not great.
The Dorne scenes were.... Well they were there.
The Jon Snow part was very bittersweet for me. My favourite character in books and second favourite in TV show... I was really hoping for a hint over if he is definitely dead or not.

A very up and down episode altogether but I am looking forward to Winds of Winter or Season 6... Whichever comes first... Heart says book, head says tv show.

Maybe not for book readers but I thought the Red Woman abandoning Stanis and turning up at Castle Black just before stabby stabby traitor would be a good hint that she is going to bring Jon back to life.

The show has not shown Jon's ability to warg, so that rules out the theory that he wargs into Ghost.

FunLover18

FunLover18 wrote: »

Thing I didn't get about this scene is that it starts with Arya leaving a fleshy skin mask back but the faces she's pulling of Jagar are wispy things that vanish once removed. Lack of consistency.

That whole scene in the House of Black and White was a total mind-fúck, and not the good kind which makes you go "Cool!" or has you clambering to decipher the mysteries in your mind. It was just odd.

Mr.Prodston

Say Jon and Stannis both are actually dead and not coming back in any shape or form.

Where is the story in the North actually going to go?

What is Davos going to do now? Do the Wildlings react to Jon's death, can't imagine Tormund being best pleased, nor Davos or half of the watch. What does Mel do? Does Brienne rescue Sansa and Theon and where do they go? What state is Bran going to be?

Presumably Jon and Edd et al who managed to make it back from Hardhome would have told Ser Alliser and the ungrateful sod, Olly what they saw. Which should have changed their minds about mutiny at that particular moment. Also why not just not open the gate if they were immediately going to kill him hours later?

Where do the Boltons go next? They've got nothing to do now only get set for winter.

Are Rickon and Osha with the Umbers or did they go to Skagos?

Will Littlefinger head back to the Vale/Winterfell or what's going on there?

No scene of Asha or Balon at all this year, why is he still alive? A friend who hasn't read the books wondered why he wasn't dead after Mel's leeches had offed Joff and Robb and I nearly let slip that he was. Surely the fact he hasn't died yet would have been a concern for Stannis putting all his faith in her. 2 out of 3 ain't good enough when it comes to trusting that killing your daughter is your only option.

Why not burn himself in the ultimate sacrifice so that Shireen would be Queen and the Barratheon line continued? What's greater than blood from a King's family member? An actual King.

A lot of questions there :pac:

Sam probably won't even make it to Oldtown, although there's got to be some interesting reads in those libraries.

If Jon is actually dead and gone it would actually be hilarious and pretty much scuppers everyones theories about everything. Has anyone since ADWD was released actually thought he was dead and not coming back at all?

The White Walkers seem like level headed chaps in comparison to most others

Hans Bricks

The sheer bad luck of Stannis' has been lazy and a complete disservice to the character this season. I sincerely hope GRRM has better plans for the character in WoW.

Why couldn't they have an actual re-emergence of Benjen Stark and then have the stab session after ? Since they're so fond of making changes to the books ?

Too many unexplained cliffhangers. They couldn't even confirm the definite demise of Stannis.

Dyr

Stannis: from arsekicker to windowlicker in two episodes, that's some woeful writing

I'll give the television series one thing for being consistent: by the time I got through the first third of ADWD I was sick of Martins shtick and just didn't care about overarching plot

The TV series is quite faithful to that

Washington Irving

Daith wrote: »

Fairly sure Bran is very Tully like too?

Yeah, I was wasn't too sure and westeros.org was down when I tried to check. Think you're right.

PopePalpatine

Eh, to be fair, didn't Stannis's army have a sizeable contingent of Braavosi sellswords? I think I remember Shireen being mentioned as part of his deal with the Iron Bank, maybe as security or to marry some Braavosi noble.

Peregrine

Washington Irving wrote: »

Robb and Sana are never really mentioned or hinted at being wargs. Given the warging comes more into play later on it's undertandable given Lady, Robb and Grey Wind are dead.

Robb and Sansa were always the most Tully like children too, while the rest took more after Starks. Could be relevant.

No but GRRM confirmed that all Stark children have the ability to one extent or another.

ThunbergsAreGo

Just not convinced stannis is dead, would be poor form not to show it

MrWalsh

So no Lady Stoneheart, Bronn is still alive, Trystane is unlikely to survive, looks like it'll be Littlefinger and the knights of the Vale who march on Winterfell and give the Boltons their comeuppance, one half of GET HYPE confirmed and it was indeed Brienne who ended Stannis.

I thought the High Sparrow was the perfect psychopath, calm, righteous, almost kind. And the Septa with her smug self righteous face and her ever bloody ringing bell. Great to see the look on Cerseis face when she was introduced to Ser Robert Strong though. Bit odd that Kevan Lannister would be there in Kings Landing and not using military force on the Faith Militant?

Where did the Boltons get an army that size? It must have been the deserters. And Stannis. He burned his daughter, drove his wife to suicide, send his only true friend away and was deserted both by his army and his witch before justice arrived in the form of Brienne and her Oathkeeper. What a crap outcome.

And For The Watch. I fully expected there to be a post credits scene, but no. Jon is dead. He is. But the arrival of Melisandre means his revival is imminent. I hope.

What was the significance of Dany dropping the ring?

PopePalpatine

I'd imagine that letting loose the hounds of war on the Faith Militant would provoke the common folk.

bur

MrWalsh wrote: »

What was the significance of Dany dropping the ring?

For Jorah and Daario to find.

Peregrine

MrWalsh wrote: »

What was the significance of Dany dropping the ring?

I think she felt threatened by the khalasar and dropped it so if someone comes looking for her, they'll know she was there.

It does sound far fetched. They'll have to track Drogon to the Dothraki Sea, find the charred bones, then the ring and I presume the horses would leave a lot of tracks.

Witcher

MrWalsh wrote: »

Bit odd that Kevan Lannister would be there in Kings Landing and not using military force on the Faith Militant?

He was there in the books too and says he wasn't willing to use force because Cersei brought it upon herself some level.

PopePalpatine

I'm not the only one who was reminded of The Magdalene Sisters by Cersei's imprisonment and walk of shame, am I?

csallmighty

Brienne is Azor Ahai confirmed

Peregrine

csallmighty wrote: »

Brienne is Azor Ahai confirmed

Lies.

It's Podrick.

CptMackey

PopePalpatine wrote: »

I'm not the only one who was reminded of The Magdalene Sisters by Cersei's imprisonment and walk of shame, am I?

That's what I was thinking too. Wasn't so long ago that the nuns could have been doing it.

FunLover18

Nim wrote: »

I think she felt threatened by the khalasar and dropped it so if someone comes looking for her, they'll know she was there.

It does sound far fetched. They'll have to track Drogon to the Dothraki Sea, find the charred bones, then the ring and I presume the horses would leave a lot of tracks.

How do you track something that flies?

MrWalsh

Nim wrote: »

Lies.

It's Podrick.

More lies.

It's Ramsay.

razorblunt

PopePalpatine wrote: »

I'm not the only one who was reminded of The Magdalene Sisters by Cersei's imprisonment and walk of shame, am I?

You can swap "SHAME,SHAME, SHAME" for "You're not a man of Gawd ... you're not a man of Gawd"

Peregrine

FunLover18 wrote: »

How do you track something that flies?

Hey, I said it was far fetched :pac:


The only way I can think of is going into towns and asking if anyone saw a dragon.

So, not really tracking..trailing?

zl1whqvjs75cdy

On the plus side there's not many likeable characters left so deaths in the new book won't be too upsetting. Reckon Jamie is definitely up next in the TV show, he gets more and more likeable as time goes on.

theteal

PopePalpatine wrote: »

I'm not the only one who was reminded of The Magdalene Sisters by Cersei's imprisonment and walk of shame, am I?

I couldn't help but picture the Fr. Ted Lent episode. . .

Barna77

No Lady S

Even after what he did last week, don't want to see Stannis die.
Well, we didn't.

Yeah, Cersei's walk of shame dragged on forever.

Laughed out loud when Jorah said "careful now"


Overall, disappointing season, apart from eps 8 & 9

EDIT:
Took a look at the non readers thread. The Mountain has been mentioned a couple of times. Aren't they clever?

Mr. Incognito

What a pile of tripe.

Five books of an iron willed charcter who burns his daughter and wanders around with zero military sense.

Tv show missed the point. Makes a mockery of the character.

Millisandre goes blank blank and gets a ryanair flight to the wall.

Tv show missed the point. Makes a mockery of the character.

Jon mopes in his room reading instead of manning the wall and setting up defences against the now hundreds of thousand strong zombie army

Tv show missed the point. Makes a mockery of the character.

No stone heart. No greyjoy navy, no brave companions,

The problem with cutting a lot of the books I can forgive.

Taking it in bull**** tangents that misses the core of what and who the characters just leaves a bitter bitter taste.

Arrogant tv self indulgent ****e. This one season has been a huge let down with the exception of the last fifteen minutes of episode eight but if i wanted a zombie action flick i would rent one.

eeguy

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

What a pile of tripe.

Five books of an iron willed charcter who burns his daughter and wanders around with zero military sense.

I was sure the horsemen were the mercs that abandoned Stannis.

That's why he didn't expect the pitched battle.

Generic Dreadhead

The Irish Water protesters making a cameo there towards the end of that episode

missmaw

Was half expecting this to happen to Jon Snow ( don't no why) and it killed the scene for me 😂

Dats me

Why are people asking about why she dropped the ring in the readers thread? So that they wouldn't know she was rich...
Then Drogon comes

Savage Tyrant

naughtb4 wrote: »

Just not convinced stannis is dead, would be poor form not to show it

Agreed... No way did Trant get the full brutal works off Arya, and Jon got a graphic Stabby McStabberson scene and Stannis gets a cut away?... He's alive at least for another episode or 2 anyway.