Tesla Powerwall - is this the answer we have been waiting for?

rolion

On my application for smart meter I specified 6000w production and for inverter.
There is no mention of any limits or restrictions.
I'll check with them sooner than later.
Thanks

recedite

Just googling the 18650 cells mentioned, and these are good for 300 cycles. So only one year then, if you were using them to convert night rate tariff electricity to day rate?
Also, the 300 cells alone will cost a lot more than $300, without all the soldering, inverter etc..

Ah don't pay too much attention to some googling , you won't research lithium batteries properly in a few google searches.

A good place to start would be the Tesla forums, those 18650 cells you linked to are of good knows what quality.

Tesla uses cells to their specifications and can't be compared to your average run of the mill old skool laptop LiCo cells, though laptop batteries are vastly better these days, though the budget laptops possibly not.

That claimed 300 cycles would most likely be for 100% 0-100% and 100%-0% cycles, usually batteries apart from laptops and mobiles leave a buffer top and bottom to prevent full cycles, extending life.

murphaph

Now 3 inverter manufacturers catering to the powerwall, SolarEdge, Fronius and SMA. The latter are the only ones offering an AC coupled solution as far as I can tell.

I'm keeping my powder dry for a while longer but with our SSW facing 45 degree 100m² roof with no shading I'd be leaning towards the 8kw (solar) Fronius string inverter now, having originally considered the SolarEdge as back then Fronius only went up to 3kw.

Anyway...have to get the inside of the house finished first and moved in before any PV stuff gets done.

It's been derated to a 6.4kWh battery, descending every few years.



58dB at one metre....my 12kWh battery is completely silent
...and works with all inverters on the market.

All this is not financially worth while at the current costs of electricity and with 0 grant and 0 FIT.

The greatest issue I have with the powerwall is , No1 cost. No.2 the battery is only capable of storing a fraction of all the energy the solar PV is capable of producing.

The only way, in my opinion of course, that the powerwall makes sense is for off grid applications.

Best way to store any potential energy is to spend the money on an EV, the savings on diesel/petrol vastly outweigh any money saved on any solar PV or powerwall.

2017 is rumoured to see a 200-250 Km battery in the Nissan Leaf (this is real kms) and 2018 300-350 kms , again, real kms range.

quentingargan

Afraid you still have to face the fact that cycling the Powerwall battery costs about 15c per KwHr, maybe more.

murphaph

I think the cost will come down to a point where it'll make financial sense here in Germany to install. It doesn't yet.

If smart metering and variable rate electricity (say dirt cheap on a windy night) come to pass before hand, I might never install PV. Having said that, the Fit might even hi back up in the future as solar energy is produced during daylight hours obviously so there's more demand for it than night time wind. Who knows how things will play out.

For now I'll hold off though.

It makes far less sense in Germany with the generous F.I.T, though electricity prices in General are a more expensive, as a result of the F.I.T.

When these batteries get cheap enough you could get one and charge it at night rate and use the electricity during the day, but the cost would have to fall dramatically.

murphaph

The FIT isn't generous any more and it goes down every year. It's around 9c +VAT/kWh now. Electricity costs around 29c/kWh (nett) here.

Anybody installing PV in Germany in 2016 (and since around 2012) tries to maximise their consumption of self generated power, rather than feeding it in to the grid. The grid is your back up when you can't use what you're producing. So, if the batteries come down some more and electricity from the grid gets a little bit more expensive (and it's increasing in cost much faster than the rate of inflation, see: https://d28wbuch0jlv7v.cloudfront.net/images/infografik/normal/infografik_2108_Strompreisentwicklung_in_Deutschland_n.jpg) then we are not far off it making financial sense to time shift your PV.

Unfortunately night rates are not available from our regional electricity network operator but smart metering is coming here in phases and we can reasonably expect that at some point in the medium term we'll be able to buy cheaper wind energy at night and store it, but medium term could be a decade or more IMO.

You can see the effect on prices that Tesla is having though, even with the other manufacturers, so things are going in the right direction.

So what are the costs installed does anyone know for the different Kwh battery ?

Say I pay 17 C/Kwh day and 8.4 night,

Cost of installing solar PV in Ireland is not very practical, no grant, no FIT, then you got to deal with Cowboys etc and the usual Cowboy's ripping you off.

I have not seen a solar PV installation in Ireland yet, there are some.

murphaph

If I could get night rate electricity at 9c I couldn't justify PV at all at current equipment prices, never mind a battery. I'd run my heat pump at full whack at night to charge up the floor slabs with heat and generate my DHW and run the dishwasher and washing machine etc.

murphaph

murphaph wrote: »

If I could get night rate electricity at 9c I couldn't justify PV at all at current equipment prices, never mind a battery. I'd run my heat pump at full whack at night to charge up the floor slabs with heat and generate my DHW and run the dishwasher and washing machine etc.

I use the washing machine, dryer (if possible) at night, it's a washer dryer so can take full advantage of the night rate, the immersion in warmer weather also comes on about 6-7 am and of course the big saver is the Car, I charge it up at night also.

According to the meter, as far as I remember, I use 50% or a little bit more on night rate of my total electricity @8.4 C/kwh.

The savings alone driving on Electricity beat any savings I could make from Solar PV. Unless there was a grant and FIT then perhaps the pay pack time would be much less and I'd see even further reductions in energy bills. I would love to generate my own renewable energy. Maybe someday.

rolion

Tesla Powerwall batteries now in stock!

Hi "myself",

We wanted to let you know that we have received delivery of the Tesla Powerwall batteries, offered with either a SolarEdge or an SMA Care Package. Order yours by logging in to your online account.

Ideal for coping with the electricity demand of a private household, the sleekly designed, simple to install, automated Tesla Powerwall system allows end users to maximise self-consumption of their solar power generation. The lithium ion battery inherits Tesla's proven automotive battery technology to power homes safely and economically.

The Tesla home battery system allows users to bridge the gap between peak solar and peak demand to make the most of the solar power generated on site. Wall mounted and rechargeable, it has a 92.5% round-trip DC efficiency, has 100% depth of discharge and is rated for indoor and outdoor installation.

Login to your online account for more information.

Please note: You must supply your Tesla certified installer certificate to purchase a Powerwall battery.

Best regards,

"supplier" Sales Team


The importance of the Care Package

As a responsible distributor, we have a commitment to help our customers win projects and install the highest quality systems that last. With nearly 35 years' experience in the industry we know that systems can fail and replacement kit is sometimes required. That is why we will only be selling our Tesla batteries with Care Packages that are designed to ensure the right support should a problem occur.,

Thanks to our close relationships with manufacturers, we are able to offer the Tesla Powerwall with either an SMA Care Package or a SolarEdge Care Package.

Care Packages ensure full support from one source should a problem occur with the Tesla battery or the interface. For example, if you purchase the SMA Care Package, SMA will diagnose where the problem lies in the system as a whole and provide the support required to resolve it.

Purchasing a Tesla Powerwall without a Care Package leaves a grey area as to where the problem lies, making troubleshooting the issue more difficult, more time consuming, potentially more costly and no doubt more frustrating for the end customer.

Purchase your Tesla Powerwall with associated Care Package by logging in to your online account.


Become a Tesla Powerwall certified installer

"Supplier" Ltd are hosting another Tesla Powerwall and SMA battery storage training event in "location" on September 2016. This extremely popular training event includes technical presentations from Tesla, SMA and "supplier"
Places are allocated on a first-come, first-served basis and the places are capped at two attendees per organisation. We recommend booking as early as possible to avoid disappointment.

Book your place by completing the online form.


Please note: To become an approved installer you must firstly sign an NDA, attend a training session and undergo a due diligence approval process with Tesla.

quentingargan

rolion wrote: »

We wanted to let you know that we have received delivery of the Tesla Powerwall batteries, offered with either a SolarEdge or an SMA Care Package. Order yours by logging in to your online account.

Yes - I got the same email from "supplier"

6.4KwHr Battery plus Solar Edge interface. €3811.86 plus VAT
If you can use all 6.4kwHrs for the 10 year life of the battery, thats 16.3c per kwhr plus VAT.

Not quite there yet as far as I am concerned, unless you have need for a UPS. I think there are cheaper batteries. Li-Ion is fine for cars where weight is critical. Households can use technology that weighs more and costs less...

Conba

Interesting facts and figures from a UK Powerwall owner on yesterday's episode of Fully Charged -

KCross

Sounds great in the video but what did it all cost to buy/install?
And how many years is the payback(assuming no Feed In Tariff) and will it be less than the lifetime of the batteries and how much are new batteries.

If we could see some of those facts/figures and it paid for itself in, say, <6yrs, I'd have it in a heartbeat.

aliveandkicking

This is an Australia focused blog but it has some excellent analysis of the setup and economics of the new Powerwall 2 which has two different versions an AC and a DC version.. Worth a read for anyone interested.

http://www.solarquotes.com.au/blog/powerwall-2-warranty/

Interesting how they only compare lithium ion when lead acid can be had for €0.075 per kWh (delivered & excluding scrap value) and is rated to 80% capacity not 70% diminishing.