Super E3 2015 - General Discussion Turbo Redux Edition

Sephiroth_dude

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

Legend of the Dragoon 2, an NX exclusive!

That would top fallout 4 and ff7 remake for me tbh

tok9

Retr0gamer wrote: »

It's just a phenomenon with Nintendo games. With a few exceptions they always sell through as a huge percentage of the customer base. Stuff like New Super Mario Bros on the Wii outsold most of the Call of Duty games for instance.

Do you mean Super Mario Bros on Wii sold more than COD on Wii? Surely it didn't outsell COD multiplatform.

I think it depends on the IP also. The attach rate on Wii was pretty awful if I remember right. I remember Skyward Sword only sold about 3 million copies and you'd think that would be one of nintendo's biggest franchises.

kunst nugget

tok9 wrote: »

Do you mean Super Mario Bros on Wii sold more than COD on Wii? Surely it didn't outsell COD multiplatform.

I think it depends on the IP also. The attach rate on Wii was pretty awful if I remember right. I remember Skyward Sword only sold about 3 million copies and you'd think that would be one of nintendo's biggest franchises.

As far as I can tell, the most any of the CoD games sold was Modern Warfare 3 with 26,500,000, Super Mario Bros on the Wii sold 27,990,000.

Just on Skyward Sword, you needed the Wii Motion Plus controller to be able to play so maybe that had an effect on its sales.

http://www.statisticbrain.com/call-of-duty-franchise-game-sales-statistics/

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/35076/new-super-mario-bros-wii/

Retr0gamer

tok9 wrote: »

Do you mean Super Mario Bros on Wii sold more than COD on Wii? Surely it didn't outsell COD multiplatform.

No, it outsold Call of Duty multiplatform. Nearly 30 million copies were sold according to Wikipedia. Reggie said that it would out sell CoD MW2 at the time. We all laughed, so did I. However it's a bloody fantastic platformer up there with the classics like Mario World and it. A lot of Nintendo games are slow burners in terms of sales. Most games make the majority of sales in the first month then vanish. NSMB Wii had an extended period of high sales, it's still selling now afterall. In the end it did outsell MW2 by quite a margin. Nintendo are in it for the long run and know their games hold their sales potential and value for longer which is why you don't see them being discounted unless they are a total sales disaster like Other M.

Taylor365

kunst nugget wrote: »

the most any of the CoD games sold was Modern Warfare 3 with 26,500,000,

Because MW1/MW2 were so good.

tok9

Wow, that's actually ridiculously impressive. I wish the likes of Galaxy, Metroid, Donkey Kong etc sold that much. Those are the ones I'd love more of!

Shiminay

Nintendo is, as you said Retro, a phenomenon. They exist in this weird pocket reality where a significant enough number of their fans buy enough of their first party stuff and they simply don't need to worry about the rest of the games industry. It's not the sort of thing you could plan for, but it's an interesting place to be.

I don't see them getting out of the hardware business, they're the undisputed masters of the dedicated mobile/portable gaming device and they keep their stationary/tv consoles affordable and quirky and since the inception of the first Wii, they said "we're going to be your second console and you're going to have us for fun party games and first party stuff" and it worked. That said, every single person I know who bought a Wii said it sat gathering dust after 6 months and never got a look in unless a significant first party game came out. Simply said, I think they're too good at hardware to not succeed with it at this stage I think I don't ever recall hearing of issues like the RROD or the Yellow Light affecting a Nintendo product either. Curious to see what the NX brings.

They know their target audience extremely well (having trained them to behave in certain ways) and they're not gonna risk the golden goose

Retr0gamer

Galaxy and Donkey Kong sold really well as well but NSMB Wii was a sales monster. Just the brand recognition and how it's so accessible for anyone meant it had universal appeal. There's still people out there that don't want to adjust to 3D gaming, my girlfriend for instance just can't get her head around twin stick/keyboard and mouse, so it appeals to everyone really.

kunst nugget

Taylor365 wrote: »

Because MW1/MW2 were so good.

Honestly wasn't commenting on the quality of MW3, just comparing the two sales wise.

CiDeRmAn

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

So, Nintendo to win E3 2016!
Super Mario Sunshine 2
Zelda
Metroid
FZero
Gex
Legend of the Dragoon 2, an NX exclusive!

I would elaborate on Metroid
Not the Metroid I wanted

cloud493

I have a sneaking suspicion we will get another direct in August.

Bear in mind in 2012, Nintendo unveiled both the 3DS XL and NSMB 2 only 2 weeks (I think) after an underwhelming E3.

CiDeRmAn

This is not the Metroid you are looking for...
Move along...

In fact, wasn't the Zelda we were looking for either.

All the speculation about Twilight Princess and so on, turns out there was really nothing.
Nintendo seem to have come up with almost nothing this year and I can't help but feel disappointed.

I don't have a gaming PC but the PS4 lineup looks great and I can see one or two good reasons to pick up an Xbox One by Christmas.

CiDeRmAn

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

This is not the Metroid you are looking for...
Move along...

In fact, wasn't the Zelda we were looking for either.

All the speculation about Twilight Princess and so on, turns out there was really nothing.
Nintendo seem to have come up with almost nothing this year and I can't help but feel disappointed.

I don't have a gaming PC but the PS4 lineup looks great and I can see one or two good reasons to pick up an Xbox One by Christmas.

Hard to do so when fans have been crying out for a proper Metroid game for so long

tok9

Unless the NX is out early 2017, I can see myself buying doing the same thing I did with the Wii.

Buy it in pretty much it's last year and pick up all the great games (bar Xenoblade )

CiDeRmAn

If the NX is announced for a Christmas 2016 release with a new Zelda title I'd say I'll be there on day one.
Thing is,
Might this also have a knock on effect on the 3DS, seeing as a replacement portable device might be part of an integrated home/handheld format.
I wonder, is the 3DS ready to be replaced?
Has the New 3DS range added enough to keep the format current or is it ripe for a HD update?

Xenji

Nintendo need to be careful about when they announce the NX, they have quite a few games coming out between now and Christmas that could sell a few more consoles, people might hold off buying a Wii U if they know the NX could be out next year, although if we do not see the NX next Christmas, going by how Nintendo like to release consoles these days, it will be Christmas 2017.

Retr0gamer

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

Nintendo seem to have come up with almost nothing this year and I can't help but feel disappointed.

Well what they did show may not be mind blowing but what they did show you can gaurantee will be great. They showed far more actual exclusives than Sony and MS, even if most weren't going to set the world on fire. Also as mentioned Nintendo kind of operate differently from the rest of the industry. Japan is the boss and doesn't really see E3 as a big deal. They could announce and show off a massive new game in a direct and it could be out in less than 6 months. Then again they might not.

Also a lot fo people are ignoring SMT X FE. Nintendo showed a lot of gameplay off and it looks fantastic. Some of Atlus's best talent is behind it.

Ctrl Alt Delete

petepaterson wrote: »

Something i don't think is right is the way both sony and microsoft don't see pc as a competitor and it results in the pc guys laughing all the way to the bank.

for example, ori and the blind forest was an xbox one exclusive but also on the pc.
(

Surely you can see Microsoft s plan here? The Xbox One OS is going to.be updated to Windows 10 and DX 12 also.

One singular OS for developing and porting will massively expand the Xbox librady and leave Sony standing in terms of a lot of their offerings.

The Occulus partnership is a massive sign of that also

Captain Chaos

That's it in a nutshell. MS is going to use Windows 10 to bring all it's gaming under one big umbrella, Xbox and the old games for windows concept.

They are holding out on VR after burning themselves twice with Kinect and will go with whichever VR headset brand wins out, as again that will be PC and Xbox together.

Ctrl Alt Delete

Captain Chaos wrote: »

That's it in a nutshell. MS is going to use Windows 10 to bring all it's gaming under one big umbrella, Xbox and the old games for windows concept.

They are holding out on VR after burning themselves twice with Kinect and will go with whichever VR headset brand wins out, as again that will be PC and Xbox together.

Exactly MS always did seem to have the marathon / long road approach this gen (even if they did get a bit ahead of themselves at launch)

While MS lost the console sales race the one massive advantage they have over anyone is the Windows OS. By now having mobiles, consoles and PCs running on the exact same OS (Core / Kernel wise) they have finally flexed that one big massive muscle to try close the console games gap by shutting Sony out as much as possible.

I'm 100% positive within the next 2 E3s the term Xbox exclusive will be replaced with the words Windows exclusive

petepaterson

why are people so aggressively against nintendo going third party? bethesda is worshipped with their ip's - fallout, the elder scrolls, doom, wolfenstein, hell i even read that this very website was formed because of quake.... nintendo leaving the hardware space is not the end of the world in fact it would be good for them to pull down the paywall they have in place to play their games. is it just that they dont want to pay microsoft for the licensing royalty fees of putting a game on their system? because im sure microsoft would be willing to waiver that for the opportunity to get a leg up on sony.

kunst nugget

petepaterson wrote: »

why are people so aggressively against nintendo going third party? bethesda is worshipped with their ip's - fallout, the elder scrolls, doom, wolfenstein, hell i even read that this very website was formed because of quake.... nintendo leaving the hardware space is not the end of the world in fact it would be good for them to pull down the paywall they have in place to play their games. is it just that they dont want to pay microsoft for the licensing royalty fees of putting a game on their system? because im sure microsoft would be willing to waiver that for the opportunity to get a leg up on sony.

They make a very healthy profit, have massive cash reserves and a pretty rabid fan base. Why would they possibly be tempted to give up making hardware to go third party when there is absolutely no need for them to do that.

Ctrl Alt Delete

petepaterson wrote: »

why are people so aggressively against nintendo going third party?

I'd love to know why as well. Personally I'd love to be have games available on every platform with no exclusives so we can all play games that we want to but that won't be happening anytime soon

petepaterson

kunst nugget wrote: »

They make a very healthy profit, have massive cash reserves and a pretty rabid fan base. Why would they possibly be tempted to give up making hardware to go third party when there is absolutely no need for them to do that.

?????? of course there is. nintendo are in the business of making money and they arent making a lot of money lately. now maybe im crazy but surely you would want to get your product into the hands of 100+ million people instead of limiting yourself to the wii u's 10?

RasTa

Isn't the 3DS making them millions?

RasTa

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

I'm 100% positive within the next 2 E3s the term Xbox exclusive will be replaced with the words Windows exclusive

They don't really have that many games bar Forza, Halo, Gears to say that.

tok9

Xenji wrote: »

Nintendo need to be careful about when they announce the NX, they have quite a few games coming out between now and Christmas that could sell a few more consoles, people might hold off buying a Wii U if they know the NX could be out next year, although if we do not see the NX next Christmas, going by how Nintendo like to release consoles these days, it will be Christmas 2017.

They really don't need to be careful.

No matter what game they release, it will not have a huge impact on sales especially when people already know they are planning to release a new console in the next 2 years.

FAILSAFE 00

kunst nugget wrote: »

They make a very healthy profit, have massive cash reserves and a pretty rabid fan base. Why would they possibly be tempted to give up making hardware to go third party when there is absolutely no need for them to do that.

Hardware is probably the most profitless part of gaming. It takes gigantic amounts of money to move significant amounts of units.

By removing the manufacturing and sale of hardware they reduce expenditure and increase profits by opening their games to a larger audience such as the 20.2 million PS4 owners.

Nintendo have just recently licensed their IP's to mobile devices. In my opinion when they see the benefits of this method they might consider leaving the console market.

ERG89

RasTa wrote: »

They don't really have that many games bar Forza, Halo, Gears to say that.

Crackdown, Scalebound and Quantum Break too (They are a mile better now than last gen for exclusives I know as I had a 360 ) and I wish they'd have remedy make another Alan Wake tho

As far as Fire Emblem X SMT goes Nintendo played a very colourful Japanese language trailer which went over a lot of heads on their direct

petepaterson

RasTa wrote: »

Isn't the 3DS making them millions?

short answer, no. long answer, the 3ds has not sold anything remotely like the original ds. the dedicated handheld market is dying, even in japan which has traditionally been it's largest market, as people move over to games on mobile smartphones. the market for nintendo hardware is dwindling. but they would be very successful if they removed the hardware noose from around their neck and concentrated on software for other systems and mobile.

Stone Deaf 4evr

ERG89 wrote: »

Crackdown, Scalebound and Quantum Break too (They are a mile better now than last gen for exclusives I know as I had a 360 ) and I wish they'd have remedy make another Alan Wake tho

As far as Fire Emblem X SMT goes Nintendo played a very colourful Japanese language trailer which went over a lot of heads on their direct

Dont forget fable....

oh wait, nobody gives a sh1t about fable...

RedXIV

petepaterson wrote: »

?????? of course there is. nintendo are in the business of making money and they arent making a lot of money lately. now maybe im crazy but surely you would want to get your product into the hands of 100+ million people instead of limiting yourself to the wii u's 10?

That WAS true but is no longer the case, they are moving back to profitability now. And its worth remembering that Nintendo are pioneers of innovation. Lets not kid ourselves, we can admit the Wii U hasn't been a raving success but that is just the last home console they released. Before that they had the Wii which was an incredible success. Gamecube before that was again, not fantastically recieved but prior to that, the N64 was massively popular.

So it's pretty normal in their lifecycle to move from an underwhelming console to an incredible one, so lets not revoke their hardware licence just yet!

Generic Dreadhead

Hello,

I'm the token "Can we get back to talking about E3 now" post that is scheduled.

See you all again in 10 pages time

Good day now my good sirs :pac:

petepaterson

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

Hardware is probably the most profitless part of gaming. It takes gigantic amounts of money to move significant amounts of units.

By removing the manufacturing and sale of hardware they reduce expenditure and increase profits by opening their games to a larger audience such as the 20.2 million PS4 owners.

Nintendo have just recently licensed their IP's to mobile devices. In my opinion when they see the benefits of this method they might consider leaving the console market.

+1. there is absolutely no money in console hardware anymore. microsoft had to piss away billions to even get their foot in the door initially and sony was selling playstations at an incredible loss. in fact this has been the console business model for quite some time now. sell hardware at a loss and make up the difference in licensing fees. the money in hardware is so low that is primarily the reason you dont see a google console, an amazon consoles or an apple console. theres just so little money involved.

Stone Deaf 4evr

Cormac... wrote: »

Hello,

I'm the token "Can we get back to talking about E3 now" post that is scheduled.

See you all again in 10 pages time

Good day now my good sirs :pac:

but aren't we talking about what'll be at future E3's?

i dont know what we'll do in ten years time when theres only 1 platform that plays all games. :pac:

kunst nugget

petepaterson wrote: »

+1. there is absolutely no money in console hardware anymore. microsoft had to piss away billions to even get their foot in the door initially and sony was selling playstations at an incredible loss. in fact this has been the console business model for quite some time now. sell hardware at a loss and make up the difference in licensing fees. the money in hardware is so low that is primarily the reason you dont see a google console, an amazon consoles or an apple console. theres just so little money involved.

So why don't the people running the Playstation or Xbox divisions just drop making consoles and concentrate making games for Nintendo? The combined sales of all their consoles would easily make them the bigggest hardware producer out there.

Generic Dreadhead

Stone Deaf 4evr wrote: »

i dont know what we'll do in ten years time when theres only 1 platform that plays all games. :pac:

A wild, but very subtlety camouflaged PCMR post appears! :eek:

kunst nugget

Stone Deaf 4evr wrote: »

but aren't we talking about what'll be at future E3's?

i dont know what we'll do in ten years time when theres only 1 platform that plays all games. :pac:

We'll be fighting about what is the proper finger technique when manipulating the holograms you're playing with. You'll obviously be favouring the Pacino technique…

ERG89

Stone Deaf 4evr wrote: »

Dont forget fable....

oh wait, nobody gives a sh1t about fable...

I can't quite put my finger on what went wrong with Fable III but I really enjoyed II its no Witcher but it was fun.
Fable The Journey was a misstep then the new game Legends looks a further departure still....

petepaterson

RedXIV wrote: »

That WAS true but is no longer the case, they are moving back to profitability now. And its worth remembering that Nintendo are pioneers of innovation. Lets not kid ourselves, we can admit the Wii U hasn't been a raving success but that is just the last home console they released. Before that they had the Wii which was an incredible success. Gamecube before that was again, not fantastically recieved but prior to that, the N64 was massively popular.

So it's pretty normal in their lifecycle to move from an underwhelming console to an incredible one, so lets not revoke their hardware licence just yet!

actually the n64 was not successful and neither was the gamecube. in fact with the exception of the wii each nintendo hardware has sold less than the last. the wii was a phenomenon. they got to the market first with the motion craze and rode the wave. it was of course just a gimmicky phase and even though it sold 100 millions units the games sold for it overall were terrible which means people were buying it and after a few months letting it gather dust in the bottom of a wardrobe. i would exactly say nintendo have been pioneers of innovation by choosing to remain with cartridges when sony was using CD's. in fact sony has become increasingly westernised over the last 30 years moving the emphases to america and europe while nintendo are still under a japanese cultural business philosophy of no risk. if they made games for other systems they would be very successful indeed.

Stone Deaf 4evr

Cormac... wrote: »

A wild, but very subtlety camouflaged PCMR post appears! :eek:

Nah, we'll have a star trek holodeck by then.

petepaterson

kunst nugget wrote: »

So why don't the people running the Playstation or Xbox divisions just drop making consoles and concentrate making games for Nintendo? The combined sales of all their consoles would easily make them the bigggest hardware producer out there.

playstation is the only division keeping sony afloat right now thats why theyre pouring so much energy and focus into it. the last guardian, shenmue, final fantasy 7 remake? they're literally one E3 away from handing out free money at this point. theres so much resources being poured into the playstation division right now. the playstation and xbox are more successful than nintendo so why would they drop out of the market before nintendo?

Retr0gamer

petepaterson wrote: »

why are people so aggressively against nintendo going third party?

We aren't against it just stating reasons why it would be a stupid move for Nintendo to go third party. The potential profits for a third party company are limited to software sales which take a massive cut when you factor in licensing fees. As a hardware manufacturer you don't pay a license fee, get potential steady income from third party licensees and also potentially from hardware once cost drops. Nintendo aren't stupid you know and they aren't staying in the hardware business because they are stubborn. They are a publically run company and like money as much as any other publically run company. Once you go third party you lose control and lose toones of potential profit avenues.

petepaterson wrote: »

nintendo are in the business of making money and they arent making a lot of money lately. now maybe im crazy but surely you would want to get your product into the hands of 100+ million people instead of limiting yourself to the wii u's 10?

Nintendo posted a few losses, it's not the end of the world. They've also returned to profit as well. That's a fact you can't debunk. Sony and the MS games division are in much worse financial situations. Also no game sells 100+ million. Usually you will sell 5m for a very successful product. If you factor in licensing cost then the profit you make is less than a first party game without a licensing fee.

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

By removing the manufacturing and sale of hardware they reduce expenditure and increase profits by opening their games to a larger audience such as the 20.2 million PS4 owners.

Just because the Playstation has 20 million users doesn't mean 20 million will buy your game, it will be much lower. Also the audience is much different. On Nintendo consoles Nintendo have a much higher attach rate with their own titles. It might seem strange but by keeping to their own system they are making far more sales than the vast majority of third party games. Something like Mario Kart 8 on WiiU is posting sales that most third party publishers would kill for and thats to a customer base of 8 million. Also what you lose in manufacturing costs you make back in licensing fees and gain back again once manufacturing costs drop. It's a bit of a gamble if you get to that state but thats business.

petepaterson wrote: »

in fact with the exception of the wii each nintendo hardware has sold less than the last.

That's ignoring the Wii, the DS (the second best selling console of all time) the GBA and the 3DS (not posting DS figures but hugely successful all the same and it's kind of hard to follow up what is nearly the best selling console of all time). Ignoring variables like that is what staticians call bull****.

petepaterson

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Nintendo posted a few losses, it's not the end of the world. They've also returned to profit as well. That's a fact you can't debunk. Sony and the MS games division are in much worse financial situations. Also no game sells 100+ million. Usually you will sell 5m for a very successful product. If you factor in licensing cost then the profit you make is less than a first party game without a licensing fee.

That's ignoring the Wii, the DS (the second best selling console of all time) the GBA and the 3DS (not posting DS figures but hugely successful all the same and it's kind of hard to follow up what is nearly the best selling console of all time). Ignoring variables like that is what staticians call bull****.

im not ignoring the wii at all sure i said the wii in my post. nevertheless the 3ds, the ds and gameboys are not home consoles they're handhelds but in any event even theyre on a slippery slope with the 3ds not selling as well as the ds and the ds not selling as well as the gameboys. furthermore, do you not think its a bit of a stretch to call the wii "nearly the best selling console of all time" when the PS2 outsold it by 54+ million? hardly neck and neck....

also i don't think anyone has argued that every single individual with a ps4 or an xbox one will buy a nintendo game - that much is clear. what is being argued is that theyre limiting themselves to the small number of wii u owners when they could potentially be offering their products to an audience of 100+ million when you take into consideration the ps4/xbox one/pc and mobile consumers.

cloud493

petepaterson wrote: »

im not ignoring the wii at all sure i said the wii in my post. nevertheless the 3ds, the ds and gameboys are not home consoles they're handhelds but in any event even theyre on a slippery slope with the 3ds not selling as well as the ds and the ds not selling as well as the gameboys. furthermore, do you not think its a bit of a stretch to call the wii "nearly the best selling console of all time" when the PS2 outsold it by 54+ million? hardly neck and neck....

also i don't think anyone has argued that every single individual with a ps4 or an xbox one will buy a nintendo game - that much is clear. what is being argued is that theyre limiting themselves to the small number of wii u owners when they could potentially be offering their products to an audience of 100+ million when you take into consideration the ps4/xbox one/pc and mobile consumers.

Well, you didn't say 'portable consoles and home consoles' you said 'hardware' and the DS outsold the gameboy, and is the second best selling console of all time so, get your facts right maybe.

petepaterson

cloud493 wrote: »

Well, you didn't say 'portable consoles and home consoles' you said 'hardware' and the DS outsold the gameboy, and is the second best selling console of all time so, get your facts right maybe.

the gameboys are at 120m and 81m. making the gameboys 200+million units sold. the ds is only at 150m. and if we're talking about home consoles then the PS2 and PS1 are the two top tier consoles. the majority of people wouldn't include handhelds to be "consoles" which is what im referring to.

Ctrl Alt Delete

RasTa wrote: »

They don't really have that many games bar Forza, Halo, Gears to say that.

Your looking at it completely the wrong way around.

kunst nugget

petepaterson wrote: »

the gameboys are at 120m and 81m. making the gameboys 200+million units sold. the ds is only at 150m. and if we're talking about home consoles then the PS2 and PS1 are the two top tier consoles. the majority of people wouldn't include handhelds to be "consoles" which is what im referring to.

That's three generations of Gameboy/Colour Gameboy/Gameboy. Two generations of the DS/3DS has the same combined sales.

cloud493

petepaterson wrote: »

the gameboys are at 120m and 81m. making the gameboys 200+million units sold. the ds is only at 150m. and if we're talking about home consoles then the PS2 and PS1 are the two top tier consoles. the majority of people wouldn't include handhelds to be "consoles" which is what im referring to.

You mean two separate consoles?

You wanna go down that road, 52 million 3DS have been sold, and that makes 200m+ sold as well.

Generic Dreadhead

Playstation 3 is coming out next year lads and it's gonna blow all the other consoles out of the water