Tipping Away...

Outside

Saturday 8th - 0 mi
Wedding yesterday, great night but paying for it today. Not cut out for this anymore. No running, just feeling very sorry for myself.

Sunday 9th - 18.6 mi
Q1 Plan this week: 18mi steady
Ended up: 18.6@6:59/mi

Headed out towards Dangan to do a few loops there to make up the 18mi. After 5 miles I ran into Gary and Lloyd, Gary just after winning the streets yesterday in 23:53, well done! So joined in with them as it seemed a similar pace to me. The 18 mi passes a lot faster with company so glad of it. Pace picked up towards the end so I was in or around marathon pace for the last few miles for sure. Nice progression run, started out at 7:30 and finished up in or around 6:20's. Felt good, warm so was thankful of a drop of water when I got back home.

Outside

Monday 10th - 8 mi
8@7:21/mi
Lovely run, legs tired from yesterday but still moving OK. After work run and just grabbed a quick slice of bread and peanut better and out the gap. Tired and very low energy at the start but felt great again at the end of this.

Tuesday 11th - 4 mi
4@7:59/mi
Felt slow as a wet week, I don't think I actually woke up until mile 2, early run before work. No angry stray Alsatians. 9 strides thrown on at the end. Hopefully Q2 tomorrow evening after work. I think weather looks, dare I say it...good?? Shock, horror.

Outside

Wednesday 12th - 16 mi
Q2 this week is a doozey: 2E - 12M - 2E
This many M paced runs this far out from the race seems unusual but then again who am I to be questioning Jack Daniels. Trust the plan!
So it went: 2@7:22/mi - 12@6:15/mi - 2@7:16/mi

Perfect conditions for it this evening after work so no excuses. Out the door and before I knew it was was into the 12 mile PMP session around Dangan. Again for this one I used a 4mile loop I've made out around the trails and pitches of Dangan. Relatively flat course bar one stinker of a hill half way around the loop. Its very short though.

As I mentioned before, instant pace around Dangan doesn't work too well with all the twists and turns so just kept HR in the low 170's for the 12 miles. This seems to correspond to a comfortably hard pace for me and by the end of the 12 miles I was certainly feeling it. Possibly borderline uncomfortable towards the end but I'm sure thats what the session is meant to do.

Delighted with pace for that when I stopped the watch, keeping the HR in the low 170's was fairly do-able, well for the first 8 or 9 anyway.

So officially at the half way point in the plan now, progress with M pace so far:
June 14th: 12M @ 6:45 with avgHR at 172
July 4th: 11M @ 6:38 with avgHR at 173
July 25th: 14M @ 6:23 with avgHR at 171
Aug 12th: 12 M @ 6:15 with avgHR at 173

Looks like plan is certainly doing something good. My marathon pace has come on leaps and bounds since Day 1 of the plan back on June 14th. I didn't expect that so possibly will revise goal. Sub 2:45 might actually be a realistic target with another month of solid sessions. It seems to work well to stick to low 170's for Marathon pace and then low 180's for T pace.

Really gagging for a race at this stage but schedule is fairly full for next few weekends. Contemplated driving to Clonmel for the half on Sunday but the spin would be >2hrs each way so can't justify that. The weekend after that I'm out to Connemara to Dilisk Food project for some birthday grub, the big three O. Then official 30th shindig the weekend after at home where a few of us are coming together to organise a race for charity and have a little party after: https://www.facebook.com/thesheepsheadchallenge?fref=ts
So if anyones in the area, call in! It'll be fairly low key/experimental race but all money goes to charity so everyones a winner!
Then the weekend after that I've Electric Picnic. That be an endurance event in itself.

So my next official race will be Charlaville Half marathon, I just booked on today so really looking forward to that to test out the new legs. Hopefully in Sept/Oct I can stop being so social and actually watch what I eat and drink, that should set me up nicely then for Dublin hopefully!

ThebitterLemon

Any chance you have glasses, I saw a lad tipping around Dangan yesterday at what looked like a decent pace?

Really solid progress.

TbL

Outside

Cheers TbL, nope I don't have glasses! Keep looking! Well cross paths some day for sure! Oddly enough, I think I know what you look like, I'll give you a "TbL!!" and see if you react, haven't spotted you yet in Dangan!

youngrun

Very impressive running on a trail circuit, plus the improvement of 30 seconds per mile. You have a lot of talent it seems .
You are operating at 2.43 pace which is surely worth 2.40 on a road +race scenario . You should be aiming at 2.45 I think.
A race will tell you more though have you a ten k or half planned .

Outside

youngrun wrote: »

Very impressive running on a trail circuit, plus the improvement of 30 seconds per mile. You have a lot of talent it seems .
You are operating at 2.43 pace which is surely worth 2.40 on a road +race scenario . You should be aiming at 2.45 I think.
A race will tell you more though have you a ten k or half planned .

Cheers youngrun. Ya if I had one handy for Sunday I'd do it but nothing close-by it seems bar a fun-run 5km in Kilcornan Woods. No real benefit to me. I'll tip away with what I'm doing for now, the next few weeks could be a little broken but will try keep up both sessions. My next race is Charlaville half so I'll be looking for a good time there all going well.

ThebitterLemon

O, what's your target for Charleville?

TbL

Outside

From the gospel according to JD, for a 2:45 marathon I'd want to be sub 79. That seems a pretty big ask but worth a shot for sure so in our around 78-79.

Outside

Thursday 13th - 3.9 mi
Easy 3.9@7:30/min
Legs pretty tired from yesterdays effort but no pain so alls good!
Friday 14th - 6.1 mi
6.1@7:17/mi + 8 x Hill Strides in Dangan
Saturday 15th - 0 mi
Charity 50km cycle for cancer care west in the morning and had weeks mileage covered so just rested up for tomorrow.
Sunday 16th - 19.7
19.7@6:47/mi
A little off piste from the plan here. This was meant to be Q1 this week but Gary invited me on some of his long run so decided its not everyday you get invited on a long run with a 2:17 marathoner so jumped at the chance. His plan was 3 hrs at roughly 6:55 pace so he was going to do an hour before he collected me then I'd do my 2hrs and we collected Keith on they way for his 90mins. Didn't feel great at the start, straight into 7:00/mi so took a good 30mins for legs to come round but by the time we collected Keith we ticked along nicely at 6:50/mi around Dangan chatting away. The miles flew by with a little company and by the time we dropped back Keith we were in or around 6:30 pace. To keep that pace for the last few miles I was working hard, HR was in or around 180 for the last 3 miles so really feeling it. That's pretty much T effort level but slower pace due to me pretty much running on fumes.

Ideally I don't think I should have done a session like this, possibly more harm than good but I was careful to listen to legs/feet and made sure I wasn't working hard enough to injure myself. Next few Q session will be interesting. I was happy being able to keep effort level and HR that high towards the end of the session but I was on the limit for sure without gels/water. Might have to take the next Q session a little easy to make sure I'm fully recovered, I'll play it by ear.

Outside

Monday 17th - 0 mi
Lazy and never got out before work, entertaining then after long day at work so excuses, excuses. Legs were still in bits so if I did get out, it would've been a hobble.

Tuesday 18th - 8.5 mi
8.5@7:47/mi
Easy run before work, legs still fairly un-responsive, not looking forward to tomorrows Q2 at all.

Wednesday 19th - 15.7 mi
Q2 plan this week: 5E - 4x(2T - 2min Rest) - 2E
It went: 5@7:24/mi - 2T avg paces(5:46, 5:54, 5:59, 5:59) - 2.7@7:45/mi
AvgHR for all T's was 181.

That nearly killed me. That for sure was the hardest session so far. T pace felt horrible right from the start and struggled to get HR up to 180 at all. 2nd and 3rd T felt a little better but just about managed the 4th and I was very happy to have that behind me. I'm not sure if that first T pace is correct, HR was the exact same each time so that seems a big difference in pace, the 2nd, 3rd and 4th seem more correct. Thats the first time my T pace is all below 6min/mi so thats progress I guess. It's the weekends 20miler thats really catching me this week, no one to blame but myself. If I can fit in another 16 mi for Thursday and Friday of E running, that'll finish off this week, then logistically I have to do Q1 on Saturday so that's going to be another interesting one.
Home next week for the big three-o and also giving a hand to mark out a trail run for next weekend so training might be a little broken but I could do with an easy week.

So much for the new shoes, took them off after this session and there's already a huge tear along the side of my right shoe where the upper has separated away from the sole. That's after only 120 mi. I might throw them an email and see what the story is, that can't be right. I suppose it is a racing flat.

ThebitterLemon

Well, are you still tipping away?

TbL

Outside

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

Well, are you still tipping away?

TbL

Hey TbL,

Yep still tipping away but only just, last week was eventful to say the least. In a very good way! Ended up getting engaged, turning 30 and successfully marked out the course for http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/graham-norton-lends-his-support-to-west-cork-charity-event-31479554.html therfore raising a nice bit for some local charities.
Happy days, training took a bit of a back seat obviously with all the jigs and reels, running update to follow soon!

Outside

Outside

Thursday 20th - 10.8 mi
AM: 5.36@8:09/mi run to work, legs heavy, very heavy.
PM: 5.43@7:26/mi - Legs a nice bit better than this morning, feeling good again.

Friday 21st - 8 mi
8@7:38/mi early before work, lovely morning.

Sunday 23rd - 16.49 mi
JD 8WTG Q1: 2E - 2T - 60minE - 2T - 2E
It went: 2@7:29/mi - 2@5:55/mi - 60min E@7:29 - 2@5:50/mi - 2.4@7:36/mi
A few drinks last night saw me do this around 2 in the afternoon. T pace seemed to tick along nicely, happy with pace, avgHR was 183 and 182 respectively for T runs.

Tuesday 25th - 8.1 mi
8.1@7:49/mi in Killarney national park, nice morning run around Ross Castle.

The rest of the week was a bit of a right off and ended up doing a lot of socializing, drinking and hiking with not very much sleep. I won't beat myself up about it, fantastic week.

Got back to Galway on Sunday night so next run was:

Monday 31st - 16 mi
Never got Q2 last week, 1 week ahead of schedule anyway so just picked up from where I left off.
JD 8WTG Q2: 8E - 6x(1kmI w/3min jog) - 2E
It went: 8.2@7:27/mi - 6x1km off 3min jog(3:25, 3:26, 3:24, 3:24, 3:23, 3:20) - 2.5@7:39/mi

Legs felt heavy for this since no running and all hiking since nearly a week ago. Paces seemed good for intervals but def felt sluggish. It'll be good to get back into it. Well for a few days anyway, Electric Picnic this weekend should see anther blip in the training but I've Q2 done and will do next weeks Q1 Thursday evening and Q2 then again when I'm right after the picnic.
After that, things get serious, proper diet, no drinking and (touch wood) I'll be in good shape for Dublin.

AuldManKing

Outside wrote: »

Ended up getting engaged,

this can be taken as;
(a) You were surprised by this.
(b) Father in Law had a shotgun
(c) You've been procrastinating on this for far too long.
(d) You were drunk.

Outside

AuldManKing wrote: »

this can be taken as;
(a) You were surprised by this.
(b) Father in Law had a shotgun
(c) You've been procrastinating on this for far too long.
(d) You were drunk.

Hah, all of the above?! That does make it sound like it was unplanned but I had it planned up until the actual Q, from there on it's out of my control really! She said yes anyway so all's good!

It's not actually part of the JD plan I'm following so I'm not sure what his theories would be on this affecting a marathon, maybe in the next revision he'll have a chapter such events! In the meantime, I'll be finding out myself soon!

Outside

Tuesday 1st - 8.2 mi
8.2@7:42/mi - Calves are shouting at me since yesterdays session, this run helped loosen them out for sure.

Outside

Wednesday 2nd - 9 mi
3.9@7:23/mi - 7 x 18'' Hill Strides - 5.1@7:24/mi

Thursday 3rd - 20.2 mi
JD 7WTG Q1 - Steady E 20 mi or <150mins.
It went: 20.2@7:12/mi
That was some war of attrition. Legs were heavy from the very start but knew I had to get this done either today or never, I wouldn't have time at the weekend (Electric Picnic) and doing this Q1 next week would be too late if I'm to fit in the Q sessions next week along with staying ahead of schedule by 1 day so I can give myself an extra days rest for Charleville the week after. Ran out towards Dangan and brought water and 3 gels and just started into the 4 loops of 4mi each. Took 2 gels, first at about 10 mi then the next at 14 and didn't bother with the 3rd. Stomach wasn't great on the final loop and had to make a pits stop. Very happy to have this over with, I knew it'd be a slog-fest. Hardly any mileage last week and right back up to nearly peak this week, I'm playing with fire for sure. Legs and feet seem OK, touch wood. Just heavy, very heavy.

Friday 4th - 5.2 mi
5.2@7:50/mi
Runmute to work, this is always way slower than I expect, I was sure i was about 30''/mi faster than 7:50 but no joy. Legs actually not as bad as I thought they'd be from yesterdays effort.

That's it for the week, off to the Picnic later today so 2 days of no running but lots of festival antics so the jog I've planned for Monday should be interesting! Hopefully Q2 then on Tuesday, Q1 the following Sat then Q2 on Tuesday/Wednesday evening, then its the Charleville Half!

I regret now not booking on to Athlone flatline too, I've Q1 that weekend with MP miles so this would be very handy. Alas i missed the deadline, I did email the organizers a few days ago but no reply, i'm sure their inundated with clowns like myself who missed the deadline. Ah well, around the pitches in Dangan again for my sins.

ThebitterLemon

Nice going Outside.

Where do you run in Dangan to get a 4 mile loop done as I'm sick of running around pitches?

TbL

Outside

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

Nice going Outside.

Where do you run in Dangan to get a 4 mile loop done as I'm sick of running around pitches?

TbL

Thanks TbL,

Here's the 20mi: https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/886938656

So around the perimeter of Dangan and then out towards NUIG, back along by the river bank all the way back to Dangan.

Works out well if you want to stash bottle of water and a few gels somewhere so you have them and toilets at Dangan every 4 miles.

Outside

Saturday and Sunday: The Electric Picnic! Lots of time on feet and a fair bit of dancing, any benefit of that was easily offset with the alcohol consumed. Great weekend though, head down now until Dublin.

Monday 7th - 8.7 mi
8.7@7:40/mi - Didn't feel great for this one but totally expected. Got back from the picnic last night late enough. The other half couldn't get work off so I said I might as well work too. Got out for a run after work, nice evening for it. A lot of sweating done and feet felt like I had done a long run on Sunday. Wearing hiking boots all weekend seemed to do them no good. Loosened out during the run and felt better at the end. Tomorrow's going to be interesting...

Tuesday 8th - 15.8 mi
JD 7WTG Q2 - 2E - 8M - 2x(2T - 2min recovery) - 2E
It went: 2@7:13 - 8@6:30/mi - 2@6:17/mi - 2@6:19/mi- 1.8@7:35/mi (didn't have the energy to get the full 2)
MP avgHR: 174
T avgHR: 185 and 184
I actually felt worse at work today than yesterday so was not one bit looking forward to facing into a JD classic. Plenty of MP miles with T sessions thrown in for the laugh at the end. No laughing done.

Out towards Dangan to get the 2E done then straight into the 8MP miles, 2 loops, easy. Felt pretty comfortable running with HR at 170-175 BPM but pace was way off to my last MP session, about 15 sec/mi slower this evening. By the time I hit the T sessions I was slowing even more, nearly 6:20's for the T runs is >20sec/mi slower than I'd expect and slower than my goal MP?! Oh dear, it's runs like these make me question the 2:45 goal at all. I'll have to see how things go in the next few sessions, they'll tell a lot. 12MP miles penciled in for Saturday morning, then another Q session next week, then Charleville. Easy for a few days now thank god. Getting the HR up that easily isn't a great sign, something not quite right about body and headache today, could it be the start of the dreaded man-flu?? Oh dear.

Enduro

Hi Outside,

just had a quick read back of your log. Firstly, congratulations!

Secondly, just from racing against you and knowing my own past marathon times I'd guess you're capable of sub 2:40. So I think aiming for 2:45 at Dublin is good.

Finally, if you're having issues with needing pit stops in your morning runs, why not do them on empty. Sounds like you're developing a gel and water dependency if you need them for such short sessions.

Outside

Enduro wrote: »

Hi Outside,

just had a quick read back of your log. Firstly, congratulations!

Secondly, just from racing against you and knowing my own past marathon times I'd guess you're capable of sub 2:40. So I think aiming for 2:45 at Dublin is good.

Finally, if you're having issues with needing pit stops in your morning runs, why not do them on empty. Sounds like you're developing a gel and water dependency if you need them for such short sessions.

Hey Enduro,

Firstly, thanks very much for reading!

At the moment I don't think I'm in 2:40 shape but in the future, here's hoping! 2:45 will be a stretch going by the last few sessions but the next couple of weeks will tell a lot.

My stomach is actually a lot better recently, granted I haven't done many very early run's in a while, I have a bowl of porridge before any hard morning session and that seems to suit fine. I actually cut out an apple day day and this has helped a lot! So much for an apple a day! i think the fructose doesn't suit me in particular. If I'm just doing an easy run in the morning I don't bother with breakfast just because I'll have it later at work anyway.

I'm not sure I'd manage one of the harder MP, T session without food. Possibly I would if I tried getting used to it but then again on race day I'll be having breakfast for sure and I'll need some sort of sustenance (in addition to water) during the race so I'd better practice that soon. I've only done 1 session so far where I've taken a gel, or any water for that matter so for the next few "long runs" (I know my audience here), I'll try get used to gels and water to simulate race day.

I know I may be opening a can of worms here but do you think it'd be possible to "race" the marathon with no breakfast and no sustenance (except water) during the marathon?

Enduro

Outside wrote: »

My stomach is actually a lot better recently, granted I haven't done many very early run's in a while, I have a bowl of porridge before any hard morning session and that seems to suit fine. I actually cut out an apple day day and this has helped a lot! So much for an apple a day! i think the fructose doesn't suit me in particular. If I'm just doing an easy run in the morning I don't bother with breakfast just because I'll have it later at work anyway.

I'm not sure I'd manage one of the harder MP, T session without food. Possibly I would if I tried getting used to it but then again on race day I'll be having breakfast for sure and I'll need some sort of sustenance (in addition to water) during the race so I'd better practice that soon. I've only done 1 session so far where I've taken a gel, or any water for that matter so for the next few "long runs" (I know my audience here), I'll try get used to gels and water to simulate race day.

I know I may be opening a can of worms here but do you think it'd be possible to "race" the marathon with no breakfast and no sustenance (except water) during the marathon?

Can of worms is right

On the harder MP T session, presumably that will be less than 2 hours in lenght. If that's the case you should have enough Glycogen in your system to cover that without needing to top it up. And that's assuming no fat burn at all. I'd guess your need there is genuine, but more psychological than physical. I'd say you could overcome that easily enough if you wanted to.

Yeah, I do think its possible to race a marathon without sustenance (even without water, actually!), but, with the major "but", that it depends on your race pace and training. A well fat-adapted runner can race a 2:40 marathon on fat burn (and therefore will not need to rely on their glycogen stores). Faster than that and it seems much less likely. I posted this video recently on another thread which covers some of the latest thinking around this area.

In our last 50km race in Donadea where we were close enough in finishing times, I ate nothing during that race, and drank almost nothing as well (And you'll probably remember I had a nice bit of zip left for the end )

So definitely more than possible. And it is a very easy way to circumvent issues with digestion during races. It takes time to make it all work effectively though, so in your case you're probably right to validate your current marathon nutrition plan by practicing your fueling during trainng. It's something to think about in the longer term though. Loosing as many external dependcies as you can during a race is always good!

Outside

Tim Noakes talks a lot of sense, very interesting lecture, thanks for sharing.

Yes in the JD plan, the long runs are between 2 and 2.5 hours usually. He reckons going >2.5hrs is only detrimental to the rest of the weeks work. I'm not sure you'd agree with this! But it's a failry high intensity long run so I'd only be asking for injury going any faster in these I'm sure.

I'm also from the less is more/minimalist thinking and more out of sheer logistics and comfort I tend not to bring anything on these long run's, eg: https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/867218388 was done without any water or gels but I did have breakfast. Very low on energy by the end of this but but some great adaptions taking place to encourage efficiency. I actually think the real benefit of running in a depleted state is an improved running economy and efficiency. The body is very good at learning to make do with what it's got! Tricky to balance depleting and a good work out though so it's a fine line.

Possibly the breakfast is more mental than physical but at this stage, I don't have time to find out, I'll be having breakfast before the marathon for sure!

In future I'd love to be able to shoot for a <2:40 goal so I'd probably need to practice energy intake for that anyway. But when i'm not peaking at marathon training, my long runs will be back to no water or gels for sure out of sheer laziness.

I've resided now to take gels during DCM so will have to get used to this. I don't think I'll have time to "fully fat adapt". Out of interest, how long do you think this "full fat adaption" to be able to run a 2:40 marathon? Just a normal marathon training cycle of approx 18 weeks?

PS. Very well done in Belfast! Some day i'll be there for sure, looking forward to it.

Outside

Wednesday 9th - 10.7 mi
Run-muting so...
am: 5.3@7:59/mi
pm: 5.4@7:56/mi
Legs fairly banjaxed this morning so pace nice and easy. Still not feeling the mae west. Busy week at work too.

Thursday 10th - 7.1 mi
3@7:13/mi - 7x hill strides (18'') - 3.4@7:19/mi
Felt OK for these, legs still heavy

Friday 11th - 4 mi
4@6:58/mi
Thats some rain. Got out for a quick 4 miles in preparation for tomorrows Q1. Legs felt good but not looking forward to tomorrow, body not 100%.

Saturday 12th - 16.9 mi
Plan was: JD 6WTG Q1: 3E - 12M - 2E
It went: 3.1@7:21 - 12@6:29 - 1.7@7:59
avgHR for M pace was 176.

A month a go I did 12 M pace miles at 6:15 with avgHR at 173! Somethings not right so better watch myself. Also to really kick me when I'm low, my lower left calf /upper achilles is a little sore after that. Hmmm, I hope I'll run that off.

No way I'd manage 2:45 at the moment so I'll have to re-assess in the coming weeks. Don't have high hopes for Charleville next weekend but if I can break 80 I'll be happy with that.

youngrun

Might be the cumulative effect of training and miles hitting your pace ? Was this done on road or trails - the latter will always be 10-15 seconds per mile slower
Wouldnt worry too much , the half marathon will give a good indication, looks like you are in 78 ish shape to me.

Outside

Hey Youngrun,

Ya it was around the trails of Dangan again but a lot of that is very run-able on the loop I do, going out towards NUIG along the river. It was the same course as the 12MP miles a month a go.

Not too worried yet about it, I'm sure its just the hectic few weeks I've had. In my head for some reason, MP was 6:14 but I'm just after realizing that's JD's VDOT 60 which is for a 2:43 marathon. Forgot my goal race pace is actually 6:17 so that helps a little for the 2:45 goal!

Ya I'll see how this weeks Q2 goes but I'll probably go out with 79 mins in mind for Charleville and try hold that. I won't be tapering properly for this so not expecting a true PB, marathon is the goal.

Outside

Sunday 13th - 0 mi
Rest

Monday - 14th - 8.6 mi
am: 4.5@7:58/mi + 10x 18'' Strides
pm: 4.1 @8:01/mi
Took these nice and easy, legs felt a little heavy again but felt better than any day last week.

Tuesday 15th - 17 mi
Plan: JD 6WTG Q2: 40minE - 4x(2E - 2min recovery) - 2x(1T - 1min recovery) - 1E
It went: 40mins@7:51/mi - 4x2T(@6:01, 5:59, 6:03, 6:04) - 2x1T(@5:56, 5:47) - 1.5@7:08

T pace looking a lot better again since last week, started out sluggish enough but felt better as the session went on and was able to finish strong so thing looking up again, phew!

I did this a little early in the week so it'll give me a few days of E running now for Charleville Half on Sunday. Finally, I get to do a race! Long overdue.

youngrun

Outside wrote: »

Sunday 13th - 0 mi
Rest

Monday - 14th - 8.6 mi
am: 4.5@7:58/mi + 10x 18'' Strides
pm: 4.1 @8:01/mi
Took these nice and easy, legs felt a little heavy again but felt better than any day last week.

Tuesday 15th - 17 mi
Plan: JD 6WTG Q2: 40minE - 4x(2E - 2min recovery) - 2x(1T - 1min recovery) - 1E
It went: 40mins@7:51/mi - 4x2T(@6:01, 5:59, 6:03, 6:04) - 2x1T(@5:56, 5:47) - 1.5@7:08

T pace looking a lot better again since last week, started out sluggish enough but felt better as the session went on and was able to finish strong so thing looking up again, phew!

I did this a little early in the week so it'll give me a few days of E running now for Charleville Half on Sunday. Finally, I get to do a race! Long overdue.

Hard to understand the lingo in the plan ?!!
Is that 4*2T 4 * 2 miles tempo ie 6.01*2 ?

Either way very good running especially if on trails . 78 min Sunday on that course is well achievable. Usually a good field for the half there with depth

Outside

Hah, I'll be writing in shorthand before I know it, sorry ya, those are paces not times for 2mi!
https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/899727920
I avoided most twisty trails by running out and back toward college on trails so pretty flat and fast. No wind either so conditions were ideal.
I think I'll go out at 79min pace and see what happens. That session was 10 miles at Threshold pace though, which JD defines T pace as pretty much 10 mile race pace so that was pretty much a 10mi race effort broken up with rest recoverys. Which is why I gave myself a few extra days of E running now to try recover.
Must keep the marathon the main focus and not get too caught up on Half PB.

Outside

Enduro wrote: »

Can of worms is right

On the harder MP T session, presumably that will be less than 2 hours in lenght. If that's the case you should have enough Glycogen in your system to cover that without needing to top it up. And that's assuming no fat burn at all. I'd guess your need there is genuine, but more psychological than physical. I'd say you could overcome that easily enough if you wanted to.

Yeah, I do think its possible to race a marathon without sustenance (even without water, actually!), but, with the major "but", that it depends on your race pace and training. A well fat-adapted runner can race a 2:40 marathon on fat burn (and therefore will not need to rely on their glycogen stores). Faster than that and it seems much less likely. I posted this video recently on another thread which covers some of the latest thinking around this area.

In our last 50km race in Donadea where we were close enough in finishing times, I ate nothing during that race, and drank almost nothing as well (And you'll probably remember I had a nice bit of zip left for the end )

So definitely more than possible. And it is a very easy way to circumvent issues with digestion during races. It takes time to make it all work effectively though, so in your case you're probably right to validate your current marathon nutrition plan by practicing your fueling during trainng. It's something to think about in the longer term though. Loosing as many external dependcies as you can during a race is always good!

Little did I know when your were posting this you were probably doing last minute packing for the Tor Des Geant! Well done, the end sounds hell-ish. Top 30 spot is serious going in that race. I'll be looking forward to the report!

Outside

Wednesday 16th - 4.6 mi
4.6@7:32/mi
Got out in the evening after work. Legs fairly tired and stiff today so good to give them a bit of a shake out.

Thursday 17th - 8.6 mi
3.8@7:09/mi - 10x hill strides - 4.8@7:02/mi
Legs good today, hill strides felt comfortable concentrating on quick turnover and using arms. Such a nice evening for a run, love these around Dangan. So quite and peaceful by the river.

Friday 18th - 4 mi
4@8:26/mi
Yesterdays E pace probably a little hot so reigned it in big time this morning. Nice run in the early dark before the city comes alive.

Possibly another easy 4 mi tomorrow before Charleville on Sunday? Yay or Nay I wonder? Hmmm...

ThebitterLemon

You're in great shape for a super run.

All the best

TbL

youngrun

Outside wrote: »

Wednesday 16th - 4.6 mi
4.6@7:32/mi
Got out in the evening after work. Legs fairly tired and stiff today so good to give them a bit of a shake out.

Thursday 17th - 8.6 mi
3.8@7:09/mi - 10x hill strides - 4.8@7:02/mi
Legs good today, hill strides felt comfortable concentrating on quick turnover and using arms. Such a nice evening for a run, love these around Dangan. So quite and peaceful by the river.

Friday 18th - 4 mi
4@8:26/mi
Yesterdays E pace probably a little hot so reigned it in big time this morning. Nice run in the early dark before the city comes alive.

Possibly another easy 4 mi tomorrow before Charleville on Sunday? Yay or Nay I wonder? Hmmm...

Short run no harm plus a few strides to get the heart racing !

Outside

First proper shot at a race in a long while so to say I was nervous was an understatement! Hopped in the car at 6:45 from Galway and to my surprise we were there nice and early for 8:15 so got my number and just hung around trying not to think about the race too much. 6 min/miles, 6 min/miles, 6 min/miles, 6 min/miles, 6 min/miles, 6 min/miles....

So anyway, the first mile ticked by, clicked the lap button and up popped 5:35...oh no, what have I done. So talked myself into calming down and getting back on track quick. I slowed up and was overtaken by a fair few runners in the next mile, what a clown. At mile 2, up popped 6:03, phew. Back on track. Glanced at HR and it was hovering around 182, perfect.

The next few miles ticked by:
3|5:59
4|6:05
5|6:03
At this stage I was hoping to get to 6 miles and feel comfortable. I couldn't really say it was. Stomach wasn't too great and thinking back on yesterdays diet I can remember exactly why. Full fry for breakfast, cheese for lunch then a load of homemade pizza for dinner around 8:30 pm. What was I thinking. I completely ignored the fact there's no way that'd be out of the system by now. Just plain forgot how important diet is the day before a race of this effort.
6|6:01
Going through Killmallock the support was excellent and instantly eased my acrobatic stomach. Or at least I forgot about it for a while anyway. Went passed a runner here in a yellow top I think. As soon as we turned left out of Killmallock, the wind hit us dead on but thankfully course was pretty sheltered and soon eased off up the road a little.
7|5:50 - Nice downhill section here. On my own, could see runners way up ahead and could hear no one behind. I was in no mans land.
8|6:00
9|6:05
10|6:17 - Nearly planned marathon pace!! Got to 10 miles in 59:59. Not feeling the best but to be expected at this stage. I was hoping I could pick it up here a little to try bring back splits to 6min/mi's.
11|6:12 - No good, stomach getting gradually worse so just concentrated on keeping arms moving and breathing.
12|6:11 - Actually ended up gaining on a runner here, Clonmel guy so concentrated on putting head down and try to pass him.
13|6:12 - With about 1km to go, I eased past the Clonmel runner and felt strong, I knew he was in trouble. Then something strange happened. I've never had this before. No sooner as I went past, I felt a very powerful urge to throw up. "Gawked" a few times and slowed up fairly quick. Urge eased and kept running, on the home straight at this stage with a few hundred meters to go with people lining the streets.
0.1|0:37 - Turned down left towards the finishing gantry and fair play to the Clonmel runner, he overtook me in the last 100m. I was well and truly cooked at this stage so had nothing to respond with. Spotted the clock ticking past 79mins with a slight disappointment. Plan was always to head out for 79min pace but deep down it would've been nice to break 79.

Finished up with 1:19:11 chip.

Ended up heading straight to portaloos. The relief! Not comfortable at all. Went for a warm down but by that stage I was freezing and still didn't feel too good so just headed in for a cup of tea and waited for other GCH buddy.

Well done to the Charleville Half organisers, what an event. Seamless! I'll start spreading the word around Galway, only the two of us from GCH.

Performance-wise, I can't complain really. My own fault for messing up diet the previous day. Legs felt pretty good throughout, just seemed to be mainly the stomach holding me back towards the end. A PB by >1min. Plan seems to be going OK for Dublin so far. I reckon 2:45 could be a little optimistic. We'll see how the next few weeks go and marathon pace at the Galway Bay Half will tell a lot too.
https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/904420361

youngrun

Great running well done, sets you up well for Dublin. Dont forget to enter !! How long will you go before it miles wise

Outside

youngrun wrote: »

Great running well done, sets you up well for Dublin. Dont forget to enter !! How long will you go before it miles wise

Cheers yr,

Plan has 20 miles as the longest run so just going to trust the plan and see how it goes.

Outside

Monday 21st - 10.8 mi
am: 5.4@7:43/mi
pm: 5.4@7:31/mi
Legs pretty sluggish this morning and quads pretty shot. Made it to work eventually.
Run home was a little better, recovery is going OK.

Tuesday 22nd - 10.7 mi
am:5.3@7:12/mi
pm: 2.7@7:29/mi +10 x strides (13'') + 2.7@7:10/mi
Morning run a little better this morning and able to pick up the pace towards the end.
Coming home from work stopped off in Renmore pitches for some grass strides. Difficulty in getting the legs to move quick again but loosened out by the end. Felt a lot better then on the rest of the run home. No major issues since Sunday, great!

youngrun

Good mileage since the half. Do you plan 70 miles a week for next month or so under this plan. You mention another race in Galway is that on the plan too.

Outside

youngrun wrote: »

Good mileage since the half. Do you plan 70 miles a week for next month or so under this plan. You mention another race in Galway is that on the plan too.

Not too concerned about total mileage, it's more of a by-product of getting the two sessions done and what feels good in between for recovery. I've been hovering around 60 mpw for a while now and the JD plan has last week as my peak mileage so I don't see myself increasing mileage over the next few weeks.

Running to work is handy, gets the mileage in and it's time I'd be commuting by other means anyway (bike) so might as well spend it recovery running not worrying about pace. Too much of this go and I tend to get a little stale so throwing in the strides helps.

I'll do Galway Bay half. 3 weeks out from Dublin so I'm not going to chance racing it. Too close. Going to do a few miles warm up, race pace 6:17's (1:22:30) for the half hopefully comfortably, then a few miles warm down. Should be a good session to do 3 weeks out.

Outside

Wednesday 23rd - 4.6 mi
4.6@7:56/mi
Soda bread run: Throw bread in the oven, wash up, go for my usual loop, back home, take bread out of oven, shower, enjoy fresh brown bread with real butter, job.

Thursday 24th - 16.2 mi
JD 5WTG Q2: 8E - 5x(1km - 3min jog) - 6x(200m R - 200m jog recovery) - 2E

It went: 8@7:13 - 5x1km repeats(3:29, 3:23, 3:25, 3:24, 3:22) - 6x200m repeats(36'', 37'', 36'', 36'', 35'', 35'') - 2.4@7:27/mi

Targets for VDOT 59:
1km I: 3:25
R: 37''

Happy with how that went, first 1km was way off and legs were slow to pick up the pace initially but one I had the first one out of the way I managed to find a nice rhythm. Well goosed by the end of the repeats and the 2 mi jog home was fairly laboured but delighted to have that behind me, last weeks sessions still in the legs for sure. I'll take it fairly handy for a few days. Next session will be Sunday morning hopefully, before Berlin Marathon, 20 mi Easy pace. Looking forward to watching Berlin, great Irish crew heading out. Come on Garry Thornton, fellow GCH club mate.

Outside

Friday 25th - 0 mi
Planned on doing 4 mi E after work but didn't get around to it and enjoyed the rest instead.

Saturday 26th - 6.8 mi
6.8@7:34/mi - Nice easy run after a foggy head this morning, 3 beers last night and felt unusually shook this morning. Bad pint?! Friend home from travels so some catching up done over a few beers. Bit of a head-cold after settling in nicely too but nothing too serious.

Sunday 27th - 20.2 mi
JD 4WTG Q1: 20E
It went: 20.2@7:19/mi - https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/911078309
Good solid long run on a hilly course with the final 13 mi with a GCH club mate. Great morning for it so headed out on a few quite back-roads for a change of scenery. Legs felt great throughout. Got this done nice and early to arrive back home at 9 am to get the final hour of the Berlin Marathon. Some great performances by the Irish and our own G Thornton had a tough final few km to come in at 2:17:19, serious running. Can't fathom that pace for that long, unreal.

Outside

Monday 28th - 11 mi
am: 5.4@7:37/mi
pm: 5.6@7:39/mi

Tuesday 29th - 4 mi
4@7:59/mi
Early morning run, really enjoy these when weather this nice.

Wednesday 30th - 15.1 mi
JD 4WTG Q2: 6E - 5x(1km - 3minE) - 4E
It went: 6.2@7:11/mi - 5x1km(3:25, 3:21, 3:22, 3:23, 3:20) - 4.2@7:13/mi
Easing back slightly on the mileage this week and all the better for it, session felt very comfortable and was able to push the pace a little on the 1km's. The 3min Easy running in between makes recovery slightly trickier but session flew. Next up is Galway Bay Half marathon on Saturday morning and I'll use this to run 13.1 mi at MP with a few miles warm-up/cool-down. Weather's looking good so hopefully everything goes to plan!

youngrun

Outside wrote: »

Monday 28th - 11 mi
am: 5.4@7:37/mi
pm: 5.6@7:39/mi

Tuesday 29th - 4 mi
4@7:59/mi
Early morning run, really enjoy these when weather this nice.

Wednesday 30th - 15.1 mi
JD 4WTG Q2: 6E - 5x(1km - 3minE) - 4E
It went: 6.2@7:11/mi - 5x1km(3:25, 3:21, 3:22, 3:23, 3:20) - 4.2@7:13/mi
Easing back slightly on the mileage this week and all the better for it, session felt very comfortable and was able to push the pace a little on the 1km's. The 3min Easy running in between makes recovery slightly trickier but session flew. Next up is Galway Bay Half marathon on Saturday morning and I'll use this to run 13.1 mi at MP with a few miles warm-up/cool-down. Weather's looking good so hopefully everything goes to plan!

Good running did you run all this on road or track with reps
What's marathon pace have you decided ?!

Outside

youngrun wrote: »

Good running did you run all this on road or track with reps
What's marathon pace have you decided ?!

https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/914810865
On Dangan Track after work so handy for pacing. MP will be 6:17/mi ideally, this will hopefully feel easy-ish on Saturday. We'll soon see!

martyboy48

You didn't get to run the galway bay half I see. Hope it's nothing serious

Outside

Thursday - 4.5 mi
4.5@7:41/mi

Friday - 0 mi
Rest

Saturday - 17 mi
Plan called for: JD 3WTG Q1: 2E - 6M - 1E - 6M - 2E
The Galway Bay Half marathon taking place on my doorstep was a no brainer for this. No interest in racing it as I gave Charleville my best shot a few weeks a go so with 3 weeks to go to Dublin, I don't want to do anything silly. Stick to the plan!

So ended up :2@7:17/mi - 13.1@6:14/mi - 1.9@7:26/mi

Went out a little fast but it wasn't long before I hit a comfortable stride with HR in low 170's. Ended up meeting a Trim AC runner called Sean who happened to be shooting for Dublin marathon and for a 1:22 half today as well so perfect, ended up chatting away for most of the first half. With the height of chatting we ended up slacking off on pace a little around the 5 - 8mi marks so as soon as we realised this we upped the pace a little and with a couple of miles we were back on 1:22 pace by 11miles. We decided we might aswel finish at this pace now so the last couple of miles were a little faster, great to be able to pick up the pace at this stage. Finished in 1:21:46 so I'll take that. Between that and 2 mi warm-up, 2 mi warm-down, it was a great training sessions so that should stand for me for Dublin.
avgHR ended up to be 175 so ideally I'd like to keep it at that for the marathon but I won't be letting it dictate my pace too much towards end of Dublin, I'm sure I'll be in the red at that stage and HR won't make too much sense any more.

Sunday - 12 mi
12@7:33/mi
Legs a little stiff and heavy today so decided on a nice slow 90mins. Legs gradually came around and felt comfortable after 60mins. Didn't force the pace in any way so happy to end up with 7:33's.

Good weekend under the belt. Dublin 22 days and counting...

Outside

martyboy48 wrote: »

You didn't get to run the galway bay half I see. Hope it's nothing serious

I have to use my real name for these races, John C bib 953! I was down there alright but with the 2mi warm-up, race, then 2-mi cool down afterwards I didn't get to meet any of ye, some day we will cross paths, some day!

martyboy48

Outside wrote: »

I have to use my real name for these races, John C bib 953! I was down there alright but with the 2mi warm-up, race, then 2-mi cool down afterwards I didn't get to meet any of ye, some day we will cross paths, some day!

I had your name alright, but after looking twice I didn't spot it with my bad eyesight ffs