Final Fantasy VII Remaster/Remake

BloodBath

Wow. How long was Midgar in the original? 5 hours tops? Expanded to 50 hours now if it's the size of a full FF game.

So we're talking 50 hour game to 500 hours at that rate.

Maybe they are expanding a bit too much. How are they going to fill this time out?

Really expanding on the avalanche, shinra and Airith storylines I guess.

I was hoping 2-3 episodes at the most but at that rate it could be many more.

Varik

BloodBath wrote: »

Wow. How long was Midgar in the original? 5 hours tops? Expanded to 50 hours now if it's the size of a full FF game.

So we're talking 50 hour game to 500 hours at that rate.

Maybe they are expanding a bit too much. How are they going to fill this time out?

Really expanding on the avalanche, shinra and Airith storylines I guess.

I was hoping 2-3 episodes at the most but at that rate it could be many more.

Cannon got built up, we've 2 crisis games, dirge, a short, and the movie. While the obviously won't cover everything, they've additional materials to work with or forebode to.

nix

I very much doubt it will be 50 hours long tbh, i predict 20hrs tops..

Sonics2k

BloodBath wrote: »

Wow. How long was Midgar in the original? 5 hours tops? Expanded to 50 hours now if it's the size of a full FF game.

So we're talking 50 hour game to 500 hours at that rate.

Maybe they are expanding a bit too much. How are they going to fill this time out?

Really expanding on the avalanche, shinra and Airith storylines I guess.

I was hoping 2-3 episodes at the most but at that rate it could be many more.

I'm hoping for 2-3 episodes too, though of course it would have been far better to have just one big game.

Anyway, I remember reading absolutely years ago that a lot of content and story was cut from Midgar and the initial release, quite a bit of it around Jesse, Wedge and Biggs as well as 7th Heaven.

It looks like Square Enix are pushing to include that and more in the remake.

Kiith

They'll expand it by making each floor of the Shinra tower a dungeon with a boss at the end.

Level 30 - Facilities Manager
...
...
Level 51 - HR Director
...
...
Level 70 - Rufus

NoviGlitzko

How are they going to expand the story with this? Might feel like a lot of nothing happening at times.

Why don't Square just hire a bunch more developers and get the game out? The demand is obviously there but they seem to want a smaller team while taking years to push anything for release.

one armed dwarf

I sort of don't really buy that FFVII is so ginormous you could only remake it as a huge, multipart saga. That's why we call it an adaptation and why the LOTR movies don't have Tom Bombadil, you make decisions on what parts are essential and what parts aren't really in service to the overall experience.

I'd like to think it should be entirely possible to represent Midgar as a vertical slice run through and not whatever big thing they have planned, then cut out a bunch of locations like Fort Condor, Mythril Caves, Midgar Zolom swamp, Gold Saucer, Wutai etc etc etc and still have a very faithful but pragmatic re-imagining.

The problem this episodic approach poses is it will absolutely murder the arcs for a lot of characters unless they all get re-written and their big moments re-arranged. Barret will be doomed to be a 2 dimensional stereotype without his genuinely cool backstory from the Corel segment of the game. Cloud will be the perpetual sassy punk who doesn't care about the planet. All their important moments delayed until future installments half a decade away.

That is unless they forget about the original game and just do something completely new and original, which is what they need to do in my opinion

Anima

The original game barely let the player into the other Midgar sectors. My guess is they're going to expand on that and spend more time with Biggs, Wedge, Jessie and Barret. Probably add a lot more adventure/mission style elements. Which is not going to progress the main story we know much.

I guess they're going to release this, see how well it does and decide to continue or not with development. Might never see it completed tbh. The last 1/3 of the game kind of drags and I think was rushed at the time. Unless they re-write parts of it.

The 2nd episode would start in Kalm though with that long flashback on what happened in Nibelheim. That's a shame it won't be in this episode, it basically sets up the whole Sephiroth storyline. He appears in the trailer for this episode though for some reason.

K.O.Kiki

Aerith dies.

K.O.Kiki

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Aerith dies.

A friend of mine told me that before I went near the game as I had neither PC nor playstation at the time. For whatever reason, I remembered it so it had zero effect on me. Was it a big shock?

Anima

Anima wrote: »

The end of the second e3 trailer has Sephiroth talking to Cloud directly. I hope they don't change the storyline to make it more Cloud vs Sephiroth. In the original, Sephiroth barely knows him or acknowledges him half the time. He's just another Hojo clone.

Yeah, it's his dismissive attitude towards Cloud which is his undoing.
Having him recognise Cloud as more than a failure will harm that

pixelburp

Oh I'm willing to stick my neck out and say that they are absolutely going to reframe the story, such that Cloud is a "bigger deal" than he was in the original story. That original rug pull was a great little twist - arguably more so than Aeris' fate - and changed the context of your 'hero' character, but I just know (thanks to dirge [ha!] like Advent Children) they want to fiddle with the original story.

pixelburp

pixelburp wrote: »

Oh I'm willing to stick my neck out and say that they are absolutely going to reframe the story, such that Cloud is a "bigger deal" than he was in the original story. That original rug pull was a great little twist - arguably more so than Aeris' fate - and changed the context of your 'hero' character, but I just know (thanks to dirge [ha!] like Advent Children) they want to fiddle with the original story.

And Aerith never did get to hear about Zack

Kiith

Deleted User wrote: »

A friend of mine told me that before I went near the game as I had neither PC nor playstation at the time. For whatever reason, I remembered it so it had zero effect on me. Was it a big shock?

Big enough impact on me, as i had no idea at the time. Not sure i can remember a main character dying in a game before that, or at least not one that had as big an impact on the game.

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah, it's his dismissive attitude towards Cloud which is his undoing.
Having him recognise Cloud as more than a failure will harm that

That looks like just a vision in Cloud's head, so i hopefully it stays as it should be.

Kiith

Kiith wrote: »

Big enough impact on me, as i had no idea at the time. Not sure i can remember a main character dying in a game before that, or at least not one that had as big an impact on the game.

Huge for me
Had her as the primary healer in the group (I know FF7 is not great for character variations but her limit break was totally worth it)
Also viewed her as the second primary character, Avalanche seemed to be a plot tactic to just get those two together so I never looked to Barrett or Tifa as the such.

So yeah; I had never played a game where a primary character was killed, in FMV, and in a game where Phoenix downs/cure made you believe that injury could be cured.

nix

one armed dwarf wrote: »

I'd like to think it should be entirely possible to represent Midgar as a vertical slice run through and not whatever big thing they have planned, then cut out a bunch of locations like Fort Condor, Mythril Caves, Midgar Zolom swamp, Gold Saucer, Wutai etc etc etc and still have a very faithful but pragmatic re-imagining.

All the fan boys would riot so much if you removed them, it would just turn into bad publicity overall. They will have to include all locations in some form or another at the very least, but who knows, they may very well cut some minor places out (defo not condor, gold saucer or wutai though), square are known for bad decisions :pac:

Deleted User wrote: »

A friend of mine told me that before I went near the game as I had neither PC nor playstation at the time. For whatever reason, I remembered it so it had zero effect on me. Was it a big shock?

Yeah it was hard hitting tbh, shes part of the team/party for ages, its pretty much the half way mark of the game. So i remember when tackling the next section after, it all just felt extra gloomy/depressing, running around in snow/blizzards probably didnt help

I was like 15 at the time, so im sure that impacted my view on it a lot :pac:

BIGT4464

Deleted User wrote: »

Unrelated... is the steam version of FF7 any use? I might go back and try finish it. Android version appears to be garbage.

Got it on steam a few months ago on my lesser speced laptop. Well worth a run through of the game again after all those years, 22. runs fine on laptop.

gimli2112

I'd say it's a lot earlier than the 1/2 way point but considering much of my playthroughs typically consist of raising chocobos and farming stuff my perspective is skewed.
It still gets me every time I play it. Music and how it's done are great and very sad. I'm perfectly ok with a rewrite where she survives, to hell with nostalgia.

nix

gimli2112 wrote: »

I'd say it's a lot earlier than the 1/2 way point but considering much of my playthroughs typically consist of raising chocobos and farming stuff my perspective is skewed.
It still gets me every time I play it. Music and how it's done are great and very sad. I'm perfectly ok with a rewrite where she survives, to hell with nostalgia.

Its not though, its the end of disc 1, and disc 1 feels alot longer than disc 2 (main story wise) and disc 3 is just before you go into the final dungeon, id say disc 3 had feck all on it compared to the prior discs, just the final dungeon and FMV's..

K.O.Kiki

BIGT4464 wrote: »

Got it on steam a few months ago on my lesser speced laptop. Well worth a run through of the game again after all those years, 22. runs fine on laptop.

Don't forget to install the Remako HD mod: https://captrobau.blogspot.com/

Retr0gamer

Also get the fan retranslation of ff7 if you play it on pc.

As for main characters dying in RPGS before ff7, it was done before ff7 and arguably much better.

nix

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Also get the fan retranslation of ff7 if you play it on pc.

As for main characters dying in RPGS before ff7, it was done before ff7 and arguably much better.

Yeah but **** all people played those games at the time, on these shores anyway

BIGT4464

BIGT4464 wrote: »

Got it on steam a few months ago on my lesser speced laptop. Well worth a run through of the game again after all those years, 22. runs fine on laptop.

Cheers. Got the steam version setup last night with a few mods. This is probably the third time I've started this game. The furthest part I remember getting to is getting is returning to nibelheim and there was a bunch of cloaked people walking up towards the northern part.



The most important mod I was looking for was some kind of fast forward frame skip device to speed up ... all of the game. Those battles that require zero thought (attack till dead) could be sped up. I found something that increases the animation speed of battles so its better than nothing.

johnny_ultimate

The thing about Aeries’ death was that for many it was the first remarkably cinematic death in a video game. That’s in terms of finally having the power to tell that particular moment in non-abstracted visual and musical form, unlike the sprites you got in previous games with big dramatic moments or the sound chip driven music. That plus the impact of having a major playable character taken away from you combined to make something that for many was a true watershed moment. It was cinematic, but had ‘interactive’ consequences. It’s a pretty well directed sequence as well to be fair - that music cue, the shot choices of the bouncing ball, and then the overwhelming element of being thrown straight into a massive boss fight while the music continued the emotional assault.

That isn’t to say earlier games that tell stories in an impactful way - in fact some of the best hold up better than FF7 does these days. But it was one of those defining moments that for so many people proved a single moment that communicated and hinted at what game storytelling was capable of.

martingriff

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah, it's his dismissive attitude towards Cloud which is his undoing.
Having him recognise Cloud as more than a failure will harm that

Given the background I am thinking these might be Cloud dreams or times he freaks out and might expand them further and be fragmented

nix

martingriff wrote: »

Given the background I am thinking these might be Cloud dreams or times he freaks out and might expand them further and be fragmented

I'm actually hating they are showing Sephiroth so early in the game, have his voice in Clouds head sure, but to have him visible with full blown conversations and attacking is just dumb, they're removing the mystique from the get go... In the original we didnt even get a visual on Sephiroth in game until after midgar in the kalm flashback, and prior to the top of the Shinra tower you only hear of him as a great warrior in Soldier..

lordlame

My first play through I rented the game from a video game store and I remember thinking “this is ****”

I ended up renting the game for a month ( cost me £28 I think ) and stuck to it.

The death in the game was pretty shocking - I wasn’t using a guide, wasn’t online, it was completely unexpected and I don’t think the experience has ever been replicated in a game for me since.

Retr0gamer

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

The thing about Aeries’ death was that for many it was the first remarkably cinematic death in a video game. That’s in terms of finally having the power to tell that particular moment in non-abstracted visual and musical form, unlike the sprites you got in previous games with big dramatic moments or the sound chip driven music. That plus the impact of having a major playable character taken away from you combined to make something that for many was a true watershed moment. It was cinematic, but had ‘interactive’ consequences. It’s a pretty well directed sequence as well to be fair - that music cue, the shot choices of the bouncing ball, and then the overwhelming element of being thrown straight into a massive boss fight while the music continued the emotional assault.

That isn’t to say earlier games that tell stories in an impactful way - in fact some of the best hold up better than FF7 does these days. But it was one of those defining moments that for so many people proved a single moment that communicated and hinted at what game storytelling was capable of.

In the west maybe but ff7 was following a trend at the time as it had fallen behind other games with grander artistic ambitions. Its actually comes across as quite an amateur attempt to keep up with the storytelling of the likes if tactics ogre, phantasy star 4, dragon quest 5 or illusion of gain which were contemporaries at the time. I wouldn't even call it the first cinematic one when even the likes of phantasy star 4 had gorgeous comic book panel cinematics.

But then ff7 in other ways stood out and was the template for jrpgs of the 32 bit era.

Retr0gamer

Retr0gamer wrote: »

In the west maybe but ff7 was following a trend at the time as it had fallen behind other games with grander artistic ambitions. Its actually comes across as quite an amateur attempt to keep up with the storytelling of the likes if tactics ogre, phantasy star 4, dragon quest 5 or illusion of gain which were contemporaries at the time. I wouldn't even call it the first cinematic one when even the likes of phantasy star 4 had gorgeous comic book panel cinematics.

But then ff7 in other ways stood out and was the template for jrpgs of the 32 bit era.

Yes RG but we are in the West. 99% of people, with Playstation 1, had never played a game like this. It was a niche game series on the SNES as it was.

Factor in the 3D world (sparse as it was) and the FMV sequences, and Aerith was a major shock.

And, as mentioned above, it was very well directed with no time to dwell on it as you were straight into a Genova battle. All through that battle you were sure that once you beat the Boss you would get to cure her. It made you wonder for what feels like an age if what you saw was permanent or not.

Retr0gamer

Really hoping they don't emo the game up as the original was full of charm and humour unlike everything that came out afterwards that spectacularly missed the tone of the original.

Not that bothered by the change in battle system. Ff7 had a pretty weak battle system and while turn based battle systems have yet to be bettreed by real time ones stuff like xenoblade have made turn based combat fun and tactical. And while people complain that ff13 was bad they forget that ff13-2 and 3 were excellent. Actually looking forward to the expanded midget as it was the best part of the original.