Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread Summer 2015

efb

Deleted User wrote: »

Giroud is still our only scorer this season as well.

OG and OG

DeclanRe

This thread is so depressing at the min. Be back in a few weeks

efb

This thread reminds me of a Hitchcock film

Ken Shamrock

Spanish Johnny wrote: »

It's not daft. It's the reality this season so far. if ya want to make things up that's fair enough!

Sanchez is unbelievable....no denying it. that doesn't mean he gets a free pass for bad misses that are created for him by the likes of Giroud like last night for example.

What did I make up exactly?

greendom wrote: »

Hyperbole and nonsense !

Thanks for your input?

Soups123

Spanish Johnny wrote: »

It's not daft. It's the reality this season so far. if ya want to make things up that's fair enough!

Sanchez is unbelievable....no denying it. that doesn't mean he gets a free pass for bad misses that are created for him by the likes of Giroud like last night for example.

Sanchez had no pre-season, he came back early and worked his socks off to be considered, desperation from Arsene has seen him put in too early, no other player in our team shows the desire.

He is also not our striker yet he contributes more goals to our team than the striker?

You criticised others for taking pot shots at Giroud and raise it with some aimed at Sanchez?

People dont want Giroud gone they want another option ideally better but an option, he was lackluster last night as Tayto said he almost lucked unfit

Mickeroo

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh right. I assumed you weren't being literal because in that case no team can be written off. Palace might be the only team not docked points this season and taste glory. And I still have a chance with Zooey Deschanel.

Deleted User wrote: »

I fancy our chances at the Euros next year. Can't write us off, there could be some kind of disaster that wipes out many national teams and they'll change the rules to have clubs compete instead. I'll enjoy it from my brand new recliner with built-in speakers that a shop delivers to me mistakenly but allow me to keep it because I was honest, all while eating food lovingly prepared by one of my many incredibly attractive lovers.

Heh, sorry for not pulling a meaningless percentage out of thin air.

greendom

Ken Shamrock wrote: »

What did I make up exactly?



Thanks for your input?

I'm hoping you were exaggerating to make a point because it didn't have much to do with reality.

Unless you can back it up ?

Ken Shamrock

Ken Shamrock wrote: »

Blaming Sanchez on our lack of goals Is fairly daft tho man, he creates the majority of the chances he misses where as himself and Ozil create the majority of Girouds chances of which he puts away very few. It was painful watching him In some of our games last year and pre-season.

Sanchez offers so much to this team and when he scores a goal It's only a plus, keep In mind he was also our top goalscorer last year. Giroud might as well not be on the pitch sometimes, his job as a Striker Is too score goals, he's not doing his job.

I'm not blaming Sanchez? There's multiple players that need to step up.

The funny thing is that if Ramsey's goal has been awarded, I would feel totally different about him and the team. Amazing what one poor decision can do.

Soups123

DeclanRe wrote: »

This thread is so depressing at the min. Be back in a few weeks

See thats part of the problem with this club (not aimed at you).

Too many put there head in the hole when its not going well and want to pop back up when we hit our usual purple patch.

No other top club would still have Arsene in charge because fans would have turned full over by now.

Thats not saying he should be sacked, for me it should have happened already when his contract was up

Spanish Johnny

Soups123 wrote: »

Sanchez had no pre-season, he came back yearly and worked his socks off to be considered, desperation from Arsene has seen him put in too early, no other player in our team shows the desire.

He is also not our striker yet he contributes more goals to our team than the striker?

You criticised others for taking pot shots at Giroud and raise it with some aimed at Sanchez?

People dont want Giroud gone they want another option ideally better but an option, he was lackluster last night as Tayto said he almost lucked unfit

I don't disagree with anything you say. in fact I think I covered all of those. I'm saying the same standards should apply. Sanchez in our system is typically our second most advanced player. He creates loads for himself and others. And much is created for him also. There is nothing wrong with Sanchez being our top scorer...as I pointed it out this can the case at many top teams yet we don't criticise the guy they play in the middle if he is not the top scorer.

Ken Shamrock

greendom wrote: »

I'm hoping you were exaggerating to make a point because it didn't have much to do with reality.

Unless you can back it up ?

Sanchez on the left Giroud on the right:

Goals Scored 16/14

Key passes 71/25

Chances created 79/28

Assists 8/3

Shot Accuracy 62%/50%

Attack score 1279/623

itsjaybud

I find it hard to disagree with Neville, we keep losing in the same fashion year after year after year.

I don't think Wenger will ever come to terms with the way the league is won nowadays and will continue in the same manner until his time is up, it's unfortunate but hard to see him winning the league again.

If only we had landed Suarez.........

A world class striker & DM added and how different things could have been!

L'prof

We must be doing at least something right though. most chances of any team so far this season including City who've scored 8 so far!

Ken Shamrock

L'prof wrote: »

We must be doing at least something right though. most chances of any team so far this season including City who've scored 8 so far!

Most chances, worst conversion rate, we need a finisher, Giroud and Welbeck won't do.

Bobby Baccala

Ken Shamrock wrote: »

Sanchez on the left Giroud on the right:

Goals Scored 16/14

Key passes 71/25

Chances created 79/28

Assists 8/3

Shot Accuracy 62%/50%

Attack score 1279/623

Giroud missed half the Season?

Soups123

L'prof wrote: »

We must be doing at least something right though. most chances of any team so far this season including City who've scored 8 so far!

That really tells you we need a finisher!

Alfred Borden

P4DDY2K11 wrote: »

Giroud missed half the Season?

Sanchez made 9 more appearances but it was his first year in the league also.

Spanish Johnny

Ken Shamrock wrote: »

Sanchez on the left Giroud on the right:

Goals Scored 16/14

Key passes 71/25

Chances created 79/28

Assists 8/3

Shot Accuracy 62%/50%

Attack score 1279/623

to be fair it should be noted Giroud was out for 3 months of the season.

tayto lover

The positives from last night's game for me were the performances of Cech, Coq and Gabriel and the fact that we didn't concede (miraculous).

The negatives were Chambers (should have been Debuchy and I can't understand why not?), Ramsey and Cazorla - poor passing, and Wenger not making defensive changes in the first half. I know we didn't concede but I bet nobody could foresee that after the first 15 minutes. Giroud was poor and slow but he wasn't the only one.

Anyone hear any updates on Kos and Mert?

Ken Shamrock

P4DDY2K11 wrote: »

Giroud missed half the Season?

Playing 27 of 38 games Isn't really halve a season, I can post up the averages If that's better?

Spanish Johnny

Ken Shamrock wrote: »

Most chances, worst conversion rate, we need a finisher, Giroud and Welbeck won't do.

We need to finish better. Welbeck can hardly be blamed and as pointed out clearly so far GiroudhS not been the one missing the most of these by any means this season. might not like it but that's the reality so far.

Giroud not being on the end of most of these is a question and a worry of a different sorts though.

L'prof

Ken Shamrock wrote: »

Most chances, worst conversion rate, we need a finisher, Giroud and Welbeck won't do.

Soups123 wrote: »

That really tells you we need a finisher!

I agree. We're running out of time though. I think we need more than a striker to be honest. Could do with a defensive midfielder too. If Cocquelin gets injured we're up the creek. I just don't see any signings coming!

Ken Shamrock

Spanish Johnny wrote: »

We need to finish better. Welbeck can hardly be blamed and as pointed out clearly so far GiroudhS not been the one missing the most of these by any means this season. might not like it but that's the reality so far.

Giroud not being on the end of most of these is a question and a worry of a different sorts though.

Man, I didn't blame Welbeck or Giroud? I said they won't do as our strikers, their conversation rates are poor regardless of the last 3 games.

Spanish Johnny

tayto lover wrote: »

The positives from last night's game for me were the performances of Cech, Coq and Gabriel and the fact that we didn't concede (miraculous).

The negatives were Chambers (should have been Debuchy and I can't understand why not?), Ramsey and Cazorla - poor passing, and Wenger not making defensive changes in the first half. I know we didn't concede but I bet nobody could foresee that after the first 15 minutes. Giroud was poor and slow but he wasn't the only one.

Anyone hear any updates on Kos and Mert?

surely if Debuchy started we would all be wondering why we didn't start an actual centre back though no??

really hope Kos injury clears up quick...as good as Gabriel looked we need Kos at his best.

Ken Shamrock

L'prof wrote: »

I agree. We're running out of time though. I think we need more than a striker to be honest. Could do with a defensive midfielder too. If Cocquelin gets injured we're up the creek. I just don't see any signings coming!

One of us, one of us. "us" are the negative nancy's. Or realists as I prefer It.

tayto lover

L'prof wrote: »

I agree. We're running out of time though. I think we need more than a striker to be honest. Could do with a defensive midfielder too. If Cocquelin gets injured we're up the creek. I just don't see any signings coming!

The thing about that is that even if Coq was playing poorly we'd still not buy anyone and we all know it. Can't understand Wenger's complacency at all.

Spanish Johnny

Ken Shamrock wrote: »

Man, I didn't blame Welbeck or Giroud? I said they won't do as our strikers, their conversation rates are poor regardless of the last 3 games.

I don't agree. Again if we look back at Arsenal at the end of last season when Giroud went on his scoreless streak it was against the backdrop of him scoring for 7 games in a row and general excellent form from Christmas. The main factor in this scoreless streak was not consistent poor conversion....it was successive managers from Hull on double marking Giroud. Mourinho highlighted this and followed that template. as we only play one up front he was double marked and the biggest impact on his game was in his general play as opposed to his finishing. This remains the problem and we need to adapt to it around him. I know this doesn't fit the obvious narrative we have to listen to now in all sections but look back and up see it's the case.

this is interesting....while I thought Benzema wasn't the big upgrade many did I thought he would have way more goals than Giroud playing with better players and in a weaker league outside the top 6 teams. I'm sure someone will say it's all Ronaldos fault:rolleyes:

http://metro.co.uk/2015/08/25/stats-show-arsenals-olivier-giroud-is-just-as-good-as-real-madrids-karim-benzema-5359805/

Spanish Johnny

tayto lover wrote: »

The thing about that is that even if Coq was playing poorly we'd still not buy anyone and we all know it. Can't understand Wenger's complacency at all.

Why would ya say that?? If Coq wasnt up to it he would replace him. He sees him every day In training. His form since Christmas has been brilliant. He was our best outfield player last night. There is nothing wrong with Wenger expecting Coquelin to play 40 games this season and Arteta cover him for the rest. Makes total sense to me. Arteta has been very good in his two cameos and also allows us to switch to the Ramsey/Arteta combo when Coquelin inevitably gets suspended. He will also get a knock or two. Should he get a seriously bad injury we need to get a replacement of his ilk in January.

Ken Shamrock

Spanish Johnny wrote: »

I don't agree. Again if we look back at Arsenal at the end of last season when Giroud went on his scoreless streak it was against the backdrop of him scoring for 7 games in a row and general excellent form from Christmas. The main factor in this scoreless streak was not consistent poor conversion....it was successive managers from Hull on double marking Giroud. Mourinho highlighted this and followed that template. as we only play one up front he was double marked and the biggest impact on his game was in his general play as opposed to his finishing. This remains the problem and we need to adapt to it around him. I know this doesn't fit the obvious narrative we have to listen to now in all sections but look back and up see it's the case.

this is interesting....while I thought Benzema wasn't the big upgrade many did I thought he would have way more goals than Giroud playing with better players and in a weaker league outside the top 6 teams. I'm sure someone will say it's all Ronaldos fault:rolleyes:

http://metro.co.uk/2015/08/25/stats-show-arsenals-olivier-giroud-is-just-as-good-as-real-madrids-karim-benzema-5359805/

Giroud averages 0.43 goals per game, Benzema averages 0.47, not a huge gap although I can't remember many saying there was.

Last season, Benzema left, giroud right

Game played 29/27
Goals scored 15/14
shot accuracy 53%/50%

No big gap. However,

Assist 10/3
Key passes 34/25
Chances created 44/28

It's clear Benzema Is a better player than Giroud. If that was the point you were making.

AdamD

People love to defend Giroud..

Chambers was, as many young players do, having an absolute mare of a first half. That in itself is fine, but he was unfortunately joined by Cazorla and Giroud who had outrageously bad halves which were slightly less noticeable due to their positions. Giroud offered nothing in that first half, he was losing every aerial battle and spent the entire half standing still, really pathetic stuff. And this seems to be a consistent issue, playing matches were multiple senior players just don't show up. Remember Liverpool away last season, Monaco at home? This current bunch throw out some absolute horror shows. New players could be the solution sure but something else needs to be done about player's performing below their ability.

L'prof

Ken Shamrock wrote: »

One of us, one of us. "us" are the negative nancy's. Or realists as I prefer It.

Haha, no I'm definitely not one of ye. I've read enough of your posts to know that

tayto lover

Spanish Johnny wrote: »

Why would ya say that?? If Coq wasnt up to it he would replace him. He sees him every day In training. His form since Christmas has been brilliant. He was our best outfield player last night. There is nothing wrong with Wenger expecting Coquelin to play 40 games this season and Arteta cover him for the rest. Makes total sense to me. Arteta has been very good in his two cameos and also allows us to switch to the Ramsey/Arteta combo when Coquelin inevitably gets suspended. He will also get a knock or two. Should he get a seriously bad injury we need to get a replacement of his ilk in January.

I don't believe he would replace him i.e. buy a new DM if Coq hadn't have worked out. He found Coq to be a good DM by accident imo.
He allowed us to play with just 3 CB's last season before belatedly buying Gabriel. Remember he had to use Monrael there and later Debuchy as makeshift CB's. There was uproar on here. Luckily they worked.
I think Wenger is a pure gambler and some day that luck he's been having will run out. He's often left areas of the team very bare.
By the way I have often said and believe that Flamini and Arteta are ok for some games but not for the big ones. Both are ageing and have become too slow in their defensive duties. I still get goosebumps thinking about that Chelsea game at the Bridge two years ago.

symbolic

tayto lover wrote: »

I think Wenger is a pure gambler and some day that luck he's been having will run out.

Resulting in?

tayto lover

symbolic wrote: »

Resulting in?

Us not making Top 4 and receiving a few hidings.

Spanish Johnny

Ken Shamrock wrote: »

Giroud averages 0.43 goals per game, Benzema averages 0.47, not a huge gap although I can't remember many saying there was.

Last season, Benzema left, giroud right

Game played 29/27
Goals scored 15/14
shot accuracy 53%/50%

No big gap. However,

Assist 10/3
Key passes 34/25
Chances created 44/28

It's clear Benzema Is a better player than Giroud. If that was the point you were making.

my point has always been that I don't believe Benzema to be the game changer or huge step up in class on Giroud is all and I think that bears it out. I do place Benzema a bit better but not substantially and Again yer stats seem to suggest same. that's why I wasn't too bothered with his statement yesterday.

would you like a punt on Zlatan for a couple of years. I'd have to say I wouldn't be against it.

Spanish Johnny

tayto lover wrote: »

I don't believe he would replace him i.e. buy a new DM if Coq hadn't have worked out. He found Coq to be a good DM by accident imo.
He allowed us to play with just 3 CB's last season before belatedly buying Gabriel. Remember he had to use Monrael there and later Debuchy as makeshift CB's. There was uproar on here. Luckily they worked.
I think Wenger is a pure gambler and some day that luck he's been having will run out. He's often left areas of the team very bare.
By the way I have often said and believe that Flamini and Arteta are ok for some games but not for the big ones. Both are ageing and have become too slow in their defensive duties. I still get goosebumps thinking about that Chelsea game at the Bridge two years ago.

no arguments the Coq development was lucky but I think it only ensured there was no point paying 25 million on a Carvalho or so when he has one right there. otherwise I'm sure he would have strengthened especially given Arteta's age.

Chelsea that day was all On Wenger alright and the approach. As for a gambler...as much as any manager perhaps. Reading on Wenger though gambler doesn't fit the profile overall.

JustTheOne

tayto lover wrote: »

Us not making Top 4 and receiving a few hidings.

Those hidings have happened.

tayto lover

Spanish Johnny wrote: »

no arguments the Coq development was lucky but I think it only ensured there was no point paying 25 million on a Carvalho or so when he has one right there. otherwise I'm sure he would have strengthened especially given Arteta's age.

Chelsea that day was all On Wenger alright and the approach. As for a gambler...as much as any manager perhaps. Reading on Wenger though gambler doesn't fit the profile overall.

Fair enough.

Alfred Borden

Anyone ever seen this guy play? Few links about him going around!

symbolic

tayto lover wrote: »

Us not making Top 4

Quite the lucky streak he is on

tayto lover

symbolic wrote: »

Quite the lucky streak he is on

Our spending guaranteed 4th place.
It might not this year as we're bottom of the Premiership.

Alfred Borden

https://twitter.com/danlevy1/status/636236245086113792

symbolic

tayto lover wrote: »

Our spending guaranteed 4th place.

So it was spending and not luck? Or both..

It basically wasn't Wenger anyway?

At least you know it will all be sorted when he is gone anyway, that must bring some hope

Alfred Borden

We are closer to finishing 5th than 1st imo. Shame we havent pushed on this summer, it was a great opportunity. Still time but not hopeful.

tayto lover

symbolic wrote: »

So it was spending and not luck? Or both..

It basically wasn't Wenger anyway?

At least you know it will all be sorted when he is gone anyway, that must bring some hope

No. Nobody said Wenger had nothing to do with our previous success and of course spending helps. I feel Wenger has gone a bit stale though in the last number of years i.e. more concerned with money matters than team matters but maybe that's just me.

symbolic

tayto lover wrote: »

No. Nobody said Wenger had nothing to do with our previous success and of course spending helps. I feel Wenger has gone a bit stale though in the last number of years i.e. more concerned with money matters than team matters but maybe that's just me.

Ah ya see, I thought when you said Wenger's luck will run out and he will finish outside of top 4, that you were implying he was lucky to be in top four as opposed to working hard to be in top four. So i said, he is very lucky so, as he has made top four many years. Then when you said spending guaranteed top four I thought you meant spending guaranteed top 4, not that spending helps. My mistake. As your latest reply comes across totally different to how I interpreted the first two statements.

Misunderstandings are the nature of these message boards though I find. But we must persevere.

symbolic

Alfred Borden wrote: »

https://twitter.com/danlevy1/status/636236245086113792

Will there be movement in and out of Madrid this weekend or any big club?
Was it Bale that moved the time Ozil moved?

I'm starting to lose hope.... just starting, still hopeful (possibly AKA a wally)

tayto lover

symbolic wrote: »

Ah ya see, I thought when you said Wenger's luck will run out and he will finish outside of top 4, that you were implying he was lucky to be in top four as opposed to working hard to be in top four. So i said, he is very lucky so, as he has made top four many years. Then when you said spending guaranteed top four I thought you meant spending guaranteed top 4, not that spending helps. My mistake. As your latest reply comes across totally different to how I interpreted the first two statements.

Misunderstandings are the nature of these message boards though I find. But we must persevere.

I also couldn't care less who the manager is as long as our team is giving their all on the field of play and serving the club with pride. Last night's first half was a disgrace. Maybe that's down to a lack of competition for places and the players being too comfortable.

Spanish Johnny

tayto lover wrote: »

No. Nobody said Wenger had nothing to do with our previous success and of course spending helps. I feel Wenger has gone a bit stale though in the last number of years i.e. more concerned with money matters than team matters but maybe that's just me.

I really struggle to understand this mentality....I really do. I have said many many times that Wenger is never afraid to spend money when he has it. This was borne out pre 2006 and post 2013. It's sickening to have to repeat it bla bla the stadium but that is because it's fact. for me this our second season competing at the top....as in zero financial excuses. that has been borne out.

This worn out silly mantra of 'Wenger is tight' or 'Wenger would rather buy an injured 12 year old from the French 7th division than pay for a proper player' is absolutely tiresome at this stage. it's what ha hear now from a lad down the pub that doesn't really follow football but hears it so often he repeats it when a game is on. for the record I am not at all throwing that dig at you....merely saying that the line has got such traction that it nearly has become truth. it's not the reality.

also Wenger is well entitled to the benefit of the doubt in trusting his judgement that Cavani or Higuain aren't worth 50/60 million. we have an excellent squad. He said he will only add world class. I think that's completely fair and good approach. we do not need another Welbeck/Theo. we don't need another Chambers type signing right now. this desire to spend for the sake of spending is baffling to me.

despite all the talk and all the stuff about a top DM and a top Striker....neither are the main problem from the first three games. it's mad to think it but the bottom line is that our main area that needs figuring out quickly is the midfield imbalance/chemistry. Something still not right.

Spanish Johnny

tayto lover wrote: »

I also couldn't care less who the manager is as long as our team is giving their all on the field of play and serving the club with pride. Last night's first half was a disgrace. Maybe that's down to a lack of competition for places and the players being too comfortable.

I do feel losing the two CB's before the game had to have been a hugely unsettling factor in that Chambers was very nervous and put us under severe pressure from the start. a lot of Liverpools chances came from bad basic errors that wouldn't happen with the other two. had Ramsey goal stood we could have kicked on similar to last season in what we did to them.