Realistic Economy News thread

BoatMad

realitykeeper wrote: »

The central banks are wrong. Inflation is not good it is bad. Consumers like prices to fall not rise. The only reason the central banks want the economy to have 2% inflation is because they think it will encourage more people to spend instead of save. That is not much of a plan.

Money should be backed by gold or other commodities. Nothing is backing the Euro, Dollar, Yen or Sterling.

I know " reality keeper" , and that new fangled invention, the motor car, sure that will never catch on neither. People should never travel faster then the speed of a horse

Deflationary economies are a disaster , real wages fall, business's fail and the economy collapses. But that all right , cause misses miggens just saved 2 cents on a packet of cornflakes

BoatMad

Sand wrote: »

Much cheaper for who? I'm not someone who has accounts with AIB and BOI. Why should I be penalised to bail out your mistakes?

The reality is that the burden of bailing out the AIB and BOI (and Anglo Irish and Nationwide) was not taken on by those who had made the choices that led to their failure. Nor was it borne by those who voted in the wrong government, or who had looked the other way, or who had "all partied". It certainly wasn't taken on by our European partners. It was passed onto future generations who will be paying for this mess for decades. Having learnt absolutely nothing the current generation are busy trying to re-inflate a property bubble and claim backpay in union pay deals.

So much for all the high talk about moral hazard.

The tax payer is on course to make a fine gain from the money " invested " into the main pillar banks.

Anglo and IP are write offs, that use a money printing excercise, all we will in reality pay there is the interest and most of that interest costs Mrs back via the profits and of the CDI to the state. The promissory money is essentially free ( which is the case in a fiat currency anyway )

The main use of austerity and increased taxes was to close the spending gap between the states day to day spending and its poor tax strategies pre 2008.

Bit of course listen to the punters that still cry on about ' bailouts " and tax payers bailing out banks

Rightwing

BoatMad wrote: »

The tax payer is on course to make a fine gain from the money " invested " into the main pillar banks.

Anglo and IP are write offs, that use a money printing excercise, all we will in reality pay there is the interest and most of that interest costs Mrs back via the profits and of the CDI to the state. The promissory money is essentially free ( which is the case in a fiat currency anyway )

The main use of austerity and increased taxes was to close the spending gap between the states day to day spending and its poor tax strategies pre 2008.

Bit of course listen to the punters that still cry on about ' bailouts " and tax payers bailing out banks

I wouldn't be so sure about this in AIB's case. Furthermore, one must always consider the opportunity cost lost with an investment (AIB), and over €1 bln ploughed into propping up their pension scheme.

KingBrian2

realitykeeper wrote: »

100% of Icelandic mortgages were written off from the banks perspective. I think it was upwards of 80% that was written off from the mortgage holders perspective and that was for replenishing Icelandic savings accounts (not for bailing out foreign based bond holders).

What is now abundantly clear is that Iceland were right to let their banks fail. The Irish, being slow to learn, will need more time to know this.

I have a different interpretation, we have no idea what a Iceland style bank run would have been like for us. Looking across at the disaster with Northern Rock it not unlikely we would have had that version of a bank run instead.

Too many people are looking at one instance of a bank run that still caused Iceland harm when you look at other examples throughout history including Argentina, Scotland, Russia, Greece, Portugal, Spain, Britain and the US we fared a lot better in terms of regaining control of the banks.

BoatMad

Rightwing wrote: »

I wouldn't be so sure about this in AIB's case. Furthermore, one must always consider the opportunity cost lost with an investment (AIB), and over €1 bln ploughed into propping up their pension scheme.

AIB feel they will return a net gain , so they are probably in the best place to know .

The bank capitalisation process will result in net returns. The promissory note will be rolled over for ever. In reality the bailout coat the tax payer little. The main area that cost the tax payer was closing the exchequer deficit , something that would have to have been done irrespective of bank failures

Rightwing

BoatMad wrote: »

AIB feel they will return a net gain , so they are probably in the best place to know .

The bank capitalisation process will result in net returns. The promissory note will be rolled over for ever. In reality the bailout coat the tax payer little. The main area that cost the tax payer was closing the exchequer deficit , something that would have to have been done irrespective of bank failures

AIB also felt they were very well capitalised and would withstand the crisis. So much so, they felt compelled to raise the interim dividend. Market participants knew otherwise and made a packet short selling them.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/aib-defies-downturn-by-plan-to-raise-dividends-1.925628

realitykeeper

KingBrian2 wrote: »

... we fared a lot better in terms of regaining control of the banks.

People keep saying that but the physical burden of bailing out the banks is only being postponed by the abundance of liquidity and ultra low interest rates, neither of which are sustainable.

realitykeeper

On the topic of rent controls, I read yesterday that landlords will only be allowed to up their rent every two years. That may work as a policy for the time being but what about when the policy of QE fails and hyperinflation causes prices to skyrocket? Landlords would be forced to stay on the same income for up to two years despite massive increases in the cost of living. Renting property has suddenly become extremely risky in my opinion.

sword1

Qe is meant to bring inflation, I presume you mean when it succeeds as it is failing at the moment, 2 years is not that long really, you would probably get the going rate for the first year and maybe below it after, it would give stability to the market

realitykeeper

sword1 wrote: »

Qe is meant to bring inflation, I presume you mean when it succeeds as it is failing at the moment, 2 years is not that long really, you would probably get the going rate for the first year and maybe below it after, it would give stability to the market

No. I meant what I said. Yes the intended aim of QE is to increase inflation to close to (but under) 2%. However, as long as the markets believe this, the stagnation will continue, like slow strangulation. When the markets eventually realize that the policy of stimulus remains the only thing preventing economic collapse in Europe then the true risks attached to European bonds will force interest rates to increase quickly and this will result in a massive increase in the number of euros in existence which will cause the value of the Euro to plummet i.e. hyperinflation.

That said, I think the initial spark may be with the US. Although this could happen anytime, I suspect China and Russia would prefer if it did not happen until after the completion of the trans Siberian oil pipeline to China in 2018. Once that is in place, China will promptly devalue its currency and raise its interest rates causing a stock market crash in the west. To save the stock markets, the FED and ECB will embark on an unprecedented level of QE which will cause a collapse in the value of the US dollar and the Euro. Hence hyperinflation.

China will use its self inflicted recession to accelerate the process of populating its new cities and becoming a service led economy.

andrew

realitykeeper wrote: »

force interest rates to increase quickly and this will result in a massive increase in the number of euros in existence which will cause the value of the Euro to plummet i.e. hyperinflation.

What's your working understanding of how interest rates, money etc. work, such that that would happen?

ibstar

andrew wrote: »

What's your working understanding of how interest rates, money etc. work, such that that would happen?

bit confused myself to where the poster was leading as well.

Zubeneschamali

ibstar wrote: »

bit confused myself to where the poster was leading as well.

I class the hyperinflation folks with the gold standard people who talk about fiat money as if it was new. Economics bulletins from the 1930s.

mjv2ydratu679c

andrew wrote: »

What's your working understanding of how interest rates, money etc. work, such that that would happen?

Didn't quite understand that post either myself

realitykeeper

andrew wrote: »

What's your working understanding of how interest rates, money etc. work, such that that would happen?

As long as the ECB has credibility, it can control the interest rate on newly issued currency such as its QE program. The problem for the ECB is that it will become less credible as time passes because even if the inflation increases to the target 2% in response to their QE program, the economic growth they are hoping for will not materialize.

The ECB will then either have to launch further QE, which cannot continue indefinitely without the risk of sparking hyperinflation. Or, as in the US, the ECB would have to pretend the economy is stronger than it actually is and repeat again and again that they are going to increase interest rates but without actually doing it. The purpose of this bluff is to sell the impression to the markets that the economy is stronger than it actually is in order to keep the stock market and currency propped up. If the Euro slips the ECB hint that they will increase interest rates (but without following through) and if the stock markets slip they will say that they will keep the interest rates low and perhaps hint of further QE.

Eventually, all this bluffing will be seen for what it is. When that happens, both the Euro, and the European stock markets will fall and consumer prices will rise. The risks associated with European bonds will rise and the cost of borrowing will increase for individual Eurozone countries. It is this associated risk that will ultimately force the ECB interest rates to increase rapidly in and uncontrolled manner because the only answer they will have for the collapsing stock markets will be QE on steroids. The Euro will become worthless and hyperinflation will be the result.

andrew

realitykeeper wrote: »

As long as the ECB has credibility, it can control the interest rate on newly issued currency such as its QE program. The problem for the ECB is that it will become less credible as time passes because even if the inflation increases to the target 2% in response to their QE program, the economic growth they are hoping for will not materialize.

The ECB will then either have to launch further QE, which cannot continue indefinitely without the risk of sparking hyperinflation. Or, as in the US, the ECB would have to pretend the economy is stronger than it actually is and repeat again and again that they are going to increase interest rates but without actually doing it. The purpose of this bluff is to sell the impression to the markets that the economy is stronger than it actually is in order to keep the stock market and currency propped up. If the Euro slips the ECB hint that they will increase interest rates (but without following through) and if the stock markets slip they will say that they will keep the interest rates low and perhaps hint of further QE.

Eventually, all this bluffing will be seen for what it is. When that happens, both the Euro, and the European stock markets will fall and consumer prices will rise. The risks associated with European bonds will rise and the cost of borrowing will increase for individual Eurozone countries. It is this associated risk that will ultimately force the ECB interest rates to increase rapidly in and uncontrolled manner because the only answer they will have for the collapsing stock markets will be QE on steroids. The Euro will become worthless and hyperinflation will be the result.

You're so wrong you're not even wrong. I suggest reading this about QE or even just reading the wiki page about hyperinflation.

realitykeeper

andrew wrote: »

You're so wrong you're not even wrong. I suggest reading this about QE or even just reading the wiki page about hyperinflation.

I read your "this" link. It explains QE from an advocates point of view. Now consider the 3rd step, where it says if inflation gets too high the BOE can sell assets it purchased with newly created digital currency (from step 2).

The problem is this: Those assets will plummet in value along with the rest of the stock market if a moderate stock market crash were to happen. Nobody is going to catch that falling knife. What will the BOE do then? It could try negitive interest rates and have a run on the banks or it could try a new round of QE and have a run on Sterling.

Remember, the whole point of QE was to stop a depression so the run on Sterling will not stop with the sell off of the QE purchased assets.

Rightwing

We've spent a lot of time looking at this, apart from being great for Wall St, QE can only have little impact on the real economy. It works well in theory but not in practice. Japan is the litmus test for QE as they are the biggest proponents of it.

QE did contribute to 1 of the 5 longest bull runs in history, and as with keeping interest rates artifically low, it's all about keeping the markets calm. From Bernanke & co's angle, as markets are high & int rates are low, consumers will spend more. However, the problem I see with this is you will eventually force yourself into a dangerous corner. The market is never wrong, but it will eventually call your bluff.

Zubeneschamali

Rightwing wrote: »

the problem I see with this is you will eventually force yourself into a dangerous corner.

A prediction which can never be proven wrong.

BoatMad

It is this associated risk that will ultimately force the ECB interest rates to increase rapidly in and uncontrolled manner because the only answer they will have for the collapsing stock markets will be QE on steroids. The Euro will become worthless and hyperinflation will be the result.

OMG , Im stocking up on tins of mandarin oranges as we speak, Argos has a nuclear bunker on special offer too.. (be aware , some assembly required, batteries not included )

BoJack Horseman

BoatMad wrote: »

Argos has a nuclear bunker on special offer too.. (be aware , some assembly required, batteries not included )

That's actually a coal bunker.

Our Realitykeeper' told us Ireland will be in 3rd world poverty levels by 2018..... Who else is building an Arc?

Rightwing

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

A prediction which can never be proven wrong.

If you tried to post a more ridiculous comment, you would have struggled.

Of course it can be proven wrong. That's what the entire financial world is watching at the moment. Can we get back to normalisation.

Hope this helps.

Zubeneschamali

Rightwing wrote: »

Of course it can be proven wrong. That's what the entire financial world is watching at the moment. Can we get back to normalisation.

No - it could be proven right, if someone forced themselves into a dangerous corner.

But if it doesn't happen this year, or next, or the one after that, you will just say "Ah, wait and see- this can't continue forever!"

Or do you have a timeframe in mind? If this prediction does not come true by Jan 2020, will you admit you were wrong?

Rightwing

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

No - it could be proven right, if someone forced themselves into a dangerous corner.

But if it doesn't happen this year, or next, or the one after that, you will just say "Ah, wait and see- this can't continue forever!"

Or do you have a timeframe in mind? If this prediction does not come true by Jan 2020, will you admit you were wrong?

What are you talking about ?

Zubeneschamali

Rightwing wrote: »

What are you talking about ?

Your prediction, which can never be proven wrong because you didn't provide a timeframe.

You said: you will eventually force yourself into a dangerous corner.

So I asked, when? Does "eventually" mean this will happen this year? Next? Before 2020? Before 2050? In the next hundred years?

realitykeeper

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Your prediction, which can never be proven wrong because you didn't provide a timeframe.

You said: you will eventually force yourself into a dangerous corner.

So I asked, when? Does "eventually" mean this will happen this year? Next? Before 2020? Before 2050? In the next hundred years?

When I start a "Bad Economic News thread," then you will know it is imminent if not already in motion.

ezra_pound

realitykeeper wrote: »

When I start a "Bad Economic News thread," then you will know it is imminent if not already in motion.

So when's that then?

What did you do in 2006 to forewarn the approaching economic collapse?

Zubeneschamali

realitykeeper wrote: »

When I start a "Bad Economic News thread," then you will know it is imminent if not already in motion.

Again, you are deliberately being vague so that you can never be proven wrong. I'll make a counter prediction, which can be proven wrong very easily if it is actually wrong.

Inflation will stay below 5% in the EU for the next 10 years. I'll log in around 2025 to say "Told you so!".

realitykeeper

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Again, you are deliberately being vague so that you can never be proven wrong.

Has it occurred to you that the reason I cannot be proven wrong is because I am right?

Zubeneschamali

realitykeeper wrote: »

Has it occurred to you that the reason I cannot be proven wrong is because I am right?

I can predict that someday cats will learn to talk, and never be proven wrong, just like you. Does that mean I am right? No.

If you understand the issues so well, you tell us - when will this hyperinflation happen? Or even easier, when will EU inflation top 5%?

10 years? 20? 50? 100? Give us a ballpark figure here.

But you won't, because everyone knows you are completely wrong, and any real prediction you make will prove it, just like my talking cats prediction.

Rightwing

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Your prediction, which can never be proven wrong because you didn't provide a timeframe.

You said: you will eventually force yourself into a dangerous corner.

So I asked, when? Does "eventually" mean this will happen this year? Next? Before 2020? Before 2050? In the next hundred years?

I'm getting the distinct impression you don't know what you are talking about. Now, I do concede that it can be a complicated topic and is probably beyond the scope of this forum. However, I did stress that it can certainly be proven wrong, this would be blatantly obvious to anyone with a reasonable understanding of the situation.

You appear transfixed with dates, which is nothing more than a wild tangent.

The Fed has backed itself into a corner with its easy money policies, and now they must come out of it. This is when we will see the true health of the world economy. The eyes of the financial world have been waiting for over a year for this and on each occasion the FOMC have lost their nerve. But similar to myself, they know they have no choice but to end ZIRP. The markets are primed for the first tentative steps to be taken next month, perhaps by 1/8 of a percentage point. It will be a gradual process but nonetheless I expect to see a world recession within 18 months of this.

Sand

Rightwing wrote: »

I'm getting the distinct impression you don't know what you are talking about. Now, I do concede that it can be a complicated topic and is probably beyond the scope of this forum. However, I did stress that it can certainly be proven wrong, this would be blatantly obvious to anyone with a reasonable understanding of the situation.

You appear transfixed with dates, which is nothing more than a wild tangent.

The Fed has backed itself into a corner with its easy money policies, and now they must come out of it. This is when we will see the true health of the world economy. The eyes of the financial world have been waiting for over a year for this and on each occasion the FOMC have lost their nerve. But similar to myself, they know they have no choice but to end ZIRP. The markets are primed for the first tentative steps to be taken next month, perhaps by 1/8 of a percentage point. It will be a gradual process but nonetheless I expect to see a world recession within 18 months of this.

Seriously, the markets will not take a bet against a non-pegged central bank, because the central bank can print money and the markets cannot. The issue with the ECB in the EU sense was that under Trichet it was some sort of idealogical haven for moronic zealots who denied the ECB was actually the European Central Bank. When Draghi arrived and publicly declared that the ECB would defend the Euro to the hilt it was a game changer - because Trichet and his moronic cohorts deliberately or otherwise spread fear and panic that the ECB was not committed to defending the Euro. Why believe in a Euro the ECB does not believe in?

The same is not true for the Fed. It believes in the dollar and the US economy and it will fight tooth and nail for both. It can simply afford to be wrong for far longer than any market participant can afford to be wrong. Because it sets the rules of the game. And if it loses a round it simply prints more money. Other participants might win short term, but they cannot win long term. It pays to fall in line because it will crush you in the long term. If people were investing in the "It will collapse soon" viewpoint against the Fed, they would be broke by now.

People have been predicting the imminent demise of the US dollar and US economy for decades. Go and find them now. Bring a shovel.

This is not to say the US economy and the Fed are invincible because they are the US economy and the Fed. It is because they largely follow coherent policies that are successful. When they stop acknowledging they are successful because they earn success, and are simply successful because they are the US economy or the Fed, that is when they will fail. But not before.

Sand

BoatMad wrote: »

The tax payer is on course to make a fine gain from the money " invested " into the main pillar banks.

Pillar bank. Thats an interesting description.

Allied Irish Bank.

ICI collapsed in 1984. Ireland was in deep recession, with debts far greater than its GDP. But the Irish taxpayer bailed out AIB. It will never happen again. Promise.

John Rushnak in 2002. 4th biggest banking scandal in the world (up to 2002 anway - AIB can and will do better). It will never happen again. Promise.

AIB tax evasion in 2000 - highest tax settlement in the history of Ireland. A fine repayment for the Irish taxpayers bailout in 1984. It will never happen again. Promise.

AIB overcharging on FX - €65 million euro, including a donation to a charity nobody seems able to locate or credit. It will never happen again. Promise.

AIB settling debts with Haughey shortly after he became Taoiseach on terms which tribunals later found to be favourable to Haughey. The deference the bank showed was found to be "extraordinary" given the millions he owed, and given they were throwing families out of their homes for sums of a few thousand owed. It will never happen again. Promise.

Yeah, a pillar bank. Money well spent by the Irish taxpayer. I am sure they have learnt their lesson this time. It will never happen again. Promise.

Honestly, how many times does the Irish taxpayer have to get punched in the face before it is acknowledged that the cost of bailing out the pillar banks is not limited to the immediate issue, but the culture of incompetence, greed, and sheer out and out theft in the Irish "pillar banks". I would say next time, let them burn. But there will always be useful idiots happy to volunteer tax payers money to bailout their own mistakes and the incompetence of the morons running the "pillar banks". Afterall, it is not your money you are spending to bailout your mistakes. It is my money. But, hey, **** me right?

realitykeeper

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I can predict that someday cats will learn to talk, and never be proven wrong, just like you. Does that mean I am right? No.

If you understand the issues so well, you tell us - when will this hyperinflation happen? Or even easier, when will EU inflation top 5%?

10 years? 20? 50? 100? Give us a ballpark figure here.

But you won't, because everyone knows you are completely wrong, and any real prediction you make will prove it, just like my talking cats prediction.

What you are asking for is ridiculous. I can certainly tell you that the share price of Coca Cola will both rise and fall a various times in the future but if you demand specific times when this will happen people will only laugh at you.

That said, I do not think you will have to wait 10 years or even 5 years to see inflation top 5% en route to 500%. I do not think it will happen this side of 2018 but could be wrong about that.

K-9

Mod:

Right, I'm failing to see what is realistic about the stuff posted in the thread recently.

The thread was started as a foil to the good news thread and to avoid dragging it too much off topic, that was fine and definitely served a purpose as a more critical view of the economic news coming out. Still, as per the title, it has to be realistic stuff, not fanciful projections of possibilities.

I don't think I'm being harsh here, I really don't, just aiming for a realistic analysis of economic performance that is grounded in reality. Basically, if somebody wants to make a big claim they need to have realistic back up for it.

Rightwing

Sand wrote: »

Seriously, the markets will not take a bet against a non-pegged central bank, because the central bank can print money and the markets cannot. The issue with the ECB in the EU sense was that under Trichet it was some sort of idealogical haven for moronic zealots who denied the ECB was actually the European Central Bank. When Draghi arrived and publicly declared that the ECB would defend the Euro to the hilt it was a game changer - because Trichet and his moronic cohorts deliberately or otherwise spread fear and panic that the ECB was not committed to defending the Euro. Why believe in a Euro the ECB does not believe in?

The same is not true for the Fed. It believes in the dollar and the US economy and it will fight tooth and nail for both. It can simply afford to be wrong for far longer than any market participant can afford to be wrong. Because it sets the rules of the game. And if it loses a round it simply prints more money. Other participants might win short term, but they cannot win long term. It pays to fall in line because it will crush you in the long term. If people were investing in the "It will collapse soon" viewpoint against the Fed, they would be broke by now.

People have been predicting the imminent demise of the US dollar and US economy for decades. Go and find them now. Bring a shovel.

This is not to say the US economy and the Fed are invincible because they are the US economy and the Fed. It is because they largely follow coherent policies that are successful. When they stop acknowledging they are successful because they earn success, and are simply successful because they are the US economy or the Fed, that is when they will fail. But not before.

Good post.

But the markets took a bet against the US before and the outcome was as conclusive as could be. Carter & the US were humiliated, America was forced to issue T-bonds in Swiss Fr and Dmarks.

Now, the US has never been as weak, $18trl of debt racked up, an ageing population, and what can the Fed do now to stem a recession? Negative interest rates? Or back to a lot more printing? This is why it's policies of the last few years have been rather foolish.

Zubeneschamali

realitykeeper wrote: »

That said, I do not think you will have to wait 10 years or even 5 years to see inflation top 5% en route to 500%. I do not think it will happen this side of 2018 but could be wrong about that.

Thanks you, I shall certainly log on in 2020 to have a good laugh at your expense.

realitykeeper

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Thanks you, I shall certainly log on in 2020 to have a good laugh at your expense.

We shall see.

andrew

So it's settled then; we'll see? Great.

realitykeeper

In the business supplement of yesterday`s Irish Times, there was an interesting front page report. Some of the non NAMA developers have launched a complaint with the European commission. They say NAMA is breaching rules on state subsidies by making its state backed low interest borrowings available to its favoured developers at rates of 5% when other developers have to borrow at 15%.

Some of the non NAMA developers are saying that the present slow rate of houses being built will be even slower when NAMA is finally wound down. This is because many of the smaller developers cannot compete with NAMA and will have been forced out of business.

This is just one more consequence of state interference in the private banking and housing sectors. Meanwhile, in Iceland, their real world market driven economy is booming, especially in the construction sector. And, lest we forget, the government here has to pay developers to develop because there is no profit in it anymore. There is no need or desire for such foolishness in Iceland. Ireland should have let the banks fail.

flutered

andrew wrote: »

Ireland is very much not mainland Europe, and that makes all the difference.

should it

flutered

Silentcorner wrote: »

You don't know Limerick very well.

The biggest pharmacutical plant in the state is currently being build in Raheen, they cannot build office space in Castletroy fast enough to keep up with demand, new office space is about to be commenced in the city centre (the Hanging Gardens), over 2,000 jobs have been announced in the city over the last few years. Tourism is rising in double digits, hotels are seeing the fastest growth in occupancy and room rates in the country.

The city has the most affordable housing in the country. ( and indeed in a recent survey of over 350 cities world wide)
The city is the most accessable city in the country, nobody has more than a 20 minute commute.
It will have the best infrastructure in the state, the completion of the ring road is about to commence.
It has the best sporting infrastructure outside of Dublin, best stadiums, facilities etc.
It has the most progressive university in the country which is helping draw investment.
Major construction projects are about to commence, new courthouse, two new construction sites in Castletroy to cope with demand for office space, Hanging Gardens as already mentioned, the long awaited Opera Centre (the biggest project outside of Dublin) will commence in the next 12-18 months...and dare I say it, the Horizon Mall, the biggest shopping development outside of Dublin...

There are two more major investment announcements imminent!

Apart from the above I suppose you are right...the city is on its arse!!!

There is a real feeling on the ground that the city is about to start delivering on its potential, the local government infrastructure has changed radically which has been a huge help.

It only has a perception problem....if I had a euro for every one who expressed a negative opinion on Limerick over the years I would be buying houses in Dublin in cash!!!

true, who came up with the idea of a wind generator in castletroy, is it noisey enough to be heard in the offices etc nearby

BoatMad

Honestly, how many times does the Irish taxpayer have to get punched in the face before it is acknowledged that the cost of bailing out the pillar banks is not limited to the immediate issue, but the culture of incompetence, greed, and sheer out and out theft in the Irish "pillar banks". I would say next time, let them burn. But there will always be useful idiots happy to volunteer tax payers money to bailout their own mistakes and the incompetence of the morons running the "pillar banks". Afterall, it is not your money you are spending to bailout your mistakes. It is my money. But, hey, **** me right?

ah yes, let them burn theory, mind you when your ATM wont pay out that friday nights money to go get locked, you might change your attitude

The tax payer didnt bail out the banks by the way , most of that was used to fund the current exchequer budget deficit , The banks were bailed from borrowed money and the NPRF. AIB, BOI, and ultimately TSB will repay and make the taxpayer a prefect , thats not a bailout , thats called an investment. Anglo is dead money and that is promissory money ( i.e. juster printed out of thin air) and will be endlessly rolled over .,

JustTheOne

BoatMad wrote: »

ah yes, let them burn theory, mind you when your ATM wont pay out that friday nights money to go get locked, you might change your attitude

The tax payer didnt bail out the banks by the way , most of that was used to fund the current exchequer budget deficit , The banks were bailed from borrowed money and the NPRF. AIB, BOI, and ultimately TSB will repay and make the taxpayer a prefect , thats not a bailout , thats called an investment. Anglo is dead money and that is promissory money ( i.e. juster printed out of thin air) and will be endlessly rolled over .,

But but austerity!

The countries on is knees cause of the bankers.

mjv2ydratu679c

BoatMad wrote: »

The banks were bailed from borrowed money and the NPRF. AIB, BOI, and ultimately TSB will repay and make the taxpayer a prefect , thats not a bailout , thats called an investment. Anglo is dead money and that is promissory money ( i.e. juster printed out of thin air) and will be endlessly rolled over .,

So the money borrowed and invested in AIB, BOI, TSB, Anglo Irish and Nationwide will be repaid in full? If not and there is a shortfall who picks up the tab?

BoJack Horseman

Caleb Skinny Crowd wrote: »

who picks up the tab?

The value of investments may go down aswell as up"

KingBrian2

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

The value of investments may go down aswell as up"

It's also important to bear in mind the cost of keeping a social welfare system that is fit for purpose. Some countries don't even have a minimum wage. Previous gvts had a tendency to pay out sums that did not belong to them. Future gvt want to abuse the Exchequer for their own fancy budget plans.

realitykeeper

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

The value of investments may go down aswell as up"

I would be happy to let Michael Noonan keep all the profits if he takes the losses too.

As for Anglo, its ghost will rise to haunt winners of the next general election. I predict the 32nd Dail will coincide with the start of the greatest global recession in human history.

BoJack Horseman

realitykeeper wrote: »

I predict the 32nd Dail will coincide with the start of the greatest global recession in human history.

Yes, as you said.... Ireland will be as poor as the poorest 3rd world state by 2018...

Just 24 months to go....

ezra_pound

http://m.independent.ie/business/irish/investors-warned-about-sinn-feins-economic-policies-34282432.html

A major international investment bank has issued a stark warning about the possibility of Sinn Fein being in government to investors considering taking a punt on Ireland's resurgent economy.