Headphones Megathread

Snickers Man

OleRodrigo wrote: »

Has anyone disagreeing with earphones while cycling actually cycled with earphones?

.

Raises hand.

Again to be specific, it's plug in ear phones/buds not the sort of All-ear covering "cans" like in the picture above.

Could still hear nearby traffic. And of course there's still my eyes. Can't see anything wrong with it TBH.

But when I come to power after a coup I'm going to make hi-viz jackets at night compulsory .........[retreats, dons tin hat]

Deedsie

OleRodrigo wrote: »

Has anyone disagreeing with earphones while cycling actually cycled with earphones?

Or is it more of ' I would imagine '., probably ' and other prefaces to unqualified waffle.

Ya when I started going for long spins on my own. It can be a bit boring, I def wasn't as aware of my surroundings and got awful shocks with cars and busses "appearing out of nowhere" at my shoulder. Funnily enough I always hear traffic approach from behind me now.

I joined a club soon after and I was advised against wearing headphones while cycling by a senior member of the club.

Obviously I always look around but it is nice to have hearing as an additional option. Dogs barking too was one, hearing a dog in a yard barking prepares you for the fact he may be fixing for a chase. It gives you additional time to prepare and check your surroundings behind you and your road position.

Might sound like a silly point but they are all silly until they happen and you land under a car as you swerve to avoid a dog you didn't know was there.

tomasrojo

I sometimes listen to a podcast while cycling down to do the weekly shop last thing on a Friday in Aldi in the Sandyford Industrial Estate. There are hardly any cars around, I don't go through any difficult junctions, there's no left-turning traffic on the route. If there were cars, I wouldn't be able to hear the podcast anyway; my phone doesn't play audio at a high volume. I can hear cars approaching. I can hear people talking as I pass them, in fact.

This is perfectly safe, as far as I'm concerned. Even if it's less safe than listening to nothing, it's still perfectly safe.

tomasrojo

On terminology: to me headphones are "cans", earphones are "buds". Headphones block out external sound, earphones don't, though if your player is powerful enough they can drown out external sound.

tomasrojo

Deedsie wrote: »

In this argument, that is a distinction without a difference? Any type of headphone/earphone which reduces your ability to hear whatever is going on around you.

Headphones reduce the external sounds a LOT more. You don't have to have the volume turned right up in order to have your hearing very compromised.

rubadub

smacl wrote: »

If being able to hear properly made no contribution to safety for road users, as you seem to be implying, by further implication your also saying that having horns fitted to cars, trucks, buses, etc.. also has no value whatsoever. This is clearly not the case

Is it clear? have you seen any studies showing the effectivness?

I have always wondered if we would be better off without car horns, the majority of the time I hear them they are used illegally, or at least against the rules of the road.

I have seen many jumpy people have the utter shit scared out of them while driving, I expect many accidents are due to beeping, people being startled. On a bike its even worse as they are so loud since they are designed for people in semi-soundproofed cars to hear, I have had many jumpy scares & wobbles myself as these pricks beep at friends on the footpath.

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2008/11/honk_if_you_know_why_youre_honking.html

Jeff Muttart, a traffic-accident reconstructionist, has pored over hundreds of surveillance videos of real-life car crashes and near-crashes. In 2005, he concluded that emergency horn use is not associated with decreased accident involvement. He found that drivers never steered and honked at the same time, and usually they didn't honk at all. About half of emergency honks were meant to chastise and came only after the danger was over. The other half were just preludes to a crash. "It really didn't serve any purpose at all. It was just, Hey, by the way, I'm going to hit you."

Also: We stink at honking. A 2001 survey for the U.K. Institute of Traffic Accident Investigators shows that most people take two to three times as long to honk as they do to brake or steer. Professional drivers, like cabbies, are a bit quicker—they practice. (Now that automakers are getting over the whole tiny-horn-buttons craze, honk times may improve.)

Muttart explains this honking deficiency by the fact that many people view the horn as a tool for scolding rather than safety. So when we want to avoid a crash, we don't think to use it. (You don't look for a phone when you need a fire extinguisher.) It's possible honk speeds are better in India, where no one overlooks the horn, and the honking is more existential than aggressive. Of course, the street noise there can be literally deafening, and India's roads have one of the highest death rates in the world.

Perhaps the world just needs more standardized honking education. Here are some tips from AAA on how to use the horn to warn a child cyclist: "Ideally, you should sound the horn when you're about a half-block away … If you blast the horn at close range, you'll startle the cyclist. He may look over his left shoulder in surprise and steer inadvertently into your path. Worse, he may lose control and fall directly in front of you."

In other words: If you see a kid on a bike and he's at least a half-block away (the block being the standard unit of distance used by AAA's honking scientists), then give a toot. But take care: If you screw up, you may crush his tiny body beneath your wheels. This kind of messaging hardly helps: Instead of teaching us good behavior, it makes us afraid of the horn and takes the joy out of honking.

As for earphones, I did wear them occassionally, and would look around me a hell of a lot more, like I expect deaf people would. I got into this habit more after not using them too since I discovered I was putting too much faith in the little benefit hearing gave me.

I think the bigger danger is the distraction of changing volume or tracks, or wires being entangled. Just like motorists fiddling with CDs or buttons. I see lots of drivers with earphones in cars, not single ear ones.

But of course similarly suggesting drivers turn off all unnecceary distractions in the car would be as mad as suggesting they wear cycling style helmets while driving. Even though they are said to afford more protection to motorists. That suggestion would be as mad as a cyclist who wears no helmet or has earphones...

tomasrojo

Yeah, I'd agree that the horn is usually used as chastisement. Or to scare you for a laugh as a car is passing.

smacl

rubadub wrote: »

I have always wondered if we would be better off without car horns, the majority of the time I hear them they are used illegally, or at least against the rules of the road.

You could well be right, though I've also seen plenty of instances where a judicial beep of the horn has avoided a tip. On the broader issue of the value of audio cues, how about a siren from an approaching emergency vehicle that is not in your line of sight, reversing alarms on trucks, etc... Interestingly, we're seeing artificial engine sounds being added to electric vehicles and there are studies out there suggesting that entirely quiet vehicles could be a hazard. I personally find various audio cues valuable as a cyclist and wouldn't want to be without them.

As per my previous posts, there is a world of a difference between using earphones/plus sensibly and blocking out all external sound.

jive

I don't use earphones when cycling but as far as I'm concerned you don't need to 'hear' to cycle. You shouldn't cycle differently just because you can hear things, if you're relying on your ears to make decisions on the bike then you'll end up in a spot of bother sooner rather than later.

If someone is driving up behind me, and as I cycle in Dublin City this is literally all the time, I just hold my line and wait for them to pass; whether I can hear that or not is irrelevant, it's up to the driver to pass safely and for me not to do anything erratic which would cause them any issues going by me.

benneca1

I assume there will be a massive increase in sales of speakers for bicycles !!! In the emerald enduro last year one guy had serious speakers attached to his bike

07Lapierre

There seems to be an assumption that once you have earbuds in your ears and are listening to music, that you can't hear anything else! This is not the case... In fact it's the opposite. There's so much noise around, it's hard to hear the music. It's just background music, nothing more. If I was to turn up the volume so I could only hear the music:
1. I'd be deaf years ago!
2. The volume doesn't go up high enough!
3. You'd still be able to hear wind noise, sirens, tyre roar, etc. Etc.

tomasrojo

07Lapierre wrote: »

There seems to be an assumption that once you have earbuds in your ears and are listening to music, that you can't hear anything else! This is not the case... In fact it's the opposite. There's so much noise around, it's hard to hear the music.

Yes, I find it futile trying to hear podcasts or music on the road, except when the roads are really quiet. In the city centre, for example, I can't hear a thing coming out of the earbuds when I'm walking around, let alone cycling. It's just frustrating and pointless.

07Lapierre

tomasrojo wrote: »

Yes, I find it futile trying to hear podcasts or music on the road, except when the roads are really quiet. In the city centre, for example, I can't hear a thing coming out of the earbuds when I'm walking around, let alone cycling. It's just frustrating and pointless.

I can hear the music alright, but if I was listening to the radio and it was a talkshow, I usually cant follow the conversation. I must start using Spotify instead!

tomasrojo

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

I'm glad I'm not the only one. I read that piece wondering if defective tyres were causing accidents or were correlated and finished none the wiser.

That’s right – if a drunk, high, or speeding driver collides with a tree while using the wrong size tyres, they log the tyres as a contributor.

Common sense would suggest that in the big scheme of crash causes, tyres are in the ha’penny place compared to cocaine, but they get counted nonetheless. Only three crashes in four years were caused exclusively by tyre problems.

http://www.independent.ie/life/motoring/car-news/anton-savage-has-anyone-got-any-evidence-that-the-nct-is-money-well-spent-anyone-34626550.html

smacl

Just saw a link to this on the Wicklow 200 facebook page. Much as I love the music belting out when I'm on the turbo, wouldn't go near the pictured headphones on the road. Bit too much AC/DC on Jens' playlist for my liking too...

tomasrojo

Here is a profoundly deaf person on what it's like cycling:
www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2016/apr/15/im-deaf-but-it-doesnt-stop-me-cycling

(Put it here as a few people made the comparison between earphone-using cyclists and deaf cyclists.)

smacl

tomasrojo wrote: »

Here is a profoundly deaf person on what it's like cycling:
www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2016/apr/15/im-deaf-but-it-doesnt-stop-me-cycling

(Put it here as a few people made the comparison between earphone-using cyclists and deaf cyclists.)

Interesting that the deaf author considers cycling with music potentially dangerous;

Some people might think that deaf people cycling or driving is dangerous, but what I lack in hearing, I more than make up for in other ways. I question whether a hearing person cycling or driving with music is actually more dangerous as they usually will unconsciously rely on hearing.

Also surprised he doesn't at least stick a couple of mirrors on the bike, given the comment below;

A few times I’ve been on small country lanes, looked around and found three or four cars stuck behind me. I have no doubt they’d been blasting their horns because when I move over to let them pass, I often get the finger.

Kudos to the guy for keeping up cycling in the face of adversity, but he doesn't really inspire confidence.

rubadub

smacl wrote: »

Also surprised he doesn't at least stick a couple of mirrors on the bike, given the comment below

You'd think they would have a device to detect loud sounds like a horn and have a warning light flash. Maybe there is one.

smacl

rubadub wrote: »

You'd think they would have a device to detect loud sounds like a horn and have a warning light flash. Maybe there is one.

It would certainly make sense. I met a large truck approaching from a blind bend on a narrow rural road recently, and very much relied on the truck sounding its air horn as it entered the bend to avoid being on the bend at the same time. While they're rare enough, there are occasions where being able hear a horn or siren are important.

HugoRune

On a morning cycle last week, a cyclist was travelling at speed and dinged his bell to warn me. That was useful to hear because I was able to leave room for him.

On a related matter, I have luckily only once encountered a particular cyclist, trundling along with some sort of kettle bell suspended from his crossbar, convinced that he was the most important man in the world and that all should make way for his greatness. Just about everyone did make way -- pedestrians, cars -- but I'm pretty sure it was because they were expecting to see a herd of cows or a horse and cart. Not because of his greatness.

jon1981

Cycling up the quays past Tara st station as I do every morning. Dublin bike cyclist in the cycle lane decides to just veer out of lane to cross to the other lane, no hand signal, no warning, taxi is coming up behind had to jam on and swerve to the right to avoid missing the guy by inches and the cyclists f**ks the taxi driver out it!
I cycle past the cyclist and notice he had ear phones on, so not only did he not look but he couldn't f**king hear a the car behind him...what an absolute tool box!

In the event of an accident of this nature, surely the cyclist is at fault here? I think earphones need to be included in the ban, your hearing is as important as your sight. Pointless rant but this sort of crap really fuels the negative feelings towards cyclists!

tomasrojo

I assume the cyclist would be judged at fault, for not carrying out the cycling equivalent of Mirror-Signal-Manoeuvre. If it were in court, I assume the judge would comment on the use of headphones/earphones.

(We flogged that horse far beyond the point of death recently.)

OleRodrigo

Sounds like he was an idiot cyclist, who just happened to be wearing earphones.

The two aren't necessarily related.

07Lapierre

Was the cyclist wearing a helmet?

Zillah

I am frequently astounded at the number of people who will happily turn across a lane on their bike without taking a glance first. My favourites are the ones who don't look but do signal, as though they think sticking their arm out reserves their spot in a different lane or something.

Anyway, swerving between lanes without looking or indicating is the problem here, not the headphones.

jon1981

07Lapierre wrote: »

Was the cyclist wearing a helmet?

No, Dublin bike cyclist rarely do, though surely you'd be extra vigilant knowing you're not protected around the head!

jon1981

Zillah wrote: »

I am frequently astounded at the number of people who will happily turn across a lane on their bike without taking a glance first. My favourites are the ones who don't look but do signal, as though they think sticking their arm out reserves their spot in a different lane or something.

it's really a CYA gesture alright, very annoying!

07Lapierre

jon1981 wrote: »

No, Dublin bike cyclist rarely do, though surely you'd be extra vigilant knowing you're not protected around the head!

Helmet/headphones...doesn't matter. Wearing a helmet and not listening to headphones, wont make you a better cyclist. What you saw was a numpty riding a bike who broke the cardinal rule. Before turning right, LOOK over your shoulder and check its safe to do so.

Its the same when driving...Mirror, Indicator, Manoeuvre.

Trond

One of my major pet hates. I find it incredible how people think this is acceptable. Your ears are a lifeline whilst cycling in Dublin.

Only yesterday I saw some absolute fool on Pearse St. flying along wearing a set of beats. He looked like he was late for the Darwin Awards!

NiallBoo

Headphones weren't this guy's problem.

But there may have been a problem between them...