Headphones Megathread

Agent Smyth

Roadhawk wrote: »

Possibly why i see it as dangerous.

I've had a Walkman since they came out in the early 80s and since then nearly every time I exercise I've had music in my ears so its become second nature to me to cycle with the headphones on. I don't see it as dangerous but rather a low risk when cycling and an enhancement to my enjoyment of cycling.

rubadub

I do not support any proposed ban.

However the deaf comparison is not great, a closer (albeit more unlikely) analogy would be cyclists wearing ear plugs. If people thought cyclists should not be allowed wear earplugs then it is fairer to ask about deaf people. A large concern is that it is a distraction, people listening to songs, trying to remember what a song is, daydreaming, listening to podcasts, listening to weather reports, quizes, comedy, fiddling about with mp3 players, selecting songs, changing volume etc.

I expect some might wear earplugs to reduce wind noise, or to reduce the shock of hearing car horns etc. They may not be designed to completely block out sound, like most earphones don't

The Bishop Basher

Generally 2 groups of cyclists on these threads.

There are those who use common sense, and / or their own experience to determine the fact that wearing headphones while cycling reduces their safety on the road and so they don't wear them.

Then there's another large group that know damn fine it negatively affects their safety but they prioritise entertainment over safety and do it anyway.

There's nothing wrong with either position, I just wish the second group were a bit more honest about it and stop coming up with ridiculous and spurious arguments to justify wearing headphones when cycling. It's clearly not as safe as having all of your senses available and no amount of shouting about deaf people and drivers will change that.

Roadhawk

07Lapierre wrote: »

It could also be interpreted as you having an opinion on something that you have no experience at.

Some things are just obvious though. Its just a matter of applying logic sense.

magicbastarder

Roadhawk wrote: »

Its just a matter of applying logic sense.

wearing ablative armour would logically make cyclists safer. i think you're misinterpreting what 'logic sense is'.

Tonyandthewhale

I wear headphones while cycling around town. It probably makes me a little less safe than I am when cycling without them (both because I'm liable to be more distracted and can't hear so much) but don't have any reliable info that would imply the safety difference is hugely significant and the risks involved in cycling around town aren't particularly high anyway so I don't worry all that much about it.

Synode

Swanner wrote: »

Generally 2 groups of cyclists on these threads.

There are those who use common sense, and / or their own experience to determine the fact that wearing headphones while cycling reduces their safety on the road and so they don't wear them.

Then there's another large group that know damn fine it negatively affects their safety but they prioritise entertainment over safety and do it anyway.

There's nothing wrong with either position, I just wish the second group were a bit more honest about it and stop coming up with ridiculous and spurious arguments to justify wearing headphones when cycling. It's clearly not as safe as having all of your senses available and no amount of shouting about deaf people and drivers will change that.

Absolute nonsense. Give us one plausible situation where a cyclist who obeys the rules of the road (stops at lights, doesn't mount paths etc.) is less safe with earphones in?

NiallBoo

Swanner wrote: »

Generally 2 groups of cyclists on these threads.

There are those who use common sense, and / or their own experience to determine the fact that wearing headphones while cycling reduces their safety on the road and so they don't wear them.

Then there's another large group that know damn fine it negatively affects their safety but they prioritise entertainment over safety and do it anyway.

There's nothing wrong with either position, I just wish the second group were a bit more honest about it and stop coming up with ridiculous and spurious arguments to justify wearing headphones when cycling. It's clearly not as safe as having all of your senses available and no amount of shouting about deaf people and drivers will change that.

While we're being logical...
The question you've failed to ask yourself is whether the difference in risk is great enough to warrant action.

tomasrojo

Roadhawk wrote: »

This conversation will go around in circles.

Look around you. This is a megathread. This is where arguments go to circle the drain perpetually.

The Bishop Basher

NiallBoo wrote: »

whether the difference in risk is great enough to warrant action.

Probably not.

The Bishop Basher

Synode wrote: »

Absolute nonsense. Give us one plausible situation where a cyclist who obeys the rules of the road (stops at lights, doesn't mount paths etc.) is less safe with earphones in?

As I cycle out my driveway which shortly after a bend on a hill, I rely on my hearing to determine if anything is coming.

So there's one within the first 10 seconds of my cycle.

Synode

Swanner wrote: »

As I cycle out my driveway which is on a blind and fast bend, I rely very much in my hearing as well as my sight.

So within the first 10 seconds of my cycle, I'm relying on my hearing.

You shouldn't be cycling out a driveway on to a dangerous bend. That's just silly

The Bishop Basher

Synode wrote: »

You shouldn't be cycling out a driveway on to a dangerous bend. That's just silly

It's perfectly safe to cycle out slowly using both eyes and ears. I've never had a near miss or a problem. But it would borderline dangerous with headphones in.

Synode

Swanner wrote: »

It's perfectly safe to cycle out slowly using both eyes and ears. I've never had a near miss or a problem. But it would borderline dangerous with headphones in.

It's dangerous full stop. With or without headphones

Synode

Also, if you really need your hearing then pop your headphones out for a minute, like most cyclists with a bit of sense would do

The Bishop Basher

Synode wrote: »

It's dangerous full stop. With or without headphones

It's really not but I can appreciate that it's difficult for you to make that call without knowing the entrance.

Fact is, it's perfectly safe when using all your senses. If a car, bus or truck is coming, I can hear them and I'll wait for them to pass. I've never had a problem, nor will I unless I encounter a speeding EV which is always a possibility but even then I reckon I'd hear the tyre rumble a mile off as long as I didn't have headphones on.

Look, you asked for a plausible situation. I gave you a valid one but you just refuse to believe or accept it.

Fair enough but that approach kills off any room for debate.

So I'm happy to leave it there.

Synode

Fair enough, neither of us will convince the other. I'll continue to safely cycle my bike in and out of work while listening to podcasts or audiobooks.

Incidentally, in all my years of cycling I've only ever had one accident. It was caused by a car (stopped in a line of traffic) suddenly deciding to turn left as I came up the inside of his car in a bike lane. He clearly hadn't used his mirrors and manoeuvred without looking. My point being, it's perfectly safe cycling or driving while listening to music, just so long as you follow the rules of the road and look before you manoeuvre

Kaisr Sose

Roadhawk wrote: »

Just because a car has the ability to cause more damage does not mean it should display a higher level of care. Each road user should be equal in my opinion.

I seriously hope you don't drive!! A motor vehicle is a lethal weapon if the driver does not drive it with due care and attention at all times. A guy was sentenced to two years last week because he fell asleep at the wheel and killed somebody. For a few seconds he was not in control of his vehicle, not paying attention and that's what happened.

doozerie

The topic of earphones on cyclists invariably gets brought up in conjunction with stupid and/or dangerous behaviour. I just don't get why someone sees a person doing something stupid/dangerous and hones in on the earphones as being the key, or even just the shortest route, to eliminating such behaviour.

Pretty much every day I see people on bikes doing things that I would consider borderline suicidal. The vast majority of them are fully RSA compliant (helmet, hi-viz, no earphones), some of which suggests they've thought about their personal safety and have taken what they believe are reasonable steps to address it. Then they ride up the inside of a left-turning vehicle, switch lanes without looking behind, run a red light in the full expectation that traffic will weave around them, etc., etc. Generally I'm observing this from a safe distance, being entirely *non* RSA compliant, but expecting to live a lot longer than them. My choice of what I am or am not wearing hasn't turned me into a reckless moron, just like their choices of what they do or don't wear hasn't turned them into a responsible cyclist.

To me, the presence of earphones, amongst other things, is a complete red herring. If you are reckless on the bike with earphones you'll be reckless on the bike without them. Removing the earphones from the picture doesn't cure stupid, and it doesn't cure obnoxiousness.

There are far more relevant and useful things to get worked up about, things that if tackled might actually make a difference, such as the complete lack of spatial awareness of many people on bikes, the apparent complete unwillingness of many people on bikes to look over their shoulder before switching lines/lanes, the ignoring of red lights by many people on bikes, etc., etc. The same wilful ignorance displayed by far too many motorists and pedestrians too. Tackle even some of those behaviours and the roads would be a safer place for everyone.

Focusing on earphones is about as useful as getting worked up about the length of someones' socks, it may be extremely important to you but the truth is that your ire contributes bugger all to the world that you may mistakenly believe you are working hard to make a better place.

Roadhawk

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

I seriously hope you don't drive!! A motor vehicle is a lethal weapon if the driver does not drive it with due care and attention at all times. A guy was sentenced to two years last week because he fell asleep at the wheel and killed somebody. For a few seconds he was not in control of his vehicle, not paying attention and that's what happened.

I do drive and i cycle and i apply the same level of care to both modes of transport. Im just saying that the same level of care should be taken in all vehicles.

Your example of fatigue applies also to cycling. If you have just cycled a long distance your body is more tired and less responsive it high alert situations. Control of the bike can just as easily be lost. I wouldnt drive while tired...Stop, Sip, Sleep.

Synode

So you don't listen to music while driving then?

smacl

Synode wrote: »

Absolute nonsense. Give us one plausible situation where a cyclist who obeys the rules of the road (stops at lights, doesn't mount paths etc.) is less safe with earphones in?

My safety isn't entirely predicated on me obeying the rules of the road, it requires everyone else to obey them too. Sometimes you encounter those that don't. At these times, not being able hear can significantly increase your exposure to danger.

Depends on the headphones, assuming you can still hear some background noise, I don't think there's a problem. If they were to obliterate all background noise, I can think of plenty of potential situations where loss of hearing would put you in danger. For example, I met an articulated lorry coming around this corner a couple of weeks ago. It sounded its horn well in advance of entering the corner so I knew well to pull in and let it pass rather than being on the same bend at the same time. Now the lorry possibly shouldn't really have even been on this narrow road, but it was, and big lorries often take roads they shouldn't. Being in the right is cold comfort if you get hit by an artic.

smacl

doozerie wrote: »

Focusing on earphones is about as useful as getting worked up about the length of someones' socks, it may be extremely important to you but the truth is that your ire contributes bugger all to the world that you may mistakenly believe you are working hard to make a better place.

Yeah, but this isn't the ranting about reckless sock length megathread, its the ranting about headphones megathread. They say the truth is out there. I'm not convinced :pac:

tomasrojo

Deedsie wrote: »

To me, as a cyclist/motorist/pedestrian it's hypocritical of cyclists to give out about drivers being distracted by whatever, mobile phone, make up, shaving, cornflakes etc. To then stick earphones/headphones in their own ears.

To be fair, it's not necessarily the same cyclists giving out and wearing *phones.

Synode

Deedsie wrote: »

To me, as a cyclist/motorist/pedestrian it's hypocritical of cyclists to give out about drivers being distracted by whatever, mobile phone, make up, shaving, cornflakes etc. To then stick earphones/headphones in their own ears.

There are far worse things some cyclists do. Doesn't make it right to do it.

Sorry but a cyclist listening to music is distracted to the same level as someone in a car listening to music i.e. very, very little (unless of course there doing an air guitar solo at the same time ).

The other (actual) distractions you mention are completely different.

Synode

Deedsie wrote: »

They have mirrors, reversing sensors etc to see what is happening behind them.

A cyclist can easily look over their shoulder. Also, as silly as it sounds, what's happening behind you isn't as important for a cyclist as it is for a car (especially when using cycle lanes etc). Not to mention the fact that a cyclist with headphones in can still hear their surroundings

I honestly think most drivers have a general dislike for cyclists and will never understand until they get out themselves on a bike

helimachoptor

I cycle every day and have for a number of years with earphones, they have never been the cause of anything that has happened to me.

However given ive been ran over by a truck (pre-earphones) when i get on the bike i would say i'm more alert than most to whats going on

tomasrojo

Deedsie wrote: »

They have mirrors, reversing sensors etc to see what is happening behind them.

I have to say that even with all this stuff, I'm far more aware of what's around me on a bike than in a car. You have unrestricted views and are much more nimble. You also hear a lot more stuff, as cars are designed to keep out noise. Of course, *phones alter this equation a bit.

I'm probably in the "makes a bit of a difference but not enough for me to care about other people doing it" camp.

magicbastarder

tomasrojo wrote: »

You have unrestricted views

my wife is learning to drive and finds the blind spot created by the A pillar in the car (mkII octavia) amazing. she'd never really noticed how much it blocks your view until she tried to drive in it.

07Lapierre

Deedsie wrote: »

ALL Many earphone wearing cyclists have no idea what's about to overtake them unless they look over their shoulder and LOOK.

FYP