Headphones Megathread

droidus

Deedsie wrote: »

It is not blocking out one of your sense completely though? Also a car is fitted with additional safety features to minimise the danger caused by not being able to hear what's happening around you? Horn mirrors etc...

No it isnt.

Also, there was as study done recently that concluded that a driver in a car with the radio on can hear less than a cyclist with headphones. Was posted somewhere here IIRC.

You're perfectly entitled to your opinion, but please don't assume that because you feel strongly about something the facts support you.

tommythecat

Deedsie wrote: »

Eh because you can't hear the bus approach because of the headphones jammed in your ears? Cycle on the N11 between UCD and Dublin Bus, every morning there is a moron

Hearing the Bus or not hearing the bus isn't the point here. You are still a physical being on the road. What are you supposed to do? Where are you supposed to go if you hear the bus? If you are going to say "keep in" then that is more dangerous for you so no thanks. It's up to the bus driver to see what is ahead of him/her

Deedsie

tommythecat wrote: »

Headphones block out all sounds.

This is what you said. "All" sounds. I have never encountered a pair of headphones that are able to do that. Any i certainly don't buy cheap ones either.
Even the best ones will let some external sound through

Ugh, they distract you unnecessarily is the point. You can't hear as well as you would without them.

Such a tiresome place to discuss anything.

tommythecat

Deedsie wrote: »

Ugh, they distract you unnecessarily is the point. You can't hear as well as you would without them.

Such a tiresome place to discuss anything.

Well then make your point clearly and don't smear everything with half truths

Deedsie

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

Break it down for us here. If you're cycling on a road, say a meter out from the kerb, what are you claiming you're supposed to do if you hear or see a bus coming up behind you?

I always pull in as best as I can. I stop at the lights and let them take off first too. Depending on the section of road

CiboC

Deedsie wrote: »

Cycle on the N11 between UCD and Dublin Bus, every morning there is a moron

On that stretch the cyclist is in the bus lane because the cycle lane at that point is not only in dreadful condition but also far more dangerous to use.

The bike is perfectly entitled to be on the road, they don't have to vault out of the way of an onrushing bus just to get out of their way.

07Lapierre

Deedsie wrote: »

Ugh, they distract you unnecessarily is the point. You can't hear as well as you would without them.

Such a tiresome place to discuss anything.

Car horns are distracting. Especially when the driver is just trying to get the attention of his mate travelling in a car in the opposite direction!

Billboards with advertisement for Wonderbras are distracting! and I certainly hope they don't ban those!

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.mydaily.co.uk/media/2011/03/wonderbra-pa590aw310311.jpg

Deedsie

droidus wrote: »

No it isnt.

Also, there was as study done recently that concluded that a driver in a car with the radio on can hear less than a cyclist with headphones. Was posted somewhere here IIRC.

You're perfectly entitled to your opinion, but please don't assume that because you feel strongly about something the facts support you.

Send on the study, I never saw it. It's conclusions seem slanted though. Other factors surely need to be taken into account. Mirrors etc

I have happily agreed no study I know of supports me. My opinion that common sense would support me. It's in short supply unfortunately.

radia

Here is where someone has done comparative testing of what cyclists with headphones and drivers with/without music can here, complete with decibel measurements: https://rideonmagazine.com.au/an-ear-on-the-traffic/
Their conclusions:

1. A bike rider with ear-bud earphones playing music at a reasonable volume hears much more outside noise than a car driver, even when that driver has no music playing.
2. A bike rider with in-ear earphones playing music at a reasonable volume hears about the same outside noise as a car driver with no music playing, but more than a car driver playing music.
3. Ear-bud earphones set at a reasonable volume still allow riders to clearly hear the warning sounds of other riders.

tommythecat

Deedsie wrote: »

My opinion that common sense would support me. It's in short supply unfortunately.

Funny i feel exactly the same way

droidus

Deedsie wrote: »

My opinion that common sense would support me. It's in short supply unfortunately.

Lord save us from 'common sense'.

RainyDay

Deedsie wrote: »

No, but drivers wearing headphones should be.

What's the difference between driving with headphones and driving with a very loud stereo blaring?

Deedsie wrote: »

Eh because you can't hear the bus approach because of the headphones jammed in your ears? Cycle on the N11 between UCD and Dublin Bus, every morning there is a moron

Yes, every morning there is a moron, whether you have earphones in or not - so what difference do the earphones make again?

Chips Lovell

Deedsie wrote: »

I always pull in as best as I can. I stop at the lights and let them take off first too. Depending on the section of road

Nothing that wearing headphones prevents there. If the road widens to let faster traffic overtake, you look over your shoulder and pull in slightly if there's anyone behind you.

Next one. What is it about wearing headphones that makes someone "sway in and out of the cycle lane"?

check_six

Just to jump on a similar bandwagon to the h*-v* suppliers, I will now be marketing an audio soundscape for the conscientious cyclist.

The recording will come in a variety of formats (podcast stream, mp3, compact disk, minidisk, cassette tape, 8-track, vinyl disc, wax cylinder, etc.) and will comprise the sounds of rushing wind and a variety of approaching vehicles. The very latest technology will be used to provide a sterophonic doppler effect to the listener for maximum realism.

The rider will be encouraged to listen to this theater of sound at all times while in motion.

The intention with all this is of course to remind the conscientious cyclist that there are other vehicles on the road and that they should keep an eye out for them. Also, to remind them that even if you do hear a vehicle approaching from behind (imaginary or not), there is sneck-all you can do about it beyond your regular good road positioning.

Expect to see these recordings given out to every schoolchild in the country within the next six months!

Deedsie

tommythecat wrote: »

Funny i feel exactly the same way

You honestly feel, you putting on headphones improves your safety and the safety of others while cycling a bike?

Hopefully it will be legislated soon enough, the wind seems to blowing that direction anyway. In the lifetime of the 32nd Dáil I would imagine legislation will be drafted on this. Fingers crossed.

yannakis

Why are you focusing on how much a driver can hear? The whole set of involved senses is balanced off differently when you're sitting on the driver's seat and different when you're on a saddle.

One moves only arms and feet but has his head stable; the other moves the whole body.

Deedsie

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

Nothing that wearing headphones prevents there. If the road widens to let faster traffic overtake, you look over your shoulder and pull in slightly if there's anyone behind you.

Next one. What is it about wearing headphones that makes someone "sway in and out of the cycle lane"?

Not hearing them prevents doing that.

endagibson

droidus wrote: »

You're perfectly entitled to your opinion

Only if he doesn't want to be taken seriously. If he does, then some facts to back up an argument are needed. So far, I haven't seen any.

Deedsie

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

Nothing that wearing headphones prevents there. If the road widens to let faster traffic overtake, you look over your shoulder and pull in slightly if there's anyone behind you.

Next one. What is it about wearing headphones that makes someone "sway in and out of the cycle lane"?

I wish I effin knew, gob****es.

HivemindXX

Deedsie wrote: »

Ugh, they distract you unnecessarily is the point. You can't hear as well as you would without them.

Such a tiresome place to discuss anything.

You can't even keep your own story straight. I thought it was only completely blocking out a sense using these amazing imaginary headphones of yours that was the problem. The unnecessary distraction of listening to something like your car radio is fine.

You find it tiresome because we don't accept your nonsense at face value. We know your claim that headphone block out all road noise is rubbish. We know that there is no known connection between listening to headphones on the bike and increased risk. We know that claims that cyclists must not do anything to limit their attention whatsoever but motorists can listen to talk radio and play with their entertainment system because mirrors and driving licences is hypocrisy. We wonder rightfully even if we couldn't hear a car coming from behind exactly what we are supposed to do differently.

tommythecat

Deedsie wrote: »

You honestly feel, you putting on headphones improves your safety and the safety of others while cycling a bike?

No and no one here ever said that wearing headphones would improve your safety on a bike. Or is that not what you meant either?

I'm saying unless you are listening to music at earsplitting levels then there is plenty of external sound coming to your ears to help you navigate the roads.
In the city where i cycle there is always traffic coming up behind you so hearing really is of little benefit. Its a cacophony of noise. All your other senses are far more important, including the aforementioned "common sense".

Chips Lovell

Deedsie wrote: »

Not hearing them prevents doing that.

You can't rely on your ears to do that as you may not hear quieter vehicles behind you. You need to look over your right shoulder. And if you're pulling in a little, you need to check over your left in case another bike or motorbike are coming up inside you (some people actually do this).

option

I have found good earphones to run/cycle, from Böse, it is possible to hear music and be aware of the environment, very nice!

endagibson

The Government Chief Whip, Minister Paul Kehoe T.D., today, following Cabinet approval, announced the 2015 Autumn Winter Legislative Programme which continues to prioritise securing the ongoing economic recovery.

Speaking following the announcement Minister Kehoe said:

“The Government have today approved a Legislative Programme for Autumn Winter 2015 which sets out 34 Bills which will be published before the end of this year.”

“The Programme includes a number of Bills which will be central to the Government’s plans to secure the ongoing economic recovery. Budget 2016 will be an important feature of the Government’s economic plan and its legislative impact will include the Finance Bill, Appropriations Bill and Social Welfare & Pensions Bill. The Programme also includes Bills designed to support economic recovery including Companies (Accounting) Bill, Financial Services Miscellaneous Bill and the Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest (Amendment) Bill among others.”

“The Programme also outlines plans to introduce reforming legislation in areas such as Adoption, Heritage, Public Health & Alcohol and a number of Criminal Justice areas including Sexual Offences, Victims Rights & Corruption.”

“Over the last four and a half years in Government Fine Gael and Labour have worked together to focus on job creation and economic recovery while also introducing long overdue legislative reform across a number of Departments which were prioritised in the Programme for Government. Since March 2011 this Government has published 233 Bills and enacted 220 Acts.”

“Over the next number of months the Government will also progress a number of important pieces of legislation currently before the Oireachtas including the Marriage Bill, Criminal Justice (Burglary of Dwellings) Bill, Credit Guarantee (Amendment) Bill, Garda Síochána Policing Authority Bill, Assisted Decision Making (Capacity) Bill, Children’s First Bill among others.”

“The Government will continue to build on our record of legislative achievement and implement our Programme for Government commitments across a number of Departments right up to next year’s election.”

Hold on, what's that?

Deedsie wrote: »

Hopefully it will be legislated soon enough

We need to put all that to one side and tackle this non-issue that's having minimal impact beyond giving election seeking politicans a fit of the vapours.

Deedsie

endagibson wrote: »

Hold on, what's that?



We need to put all that to one side and tackle this non-issue that's having minimal impact beyond giving election seeking politicans a fit of the vapours.

wait a minute, politicians... Seeking to be elected. The very nerve. It will come in as some tag on legislation. It will hardly be policed by AGS so I wouldn't worry about it. Still I remain hopeful that it will be added at some stage.

beauf

Deedsie wrote: »

I remain hopeful, France have banned drivers and cyclists from using headphones. Irish politicians like to copy our European neighbours laws occasionally. Hopefully this law will be added to Irish legislation in the next round of road safety improvements.

Maybe they'll copy this one...
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-33773868

The Bishop Basher

Cycling can get pretty tedious and boring.

To alleviate this, a lot of people choose to wear headphones and listen to music and they do so accepting that there is a compromise to be made between listening to music and safety on the bike. ...

They won't admit that though...

Instead they will defy reason and common sense and come up with endless spurious arguments to defend their position.

Problem is, we all wear headphones so we have all personally witnessed the impact listening to music has on our ability to hear ambient noise. I use them all the time for meditation for that specific purpose, they block out ambient noise.

I don't have an issue with people taking an informed gamble on their own safety but unfortunately this is never acceptable when it comes to road safety as it impacts everyone.

For the record, I cycle and drive. I would never wear headphones doing either.

endagibson

YanisK wrote: »

Well.. since the current road system is based on interaction, your senses are expected to be alert. If you choose to limit that, inconsiderate I think is the right word.

YanisK wrote: »

...your hearing sense is vital.

YanisK wrote: »

I don't think you need your ears as much when driving car as when cycling...

YanisK wrote: »

We're not referring to careless drivers, but to cyclists who feel comfortable cycling with one sense less.

Deedsie wrote: »

It is not blocking out one of your sense completely though?

Deedsie wrote: »

Eh because you can't hear the bus approach...

Deedsie wrote: »

...blocking out one of your senses while travelling on the road will result in legislation...

Deedsie wrote: »

It's dangerous enough cycling in Dublin why would someone voluntarily make it more dangerous by reducing their awareness of what is going on around them.

Why do you two gentlemen hate deaf people so much?

yannakis

@Swanner, amen!

lennymc

What about deaf people? Should they be banned?

tommythecat

Swanner wrote: »

Cycling can get pretty tedious and boring.

To alleviate this, a lot of people choose to wear headphones and listen to music and they do so accepting that there is a compromise to be made between listening to music and safety on the bike. ...

They won't admit that though...

Instead they will defy reason and common sense and come up with endless spurious arguments to defend their position.

Problem is, we all wear headphones so we have all personally witnessed the impact listening to music has on our ability to hear ambient noise. I use them all the time for meditation for that specific purpose, they block out ambient noise.

I don't have an issue with people taking an informed gamble on their own safety but unfortunately this is never acceptable when it comes to road safety as it impacts everyone.

For the record, I cycle and drive. I would never wear headphones doing either.

Again let's be clear here. There are a myriad of different types of headphones the either "reduce" ambient noise or don't reduce it at all. None i have ever heard of "block out ambient noise".

So there will always be some external noise coming to your ears especially in the city.
So unless you are listening to music at ungodly levels you are going to hear everything you would have heard without the headphones at a slightly reduced level. You can still hear and react to it in the same fashion.

And again hearing is certainly not at the top of the priorities in terms of being safe on the road. Eyesight, self awareness are all far more important.
It is far from the same thing and I don't want to compare them but in your scenario are you saying that deaf people should not be allowed to cycle?

tomasrojo

Swanner wrote: »

For the record, I cycle and drive.

You are part of a small elite with intimate knowledge of both transport modes. Very occasionally, your type visits this forum, bestowing knowledge from our Heavenly Father.

The Bishop Basher

tommythecat wrote: »

Again let's be clear here. There are a myriad of different types of headphones the either "reduce" ambient noise or don't reduce it at all. None i have ever heard of "block out ambient noise".

So there will always be some external noise coming to your ears especially in the city.
So unless you are listening to music at ungodly levels you are going to hear everything you would have heard without the headphones at a slightly reduced level. You can still hear and react to it in the same fashion.

And again hearing is certainly not at the top of the priorities in terms of being safe on the road. Eyesight, self awareness are all far more important.
It is far from the same thing and I don't want to compare them but in your scenario are you saying that deaf people should not be allowed to cycle?

Agreed. I have about 5 pairs. The more expensive ones do a better job of eliminating ambient noise. They are even marketed as such. I'm not sure how this supports your argument though ?

And the deaf argument is just nonsense. We make all sorts of allowances for people with physical or mental disabilities. It's not ideal for a deaf person to cycle but we don't regulate against them as we also seek to protect their rights and freedoms as an individual. So we accept the compromise and move on.

Now if they decide they'd like to be an airline pilot they will find that the compromise has tipped the other way and supersedes their civil liberties.

Chips Lovell

What do you think is more likely?

Knowing something is dangerous and doing it anyway? Or doing something because they you don't judge it to be dangerous?

tomasrojo

Ok, so we're in agreement that people piloting aircraft shouldn't wear headphones.

tommythecat

Swanner wrote: »

Agreed. I have about 5 pairs. The more expensive ones do a better job of eliminating ambient noise. They are even marketed as such. I'm not sure how this supports your argument though ?

And the deaf argument is just nonsense. We make all sorts of allowances for people with physical or mental disabilities. It's not ideal for a deaf person to cycle but we don't regulate against them as we also seek to protect their rights and freedoms as an individual. So we accept the compromise and move on.

Now if they decide they'd like to be an airline pilot they will find that the compromise has tipped the other way and supersedes their civil liberties.

Read my second paragraph again. I explained why it supports it.

So are you saying that Deaf people on bikes are unsafe or safe?

lennymc

So positive discrimination?

beauf

tommythecat wrote: »

Again let's be clear here. There are a myriad of different types of headphones the either "reduce" ambient noise or don't reduce it at all. None i have ever heard of "block out ambient noise"....

Some have a setting for, bus, train, office

tommythecat

beauf wrote: »

Some have a setting for, bus, train, office

I know that. They still only "reduce" the ambient noise. They can never "block" or cancel it. That was the point

beauf

Swanner wrote: »

...For the record, I cycle and drive. I would never wear headphones doing either.

Would you use a handsfree or listen to music, radio in any of the following?

Driving, cycling or walking.

The Bishop Basher

tommythecat wrote: »

Read my second paragraph again. I explained why it supports it.

But it doesn't support it. Your point is that many headphones don't really block out ambient noise and are therefore perfectly safe to use. I agree, but would also point out that many headphones are designed and marketed to block out ambient noise and therefore are not safe to use.

So essentially we're in agreement. Problem then is how do you regulate who wears which headphones ? Now maybe there's a workable solution to that. Maybe we should just ban them altogether. Who knows ? I'm not suggesting I have the answer.

tommythecat wrote: »

So are you saying that Deaf people on bikes are unsafe or safe?

I'm saying it is preferable to have full use of our available senses when driving a car or cycling a bike on the road.

A deaf person has no choice and on that basis we don't discriminate either way. Everyone else has a choice as to whether they use their hearing or not. Some of us believe that shouldn't be optional.

beauf

tommythecat wrote: »

I know that. They still only "reduce" the ambient noise. They can never "block" or cancel it. That was the point

Maybe my hearing isn't great. But I find IEM's and NC earphones do exactly for that me. I actually have a pair in the office that aren't as good so I can hear the phone.

I can't remember any time some noise has alerted me to some danger on the bike. Not in the city commuting. On a quieter road, in the country, I assume you'd hear a car coming, if there was no wind. I wouldn't use earphone when cycling on the road, but I don't think its anything like as useful as is being suggested.

Its another rule that won't be enforced other than as a token gesture with no meaningful impact. Like motorists on the mobile, or speed limits. Or cyclists with no lights.

beauf

Swanner wrote: »

...I'm saying it is preferable to have full use of our available senses when driving a car or cycling a bike on the road....

Should ban all distractions in the car then also, radio/handsfree etc. Eating, smoking, etc.

CatFromHue

I find this whole argument incredibly annoying as the people who cycle recklessly with headphones on also cycle recklessly with them off. It's not the headphones that are the problem.

07Lapierre

beauf wrote: »

Should ban all distractions in the car then also, radio/handsfree etc. Eating, smoking, etc.

The Mother-In-Law! PLEASE

tomasrojo

beauf wrote: »

Its another rule that won't be enforced other than as a token gesture with no meaningful impact. Like motorists on the mobile, or speed limits. Or cyclists with no lights.

Don't think you're saying it is a rule, but just to be clear: you can wear earphones/headphones if you like while cycling, provided you aren't "inconsiderate", whatever that means.

The Bishop Basher

beauf wrote: »

Should ban all distractions in the car then also, radio/handsfree etc. Eating, smoking, etc.

Eating and smoking I would agree with. However I don't hear other traffic when in the car so it's irrelevant. I have mirrors to compensate. That said, it can be a distraction especially when trying to find a location or in fast moving city traffic. In situations like that I always turn it down.

tommythecat

beauf wrote: »

Maybe my hearing isn't great. But I find IEM's and NC earphones do exactly for that me. I actually have a pair in the office that aren't as good so I can hear the phone.

They scientifically can't "block" ambient noise entirely. Most of them use phase cancellation to do it and there will always be changes in the environment or the position of your head to make it impossible. They can however lower it significantly if they are a good pair such as yours. But signal sounds such as beeps and voices, phones will always poke through.

tomasrojo

tommythecat wrote: »

They scientifically can't "block" ambient noise entirely. Most of them use phase cancellation to do it and there will always be changes in the environment or the position of your head to make it impossible. They can however lower it significantly if they are a good pair such as yours. But signal sounds such as beeps and voices, phones will always poke through.

Yes, you can hear people talking better when wearing noise-cancellation headphones. Sudden noises would stand out better if you were using them? (Without music, I mean.)

tomasrojo

Swanner wrote: »

Eating and smoking I would agree with. However I don't hear other traffic when in the car so it's irrelevant. I have mirrors to compensate. That said, it can be a distraction especially when trying to find a location or in fast moving city traffic. In situations like that I always turn it down.

The mirrors aren't there to compensate for your listening to the radio.

Anyway, why don't you just leave it off altogether, maximising your safety in all scenarios. I don't have an issue with people taking an informed gamble on their own safety ...

Swanner wrote: »

but unfortunately this is never acceptable when it comes to road safety as it impacts everyone.