Boundary Extension for City?

Michael Kavanagh

robtri wrote: »

no.. what will waterford city do for the area...

cause all waterford city supporters here go on about is GAA crap and saying KK have done nothing for the area,

so what will they do?
what amenities/services will they provide for the residents of the area

strange that no one can answer this


Dublin extends into numerous counties and it works quite well yet no need to change boundaries...

The way it is with Waterford when you have nothing grab the nearest prospect you get your hands on that's worth something.

Michael Kavanagh

azimuth17 wrote: »

The tone of Mr Kavanagh's posts suggests he is mired in a 19th century vision of manufacturing industry as all hammers, soot, shovels and dirt. Apple employ nearly 6500 in Cork in manufacturing and R&D. Genzyme, now Sanofi have invested nearly €600 million and rising in their specialised biotech plant at Old Kilmeaden Road in Waterford. Mr Kavanagh has probably never even seen it.....or the adjacent new WEST Pharma plant. Should Waterford not have competed for these industries? Throwing verbal and written stones at Waterford because you don't like a proposed boundary extension is useful to no one.

You idiot did I mention any of those industries in Waterford

BorneTobyWilde

I don't get it. Why would it ever be right for one county to try steal land off another.

Aquos76

Michael Kavanagh wrote: »

You idiot did I mention any of those industries in Waterford

Keep it civil now, I know some people are put out over this report, but at the end of the day, that's all it is, a report. There's absolutely no guarantee that this will even happen.

Deiseen

Michael Kavanagh wrote: »

azimuth17 wrote: »

The tone of Mr Kavanagh's posts suggests he is mired in a 19th century vision of manufacturing industry as all hammers, soot, shovels and dirt. Apple employ nearly 6500 in Cork in manufacturing and R&D. Genzyme, now Sanofi have invested nearly €600 million and rising in their specialised biotech plant at Old Kilmeaden Road in Waterford. Mr Kavanagh has probably never even seen it.....or the adjacent new WEST Pharma plant. Should Waterford not have competed for these industries? Throwing verbal and written stones at Waterford because you don't like a proposed boundary extension is useful to no one.

You idiot did I mention any of those industries in Waterford

Did something happen you down in Waterford that you have this attitude? Maybe you didn't get a job in one of the many decent Pharma companies we have here? or maybe you didn't get accepted into the W.I.T?
or possibly some cultured Waterford beauty rejected your brutish advances and smacked you over the head with something hard.

The final one would explain a lot actually, especially for a man coming on here calling people "idiots"...

Suryavarman

robtri wrote: »

The roads in Ferrybank under WCC control are in a worse state...

This is so false it can't be anything other than a lie.

Irishlad2014

Michael Kavanagh wrote: »

robtri wrote: »

no.. what will waterford city do for the area...

cause all waterford city supporters here go on about is GAA crap and saying KK have done nothing for the area,

so what will they do?
what amenities/services  will they provide for the residents of the area

strange that no one can answer this


Dublin extends into numerous counties and it works quite well yet no need to change boundaries...

The  way  it  is  with  Waterford  when you  have  nothing  grab  the  nearest  prospect you  get your  hands  on that's  worth  something.

Can you elaborate on this? or is it another 3 sheets to the wind statement that means nothing?

Irishlad2014

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

I don't get it. Why would it ever be right for one county to try steal land off another.

You will have to read the report. Its quite interesting reading and makes perfect scene. Hope this helps

road_high

Suryavarman wrote: »

Having a university in WAterford provides a lot more benefit to the region than waiting decades for Carlow to get up to the standard needed for Waterford and Carlow to have a a joint university.

Waterford is the only urban area in the Southeast that is big enough to drive economic growth in the region. Everywhere else is far too small.

You're deluded if you think this. Waterford is still tiny in relative terms, and consistently one of the slowest growing in the SE. It'll never be a driver like say Galway is, it's a bigger Dundalk.
Dublin is the main driver of growth in this region, all the areas nearest there have grown far quicker. All recent census have shown this.

road_high

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

but when those 19,500 don't live in the area, who are they to say it's best for the area, their opinion is just as valid as the people in charge of the review in that case.

Are you from the exact area? Because you seem well able to give your tuppence worth on the matter.

Michael Kavanagh

Irishlad2014 wrote: »

Can you elaborate on this? or is it another 3 sheets to the wind statement that means nothing?

Unemployment the highest in the south east, shops closed everywhere even Waterford people are shopping in kilkenny now it must have the highest murder rate of the region. It had plenty of factories years ago that were closed down due to strikes etc

Irishlad2014

Michael Kavanagh wrote: »

Irishlad2014 wrote: »

Can you elaborate on this? or is it another 3 sheets to the wind statement that means nothing?

Unemployment  the  highest  in  the  south  east, shops  closed  everywhere  even  Waterford  people  are  shopping  in  kilkenny  now  it  must  have the  highest  murder  rate of  the  region. It  had  plenty  of  factories years  ago  that were closed  down  due  to strikes etc

There has been loads of shops opened and are planned to open in Waterford in the coming months, the Michael St Shopping Centre, the Apple Market and redevelopment of City Square, and let me tell you there are plenty of Kilkenny people come to Waterford to shop and seek employment. As for the rest of your comment - you have no idea what you are talking about.

BBM77

Michael Kavanagh wrote: »

Unemployment the highest in the south east, shops closed everywhere even Waterford people are shopping in kilkenny now it must have the highest murder rate of the region. It had plenty of factories years ago that were closed down due to strikes etc

So clearly you know absolutely nothing about Waterford and what is happening here. You are just throwing your toys out of the pram because you’re not getting your way in that a ridiculously out dated boundary is being proposed to be changed.

azimuth17

The independent Boundary Commission has made its recommendation to return the historic boundaries of Waterford city. This is widely covered on Facebook. What seems obvious to me is, despite the protestations of road-high, Michael Kavanagh and Robtri that the real subtext and rationale for their line or argument is a fear that Waterford city is and will be bigger and more important than Kilkenny? The point is being deliberately missed that the whole point of the extension was to enable Waterford city and help it perform the kind of regional role that road-high denies. His answer seems to be not to have any regional centre in the south east(because it wont be Kilkenny) and instead accept the bloated expansion of Dublin across Leinster. Unemployment is indeed high in Waterford but also very high in counties Kilkenny and Wexford. It has declined rapidly across the region in past year though. I believe that this is because the region continually devours itself in intra regional squabbles and we do not present a united front in pursuit of things like a university. The definition of stupidity is to do the same thing over and over again and expect a different result. Sorry that some posters want to vomit up their resentment at what the commission has recommended.By the way, Michael Kavanagh, planning applications for the Ardree Hotel were always made to the two planning authorities.

jmcc

Didn't FG's John Paul Phelan (good Waterford name) once say that Waterford's expansion into Ferrybank was like Germany's Lebensraumt (sic) takeover of Poland? Perhaps KK county council will be proposing that KK will be twinned with Warsaw now?

The reality is that dominant cities in a region will always expand outwards over time. (Galway is not a true city in this respect as it is essentially a small town with villages stuck on by council boundary landgrabs.) It would be interesting to see an employment breakdown for the proposed addition to Waterford. It might show that the commercial focus of the area is Waterford city rather than KK due to a gradual suburbanisation process.

Regards...jmcc

jmcc

road_high wrote: »

Wonder will waterfords apparent new BFF help divert finds from CUH to fund a Cath lab and from UCC to WIT now that he's discovered a new found fetish for all things blue and white?

Perhaps there is a General Election on the way?

Regards...jmcc

Max Powers

robtri wrote: »

again this does not address anything WCC will do for people of the area...

The roads in Ferrybank under WCC control are in a worse state...

retail strategy ... really cause Waterford so have that under control with their booming city centre... ohhhhh wait!!

Agree access services will be easier and madness that people in that area need to go to KK to do things.. mind u I cant remember the last time i needed to go to city hall for anything...everything can be done online or over phone these days.. but I do see the point..

i know plenty of waterford people living in Dublin city... who live there work there, bring up their kids there but if u ask them where they from they proudly say Waterford, why should people of KK be given the same options..

Personally I cant see why the boundary needs to be changed, WCC and KK should be made work together for the good of the area.
as stated before Dublin has sprawled into numerous counties and there is no need to change the boundary and yet it works, works very well ...

Why does Waterford need it? they have plenty of land around the rest of the city... my opinion is that this is all about money and political seats .. anyone believes that WCC will spend the windfall of cash any better that KK have on the area is sadly deluded...

You asked for examples of kk ignoring the area and what Waterford plans/would like to do... I gave you just a few and you threw them all out of your pram in a unfounded way, for e.g. you say the kk side approaches to city are just as good as ones under Waterford control, clearly you are wrong there, just look at the state of m9 to Sally park, overgrown, loads of litter, zero attempts to improve look, you get the Waterford section by train station and Waterford council have flower boxes out doing their best.at end of day, if Waterford council did bare minimum work to extended area, it would be more than kk council have done.another thing Waterford council have done in recent years is put a massive water treatment plant over there which kk areas use.

Max Powers

Michael Kavanagh wrote: »

Unemployment the highest in the south east, shops closed everywhere even Waterford people are shopping in kilkenny now it must have the highest murder rate of the region. It had plenty of factories years ago that were closed down due to strikes etc

Loving that, you can hear the vitriol and hatred in that, it was all why can't we cooperate a while back with the against side, the mask slips though...no interest in cooperating, in fact the opposite, hinder is aim.

jmcc

Odd that there is no discussion of this in the KK forum (http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=481) and all the KK posters are here in the Waterford forum discussing it. Do you KK posters do irony?

Regards...jmcc

Irishlad2014

jmcc wrote: »

Odd that there is no discussion of this in the KK forum (http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=481) and all the KK posters are here in the Waterford forum discussing it. Do you KK posters do irony?

Regards...jmcc

The plan is working Comrade! They already belong to Waterford City on Boards!!

Cabaal

jmcc wrote: »

Odd that there is no discussion of this in the KK forum (http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=481) and all the KK posters are here in the Waterford forum discussing it. Do you KK posters do irony?

Honestly I think the lack of discussion reflects that most people in County Kilkenny simply don't care too much about it.

Ok there are people like McGuinness and Aylward saying silly things like its an "Act Of War" or “They'll do it over my dead body". But they certainly don't reflect everyone in Kilkenny or even a majority. Even the fact that the Kilkenny People is running such a story I'd take with a tonne of salt.

Aylward is just trying to look like the big man as he's elected in South Kilkenny so he'll say anything he thinks goes well with people in the area and McGuinness will say anything that he thinks will get him votes from some people.

You have to remember that McGuinness at least didn't want to upset rural voters so much that he voted no in the marriage equality vote in 2015. He's also FF but all his election posters have that fact pretty well hidden and he really just does his own thing.

Personally I think the people that should have the say in this are the people living in the area that will be effected.

Jamie2k9

road_high wrote: »

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

but when those 19,500 don't live in the area, who are they to say it's best for the area, their opinion is just as valid as the people in charge of the review in that case.

Are you from the exact area? Because you seem well able to give your tuppence worth on the matter.

No, either are you....

Like I said 19,500 for a area that will impact 4,500....you cannoy deny that most who submitted are not from the area either so why is their view more important than mine for example?

Max Powers

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

No, either are you....

Like I said 19,500 for a area that will impact 4,500....you cannoy deny that most who submitted are not from the area either so why is their view more important than mine for example?

Heard fella on wlr say about 40 of them were originally written, the rest photocopies...Probably with the cat and dogs name on em too.compete nonsense, and that aylward lad on apoplectic saying undemocratic, war, etc..pathetic.

jmcc

Max Powers wrote: »

Heard fella on wlr say about 40 of them were originally written, the rest photocopies...Probably with the cat and dogs name on em too.compete nonsense, and that aylward lad on apoplectic saying undemocratic, war, etc..pathetic.

So will Aylward lose his seat at the next GE due to this boundary change?

Regards...jmcc

Deiseen

road_high wrote: »

Suryavarman wrote: »

Having a university in WAterford provides a lot more benefit to the region than waiting decades for Carlow to get up to the standard needed for Waterford and Carlow to have a a joint university.

Waterford is the only urban area in the Southeast that is big enough to drive economic growth in the region. Everywhere else is far too small.

You're deluded if you think this. Waterford is still tiny in relative terms, and consistently one of the slowest growing in the SE. It'll never be a driver like say Galway is, it's a bigger Dundalk.
Dublin is the main driver of growth in this region, all the areas nearest there have grown far quicker. All recent census have shown this.

If you take IDA jobs alone, then Waterford has almost more jobs than the other counties in the South East combined. If this does not point towards a city that is an regional economic driver then I don't know what is.

It's also interesting to note that Kilkenny has the least amount of IDA related jobs, even less than Carlow which has about 50% of the population of KK. I wonder why this is?

Cabaal

jmcc wrote: »

So will Aylward lose his seat at the next GE due to this boundary change?

Regards...jmcc

Doubt it, Ferrybank area is hardly his big stomping grounds.
His area would be Mullinavat, Callan etc

The same old people will continue to vote for him, after all they voted for his brother.

BBM77

Anybody have a link to the actual report? Looked on the boundary review website and could not find anything.

Jambo

BBM77 wrote: »

Anybody have a link to the actual report? Looked on the boundary review website and could not find anything.

http://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/default/files/publications/files/report_of_the_waterford_boundary_review_committee.pdf

TheQuietFella

Deiseen wrote: »

If you take IDA jobs alone, then Waterford has almost more jobs than the other counties in the South East combined. If this does not point towards a city that is an regional economic driver then I don't know what is.

It's also interesting to note that Kilkenny has the least amount of IDA related jobs, even less than Carlow which has about 50% of the population of KK. I wonder why this is?

Because their CC don't feel the need to when FOR DECADES they have

bravely gone forward to other counties to rape a living from other natives!

BBM77

TheQuietFella wrote: »

Because their CC don't feel the need to when FOR DECADES they have

bravely gone forward to other counties to rape a living from other natives!

Ah come on this is just ridiculous. There is nothing wrong with Kilkenny people working in Waterford.

Parachutes

Is this a done deal at this stage?

Professey Chin

Parachutes wrote: »

Is this a done deal at this stage?

Nope. Just a recommendation. Considering how little recommendation reports mean in Irish politics it'll probably get thrown out somewhere along the way

azimuth17

People should remember that this is a statutory independent commission recommendation. If it is included in the upcoming new Spatial Strategy which proposes to support regional cities like Waterford, it will be very hard not to implement it. But then, there is always Fianna Fail. Sinn Fein extremely quiet on the issue also. Less vitriol around the issue would be helpful.

Cabaal

TheQuietFella wrote: »

bravely gone forward to other counties to rape a living from other natives!

:rolleyes:
This is the type of unhelpful commentary that is really equal to Alyward and his "act of war" nonsense.

Claiming somebody from one county getting another job in another county is raping jobs from natives is just silly, unhelpful and using emotive and offense language for no good reason.

At the end of the day the best person gets the job. If that person is from Waterford, Kilkenny, Carlow, Dublin or whatever then so be it.
If you have a problem with the best person getting a job then uptrain, because its your problem and not there's.

I worked in Waterford for 10 years and used to hear that "coming here taking our jobs" crap now and then. Utter childish crap.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUTnNKhF-EU

Deiseen

Cabaal wrote: »

TheQuietFella wrote: »

bravely gone forward to other counties to rape a living from other natives!

:rolleyes:
This is the type of unhelpful commentary that is really equal to Alyward and his "act of war" nonsense.

Claiming somebody from one county getting another job in another county is raping jobs from natives is just silly, unhelpful and using emotive and offense language for no good reason.

At the end of the day the best person gets the job. If that person is from Waterford, Kilkenny, Carlow, Dublin or whatever then so be it.
If you have a problem with the best person getting a job then uptrain, because its your problem and not there's.

I worked in Waterford for 10 years and used to hear that "coming here taking our jobs" crap now and then. Utter childish crap.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUTnNKhF-EU

Think he was joking boy.....

Max Powers

Deiseen wrote: »

Think he was joking boy.....

Stupid joke.

Michael Kavanagh

azimuth17 wrote: »

The independent Boundary Commission has made its recommendation to return the historic boundaries of Waterford city. This is widely covered on Facebook. What seems obvious to me is, despite the protestations of road-high, Michael Kavanagh and Robtri that the real subtext and rationale for their line or argument is a fear that Waterford city is and will be bigger and more important than Kilkenny? The point is being deliberately missed that the whole point of the extension was to enable Waterford city and help it perform the kind of regional role that road-high denies. His answer seems to be not to have any regional centre in the south east(because it wont be Kilkenny) and instead accept the bloated expansion of Dublin across Leinster. Unemployment is indeed high in Waterford but also very high in counties Kilkenny and Wexford. It has declined rapidly across the region in past year though. I believe that this is because the region continually devours itself in intra regional squabbles and we do not present a united front in pursuit of things like a university. The definition of stupidity is to do the same thing over and over again and expect a different result. Sorry that some posters want to vomit up their resentment at what the commission has recommended.By the way, Michael Kavanagh, planning applications for the Ardree Hotel were always made to the two planning authorities.

This is not about who is more important that is a Waterford opinion if you wont to see property prices in kilkenny, Waterford that shows where people want to live where house prices are stronger in kilkenny . I must go down to Waterford take over your house see how you react, it would take me as long to go to Waterford as it would to go to Dublin I don't have to use the M9 which somebody famously said here it was built because of Waterford it is the most less used motorway in Ireland.

Michael Kavanagh

Deiseen wrote: »

Did something happen you down in Waterford that you have this attitude? Maybe you didn't get a job in one of the many decent Pharma companies we have here? or maybe you didn't get accepted into the W.I.T?
or possibly some cultured Waterford beauty rejected your brutish advances and smacked you over the head with something hard.

The final one would explain a lot actually, especially for a man coming on here calling people "idiots"...

What a childish answer you can see why I said what I said

robtri

azimuth17 wrote: »

The independent Boundary Commission has made its recommendation to return the historic boundaries of Waterford city. This is widely covered on Facebook. What seems obvious to me is, despite the protestations of road-high, Michael Kavanagh and Robtri that the real subtext and rationale for their line or argument is a fear that Waterford city is and will be bigger and more important than Kilkenny? The point is being deliberately missed that the whole point of the extension was to enable Waterford city and help it perform the kind of regional role that road-high denies. His answer seems to be not to have any regional centre in the south east(because it wont be Kilkenny) and instead accept the bloated expansion of Dublin across Leinster. Unemployment is indeed high in Waterford but also very high in counties Kilkenny and Wexford. It has declined rapidly across the region in past year though. I believe that this is because the region continually devours itself in intra regional squabbles and we do not present a united front in pursuit of things like a university. The definition of stupidity is to do the same thing over and over again and expect a different result. Sorry that some posters want to vomit up their resentment at what the commission has recommended.By the way, Michael Kavanagh, planning applications for the Ardree Hotel were always made to the two planning authorities.

What protestations?

I have asked simple questions and not been answered. reading this thread its not about whats best for Waterford, it is bashing KK and saying how crap they have dealt with South KK and that it will be wonderous under WCC..

Considering how badly Waterford city is, I would say its not a promising prospect for most people living in the effect area's.

this thread is a litany of we are better than thou KK people....

Max Powers

robtri wrote: »

What protestations?

I have asked simple questions and not been answered. reading this thread its not about whats best for Waterford, it is bashing KK and saying how crap they have dealt with South KK and that it will be wonderous under WCC..

Considering how badly Waterford city is, I would say its not a promising prospect for most people living in the effect area's.

this thread is a litany of we are better than thou KK people....

Your questions have been answered numerous times, you didn't like the answers so you gave a poor response dismissing nearly all in an ill attempt to deny the positives for the area and bad mouthing Waterford, which is where the against side show their real thoughts, contempt for Waterford and region.

Max Powers

Michael Kavanagh wrote: »

This is not about who is more important that is a Waterford opinion if you wont to see property prices in kilkenny, Waterford that shows where people want to live where house prices are stronger in kilkenny . I must go down to Waterford take over your house see how you react, it would take me as long to go to Waterford as it would to go to Dublin I don't have to use the M9 which somebody famously said here it was built because of Waterford it is the most less used motorway in Ireland.

Pretty sure that is incorrect about m9, saw stats from nra showing busier than other motorways some time ago but hey doesn't fit in with bad mouthing Waterford vitriol.

Deiseen

Max Powers wrote: »

robtri wrote: »

What protestations?

I have asked simple questions and not been answered. reading this thread its not about whats best for Waterford, it is bashing KK and saying how crap they have dealt with South KK and that it will be wonderous under WCC..

Considering how badly Waterford city is, I would say its not a promising prospect for most people living in the effect area's.

this thread is a litany of we are better than thou KK people....

Your questions have been answered numerous times, you didn't like the answers so you gave a poor response dismissing nearly all in an ill attempt to deny the positives for the area and bad mouthing Waterford, which is where the against side show their real thoughts, contempt for Waterford and region.

All the Waterford people's posts are about the area in question. All the Kilkenny posts involve Waterford bashing. You have lads coming down, who appear to have the intellect and literacy skills of a 6 year old, coming on and spitting venom. It's actually fairly entertaining.

Deiseen

Max Powers wrote: »

Michael Kavanagh wrote: »

This is not about who is more important that is a Waterford opinion if you wont to see property prices in kilkenny, Waterford that shows where people want to live where house prices are stronger in kilkenny . I must go down to Waterford take over your house see how you react, it would take me as long to go to Waterford as it would to go to Dublin I don't have to use the M9 which somebody famously said here it was built because of Waterford it is the most less used motorway in Ireland.

Pretty sure that is incorrect about m9, saw stats from nra showing busier than other motorways some time ago but hey doesn't fit in with bad mouthing Waterford vitriol.

You are right here, saw the same stats. Won't change their minds thou. Also if the motorway is underused then that affects Kilkenny more than us!!! But sure there you go.

Michael Kavanagh

Deiseen wrote: »

If you take IDA jobs alone, then Waterford has almost more jobs than the other counties in the South East combined. If this does not point towards a city that is an regional economic driver then I don't know what is.

It's also interesting to note that Kilkenny has the least amount of IDA related jobs, even less than Carlow which has about 50% of the population of KK. I wonder why this is?

Why then when the downturn came that the likes of Waterford, Carlow were so badly hit , kilkenny was thriving

Michael Kavanagh

Deiseen wrote: »

You are right here, saw the same stats. Won't change their minds thou. Also if the motorway is underused then that affects Kilkenny more than us!!! But sure there you go.

Why was it proposed to toll it then a couple of years ago

Aquos76

Im wondering just how many kilkenny people on here are actually that bothered by all of this anyway, sure there isn't even a thread on it in the Kilkenny forum.

kayaksurfbum

Aquos76 wrote: »

Im wondering just how many kilkenny people on here are actually that bothered by all of this anyway, sure there isn't even a thread on it in the Kilkenny forum.

Very True. I spoke to a few customers of mine in KK and they couldn't give a crap about ferrybank. They consider it Waterford city anyway.

azimuth17

"All the Waterford people's posts are about the area in question. All the Kilkenny posts involve Waterford bashing. You have lads coming down, who appear to have the intellect and literacy skills of a 6 year old, coming on and spitting venom. It's actually fairly entertaining."

Its hard not to agree with this summary from Deiseen. Fanaticism of the type visible here from some obviously KK posters hides fear. I worked in Kilkenny for a time and most people there could not give a toss about Ferrybank or anywhere south of Ballyhale for that matter. South of Mullinavat was "Waterford"!

kayaksurfbum

I could have a guess that most of the submissions aposing the boundery were spouting the waterford is sh1te KK is great crap. If that was the case they would not be considered in the report at all! Therefore 19000 unconstructive submissions in the shredder!

robtri

Max Powers wrote: »

Your questions have been answered numerous times, you didn't like the answers so you gave a poor response dismissing nearly all in an ill attempt to deny the positives for the area and bad mouthing Waterford, which is where the against side show their real thoughts, contempt for Waterford and region.

take ur chip off ur shoulder, the they are all against us Card... it gets boring after the first 500 times it is used around here

No where has anyone stated what WCC will do for the area that KK have not done..
WCC in their submission havent even explained what they will do...

if you actually read this thread it is mainly Waterford bashing KK.. by a long way...

I see nothing wrong with WCC running the area... or at least being very heavily involved. and KK should not have deciding vote on the area especially in relation to services and planning. Rates collected should be spent on the area in an agreed budget.