Boundary Extension for City?

Deiseen

azimuth17 wrote: »

The posts from Road_High suggest that people "up north" near the Kilkenny county town don't think about Waterford that much, although the number of submissions that originated in every form from that area would contradict that. It is also patently obvious that Kilkenny (the county town) does not have another local authority clamped right up against its front door. Brian Cody suggested that rivalry should be confined to the sports field and I agree , but flag waving populists like Phil Hogan are not afraid to use the GAA analogy when it suits them. Road-high proves the adage that when not argued into a point of view , its hard to be argued out of it. No matter what anyone says or shows or thinks or proves the rebuttal is always the same ,usually coupled with disparaging remark(s) about Waterford city on any topic you care to choose. The historic boundaries (map) were there for centuries and the independent commission proposed a return to essentially those boundaries. Regardless of how the city might develop on that side of the river in the future, and it is inevitable courtesy of the massive investment in servicing land via the Waterford Waste Water Treatment facility in Gorteens, I don't see another boundary extension being feasible. AND remember, the Port of Waterford and its annual millions in rates (unspent in south Kilkenny) has been gifted to Co Kilkenny.

Why was the port moved to Kilkenny without a fight before does anyone know? But also, if it was on the other side of the river then wasn't it always in Kilkenny?

Deiseen

road_high wrote: »

Deiseen wrote: »

It certainly matters when hurling minnows like Waterford, who are also trying to take your land, come up to your turf and beat you.

They'll say they don't care about the league but will cry themselves to sleep tonight.

Remind me again, which of Kilkenny's 36 All Ireland's were won in early February?
Seen as you brought it up

Definitely not last year's one anyway....

Harry Palmr

road_high wrote: »

Because Kilkenny was never spoon food or molly coddled with IDA jobs like Waterford has been. And there's not a large working class population for factory type work.

Spoon fed? really? the IDA closed the business end of the Waterford/South East office about 30 years ago. Now it's a fax machine operation as far as I know. The states interest in the (declining) industrial base of Waterford is little more than zero.

Deiseen

Harry Palmr wrote: »

road_high wrote: »

Because Kilkenny was never spoon food or molly coddled with IDA jobs like Waterford has been. And there's not a large working class population for factory type work.

Spoon fed? really? the IDA closed the business end of the Waterford/South East office about 30 years ago. Now it's a fax machine operation as far as I know. The states interest in the (declining) industrial base of Waterford is little more than zero.

He's right to be agrieved about the lack of IDA jobs in Kilkenny but should not direct this anger towards Waterford. I've pointed out previously that even Carlow has more IDA jobs than KK but still hasn't got a great deal either nor has Waterford for its size. So this is a south eastern issue.

Once again it comes down to a few factors and one of them is the University. Our third level participation is lower than other regions and of the people that do go to third level, they go to other regions to study and don't come back. Hardly an ideal region for a company to set up in is it, knowing they won't be able to find enough qualified staff the fill the vacancies.

That's why we don't get the Dells, the Intels, the HPs etc.

azimuth17

The anti-Waterford tone of the road-high post about lack of IDA jobs is quite unfair. This is a national issue and was really made worse in 1995/6 when the IDA regional manager for the south east was removed from Waterford. This hurt us all. The south eats with approx 11% of the national population has nothing like 11% of the national IDA jobs. Kilkenny was spoon-fed with one huge IDA investment called Fieldcrest on the Dublin Road, which failed spectacularly. The IDA position generally is that it is access to jobs that matters and anyone who sees the thousands of KK and WX cars around IDA sites in Waterford will understand that.
As an aside, I would like to ask Road-High if he supports 24/7 cardiology at UHW for the 500,000 people in the south east?

azimuth17

@Deiseen. The Port of Waterford is the entire harbour from Hook Head to Great Island to Carrick on Suir and encompasses the shores of Wexford, Kilkenny, Waterford and a bit of south Tipp. Port was constrained for expansion in the city, which all relates to the same issue we are discussing.

Deiseen

azimuth17 wrote: »

@Deiseen. The Port of Waterford is the entire harbour from Hook Head to Great Island to Carrick on Suir and encompasses the shores of Wexford, Kilkenny, Waterford and a bit of south Tipp. Port was constrained for expansion in the city, which all relates to the same issue we are discussing.

I understand that but surely something could have be done rather than gift it to another county?

azimuth17

Deiseen wrote: »

I understand that but surely something could have be done rather than gift it to another county?

The port always saw itself as operating facilities in the whole harbour, like the jetty at the Paper Mills in Grannagh, the Oil Depot at Fiddown, the power station at Great island as well as traditional facilities in the city. They have an overview of the river as an economic generator. The silliness of planning for the Belview area being done from Kilkenny is beyond comment. Its an Irish joke.

Squidvicious

azimuth17 wrote: »

The port always saw itself as operating facilities in the whole harbour, like the jetty at the Paper Mills in Grannagh, the Oil Depot at Fiddown, the power station at Great island as well as traditional facilities in the city. They have an overview of the river as an economic generator. The silliness of planning for the Belview area being done from Kilkenny is beyond comment. Its an Irish joke.

I assume that the port is in Belview for sound geographical reasons. I would assume that there were simply no suitable sites on the south side of the river. In addition, having a port on the North side makes it a bit more accessible to most of the rest of the country.

I'm curious about the bolded bit? Has KKCC done anything wrong as regards the port? Genuine question.

azimuth17

@Squidvicious. Its silly in the same manner as having to make two planning applications for the Ardree hotel because the city boundary runs through it. Its silly like having the Abbey Community college administered from Kilkenny as the boundary runs through its grounds. KK Co Co were originally not enamoured of the port move simply because it created a demand for investment that they would not make. They were very very slow with fresh water there for example. The land is servic
ed for industry now (eg Glanbia) courtesy of Waterford City Waste Water plant at Gorteens. KK CC would never have made that investment in my view. Investment received while Martin Cullen was a minister solved most of the problems. In general, if the IDA bring someone to Waterford fora pharma industry they might look at Knockhouse or Belview. It seems silly to me that the IDA and Waterford reps would then have to say...Oh wait, planning for that is done elsewhere, in a town with a different agenda. Anyway its moot. The worst part of this commission's recommendation is that they left the port in co Kilkenny with at least €2 million per annum rates, very little of which will ever be spent in south Kilkenny. It was an absolute cop out in terms of economic cohesion.

Irishlad2014

blackcard wrote: »

beazee wrote: »

Mid 19th century map.
All the Kilculliheen is marked as Waterford.

Here's the Boundary Commission proposal:


What struck me the most was submissions count:
250 - from Kilculliheen, Co. Kilkenny (the very area in question)
299 - from Waterford
16,239 Kilkenny City+Kilkenny Rural (8 formats of the same letter, all delivered in hardcopies, all had to be scanned)


In case you haven't read the report: here's linky

And only 29 submissions in favour of the proposed change

And 18,838 against were a photocopy...

Harry Palmr

Squidvicious wrote: »

I assume that the port is in Belview for sound geographical reasons. I would assume that there were simply no suitable sites on the south side of the river. In addition, having a port on the North side makes it a bit more accessible to most of the rest of the country.

All true, there is nowhere at all south of the Suir or west of the Waterford Estuary as it's all high ground bar a couple of small stretches - the only bit long enough would be Woodstown which apart from being completely unsuited on land is famously shallow. Belview is the only viable spot for it.

Squidvicious

azimuth17 wrote: »

@Squidvicious. Its silly in the same manner as having to make two planning applications for the Ardree hotel because the city boundary runs through it. Its silly like having the Abbey Community college administered from Kilkenny as the boundary runs through its grounds. KK Co Co were originally not enamoured of the port move simply because it created a demand for investment that they would not make. They were very very slow with fresh water there for example. The land is servic
ed for industry now (eg Glanbia) courtesy of Waterford City Waste Water plant at Gorteens. KK CC would never have made that investment in my view. Investment received while Martin Cullen was a minister solved most of the problems. In general, if the IDA bring someone to Waterford fora pharma industry they might look at Knockhouse or Belview. It seems silly to me that the IDA and Waterford reps would then have to say...Oh wait, planning for that is done elsewhere, in a town with a different agenda. Anyway its moot. The worst part of this commission's recommendation is that they left the port in co Kilkenny with at least €2 million per annum rates, very little of which will ever be spent in south Kilkenny. It was an absolute cop out in terms of economic cohesion.

I would be surprised if Kilkenny actively sabotaged development of Belview, even if their only motivation was increased rates. In general, I'd say they're happy enough to facilitate development at Belview.

As for the second bit, I have heard that Waterford Council is not at all happy with the recommendation on the basis that the area to be transferred to them will be of little value to them.

Johnboy1951

I have no recollection why the terminal was moved in the first place. Lack of space to expand?

Max Powers

Squidvicious wrote: »

I would be surprised if Kilkenny actively sabotaged development of Belview, even if their only motivation was increased rates. In general, I'd say they're happy enough to facilitate development at Belview.

As for the second bit, I have heard that Waterford Council is not at all happy with the recommendation on the basis that the area to be transferred to them will be of little value to them.

As for that second bit,...you heard about council....no offence squid, not an attack on you but its probably B.S. then.

Harry Palmr

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I have no recollection why the terminal was moved in the first place. Lack of space to expand?

Too narrow for large LO-LO gantry's and shallow tidal draft depth I think.

azimuth17

they were disinterested when it was seen as a portal move only, but once Louisiana Pacific strandboard mill arrived, then so did the cash in rates. The move was originally driven by Bell Lines who wanted to use the rail connection. KKCC were happy enough with this, but when Bell Lines went bang after the gantry disaster, the demand for road connection grew and demand for water etc. They took along time to warm to the development and have resisted the use of the name Port of Waterford, Belview Terminal, for a long time. Anyone trying to maximise the economic impact of the port and its adjacent land would have placed it back where it belongs, but this is the recommendation of an Independent Boundary Commission. People in Kilkenny would not know bow from stern and that is not meant to be offensive.

Squidvicious

Max Powers wrote: »

As for that second bit,...you heard about council....no offence squid, not an attack on you but its probably B.S. then.

Yeah, fair enough,I have to accept that "heard" is extremely vague. It's rumour, nothing more and as with any rumour may be completely untrue. That said, it wouldn't be a huge leap of logic to say that there is disappointment in Waterford Council that the port wasn't included.

robtri

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Too narrow for large LO-LO gantry's and shallow tidal draft depth I think.

so I believe and that waterford city wanted it out as it wanted to develop the quays and not have a working port right in the city centre

Deiseen

robtri wrote: »

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Too narrow for large LO-LO gantry's and shallow tidal draft depth I think.

so I believe and that waterford city wanted it out as it wanted to develop the quays and not have a working port right in the city centre

I can imagine the meeting now, "Let's get rid of the port and get in.... CAR PARKS". This was subsequently passed unanimously by WCC.

Harry Palmr

ha! Well that was the south quays masterplan! The North Quays we all know and know we will probably never see as envisaged

http://www.worldarchitecturenews.com/project/2008/10004/m3-architects/city-quay-in-waterford.html

Imagine this

http://www.archidea-spp.pl/up_waterford.php?lang=en

road_high

azimuth17 wrote: »

The posts from Road_High suggest that people "up north" near the Kilkenny county town don't think about Waterford that much, although the number of submissions that originated in every form from that area would contradict that. It is also patently obvious that Kilkenny (the county town) does not have another local authority clamped right up against its front door. Brian Cody suggested that rivalry should be confined to the sports field and I agree , but flag waving populists like Phil Hogan are not afraid to use the GAA analogy when it suits them. Road-high proves the adage that when not argued into a point of view , its hard to be argued out of it. No matter what anyone says or shows or thinks or proves the rebuttal is always the same ,usually coupled with disparaging remark(s) about Waterford city on any topic you care to choose. The historic boundaries (map) were there for centuries and the independent commission proposed a return to essentially those boundaries. Regardless of how the city might develop on that side of the river in the future, and it is inevitable courtesy of the massive investment in servicing land via the Waterford Waste Water Treatment facility in Gorteens, I don't see another boundary extension being feasible. AND remember, the Port of Waterford and its annual millions in rates (unspent in south Kilkenny) has been gifted to Co Kilkenny.

Yawn zzzz...it's ground hog day around here. Same old crap rehashed day in day out- honestly no one in Kilkenny carlow or Wexford is interested anymore.
The country is very small, we don't "have to" work with an obstinate Waterford if we don't want to. It's honestly not worth the hassle. There are other regional options and configurations.
Have to laugh at your "gifting"- it's a commercial enterprise that freely choose a co Kilkenny site as the best place to be- it wasn't some kind of gift from the unions.

road_high

azimuth17 wrote: »

they were disinterested when it was seen as a portal move only, but once Louisiana Pacific strandboard mill arrived, then so did the cash in rates. The move was originally driven by Bell Lines who wanted to use the rail connection. KKCC were happy enough with this, but when Bell Lines went bang after the gantry disaster, the demand for road connection grew and demand for water etc. They took along time to warm to the development and have resisted the use of the name Port of Waterford, Belview Terminal, for a long time. Anyone trying to maximise the economic impact of the port and its adjacent land would have placed it back where it belongs, but this is the recommendation of an Independent Boundary Commission. People in Kilkenny would not know bow from stern and that is not meant to be offensive.

We have a lovely big port though. I can tell it clearly eats you up inside. You spout non stop about parochialism and all your posts then extol that very virtue. Do you actually see no irony in the stuff you obsess over?

road_high

Squidvicious wrote: »

I would be surprised if Kilkenny actively sabotaged development of Belview, even if their only motivation was increased rates. In general, I'd say they're happy enough to facilitate development at Belview.

As for the second bit, I have heard that Waterford Council is not at all happy with the recommendation on the basis that the area to be transferred to them will be of little value to them.

Kilkenny council do huge work in promoting the port and the zone around it- they bent over backwards to encourage local company Glanbia to build their plant there for example.

azimuth17

Unfortunately the sale of the north quays by the Port Authority was delayed by a whole raft of legal appeals which went as far as I recall to the Supreme Court. The money that would have been realised had the private buyer been able to purchase the site would have grown the port by an order of magnitude and provided roll on roll off capacity there and rendered it debt free. The appellants were a family firm of fishermen from Kilmore Quay, Co Wexford. An epic disaster for Waterford because of the legal delays. The buyer eventually was forced to withdraw. Same with south quays. They were owned and sold for car parking by the Port Authority and not the city council.

road_high

Deiseen wrote: »

He's right to be agrieved about the lack of IDA jobs in Kilkenny but should not direct this anger towards Waterford. I've pointed out previously that even Carlow has more IDA jobs than KK but still hasn't got a great deal either nor has Waterford for its size. So this is a south eastern issue.

Once again it comes down to a few factors and one of them is the University. Our third level participation is lower than other regions and of the people that do go to third level, they go to other regions to study and don't come back. Hardly an ideal region for a company to set up in is it, knowing they won't be able to find enough qualified staff the fill the vacancies.

That's why we don't get the Dells, the Intels, the HPs etc.

I'm not agrieved because Kilkenny is one of the places in the country generally doing alright for itself.
I certainly don't blame Waterford for anything and welcome any new jobs that come there. I never see jobs in Waterford as some kind of "we should have those" thing.
There's far worse regions in terms of industry and employment, the South Eastern counties are quite wealthy and have been historically.

Deiseen

road_high wrote: »

azimuth17 wrote: »

The posts from Road_High suggest that people "up north" near the Kilkenny county town don't think about Waterford that much, although the number of submissions that originated in every form from that area would contradict that. It is also patently obvious that Kilkenny (the county town) does not have another local authority clamped right up against its front door. Brian Cody suggested that rivalry should be confined to the sports field and I agree , but flag waving populists like Phil Hogan are not afraid to use the GAA analogy when it suits them. Road-high proves the adage that when not argued into a point of view , its hard to be argued out of it. No matter what anyone says or shows or thinks or proves the rebuttal is always the same ,usually coupled with disparaging remark(s) about Waterford city on any topic you care to choose. The historic boundaries (map) were there for centuries and the independent commission proposed a return to essentially those boundaries. Regardless of how the city might develop on that side of the river in the future, and it is inevitable courtesy of the massive investment in servicing land via the Waterford Waste Water Treatment facility in Gorteens, I don't see another boundary extension being feasible. AND remember, the Port of Waterford and its annual millions in rates (unspent in south Kilkenny) has been gifted to Co Kilkenny.

Yawn zzzz...it's ground hog day around here. Same old crap rehashed day in day out- honestly no one in Kilkenny carlow or Wexford is interested anymore.
The country is very small, we don't "have to" work with an obstinate Waterford if we don't want to. It's honestly not worth the hassle. There are other regional options and configurations.
Have to laugh at your "gifting"- it's a commercial enterprise that freely choose a co Kilkenny site as the best place to be- it wasn't some kind of gift from the unions.

Road high, to be fair you do come across better than Michael Kavangh and his insurmountable spelling mistakes BUT in the end, you cannot hide that you have the same bitterness deep down.

Nobody is making out that Waterford is New York city but it's not the wastleland that you and your county men make it out to be. As I said before, you scrape out the tourism (which we perform comparatively in) then name one sector that Kilkenny does better in than Waterford. Please do it.

azimuth17

road_high wrote: »

Kilkenny council do huge work in promoting the port and the zone around it- they bent over backwards to encourage local company Glanbia to build their plant there for example.

Glanbia did not want to build the €40 million treatment plant that would have been necessary to build the new plant at Ballyragget where they already have treatment issues. They sought a site with three requirements. 1, Near a port, 2. Access to treatment facilities of suitable size(Waterford Waste Water plant which you do not even acknowledge. 3 Be in co Kilkenny. Only the Gorteens site was suitable. Bending over backwards does not quite describe that exercise.

And by the way, I have to say that your posts reek of a terrible bitterness.
You still have not told me whether you support the 24/7 interventional cardiology service at UHW for the 500,000 people of the south east?

Deiseen

azimuth17 wrote: »

road_high wrote: »

Kilkenny council do huge work in promoting the port and the zone around it- they bent over backwards to encourage local company Glanbia to build their plant there for example.

Glanbia did not want to build the €40 million treatment plant that would have been necessary to build the new plant at Ballyragget where they already have treatment issues. They sought a site with three requirements. 1, Near a port, 2. Access to treatment facilities of suitable size(Waterford Waste Water plant which you do not even acknowledge. 3 Be in co Kilkenny. Only the Gorteens site was suitable. Bending over backwards does not quite describe that exercise.

And by the way, I have to say that your posts reek of a terrible bitterness.
You still have not told me whether you support the 24/7 interventional cardiology service at UHW for the 500,000 people of the south east?

Sure, how can he recognise the need for this when the city does not even exist in his world? He'd much rather get stuck in a traffic jam in Dublin on his way to work/for a meal/for emergency heart surgery.

Cabaal

zulutango wrote: »

What do readers here think of an amalgamation of Kilkenny and Waterford Councils? I think it's the most sensible solution. Create one strong region rather than two weak ones. I'm not sure what the new, enlarged authority could be called. Hurling teams could continue to align themselves along the traditional english county boundaries if they so wished.

p.s. I am from neither Kilkenny nor Waterford, and don't have loyalty to one over another.

Much more chance of Carlow /Kilkenny merging then your idea I'm afraid.

BBM77

Deiseen wrote: »

Sure, how can he recognise the need for this when the city does not even exist in his world? He'd much rather get stuck in a traffic jam in Dublin on his way to work/for a meal/for emergency heart surgery.

It won’t happen but I would agree with you in sorts. Personally I believe that the Waterford city metropolitan district as it is called since the council merger should be a local authority on its own. And county Waterford should be merged with county Kilkenny or Tipperary. County Waterford has much more in common in administrate terms with county Kilkenny and Tipperary than it has with the Waterford city which is urban and suburban. County Waterford, Kilkenny and Tipperary are all similar in that they are rural with county towns.

Squidvicious

BBM77 wrote: »

It won’t happen but I would agree with you in sorts. Personally I believe that the Waterford city metropolitan district as it is called since the council merger should be a local authority on its own. And county Waterford should be merged with county Kilkenny or Tipperary. County Waterford has much more in common in administrate terms with county Kilkenny and Tipperary than it has with the Waterford city which is urban and suburban. County Waterford, Kilkenny and Tipperary are all similar in that they are rural with county towns.

I'm not sure about how exactly would be best to reorganise our counties, but I certainly think that a wholesale reorganisation would be far better than just shifting the existing boundary a mile up the road. People say that it makes sense to put all of Ferrybank into Waterford but the fact is that our current county boundaries make no sense either. I see no point in being lumped in to a county that runs almost to Youghal. I've said it before but perhaps we could have much larger counties(e.g. one for the South-East as a whole) or alternatively have smaller units based on the nearest big town/city, like they have done in the North. Even if you accept that Waterford's boundary ought to be extended, the current proposed shift is really only tinkering at the edges and will surely satisfy nobody in Waterford while simultaneously annoying many in Kilkenny.

zulutango

Cabaal wrote: »

Much more chance of Carlow /Kilkenny merging then your idea I'm afraid.

Yes, I guess so. It is unfortunate for the people of Kilkenny and Waterford that this most sensible solution isn't even on the cards.

zulutango

Squidvicious wrote: »

I'm not sure about how exactly would be best to reorganise our counties, but I certainly think that a wholesale reorganisation would be far better than just shifting the existing boundary a mile up the road. People say that it makes sense to put all of Ferrybank into Waterford but the fact is that our current county boundaries make no sense either. I see no point in being lumped in to a county that runs almost to Youghal. I've said it before but perhaps we could have much larger counties(e.g. one for the South-East as a whole) or alternatively have smaller units based on the nearest big town/city, like they have done in the North. Even if you accept that Waterford's boundary ought to be extended, the current proposed shift is really only tinkering at the edges and will surely satisfy nobody in Waterford while simultaneously annoying many in Kilkenny.

This really is where the argument should be. If it was right to amalgamate Waterford City and County Councils, then why shouldn't it be right to amalgamate Waterford and Kilkenny?

azimuth17

I agree. There should be an overarching regional government (I think the green Party proposed something like this) for the south east based on Waterford city. It is ironic that teh south east has teh same land mass and the same population as county Cork. They have a single voice and we.....? Well just read this forum. While waiting for Utopia, we have to deal with current reality. An independent commission has decided that a small part of Kilkenny, which was historically Waterford should be returned to Waterford AND the port should stay in co Kilkenny. End of argument?

Dunmoreroader

I've been trying to make out the exact route of the proposed new border from the ring road to the river. The report states that it follows the line of an existing minor tributary of the Suir.
Anyone got a map that shows this line exactly as its hard to make it out from the map in the report?

beazee

Dunmoreroader wrote: »

Anyone got a map that shows this line exactly as its hard to make it out from the map in the report?

Make it up yourself:


"It has chosen to recommend the designation of a new Boundary between the Authorities that will move the entire Electoral Area of Kilculliheen and those parts of the Electoral Areas of Aglish and Dunkitt contained within the Area of Interest that lie south of the of the N25 bypass to the control of Waterford Council. "

Boundary based on minor tributary is to the east.

Irishlad2014

Deiseen wrote: »

road_high wrote: »

azimuth17 wrote: »

The posts from Road_High suggest that people "up north" near the Kilkenny county town don't think about Waterford that much, although the number of submissions that originated in every form from that area would contradict that. It is also patently obvious that Kilkenny (the county town) does not have another local authority clamped right up against its front door. Brian Cody suggested that rivalry should be confined to the sports field and I agree , but flag waving populists like Phil Hogan are not afraid to use the GAA analogy when it suits them. Road-high proves the adage that when not argued into a point of view , its hard to be argued out of it. No matter what anyone says or shows or thinks or proves the rebuttal is always the same ,usually coupled with disparaging remark(s) about Waterford city on any topic you care to choose. The historic boundaries (map) were there for centuries and the independent commission proposed a return to essentially those boundaries. Regardless of how the city might develop on that side of the river in the future, and it is inevitable courtesy of the massive investment in servicing land via the Waterford Waste Water Treatment facility in Gorteens, I don't see another boundary extension being feasible. AND remember, the Port of Waterford and its annual millions in rates (unspent in south Kilkenny) has been gifted to Co Kilkenny.

Yawn zzzz...it's ground hog day around here. Same old crap rehashed day in day out- honestly no one in Kilkenny carlow or Wexford is interested anymore.
The country is very small, we don't "have to" work with an obstinate Waterford if we don't want to. It's honestly not worth the hassle. There are other regional options and configurations.
Have to laugh at your "gifting"- it's a commercial enterprise that freely choose a co Kilkenny site as the best place to be- it wasn't some kind of gift from the unions.

Road high, to be fair you do come across better than Michael Kavangh and his insurmountable spelling mistakes BUT in the end, you cannot hide that you have the same bitterness deep down.

Nobody is making out that Waterford is New York city but it's not the wastleland that you and your county men make it out to be. As I said before, you scrape out the tourism (which we perform comparatively in) then name one sector that Kilkenny does better in than Waterford. Please do it.

Just regarding tourism, the 2015 figures might interest you check http://www.itic.ie/
Waterford out performing Kilkenny in revenue from overseas visitors.

beazee

Deiseen

Irishlad2014 wrote: »

Deiseen wrote: »

road_high wrote: »

azimuth17 wrote: »

The posts from Road_High suggest that people "up north" near the Kilkenny county town don't think about Waterford that much, although the number of submissions that originated in every form from that area would contradict that. It is also patently obvious that Kilkenny (the county town) does not have another local authority clamped right up against its front door. Brian Cody suggested that rivalry should be confined to the sports field and I agree , but flag waving populists like Phil Hogan are not afraid to use the GAA analogy when it suits them. Road-high proves the adage that when not argued into a point of view , its hard to be argued out of it. No matter what anyone says or shows or thinks or proves the rebuttal is always the same ,usually coupled with disparaging remark(s) about Waterford city on any topic you care to choose. The historic boundaries (map) were there for centuries and the independent commission proposed a return to essentially those boundaries. Regardless of how the city might develop on that side of the river in the future, and it is inevitable courtesy of the massive investment in servicing land via the Waterford Waste Water Treatment facility in Gorteens, I don't see another boundary extension being feasible. AND remember, the Port of Waterford and its annual millions in rates (unspent in south Kilkenny) has been gifted to Co Kilkenny.

Yawn zzzz...it's ground hog day around here. Same old crap rehashed day in day out- honestly no one in Kilkenny carlow or Wexford is interested anymore.
The country is very small, we don't "have to" work with an obstinate Waterford if we don't want to. It's honestly not worth the hassle. There are other regional options and configurations.
Have to laugh at your "gifting"- it's a commercial enterprise that freely choose a co Kilkenny site as the best place to be- it wasn't some kind of gift from the unions.

Road high, to be fair you do come across better than Michael Kavangh and his insurmountable spelling mistakes BUT in the end, you cannot hide that you have the same bitterness deep down.

Nobody is making out that Waterford is New York city but it's not the wastleland that you and your county men make it out to be. As I said before, you scrape out the tourism (which we perform comparatively in) then name one sector that Kilkenny does better in than Waterford. Please do it.

Just regarding tourism, the 2015 figures might interest you check http://www.itic.ie/
Waterford out performing Kilkenny in revenue from overseas visitors.

I'd mentioned this in a previous post that their numbers were slightly higher than ours but their spend was way less. Much appreciated to have it in a graphic image.

Can anyone tell me, and this is not being harsh, what does Kilkenny actually excel in? Agriculture? People have previously said that Kilkenny held up well during the downturn but has it ever really been booming?

I know we seem to have this idea that Kilkenny City is this boomtown but the figures generally say otherwise.

BBM77

It will be interesting to see the effect better shopping in the city centre, the greenway and the new WIT Arena will have on the visitor numbers and spending. The three of these will up our games in terms of attracting visitors. We need more hotel rooms though big time.

BBM77

Deiseen wrote: »

I'd mentioned this in a previous post that their numbers were slightly higher than ours but their spend was way less. Much appreciated to have it in a graphic image.

Can anyone tell me, and this is not being harsh, what does Kilkenny actually excel in? Agriculture? People have previously said that Kilkenny held up well during the downturn but has it ever really been booming?

I know we seem to have this idea that Kilkenny City is this boomtown but the figures generally say otherwise.

They were just childish insults thrown at Waterford because the boundary extension committee found in Waterford’s favour. A throw you’re toys out of the pram because you did not get your way kind of thing. The reason there was not a big loss of jobs in Kilkenny at the recession is because there was not any to lose in the first place. Same as yourself, I genuinely don’t mean to be harsh but the reality is Kilkenny is just a glorified commuter town.

azimuth17

Kilkenny has an excellent retail and tourism proposition, Waterford's is improving daily from a low baseline, Wexford also excellent, but largely internal tourism (from Dublin?) but I think we would all be better off working together to get more people into the south east as a region rather than pushing individual places. When people say that the south east is wealthy, this is the traditional view based on land, but land forms a very small part of the modern economy. Unemployment in the south east is still around 10.5% which is the highest in the country as far as I know. Tourism is nice to have but is not a panacea or a substitute for a properly diversified economy.

hardybuck

What role does the South East Regional Assembly play? Are they even still in existence?

Harry Palmr

Waterford (well Tramore) is a bucket and spade destination for Dubs, we have no Quiet Man or Ryan's Daughter type cultural beacon to play on.

Deiseen

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Waterford (well Tramore) is a bucket and spade destination for Dubs, we have no Quiet Man or Ryan's Daughter type cultural beacon to play on.

Those previous figures are international visitors. I think we do quiet well in internal visits too though.

Michael Kavanagh

BBM77 wrote: »

They were just childish insults thrown at Waterford because the boundary extension committee found in Waterford’s favour. A throw you’re toys out of the pram because you did not get your way kind of thing. The reason there was not a big loss of jobs in Kilkenny at the recession is because there was not any to lose in the first place. Same as yourself, I genuinely don’t mean to be harsh but the reality is Kilkenny is just a glorified commuter town.

Diago lost two hundred fifty jobs between contractors employees, Roughly the biggest employers are Glanbia in kilkenny 700, local authorities around 700, Vhi health care 250 , state street international 300, banking 365 250, I don't know what the figures are for Taxback. com,

Deiseen

Michael Kavanagh wrote: »

BBM77 wrote: »

They were just childish insults thrown at Waterford because the boundary extension committee found in Waterford’s favour. A throw you’re toys out of the pram because you did not get your way kind of thing. The reason there was not a big loss of jobs in Kilkenny at the recession is because there was not any to lose in the first place. Same as yourself, I genuinely don’t mean to be harsh but the reality is Kilkenny is just a glorified commuter town.

Diago lost two hundred fifty jobs between contractors employees, Roughly the biggest employers are Glanbia in kilkenny 700, local authorities around 700, Vhi health care 250 , state street international 300, banking 365 250, I don't know what the figures are for Taxback. com,

That's it Michael? Funny that the second largest employer you mention is the local authority. Sure Bausch and Lomb employ 1,250 people in Waterford alone, that's almost the same amount as everything you mentioned there and it's only one company. You'll be mentioning the Kilkenny hurlers next as public servants in order to prop up the numbers.

road_high

Deiseen wrote: »

I'd mentioned this in a previous post that their numbers were slightly higher than ours but their spend was way less. Much appreciated to have it in a graphic image.

Can anyone tell me, and this is not being harsh, what does Kilkenny actually excel in? Agriculture? People have previously said that Kilkenny held up well during the downturn but has it ever really been booming?

I know we seem to have this idea that Kilkenny City is this boomtown but the figures generally say otherwise.

Gosh you're all more than a tad insecure arent you though? If Kilkenny is the insignificant place you guys like to keep telling yourself, why does every single thread in this Waterford page continually refer to Kilkenny, continually refer to and constantly compare yourselves to Kilkenny (to make yourselves feel better I guess). It almost certainly doesn't go the other way. You're obsessed by the place, obsessed by what Kilkenny people do, where they work, how they work etc etc
This thread has turned into a penis measuring contest it's hysterical but really illustrates why you will never be the cohesive centre of a SE region you crave to be. You all continually insult and belittle each and every part of the region to the nth degree (of which only 10% of the people even live in WD, indeed far more people live in co Wexford) (and you only have to look at the bile directed at Carlow and the IT, most of whom barely know where Waterford is. Or care).

Remind again why would anyone sane would want to work collaboratively with anything involving Waterford again? If you lot are represtative then Christ...They don't, its the reason st Luke's and Wexford general hospitals are now part of Dublin hospital groupings.

road_high

azimuth17 wrote: »

Glanbia did not want to build the €40 million treatment plant that would have been necessary to build the new plant at Ballyragget where they already have treatment issues. They sought a site with three requirements. 1, Near a port, 2. Access to treatment facilities of suitable size(Waterford Waste Water plant which you do not even acknowledge. 3 Be in co Kilkenny. Only the Gorteens site was suitable. Bending over backwards does not quite describe that exercise.

And by the way, I have to say that your posts reek of a terrible bitterness.
You still have not told me whether you support the 24/7 interventional cardiology service at UHW for the 500,000 people of the south east?

You're reading bitterness because it suits your narrative of victimhood. Something you were no doubt reared on. I call it reality.
My views on cardiology are irrelevant to this thread. Not sure why you keep obsessing over this. I'd like to think though if I did need specialist medical intervention I'd get the best care possible wherever the experts on such matters view as the best.