Boundary Extension for City?

road_high

Squidvicious wrote: »

Yeah, not really the editor's finest moment. You'd have to assume that he was sniggering a little as he wrote it it's so over the top in parts. And I doubt he has any inside track on what the boundary commission will decide. I may well be wrong but I don't see them going for a change. After all, the decision in Roscommon/Westmeath was no change. Admittedly, there could be different factors at play there. However, the big issue is rates and the proposed boundary change would cause a huge revenue loss to Kilkenny and would have serious ramifications for the county. They would need pretty overwhelming reasoning to inflict that on Kilkenny.
That said, there is a possibility of a draw. Waterford asked for the maximum - a boundary extension as far as the bypass and Belview. If it's open to them, the commission might reject that but allow a smaller boundary move.

The Kk people was tongue in cheek, purposely over the top. Sean Keane is the editor, is one of the famous listowel Keane's- his da wrote "The Field" so much of his writing draws from this, over dramatisation. I don't think anyone in all seriousness considers there'll expulsions!
I think no change too- the report is non binding, it has zero powers in itself and would have to be brought through both houses of the Oireacthtas. This is a none issue outside of the area, my feeling is both local authorities will be told to work together but there won't be a boundary change- as per Athlone.

Wanderer78

have wwn done anything on this yet?

Squidvicious

Wanderer78 wrote: »

have wwn done anything on this yet?

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2016/12/16/waterford-armed-forces-bombard-kilkenny-rebels-in-battle-for-ferrybank/

Pretty good effort from the WWN lads in fairness:D

BBM77

Squidvicious wrote: »

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2016/12/16/waterford-armed-forces-bombard-kilkenny-rebels-in-battle-for-ferrybank/

Pretty good effort from the WWN lads in fairness:D

You would not know which is funnier. The WWN spoof or the so called “facts” that sections in Kilkenny are regurgitating.

Max Powers

Couldn't believe my ears when I heard Mary butler (ff) on wlr saying she (and ff) will fight boundary extension...is she completely ignorant of kk mismanagement of f-bank area, importance of this issue to Waterford city, or in some totally misguided attempt to get favour with Michael Martin.

Jamie2k9

Max Powers wrote: »

Couldn't believe my ears when I heard Mary butler (ff) on wlr saying she (and ff) will fight boundary extension...is she completely ignorant of kk mismanagement of f-bank area, importance of this issue to Waterford city, or in some totally misguided attempt to get favour with Michael Martin.

Kilkenny are really ff so not surprise.

BBM77

Max Powers wrote: »

Couldn't believe my ears when I heard Mary butler (ff) on wlr saying she (and ff) will fight boundary extension...is she completely ignorant of kk mismanagement of f-bank area, importance of this issue to Waterford city, or in some totally misguided attempt to get favour with Michael Martin.

a. From this and other things it sounds like the boundary extension will be recommended.

b. This is another example of why I have believed for a long time that the city should be a constituency on its own. These county TD’s simple do not represent the city full stop.

Also, I hate FG for the way they have treated Waterford while in power this time around. But I would consider voting for them again if they carry through with the boundary extension. It would be one of the most refreshing things I have seen in politics in Ireland. For once a decisions would be made on common sense and not the tribal BS we get in politics in Ireland.

Max Powers

Well, if Mary butler can't at least pretend that she has Waterford interest at heart,I will be writing to her to ask her to resign, not fit to represent Waterford.

Wanderer2010

Max Powers wrote: »

Well, if Mary butler can't at least pretend that she has Waterford interest at heart,I will be writing to her to ask her to resign, not fit to represent Waterford.

Don't forget she also signed the Eviction Bill, shes a complete and utter puppet of FF bigwigs.

Jamie2k9

http://www.wlrfm.com/news/local/93554-waterford-fianna-fail-td-mary-butler-says-she-will-vote-against-waterford-boundary-extension.html

A Boundary Commission report is expected to recommend that Waterford Council extend into South Kilkenny but that extension will not include the Port of Waterford or Slieveure.

Michael Martin told the Kilkenny People that there is no need to change county boundaries and he favours a co-operative approach rather than the provocative road Waterford has taken.

Mary Butler told Deise AM that If the boundary extension is put to a dail vote by housing minister
Simon Coveney she will join other Fianna Fail TD's and vote against it.

blue note

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

http://www.wlrfm.com/news/local/93554-waterford-fianna-fail-td-mary-butler-says-she-will-vote-against-waterford-boundary-extension.html

Did she say why she is opposed to the boundary extension? Sounds like a party decision from Fianna Fail.

Deise Vu

So Michéal thinks it is provocative to extend Waterford's Council Boundary's into the city's suburbs and, presumably, he thinks it wasn't provocative for Kilkenny to grant planning permission to a monstrosity of a shopping centre in the same suburbs even though that is completely contrary to what Waterford City Council is trying to achieve for Waterford City Centre. And Mary Butler agrees?

I guess the more than slightly unflattering opinions I heard of her when she was elected were spot on. It also indicates, surprisingly, that FF have given up on getting enough support for a second seat in Waterford but think they will have enough core eeejits support to maintain their one. I hope we have the sense to let them know what we think of that in the next election.

fricatus

Squidvicious wrote: »

Without wishing to sound like a broken record, I don't see what difference it will make so we'll have to agree to differ on that one - I doubt we'll convince one another
Funnily enough, I would have a bit more time for the proposed extension if we were to be made part of an expanded Waterford city. However, I just can't see the sense behind becoming part of a county which stretches almost to Youghal. The ideal scenario would be a wholesale redrafting of administrative boundaries in Ireland. The old traditional county boundaries could remain but with entirely new boundaries reflecting the modern Ireland. It could be done so as to save some money too.
And I agree that those issues are important for the whole region and not just Waterford. Regional solidarity hasn't been a strong point of the South East for whatever reason and we have all suffered as a result.

A lot of sense in these comments, in fairness to you. However, on your point about Youghal, can you see how people in Ferrybank feel how their interests as suburban residents of Waterford are not represented very well by being in a constituency that extends up to Carlow?

road_high

fricatus wrote: »

A lot of sense in these comments, in fairness to you. However, on your point about Youghal, can you see how people in Ferrybank feel how their interests as suburban residents of Waterford are not represented very well by being in a constituency that extends up to Carlow?

No different to someone in Mooncoin or Tullow really. In fact part of Carlow votes in co Wicklow want to get it re included in Carlow Kilkenny so clearly those people (on borders) see merit in being represented there. Can't imagine why it would be any different for someone living in south Kilkenny where 3 of the 5 TDs come from. If you move to a different constituency of your own valition you have to accept the status quo.
I can't say I'd find the idea of Davy Cullenane or John Halligan being my representative TDs have a plus to be honest, bad and all as Bobby Alyward may be.

Squidvicious

fricatus wrote: »

A lot of sense in these comments, in fairness to you. However, on your point about Youghal, can you see how people in Ferrybank feel how their interests as suburban residents of Waterford are not represented very well by being in a constituency that extends up to Carlow?

Yes, I can certainly see how that's an issue for many too, though constituency boundaries don't have to coincide with county boundaries(for example, parts of Carlow vote in Wicklow) and redrawing constituency boundaries has a whole load of other problems too in so far as each one needs to have a certain number of TD's per voter so they're not simple to redraw.

It goes back to what I say about wholesale revision of boundaries being the way to go, though it's hard to see that happening nationally.

Max Powers

mary.butler@oireachtas.ie

I think everyone should email this disgraceful TD after what she said today, I have just emailed her to show tell her that she is way out of sync with the Waterford public opinion.



"..............You were voted in to represent Waterford, do what is best for Waterford, it doesnt get any clearer than that, it is shocking that you would go on radio and say you are not in favour, not fully supportive or muddy the waters of something that could be really beneficial to Waterford. As a consequence of this you are not fit to represent Waterford or Waterford's best interests and you should resign."

TheQuietFella

Max Powers wrote: »

Couldn't believe my ears when I heard Mary butler (ff) on wlr saying she (and ff) will fight boundary extension...is she completely ignorant of kk mismanagement of f-bank area, importance of this issue to Waterford city, or in some totally misguided attempt to get favour with Michael Martin.

This is what ye voted for and what ye get with gender quotas and trying to look

fashionable by electing a woman with absolutely no political experience!

Realt Dearg Sec

TheQuietFella wrote: »

This is what ye voted for and what ye get with gender quotas and trying to look

fashionable by electing a woman with absolutely no political experience!

ffs...is this lad one of ye're logical, reasonable advocates for changing the boundary?

road_high

Max Powers wrote: »

mary.butler@oireachtas.ie

I think everyone should email this disgraceful TD after what she said today, I have just emailed her to show tell her that she is way out of sync with the Waterford public opinion.



"..............You were voted in to represent Waterford, do what is best for Waterford, it doesnt get any clearer than that, it is shocking that you would go on radio and say you are not in favour, not fully supportive or muddy the waters of something that could be really beneficial to Waterford. As a consequence of this you are not fit to represent Waterford or Waterford's best interests and you should resign."

But you can't just bulldoze over Kilkenny public opinion (its equally as important btw) either just to change the name over a certain part of another county. You just are so blinkered by your blue and white tinted glasses, all you can see is what you perceive as good for you( you mention Waterford continuously so please don't pretend it's some kind of non existent "concern" for the SE) - you can't ride rough shod over Kilkenny- FF know this and aren't going to go risking their 2/3 seat quota in Carlow Kk when they can barely get one seat in Waterford. I Totally ageee with them on maintaining county boundaries (I don't care if you think they're based on historical things- if that was the case was the big push to stick a Waterford sign up?).
You can send pointless emails ad nauseam to this lady but it'll make no difference whatsoever.

Max Powers

road_high wrote: »

But you can't just bulldoze over Kilkenny public opinion (its equally as important btw) either just to change the name over a certain part of another county. You just are so blinkered by your blue and white tinted glasses, all you can see is what you perceive as good for you( you mention Waterford continuously so please don't pretend it's some kind of non existent "concern" for the SE) - you can't ride rough shod over Kilkenny- FF know this and aren't going to go risking their 2/3 seat quota in Carlow Kk when they can barely get one seat in Waterford. I Totally ageee with them on maintaining county boundaries (I don't care if you think they're based on historical things- if that was the case was the big push to stick a Waterford sign up?).
You can send pointless emails ad nauseam to this lady but it'll make no difference whatsoever.

you are gone off on a tangent there but to address it,I believe people in the area would be better served by Waterford council, makes sense on so many fronts already covered.I do recognise that slieverue is a bit further away and bit different possibly.however, my main point is Mary butler should be in favour of what helps Waterford, we'll be waiting for kk td's to do anything for us.

BTW, emails are not useless, maybe my one won't change her stance but a few more of the same might if people could be bothered helping themselves.

Squidvicious

Max Powers wrote: »

you are gone off on a tangent there but to address it,I believe people in the area would be better served by Waterford council, makes sense on so many fronts already covered.I do recognise that slieverue is a bit further away and bit different possibly.however, my main point is Mary butler should be in favour of what helps Waterford, we'll be waiting for kk td's to do anything for us.

BTW, emails are not useless, maybe my one won't change her stance but a few more of the same might if people could be bothered helping themselves.

I find that I am perfectly well served by Kilkenny County Council. What will Waterford County Council do differently or better for me?

Max Powers

Squidvicious wrote: »

I find that I am perfectly well served by Kilkenny County Council. What will Waterford County Council do differently or better for me?

Really, you're ok with decades of kkcoco under investing in the area.

Deiseen

Squidvicious wrote: »

Max Powers wrote: »

you are gone off on a tangent there but to address it,I believe people in the area would be better served by Waterford council, makes sense on so many fronts already covered.I do recognise that slieverue is a bit further away and bit different possibly.however, my main point is Mary butler should be in favour of what helps Waterford, we'll be waiting for kk td's to do anything for us.

BTW, emails are not useless, maybe my one won't change her stance but a few more of the same might if people could be bothered helping themselves.

I find that I am perfectly well served by Kilkenny County Council. What will Waterford County Council do differently or better for me?

Where are you based?

Jambo

Honestly, I cannot understand why these politicians are taking such stances it’s certainly not for the benefit of their constituents.

I would describe myself as a person whom all my life would have said not an inch of black and amber turf should be handed over to the Deise, however since I no have had kids I have very quickly realised how much of a no man’s land Ferrybank and south Kilkenny is in respect of the lack of services, facilities and amenities available to myself and my Family! We heavily rely on our cars to access vital amenities and facilities in Waterford City and its Suburbs that are simply not present on our side of the river due to this two-council situation!

Per the 2011 Census Ferrybank has a population of 5722 (911 for Ferrybank within Waterford, and 4811 for Ferrybank in Kilkenny (Kilculliheen Barony / Parish which accounts for approx. 30% of the land subject to the so called “land grab”)) in comparison Carrick on Suir has a population of 5886, Dungarvan 8000 yet Ferrybank doesn’t even come close to having 10% of the basic Public Amenities and Facilities that these areas have! Even the village of Portlaw (Pop 1598) has more than Ferrybank yet its a 3rd the size of it.

Compare Ferrybank to other suburbs of Waterford such as the Ardkeen / Dunmore Road area or the Lisduggan / Lismore / Cleaboy area both which have similar populations and then think of the facilities and amenities available in these areas then true deficit of facilities and amenities seen in Ferrybank really becomes apparent!

Now add to the mix that each of these areas have excellent links to the rest of the City as all are directly connected to the city and the other suburbs a network of various roads and routes where as Ferrybank is essentially divided and isolated from the rest of the city and its Suburbs by the river, mount misery and the derelict north quays with realistically only one viable congested bridge to the city which is 1.1km from the shops in Ferrybank and even further from the widespread residential areas in Ferrybank.

IMO Ferrybank’s uniqueness urgently needs to be recognized managed correctly as one area by one council and not split between two councils.

I do understand the anger that folk on the outer limits of this "land grab" feel
but what I say to them is why should you have to travel to Waterford City / New Ross etc for basic amenities, when people living the same distance from Waterford they are (but in County Waterford) may only have to travel their nearest suburb such as Ardkeen, or Lisduggan ? Would you no prefer being able to do the same business / activity closer to home in Ferrybank ?

If this merger gets approved (which I hope it does) I sincerely hope Waterford will develop Ferrybank and give us the same vital amenities and facilities that each other suburb of the city has.

</rant>

Parachutes

Squidvicious wrote: »

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2016/12/16/waterford-armed-forces-bombard-kilkenny-rebels-in-battle-for-ferrybank/

Pretty good effort from the WWN lads in fairness:D

Support our Troops

Squidvicious

Jambo wrote: »

Honestly, I cannot understand why these politicians are taking such stances it’s certainly not for the benefit of their constituents.

I would describe myself as a person whom all my life would have said not an inch of black and amber turf should be handed over to the Deise, however since I no have had kids I have very quickly realised how much of a no man’s land Ferrybank and south Kilkenny is in respect of the lack of services, facilities and amenities available to myself and my Family! We heavily rely on our cars to access vital amenities and facilities in Waterford City and its Suburbs that are simply not present on our side of the river due to this two-council situation!

Per the 2011 Census Ferrybank has a population of 5722 (911 for Ferrybank within Waterford, and 4811 for Ferrybank in Kilkenny (Kilculliheen Barony / Parish which accounts for approx. 30% of the land subject to the so called “land grab”)) in comparison Carrick on Suir has a population of 5886, Dungarvan 8000 yet Ferrybank doesn’t even come close to having 10% of the basic Public Amenities and Facilities that these areas have! Even the village of Portlaw (Pop 1598) has more than Ferrybank yet its a 3rd the size of it.

Compare Ferrybank to other suburbs of Waterford such as the Ardkeen / Dunmore Road area or the Lisduggan / Lismore / Cleaboy area both which have similar populations and then think of the facilities and amenities available in these areas then true deficit of facilities and amenities seen in Ferrybank really becomes apparent!

Now add to the mix that each of these areas have excellent links to the rest of the City as all are directly connected to the city and the other suburbs a network of various roads and routes where as Ferrybank is essentially divided and isolated from the rest of the city and its Suburbs by the river, mount misery and the derelict north quays with realistically only one viable congested bridge to the city which is 1.1km from the shops in Ferrybank and even further from the widespread residential areas in Ferrybank.

IMO Ferrybank’s uniqueness urgently needs to be recognized managed correctly as one area by one council and not split between two councils.

I do understand the anger that folk on the outer limits of this "land grab" feel
but what I say to them is why should you have to travel to Waterford City / New Ross etc for basic amenities, when people living the same distance from Waterford they are (but in County Waterford) may only have to travel their nearest suburb such as Ardkeen, or Lisduggan ? Would you no prefer being able to do the same business / activity closer to home in Ferrybank ?

If this merger gets approved (which I hope it does) I sincerely hope Waterford will develop Ferrybank and give us the same vital amenities and facilities that each other suburb of the city has.

</rant>

I'm honestly not sure what you mean by amenities but I think that you are possibly overestimating what a council can do or even what it its role.

Do "amenities" mean shops? Well, Ferrybank will never be like Carrick or New Ross because it's not a town on its own. People in Ferrybank and surrounding areas will always shop in Waterford to a large degree. Bar more shops in the Ardkeen area and Lisduggan, I really don't see what more facilities exist in the Waterford suburbs. Indeed, some are worse for shops etc. e.g. Carrigphierish.

In any case, Councils don't build shops. Developers do when they think that a buck can be made from it. You actually have most BASIC amenities in Ferrybank as it is, Spar, Aldi, off-licence etc. As the population increases that may change. I don't live too far from Ferrybank and I don't see it as any major inconvenience to go to Waterford if needs be -the best of both worlds, living in KK but a city nearby(I know, having my cake and eating it, perhaps).

A Council's role is actually quite limited. Maintain roads and sewerage, planning being the main ones. I still maintain that changing council jurisdiction will make very little difference apart, perhaps, from a couple of more housing estates in the Ferrybank area. You talk about Ferrybank being isolated. Well, you can't change geography. As for management, again you overestimate what a council can do. Facilities will be built by the private sector if there's demand, regardless of county boundaries.

The real issue at the Council level is that Waterford would like a slice of the rates pie on this side of the river. Why else do you think they have applied for an extension? Certainly not because they want to go on the missions and rescue us poor South Kilkenny residents from misery. Admittedly, Kilkenny is fighting the change mainly because they're absolutely terrified of losing those same rates.

Squidvicious

Parachutes wrote: »

Support our Troops

https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/w/winstonchu161337.html
:P

Squidvicious

Max Powers wrote: »

Really, you're ok with decades of kkcoco under investing in the area.

I hear alot about KKCC's underinvestment. So what more would Waterford do for us?

MRnotlob606

BBM77 wrote: »

a. From this and other things it sounds like the boundary extension will be recommended.

b. This is another example of why I have believed for a long time that the city should be a constituency on its own. These county TD’s simple do not represent the city full stop.

Also, I hate FG for the way they have treated Waterford while in power this time around. But I would consider voting for them again if they carry through with the boundary extension. It would be one of the most refreshing things I have seen in politics in Ireland. For once a decisions would be made on common sense and not the tribal BS we get in politics in Ireland.

Of course we need a second constituency. We don't need rural TD's who haven't a clue about how to run the city, representing our interests. How can someone who wants to prioritise rural issues know whats best for Waterford City?. The thing is we probably don't have enough people to divide the constituency.

robtri

Max Powers wrote: »

Really, you're ok with decades of kkcoco under investing in the area.

I am curious as well what will Waterford do for the newly aquired area's??

Squidvicious

robtri wrote: »

I am curious as well what will Waterford do for the newly aquired area's??

Very little. Councils simply don't have the power to "do" very much for or with any area. They might try to encourage a little more building in Ferrybank(not sure that that would be for our benefit). Then again, KKCC has probably overzoned land in Ferrybank in recent years so I'm not sure that there's a whole lot more that Waterford can do in that direction, except if they were to restrict zoning on the other side of the river - that way, there would be no option but to build in Ferrybank. People probably wouldn't like that though.

The entire extension move is nothing more than an attempt by Waterford to increase it's rates base.

Jambo

There was a discussion about this on Deise AM this morning between Maria Mc Cann and Paudie Coffey (whom I personally have no time for) but every single word he uttered was correct and to the point as why this should happen and I have to say I totally agreed with the man for once.

Im sure the podcast will be online shortly but the general gist if what he spoke about was that the boundary extension was needed so that the city and it services could grow on the Ferrybank side of the river in a sustainable manner around the city center and not how it currently is on one side and away from the City Centre out towards Dunmore, Tramore, and Kilmeadan.

At the end of the day its not about GAA, its about putting Waterford back on the map as a large centre to serve the region just like Cork, Galway, Limerick or Dublin rather than continw the present situation where by the south east haa many centres all competing against each other.

This will IMO benefit the entire region, not just Waterford.

Squidvicious

Jambo wrote: »

There was a discussion about this on Deise AM this morning between Maria Mc Cann and Paudie Coffey (whom I personally have no time for) but every single word he uttered was correct and to the point as why this should happen and I have to say I totally agreed with the man for once.

Im sure the podcast will be online shortly but the general gist if what he spoke about was that the boundary extension was needed so that the city and it services could grow on the Ferrybank side of the river in a sustainable manner around the city center and not how it currently is on one side and away from the City Centre out towards Dunmore, Tramore, and Kilmeadan.

At the end of the day its not about GAA, its about putting Waterford back on the map as a large centre to serve the region just like Cork, Galway, Limerick or Dublin rather than continw the present situation where by the south east haa many centres all competing against each other.

This will IMO benefit the entire region, not just Waterford.

Admittedly, I didn't hear the interview. However, I do not see why a boundary extension is needed if you want more housing on the North side of the river. There has already been significant development. As somebody pointed out above, the population of Ferrybank in KK is almost 5,000. That's a significant increase mainly over the past 20 years or so and all done under KKCC's watch. How will WCC do it differently?

In any case, I really don't see how having the next 1,000 houses to be built locally put on the North side of the river as opposed to the South side of the river will change matters.

As I've said before, the whole reason for the extension is that WCC wants the rates.

As for the bit I've highlighted, a boundary extension will make very little difference here. One thing that Waterford badly needs is support from surrounding counties so that, for example, the local hospital and WIT are recognised as centres for the whole region. Basically, that Waterford is recognised as the centre for the region. However, it's hard to expect cooperation when you're constantly trying to move your boundary. Waterford would do far better to forget about the extension and concentrate on building good relations with neighbouring counties so that the whole region can grow.

Jambo

Squidvicious wrote: »

Admittedly, I didn't hear the interview. However, I do not see why a boundary extension is needed if you want more housing on the North side of the river. There has already been significant development. As somebody pointed out above, the population of Ferrybank in KK is almost 5,000. That's a significant increase mainly over the past 20 years or so and all done under KKCC's watch. How will WCC do it differently?

In any case, I really don't see how having the next 1,000 houses to be built locally put on the North side of the river as opposed to the South side of the river will make any difference.

As I've said before, the whole reason for the extension is that WCC wants the rates.

When you consider that The WD KK Boundary Commission was set up by the then Minister Alan Kelly, when he set up 4 or 5 other commissions all with the same aim of looking how to promote sustainable growth in a number of population centers in the country where growth has been skewed / hampered because the relevant urban areas covered more than one council area.

So bearing this in mind I don't see how the "Land Grab" or "Rates Grabbing" arguments can hold water.

I live in Ferrybank (in Kilkenny) and have done virtually all my years since birth, IMO Kilkenny has left us down, they have not developed the area they way it should have been.

Ask to yourself What has KK CoCo done with all the development contributions they took in form all the developments in Ferrybank over the last 20 years (which are normally ment to stay in the area) ? They have in the vast majority invested them elsewhere in the County, Ask most councillors and they will tell you that.

As Ferrybank (in KK) is the largest population center in Kilkenny outside if Kilkenny itself with a population twice that of the next nearest population centers of Callan and Castlecomer why is Ferrybank light years behind in terms if investment, amenities and facilities for the population if KK Council are looking after us?

Anyone whom lives in the affected area and thinks KK County Council is working for us, please go online or to the council offices and get yourself a copy of the various local area plans, both current and expired and read for youself all the talk and promises that Kilkenny never delivered on for the Area.

blue note

I remember reading that Kilkenny spend about a third of the rates collected from the Ferrybank area on that area. The people in Ferrybank are essentially in the city (within walking distance of it). So if Waterford collected the rates and spent it on the city it would be serving the residents far better than Kilkenny collecting them and spending them on Kilkenny town / city / I don't care what you call it.

Squidvicious

Jambo wrote: »

When you consider that The WD KK Boundary Commission was set up by the then Minister Alan Kelly, when he set up 4 or 5 other commissions all with the same aim of looking how to promote sustainable growth in a number of population centers in the country where growth has been skewed / hampered because the relevant urban areas covered more than one council area.

So bearing this in mind I don't see how the "Land Grab" or "Rates Grabbing" arguments can hold water.

I live in Ferrybank (in Kilkenny) and have done virtually all my years since birth, IMO Kilkenny has left us down, they have not developed the area they way it should have been.

Ask to yourself What has KK CoCo done with all the development contributions they took in form all the developments in Ferrybank over the last 20 years (which are normally ment to stay in the area) ? They have in the vast majority invested them elsewhere in the County, Ask most councillors and they will tell you that.

As Ferrybank (in KK) is the largest population center in Kilkenny outside if Kilkenny itself with a population twice that of the next nearest population centers of Callan and Castlecomer why is Ferrybank light years behind in terms if investment, amenities and facilities for the population if KK Council are looking after us?

Anyone whom lives in the affected area and thinks KK County Council is working for us, please go online or to the council offices and get yourself a copy of the various local area plans, both current and expired and read for youself all the talk and promises that Kilkenny never delivered on for the Area.

I suspect that it was set up to some degree at the behest of Paudie Coffey and also partly because Waterford(among other counties) has been agitating for boundary changes for many years.

As for a rates grab, the proof of the pudding here is in the fact that WCC included Belview in it's application. The only possible reason that I can see for including Belview is to capture the rates - it's so far from the City that it can hardly be needed for housing etc.

What has KKCC done with the money? Paid council employees, maintained roads, put in water and sewerage services - the same things any Council does. In general this is spread thoughout the county, though in every county, there will always tend to be a little bit of a bias in spending toward county town.You may as well ask what has WCC put into Tramore or Portlaw.

As for facilities, please tell me what you think KKCC should put into Ferrybank or the surrounding area that they haven't? You talk about amenities and facilities but you need to be more specific. I know that I probably don't sound like it but, honestly, I am open to changing my mind on this point but I have heard no evidence as regards what WCC would do differently for us . I've often heard it said that KKCC has neglected us but I've never seen any good evidence of this. Simply repeating something doesn't make it true.

Deiseen

One thing that people don't mention is that, if the boundary is extended, it will instantly increase the population of Waterford City.

There were numerous times where Waterford didn't receive various schemes or investment because of "population". That argument becomes harder to make when your population increases by around 5000 overnight.

If it means getting one or two things from the government, that we normally wouldn't, then that is a direct benefit to the people in South Kilkenny.

Squidvicious

Deiseen wrote: »

One thing that people don't mention is that, if the boundary is extended, it will instantly increase the population of Waterford City.

There were numerous times where Waterford didn't receive various schemes or investment because of "population". That argument becomes harder to make when your population increases by around 5000 overnight.

If it means getting one or two things from the government, that we normally wouldn't, then that is a direct benefit to the people in South Kilkenny.

Following the city and county amalgamation, is Waterford City separately counted any more or would it simply be 5K more into Co.Waterford?

JMT2016

Squidvicious wrote: »

Following the city and county amalgamation, is Waterford City separately counted any more or would it simply be 5K more into Co.Waterford?

Yes, it is separately counted - no different to Limerick which also has a merged city & county council.

For example, census 2016 results show "Waterford City has seen growth of 3.5 per cent compared with only 1.4 per cent for the county."

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/census-2016-population-grows-by-3-7-in-five-years-1.2721557

zulutango

I'm from the border of Limerick and Clare (a.k.a Limerick City). We have a similar situation happening here. It makes sense that the administrative boundary of the city is extended into areas of Clare where a lot of people live.

What makes even more sense is that the counties of Limerick and Clare are amalgamated into one regional authority. Would the posters here from Kilkenny and Waterford agree to the amalgamation of Kilkenny and Waterford councils?

JMT2016

zulutango wrote: »

Would the posters here from Kilkenny and Waterford agree to the amalgamation of Kilkenny and Waterford councils?

Great idea but can you just imagine the waterford whispers piece on that!

The last time something from Kilkenny and Waterford merged, one of Ireland's most successful multinationals ever was born....

zulutango

It neutralises the GAA jersey argument too (as well as being the right thing to do).

road_high

zulutango wrote: »

I'm from the border of Limerick and Clare (a.k.a Limerick City). We have a similar situation happening here. It makes sense that the administrative boundary of the city is extended into areas of Clare where a lot of people live.

What makes even more sense is that the counties of Limerick and Clare are amalgamated into one regional authority. Would the posters here from Kilkenny and Waterford agree to the amalgamation of Kilkenny and Waterford councils?

I'd personally have no issue with this as it would save an administrative fortune...no more 2 Departments of everything...I've suggested Carlow and Kilkenny merge before on this website but it was roundly shot down. People are very attached to their own county and hence local authority.
Another one is a SE regional authority but I can only imagine the WW3 that would ensue with "who got what" etc etc.

zulutango

road_high wrote: »

People are very attached to their own county and hence local authority.

There would be no need for the GAA boundaries to change. Why are GAA boundaries linked to local authority boundaries anyway?

road_high wrote: »

Another one is a SE regional authority but I can only imagine the WW3 that would ensue with "who got what" etc etc.

Everybody benefits, nobody loses.

Squidvicious

zulutango wrote: »

There would be no need for the GAA boundaries to change. Why are GAA boundaries linked to local authority boundaries anyway?



Everybody benefits, nobody loses.

Arguably, there's no need to have local authority boundaries match county boundaries either. It would make boundary switches far easier to stomach if we had some way of doing this.

As for the second bit I've bolded, I fear that every town/county would be looking in next county's picnic basket accusing their neighbours of getting more than their fair share. It's human nature to some degree.

In reality, I really think that it's all of far less importance than many people think. Councils have very limited powers in Ireland. We're a very centralised country

road_high

Squidvicious wrote: »

Admittedly, I didn't hear the interview. However, I do not see why a boundary extension is needed if you want more housing on the North side of the river. There has already been significant development. As somebody pointed out above, the population of Ferrybank in KK is almost 5,000. That's a significant increase mainly over the past 20 years or so and all done under KKCC's watch. How will WCC do it differently?

In any case, I really don't see how having the next 1,000 houses to be built locally put on the North side of the river as opposed to the South side of the river will change matters.

As I've said before, the whole reason for the extension is that WCC wants the rates.

As for the bit I've highlighted, a boundary extension will make very little difference here. One thing that Waterford badly needs is support from surrounding counties so that, for example, the local hospital and WIT are recognised as centres for the whole region. Basically, that Waterford is recognised as the centre for the region. However, it's hard to expect cooperation when you're constantly trying to move your boundary. Waterford would do far better to forget about the extension and concentrate on building good relations with neighbouring counties so that the whole region can grow.

TBH if went ahead it would finish off forever any support you'd muster in Kilkenny for anything SE based. They'll likely seek to strengthen ties with the Carlow/Laois/Kildare/Dublin corridor and abandon all support for Waterford based things.
The population of Co. Waterford is approx. 115k to 120k (correct me if I'm wrong) and Kilkenny 100k. Together we are nearly a quarter of million, I hate the idea of the county I love being diminished and compromised in a way it's existed for 100s of years. No one in Kilkenny wants to undermine Waterford in anyway, I really think this whole boundary review has been appallingly divisive and down right insulting and unnecessary. Such a waste of time when they are so many bigger issues in the country.

road_high

zulutango wrote: »

There would be no need for the GAA boundaries to change. Why are GAA boundaries linked to local authority boundaries anyway?
.

Ever since we were a "32 county state" I guess.
I'm not keen on the GAA argument personally as it's not the reason I love my county. Were Kilkenny useless at hurling I'd still have a huge emotion draw to the place, it's so much more than GAA.

JMT2016

road_high wrote: »

I really think this whole boundary review has been appallingly divisive and down right insulting and unnecessary. Such a waste of time when they are so many bigger issues in the country.

All of the time being spent on this issue which doesn't result in one extra cent coming to region or the local area affected to fix the massive issues impacting everyone.

zulutango

Squidvicious wrote: »

In reality, I really think that it's all of far less importance than many people think. Councils have very limited powers in Ireland. We're a very centralised country

With respect, I think you are incorrect there. It is true that councillors have little power but the local authorities actually have a lot of power and how they use it or misuse it has very real effects on the well-being of the people living in their jurisdiction.

zulutango

road_high wrote: »

I really think this whole boundary review has been appallingly divisive and down right insulting and unnecessary. Such a waste of time when they are so many bigger issues in the country.

Unnecessary? This is a very important issue for the development of the South East and the prosperity of the people living there. What's effectively happening here is Kilkenny is shooting itself in the foot.