Gender of a protagonist

kunst nugget

I don't care

Robert ninja wrote: »

The problem with what a lot of people are demanding when it comes to diversity in games is that games for the most part are terribly written. Often the story, narrative and characters are just there because they have to be to make some sense of the gameplay. If there is a character focus it's usually on them being 'cool' rather than actually well written. Which is fine by me. Dante and Bayonetta are fun.

So when people start asking for diversity in these games which are no more complex than the stories you see kids make up when playing with action men... you inevitably end up with token characters and tropes that people complain about even more! It pleases nobody. You want well written, diverse games? They do actually exist... and most people don't really fecking talk about them because they're niche, have odd gameplay, style or are just old or all the above. The latest ones that are pretty fair all around (Witcher 3 for example) get a lot of criticism for being sexist and racist (despite that being an ongoing topic in the books). You simply cannot win in this issue in my opinion. Does anyone read books? Then you know how they're milesahead of video games when it comes to these issues because they have to be. All there is is story and characters.

Making games more inclusive does not make them better games unless they're extremely story-focused and even then they have to be well written... which is something that in itself takes care of these issues as I just mentioned.

Honestly if this is really bothering anyone in a serious way... stop playing video games. They're not the medium you want right now. Go read some books. Watch a few good movies. Really good stories, characters, settings, themes etc. It's great, you'll have a good time I promise. If all you want is to reduce the breast size of video game characters because UNREALISTIC EXPECTATIONS, make all the women ugly (because we all know there's no pretty women around in real life) and all the men black or whatever the hell else people think is going to somehow make games more inclusive... then please go away. Yay... non whites punch people's head's off their spines too! Women burn genetically engineered zombies just as good as men! This woman is strong and independent because she just killed 100 random guys over the weekend looking for treasure. #progressive

This is the problem right here. Nobody is demanding anything on this thread. It's a discussion about what we would like or not like to see in games and it seems that if you don't agree with the status quo you should bugger off and read books instead. There's a lot of fantastic art made when people buck against the status quo when it comes to the likes of film, books and music but it seems to be an abhorrent notion to many when it comes to gaming. The initial reason for this thread is the news that Sony Computer Entertainment's head of world wide studios, Shuhei Yoshida, was nervous about unveiling a game because the protagonist was a female. Does that not seem very odd to you 2015? There's nothing about her being made ugly so as not to conform to gender stereotyping or the fact that she is a lesbian, leftwing progressive superhero who slays her male oppressors with trigger warnings, the thing that made him nervous was that she is merely a woman…

I've looked at some of Sarkeesian's videos and personally found them to be not great and pretty poorly researched but what was more interesting about them was the reaction they engendered in the conservative, libertarian elements of the gaming community. I'm sure countless youtube videos are made about the feminist angles on music, films and books and these are things that are discussed routinely in those spheres without much kerfuffle but a couple of videos are made about tropes in gaming from a feminist perspective and the world goes fücking crazy!

orubiru

I don't care

kunst nugget wrote: »

This is the problem right here. Nobody is demanding anything on this thread. It's a discussion about what we would like or not like to see in games and it seems that if you don't agree with the status quo you should bugger off and read books instead. There's a lot of fantastic art made when buck against the status quo when it comes to the likes of film, books and music but it seems to be an abhorrent notion to many when it comes to gaming. The initial reason for this thread is the news that Sony Computer Entertainment's head of world wide studios, Shuhei Yoshida, was nervous about unveiling a game because the protagonist was a female. Does that not seem very odd to you 2015? There's nothing about her being made ugly so as not to conform to gender stereotyping or the fact that she is a lesbian, leftwing progressive superhero who slays her male oppressors with trigger warnings, the thing that made him nervous was that she is merely a woman…

I've looked at some of Sarkeesian's videos and personally found them to be not great and pretty poorly researched but what was more interesting about them was the reaction the engendered in the conservative, libertarian elements of the gaming community. I'm sure countless youtube videos are made about the feminist angles on music, films and books and these are things that are discussed routinely in those spheres without much kerfuffle but a couple of videos are made about tropes in gaming from a feminist perspective and the world goes fücking crazy!

There are PLENTY of games that go against the status quo. There always have been and there always will be.

What is ridiculous is that people do not support or promote these games because they'd rather complain about the content in GTA or whatever.

When someone tells me that they don't like Tarantino movies because they are too violent and I try to recommend something else the response that I don't expect to get is "BUT I WANT TO WATCH TARANTINO MOVIES" followed by a rant about how movies are too violent. Trust me, the content you want is probably already out there. Go give them your money and recommend their stuff to others.

So when you say that Sony are concerned about releasing a game with a female protagonist then it kind of sounds like this is an extremely rare thing. Like here we are in 2015 finally releasing a game with a female protagonist and Sony are concerned about that? Hm. It doesn't match reality at all.

What seems odd to me is the way everyone seems to be pretending like there are not games out there that cater to a very wide and diverse audience. We are kidding on that a game with a female lead character is some unheard of thing. I believe that over 50% of the games promoted at E3 allowed the player to play as a female character?

So, I will leave you with this article comparing E3 2014 to E3 2015 and the different reactions.

https://medium.com/@adrianchm/the-truth-about-e3-2015-and-female-protagonists-b006094e44b1

What are your thoughts on that?

orubiru

I don't care

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

The Steam forums for Her Story are morbidly fascinating. There are genuinely people out there who believe merely having a prominent female character is some sort of grevious crime against gaming or contrived tokenism. Which to me, honestly, beggars belief.

The Tomb Raider reboot has sold over 8.5 million units worldwide.

So do you think those people on the forums are genuinely against female protagonists and does this view represent the gaming public?

Or, do you think there are just a lot of people online who like being annoying?

I could point you in the direction IMBD message boards for examples of people just being @ssholes because they can. (The response to the recent cancellation of Hannibal, for example)

johnny_ultimate

So our only options are to shut up and be happy with our lot or stop playing games (whether that's otherwise excellent individual titles or games altogether)?

That seems reasonable. *sells consoles, burns PC in pagan ceremony of some description*

kunst nugget

I don't care

orubiru wrote: »

So, I will leave you with this article comparing E3 2014 to E3 2015 and the different reactions.

https://medium.com/@adrianchm/the-truth-about-e3-2015-and-female-protagonists-b006094e44b1

What are your thoughts on that?

Hmm, that's a really interesting article. It's nice to see something to go beyond the narrative we see presented from both sides and gives us the facts. It seems odd in that instance for Yoshida to express his fears about a female protagonist. After reading through that article, the cynic in me would suggest he was saying that to drum up support for the game…

Cheers for linking that.

orubiru

I don't care

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

So our only options are to shut up and be happy with our lot or stop playing games (whether that's otherwise excellent individual titles or games altogether)?

That seems reasonable. *sells consoles, burns PC in pagan ceremony of some description*

And game publishers and developers only options are to stop making the games that they want to make (for whatever reason) and make the games that the vocal minority demand OR just stop making games altogether?

That seems reasonable. *uses rational thought and only buys games that appeal to personal tastes*

johnny_ultimate

orubiru wrote: »

Uses rational thought and only buys games that appeal to personal tastes

That's what I do And regularly those games I otherwise thoroughly enjoy contain elements I - and I'm sure many others - am not so fond of. Sometimes not just individual titles, but across a wide range of games. I'm a big fan of many Japanese RPGs and visual novels for their robust gameplay mechanics or narrative ambitions, for example, but often have some issues with their pacing or generic character tropes. It would be nice to see more of these otherwise excellent games transcend that! Think it would be a real shame to miss out on them just because of some minor but common concerns I have. Not demanding a thing, just suggesting there are changes I for one believe would lead to potentially better, more interesting games - often with changes that IMO would in no way alter the fundamental appeal or identity of the games in question.

gizmo

I don't care

orubiru wrote: »

What is ridiculous is that people do not support or promote these games because they'd rather complain about the content in GTA or whatever.

Can we just make one thing clear here please? **** these people. It's worth pointing out though that none of these people are involved in this thread nor is anyone on this thread advocating their position.

orubiru wrote: »

So when you say that Sony are concerned about releasing a game with a female protagonist then it kind of sounds like this is an extremely rare thing. Like here we are in 2015 finally releasing a game with a female protagonist and Sony are concerned about that? Hm. It doesn't match reality at all.

Personal feelings on the subject aside, the decision to make the lead character in a big budget AAA game a woman will raise eyebrows at a publisher (and marketing) level. Thankfully it's slowly becoming less of an issue as things improve, Chmielarz himself points this out at the end of his piece. Personally, I'm quite happy to see the industry slowly evolve in this manner rather than just knee-jerking in response to whatever vocal side of the fence is currently loudest.

kunst nugget

I don't care

orubiru wrote: »

There are PLENTY of games that go against the status quo. There always have been and there always will be.

What is ridiculous is that people do not support or promote these games because they'd rather complain about the content in GTA or whatever.

Tbf, just on this point, I don't know about others on here but I've never once complained about violence in games - The tweets from Sarkeesian and McIntosh in relation to Doom 4 make me die a little inside - and I think anyone on here discussing a desire for more nuanced and interesting games has put their money where their mouth is in terms of supporting these games when they're made.

Potatoeman

There is a change going on in the industry but not the one people think. AAA games are not making enough, excluding the big names. The money needed for AAA games has reached a tipping point of risk versus reward and people wonder why there are so few new ip's.

Many small/medium studios dont have fulltime writters and are brought in at the end to tag a story onto the game. So its a case of big studios not wanting to take risks and small/medium studios not having fulltime writters. I have heard that many medium budget titles might disappear as we get more indie/small games and even that the medium studios might close.

kunst nugget

I don't care

Potatoeman wrote: »

There is a change going on in the industry but not the one people think. AAA games are not making enough, excluding the big names. The money needed for AAA games has reached a tipping point of risk versus reward and people wonder why there are so few new ip's.

Many small/medium studios dont have fulltime writters and are brought in at the end to tag a story onto the game. So its a case of big studios not wanting to take risks and small/medium studios not having fulltime writters. I have heard that many medium budget titles might disappear as we get more indie/small games and even that the medium studios might close.

Something that is happening in every creative industry tbf not just gaming. Movies are generally massive blockbusters that are sequels or low budget affairs with very little made in the middle. Artists that might have been able to survive on middling sales of albums in the past have been completely wipeout so that it's either behemoths like Taylor Swift or small indie artists.

Potatoeman

kunst nugget wrote: »

Something that is happening in every creative industry tbf not just gaming. Movies are generally massive blockbusters that are sequels or low budget affairs with very little made in the middle. Artists that might have been able to survive on middling sales of albums in the past have been completely wipeout so that it's either behemoths like Taylor Swift or small indie artists.

Movies and games sure as they have big overheads. Musicians not so much. They can distribute their own music and don't have anywhere near the level of expense.

Potatoeman

I think the older you are the more likley you are to wait for price drops too. I know I rarley pay full price unless its something I really want. Maybe the games market is the same as the music industry in this regard where the target market is young because thats who represents the largest group of customers.

kunst nugget

I don't care

Potatoeman wrote: »

Movies and games sure as they have big overheads. Musicians not so much. They can distribute their own music and don't have anywhere near the level of expense.

Sure, if you're a small artist who doesn't wish to tour, you can set up a bandcamp page and make maybe €10-50 off your self produced album.

If it's anything above that, it's going to cost money. You're not running into the millions as you would with movies or games but it's prohibitive enough for people not to bother trying. Here's a band breaking down how much it cost them to do a 28 date tour and how much they made…

https://medium.com/@jackconte/pomplamoose-2014-tour-profits-67435851ba37

Links234

I don't care

orubiru wrote: »

What are your thoughts on that?

I think the collage at the end provides an interesting insight into gaming and the arguments that games don't have an issue with female characters by showcasing games from over 15 years ago. In my own opinion, things have gotten worse, and the collage pretty much shows that. It's also a great bit of nostalgia, 'cos I had a lot of those PS1 games, Dino Crisis was awesome!

I know I used Payday 2 as an example before, but I'm gonna bring that up again. A lot of players went ballistic when Overkill added the first playable female character in the game because apparently women can't be bank robbers, but when they announced the second one, Bonnie, they seriously went ape****. The main complaints were that she's fat and ugly, people were saying that they'd pay for her not to be in the game, every other thread on the official subreddit was about how much people hated Bonnie, it got so bad that the threads started getting downvoted not because people disagreed with them, but because there was so god damn much of those threads they were clogging up the front page. The less said about the Steam forums the better. And this is coming from a community that I find a lot more mature than the average online multiplayer community.

Now, this might be going off on a bit of a tangent, but talking about how things have changed in gaming, I have to wonder about how things will change in the future and if it'll be for the better. I mean, we're already seeing the rise of insanely overpriced pre-order DLC exclusives, collectors editions with tacky merchandise and all sorts of ridiculous crap, and other practices that I think your average person would find insane. Yet it's obviously a successful business model for the publishers, so someone must be paying for it and supporting it or it wouldn't work. And I kinda worry is this gonna go down the same route as the anime industry, where it's pandering to the hardcore otaku audience who actually buys the insanely overpriced merch. Things are so bad that it's this small hardcore audience that's dictating where the industry goes, and you've now got all this fanservice plagued moe-blob nonsense.

And before anyone says support the good stuff, I most certainly do! I will support great anime and often buy shows I like on Bluray, I even went as far as buying all 4 volumes of Tiger & Bunny in spite of the fact that releasing a series on 4 separate volumes containing a handful of episodes each in this day and age is downright insane, but **** it I love that show and I put my money where my mouth is and bought it. I do support things that I like, but likewise I think anyone can voice their opinion on the state of gaming.

Yay... non whites punch people's head's off their spines too! Women burn genetically engineered zombies just as good as men!

I have no idea why any of that would be considered bad.

I made a point about the homogeny of protagonists earlier in the thread, and that being perhaps a wider problem than just gender, so why would it be a problem if things were mixed up a bit? I can load up Payday 2 and play as a black guy who says "Surprise mother****ers!" when he throws a grenade, and it's glorious, just as cheesy and fun as any of the other characters. What is wrong with some diversity? It's kinda weird that when I was playing Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance, I felt like Raiden was such a different protagonist from the usual lot just because he had a different hair colour and a great ass.



...and what an ass! :pac:

Robert ninja

That's a synthetic ass and gives women unrealistic expectations about their cyborg boyfriends. That ass made me feel degraded as a man while I played the game as the camera disgustingly zoomed in around around his metal physique. Is that all men are to you?! Fit bodies to be armoured up and thrown in to slice up enemies while you get off on the way they move?

I for one want to see more diversity. :pac:

Generic Dreadhead

I don't care

#RealCyborgMenHaveCurves

whiteramekin

No

#effyourcyborgstandards

Potatoeman

kunst nugget wrote: »

Sure, if you're a small artist who doesn't wish to tour, you can set up a bandcamp page and make maybe €10-50 off your self produced album.

If it's anything above that, it's going to cost money. You're not running into the millions as you would with movies or games but it's prohibitive enough for people not to bother trying. Here's a band breaking down how much it cost them to do a 28 date tour and how much they made…

https://medium.com/@jackconte/pomplamoose-2014-tour-profits-67435851ba37

That's pretty interesting but I wonder how much was lost due to bad planning. I can see the advantage of doing smaller gigs and not risking losing money on a venue you cant fill.

Aimead

I don't care

orubiru wrote: »

What is ridiculous is that people do not support or promote these games because they'd rather complain about the content in GTA or whatever.

This ^^^^ by a hundred million.

There is something deeply wrong at the moment with the way vidya is being discussed, and I personally am finding it difficult to put my finger exactly on what it is. There seems to be an odd correlation (imho) between ‘critics’ who complain about ‘sexism in gaming’ and those who complain about violence in gaming. The whole shebang doesn’t make sense to me.

I remember diligently collecting the 10p, 20p, and 50p coins and the occasional £1 note I could get my hands on as wee lass to finally be able to buy a MegaDrive. There was no such thing as a ‘meatspace’ gaming community back then (and, where I live, still isn’t), and it wasn’t until years later when the internet came and opened up entire collectives of people who had the same interest I had in vidya. Roll on a decade of online participation in gaming forums later, interspersed with occasional (and expensive) trips to gaming events, and then suddenly the community I have felt so welcome in supposedly gained, borrowing johnny_ultimate’s language, “a significant and vocal section of the enthusiast community that is actively hostile towards women players and developers”.

WTF actually happened? I can’t recall ever seeing any of this supposed active hostility towards women, not on the forums I practically lived on, not in the banter over titles from Quake to CounterStrike, not in the all-night LAN/FRAG parties at college, not at events from Gaelcon to Dreamhack. Today I can’t go for a browse about vidya for five minutes without seeing a whole slew of claims about the gaming community that bears no relation whatsoever to my years of experience in that community. These last two years have seen what I can only describe as an infestation of perpetually offended people who seem much more interested in complaining about stuff that doesn’t really exist while poisoning everything around them with bull**** identity politics. These people don’t seem to spend much time discussing/playing vidya (the entire point those online communities existed in the first place). I’ve been told so many times now that I have ‘internalized misogyny’ that I truly wonder whether it is some sort of self-induced brainwashing thought-stopper.

The dominant thought in my head is to ask “who the hell made all this **** up?”, but that question doesn’t really make any sense. The result of the poll in this thread doesn’t surprise one little bit, and I suspect you’d would have obtained the same result for previous years, which leads a second question to pop into my head – “why would anyone find the results surprising?” What could possibly have made Sony executives believe that a female protagonist would be badly received by the gaming community???? I honestly doesn’t truly know the answer to that one, whether it is due to the media or said executives being really dense – but I can definitely say the reason didn’t come from the gaming communities.

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

But I'm going to have to agree to disagree that the wider industry and socioeconomic trends aren't worthy of critique. I think it's important to look at why gaming isn't more inclusive, because I don't think it's the one and only 'right' state of affairs, and try to promote positive change.

This is the sort of posting on this topic that absolutely infuriates me tbh. What is stopping any person, be they man, woman or the Pope of fecking Rome from buying any vidya? Are people going into their home and forcibly preventing women from buying and enjoying vidya, and that these mysterious forces somehow missed me out?

I think the utter absurdity of what you say here can be highlighted by applying the same language thusly:
“But I'm going to have to agree to disagree that the wider industry and socioeconomic trends aren't worthy of critique. I think it's important to look at why playing with Barbie dolls isn't more inclusive, because I don't think it's the one and only 'right' state of affairs, and try to promote positive change.”

When I was at school I was the only one into vidya among my friends. I may have been the only one in my school but I don’t know for sure. I was the only one in my year that went on to do computer science at college. In those days internet wasn’t really a thing, so there was never a ‘gaming community’ to have been part of. So why was I the only one into vidya? My parents weren’t exactly flush, and one Christmas they gave me a second hand Spectrum. And I was hooked. None of my friends got a Spectrum (although some of them got the dollhouse that I had wanted). It should be quite simple to understand that if an interest in computers isn’t cultivated then…well…then there won’t be any interest in computers (and, by extension, vidya).

Thought experiment time: you have two children. One of them you give lego sets, meccano, and general stuff that they can tinker with. The other you give dolls and dollhouses. Is it really so difficult to understand why one child, having their interest in tinker set alight, would go on to do engineering or science at college while the other, having never had their interests in such things kindled, won’t? You have let “socioeconomic trends” blind you from seeing the forest for the trees imo.

I think it's important to talk about the sections of the gaming community that make it a very hostile, unwelcoming place and see what we can do to make it less so.

The barrier for entry for YouTube, Twitter, etc., is so low that you get many trolls and idiots, and thus a really crap level of discourse. Anyone remember playing things like CounterStrike with a headset? Took a little bit of configuring so only your dedicated vidya players got there – and the discourse was quite good. I remember one night with some Aussies having a roaring time trading philosophical insults. The barrier for entry for that was higher than the average Xbox CoD-fest – hence why discourse on that platform is almost universally ****.

The point is that you are confusing an internet phenomenon with a vidya phenomenon. In the early days of YouTube the comments were actually quite good. As the medium became more accessible and widespread it gradually went to ****. It’s the same phenomenon, but let’s ignore that obvious explanation and lob a few more grenades at vidya players. After all – we’re responsible for Satanism and violence right? That the jibes on YouTube, Twitter, Xbox live, etc, target everyone (regardless of creed, gender, race, etc.) is ignored for some reason – if you picked ANY discernible characteristic you’d find abuse hurled at that, so why are we in vidya considered so fragile that we (by ‘we’ I mean women) have to be singled out and championed by pricks who quite often seem to know feck all about vidya?

To be clear, you’re perfectly free to make all sorts of disparaging remarks towards those who indulge in vidya. I’m too much of proponent of free speech to argue otherwise, and have never considered falsity to be a valid reason to ask someone to cease discussion.

End. Of. Rant. It was a shyte day at work and that was rather cathartic.

whiteramekin

No

whatever side anyone takes in this 'debate', i think any reasonable person can agree that the use of the term 'vidya' should be met with lethal and immediate force.

Gbear

I don't care

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

The Steam forums for Her Story are morbidly fascinating. There are genuinely people out there who believe merely having a prominent female character is some sort of grevious crime against gaming or contrived tokenism. Which to me, honestly, beggars belief.

Not to comment on that game or community in particular (I haven't heard of it) but I think a lot of people, myself included, are more interested in the correct process rather than a superficial result.

I don't think I want to see anything made through a box ticking exercise.
That goes for virtually all goods money can buy.

Whether it's
-food that just has the right numbers of calories, nutrients and fat that makes it 100% healthy, vs making nice food as a creative process by someone who cares and knows what they're doing

-a car that's designed to be enviromentally friendly, rather than one that happens to be because it's well designed

-a movie industry that has perfectly proportioned casts that accurately reflects the demographic makeup of the US (because they're not going to look further abroad than that) rather than having interesting stories to tell and picking the best people for the job, and incidentally picking the appropriate spectrum of people because that's where the talent is, both in acting and creating a story.

-a political system that mandates arbitrary quotas of genders or racial groups vs a political system that has an appropriate level of representation across many different subsets of people because the right people can get into politics irrespective of their backgrounds.

When some mega corporation comes out with, basically, "Look at all the black women we have now! Aren't we great!?" it pisses me off.

It's completely cynical, pandering, condescending, and it generally makes for a **** product as well.

Some see it as a progress.
If it is it's utterly shallow progress, and certainly does nothing to advance the medium as an artistic exercise, nor does it genuinely advance people's understanding of one another's problems.

A "fixed" industry, would be one where there are good stories being told, nobody gives a **** about the subject matter's politically correct cred, and incidentally, a wide range of people are both showcased and catered to.

Solving the problem in that way would certainly be harder, but like with things like gender quotas in politics, I think it's the only problem worth solving in this debate.

I see this as a problem to be solved. You see what's causing it and you try and prod and poke to make improvements. There won't be a magic bullet but you'll get there in the end (and we are getting there - we're in a remarkably peaceful, equal and prosperous time in human history).
I feel like some people want to cheat. They want instant results so they want to try and cook the books, thinking that that constitutes progress.

I just see that as manipulative marketing by businesses and ego-stroking bull**** from everyone else.

Robert ninja

whiteramekin wrote: »

whatever side anyone takes in this 'debate', i think any reasonable person can agree that the use of the term 'vidya' should be met with lethal and immediate force.

I shall now exclusively refer to games as vidya while on this board now :pac:

johnny_ultimate

Gbear wrote: »

A "fixed" industry, would be one where there are good stories being told, nobody gives a **** about the subject matter's politically correct cred, and incidentally, a wide range of people are both showcased and catered to.

You'll find no disagreement from me with this statement

CiDeRmAn

I don't care

Robert ninja wrote: »

I shall now exclusively refer to games as vidya while on this board now :pac:

I had to look it up.
Ffs, some people are so hip they have problems seeing over their pelvis.

K.O.Kiki

Atari Jaguar

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

I had to look it up.
Ffs, some people are so hip they have problems seeing over their pelvis.

It's really anti-hip tbh :pac:

CiDeRmAn

I don't care

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

It's really anti-hip tbh :pac:

I'm not convinced.
Some people try so hard to interpret the blindingly obvious or something that already has a perfectly good description as something niche.
This strikes me as similar.

K.O.Kiki

Atari Jaguar

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

I'm not convinced.
Some people try so hard to interpret the blindingly obvious or something that already has a perfectly good description as something niche.
This strikes me as similar.

"vidya gaems" is simply a purposeful misspelling that rose to memetic status on 4chan.

Dunno what you looked up! :pac:

Robert ninja

The anti-meme brigade, listen to them. They always stay on top of what's a hot meme and what's not.

HOT: pacman smilie :pac:

NOT: "vidya"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmmQxXPOMMY

Aimead

I don't care

Robert ninja wrote: »

The anti-meme brigade, listen to them. They always stay on top of what's a hot meme and what's not.

This got me thinking. For the purpose of discussion, suppose we considered the “gamerz h8 wimminz” as being a meme. What can we notice/opine/speculate?

Consider this from the OP: “I think now we're obviously seeing more diversity in games with different protagonists both male and female. We can see that even with this E3 with games such as the one in the article, Horizon, Recore etc which do have a female protagonist.”

I’m not picking on or intending to disparage the OP here, but there does seem to be ‘meme’ that this year’s E3 was somehow a ‘revolution’ or ‘breakthrough’ for women in gaming. Genuine questions for thread participants here:

1) Did you follow E3 2014 closely?
2) If so, how did E3 2014 compare with E3 2015 in terms of representation of women in the games on display?

In the aftermath of E3 2015 there were plenty of articles about this year being a breakthrough year. There were brief moments where I wondered to myself whether I am seriously biased or suffering from a severely faulty memory because, to me at least, 2015 didn’t seem to represent any real change from 2014 (even some of the vidya getting praised are sequels whose previous version had the choice of women charaters). Orubiru posted an article earlier in the thread that did a comparison between 2014 and 2015. But, and this is puzzling to me, why is this narrative so prevalent when (at least to anyone who actually follows vidya) it is so obviously bull****? To go back full circle in this thought – why has this (imo blatantly) false meme spread like wildfire?

It seems to me that there is a large amount of narrative being synthesised by the media ‘reporting’ on this. Taking Polygon as an example since it was linked in the OP, that magazine published article after article pushing the “gamerz h8 wimminz”. If you grant the (not unreasonable imo) premise that the Sony executives were influenced by such articles then you reach a fascinating conclusion: that magazines like Polygon are essentially reporting on a controversy that they played a small role in creating.

And all the while these memes spread in spite of the real attitudes espoused by this thread’s (admittedly highly unscientific) poll. I really don’t get it at all. Any takers on offering a working hypothesis? Because I’ve got nothing.