Reseeding 2015

Farrell

DK man wrote: »

I reseeded 12 acres and it is flying. Topped it last week as annual weeds were starting to race ahead of the grass. I'm very happy with the job so far. I spent about 14 hrs gathering stones and have most lifted - no big ones left!!!!

I originally intended to graze 50 ewes and 30 lambs but it's far too rich and long now and I have enough grass in 3 other paddocks. It got 3 bags of 18 6 12 / acre. I will now cut it mid August - I'm a bit concerned about stones!!!! I lifted a lot of stones but I've surly missed some...

Any opinions are most welcome....

Just on the stones, would you roll in the back end?

DK man

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Have you grazes it at all?
I'd advise against mowing a reseed in its 1st yr.
It would tiller out as well

No didn't graze it - I had intended grazing it but it's too strong - ewes are fat enough on the grazing they have... I topped it and it's growing strongly...


I didn't roll it as I don't have a roller and not sure my 35 would be fit to pull a heavy roller!!!!

raypallas

Gave our 6 acres a shot of legumex today, it was seeded the last week of may. Its flying now, looking forward to getting it grazed. Would i be right in saying to wait 10 days after the spray? Sprayed off another 7 while we were at it.

CloughCasey1

raypallas wrote: »

Gave our 6 acres a shot of legumex today, it was seeded the last week of may. Its flying now, looking forward to getting it grazed. Would i be right in saying to wait 10 days after the spray? Sprayed off another 7 while we were at it.

Will Legumex protect the clover?

jfh

lads, new to this, might get an opinion of the more experienced;
reseeding an old meadow that hasn't been reseeded in over 35 years.
going with a an early grazing mix for sheep & sucklers;
3kg Tyrella
3kg Abergain
3kg Aberchoice
3kg Astonenergy

presume it's decent?

hope to spray off ground with gallup 360, leave for 3 weeks.

i got soil analysis last spring & the field requires lime, that should be spread before the power harrow right?
would i be able to put gran lime out with spreader before harrowing.

any thoughts much appreciated

Count Mondego

jfh wrote: »

lads, new to this, might get an opinion of the more experienced;
reseeding an old meadow that hasn't been reseeded in over 35 years.
going with a an early grazing mix for sheep & sucklers;
3kg Tyrella
3kg Abergain
3kg Aberchoice
3kg Astonenergy

presume it's decent?

hope to spray off ground with gallup 360, leave for 3 weeks.

i got soil analysis last spring & the field requires lime, that should be spread before the power harrow right?
would i be able to put gran lime out with spreader before harrowing.

any thoughts much appreciated

Is that a 50:50 tetraploid diploid mix? For grazing should have higher percentage of diploid. Working off memory here with your mix so could be wrong

jfh

Count Mondego wrote: »

Is that a 50:50 tetraploid diploid mix? For grazing should have higher percentage of diploid. Working off memory here with your mix so could be wrong

Count, tyrella is the only diploid, the rest are all tetraploids. i'm thinking it's a good mix if it's sold like that.

would i be better to put out gran lime before harrowing or push out ground lime a few months later onto the new grass seed?

edit : i read somewhere that a grazing mix should be <40% tetraploids
this mix goes against that.

anyone have experience of using similar mix

browned

jfh wrote: »

Count, tyrella is the only diploid, the rest are all tetraploids. i'm thinking it's a good mix if it's sold like that.

would i be better to put out gran lime before harrowing or push out ground lime a few months later onto the new grass seed?

aberchoice is also a diploid so its a 50/50mix

running the mix through the ppi your looking at the following outcome

your mix has a ppi of £155
spring growth value of £29
summer growth value of £41
autumn growth value of £38
quality value of £42
silage value of £12
persistency of £-7 thing this equates to 11 years of production.
and an nice close heading date for all varieties.
looks a well balanced mix of grass seed to be honest

Username John

browned wrote: »

aberchoice is also a diploid so its a 50/50mix

running the mix through the ppi your looking at the following outcome

your mix has a ppi of £155
spring growth value of £29
summer growth value of £41
autumn growth value of £38
quality value of £42
silage value of £12
persistency of £-7 thing this equates to 11 years of production.
and an nice close heading date for all varieties.
looks a well balanced mix of grass seed to be honest

How / where you work that out Browned?
Is the PPI online, or is only available to Teagasc customers?

raypallas

CloughCasey1 wrote:

Will Legumex protect the clover?

It says it should, but time will tell!

browned

Username John wrote: »

How / where you work that out Browned?
Is the PPI online, or is only available to Teagasc customers?

http://www.agresearch.teagasc.ie/moorepark/PastureProfitIndex/ppts/TeagascPastureProfitIndex2015.pdf

its on the moorepark homepage. hopefully this is a link

since the mix is using 4 grass varieties of equal quantity all you do is add up the economic values for each trail and divide by 4 to get the average
for example on spring growth the 4 values for each of the grasses are £41+42+24+10=£117/4=£29

Robson99

How do you work out how many years persistence Browned ?
-€7 = 11 years ??

browned

Robson99 wrote: »

How do you work out how many years persistence Browned ?
-€7 = 11 years ??

asked one of the researcher at the mp open day. he said -11 equated to 10 years and -28 equated to 8 years. obviously management has a huge factor to play in this. think 0 is 12 years so just went half way with the -7 and said 11

Robson99

Going with the following mix for predominately grazing fields
Abergain. 3kg
Aston Energy. 3kg
Aberchoice. 5kg
Glenveagh. 4kg

15kg per acre. 60% dip 40% tet. Thoughts???

browned

Robson99 wrote: »

Going with the following mix for predominately grazing fields
Abergain. 3kg
Aston Energy. 3kg
Aberchoice. 5kg
Glenveagh. 4kg

15kg per acre. 60% dip 40% tet. Thoughts???

Looks a solid enough mix. How does it work out ppi wise? Abergain, aberchoice and Aston energy seem to be the most popular combination of grasses out there. Is that the top 5 extend mix?
Have a look at drumbo as an alternative diploid to glenveagh maybe. Have it in two reclaimed paddocks as a monoculture and I'm very happy with it. Have glenveagh as a monoculture on a normal reseed and it hasn't impressed so far. In a mix it probably wouldn't make much of a difference

Greengrass1

browned wrote: »

Looks a solid enough mix. How does it work out ppi wise? Abergain, aberchoice and Aston energy seem to be the most popular combination of grasses out there. Is that the top 5 extend mix?
Have a look at drumbo as an alternative diploid to glenveagh maybe. Have it in two reclaimed paddocks as a monoculture and I'm very happy with it. Have glenveagh as a monoculture on a normal reseed and it hasn't impressed so far. In a mix it probably wouldn't make much of a difference

We're you in moorepark today browned?

Robson99

browned wrote: »

Looks a solid enough mix. How does it work out ppi wise? Abergain, aberchoice and Aston energy seem to be the most popular combination of grasses out there. Is that the top 5 extend mix?
Have a look at drumbo as an alternative diploid to glenveagh maybe. Have it in two reclaimed paddocks as a monoculture and I'm very happy with it. Have glenveagh as a monoculture on a normal reseed and it hasn't impressed so far. In a mix it probably wouldn't make much of a difference

PPI ave 160. Mix I came up with myself. Had it a bit of a toss up between Drumbo and Glenveagh. Was going it Glenveagh but purely on better ground cover. Maybe id be better with Drumbo ?

browned

Greengrass1 wrote: »

We're you in moorepark today browned?

Nope wasn't able to make it. Too busy. We're you at it, if so any good?

Greengrass1

browned wrote: »

Nope wasn't able to make it. Too busy. We're you at it, if so any good?

Very good I thought.
Biggest thing is need to get the varieties that are going into the dafm trials need to go on farm at same time to get info off them before there approved. No point in only getting them on farm when there approved. Michael will need to be getting more seed thiugh to do this.
3/400 kgs of one variety not enough needs 1ton min.
very worthwhile programme and alot of info is going to be got out if it for both farmer and teagasc

browned

Robson99 wrote: »

PPI ave 160. Mix I came up with myself. Had it a bit of a toss up between Drumbo and Glenveagh. Was going it Glenveagh but purely on better ground cover. Maybe id be better with Drumbo ?

Hard one to answer as there is little between either grass. If you'd favour ground cover go with your original choice glenveagh.
management style, local climate, land type and enterprise Would be contributing factors in choosing varieties for me. For example I'd graze fairly tight with dairy cows and wiuldnt take a lot of paddocks out as bales or even top. I've some paddock which haven't been cut in over 8 years. Therefore quality is a trait I'd require from my grass and hriund cover wouldn't matter as highly. On the other hand if I took out more paddocks for silage quality wouldn't be as much of an issue for me due to the after grass effect but maybe ground cover would as silage opens up paddocks more than tight grazing.

browned

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Very good I thought.
Biggest thing is need to get the varieties that are going into the dafm trials need to go on farm at same time to get info off them before there approved. No point in only getting them on farm when there approved. Michael will need to be getting more seed thiugh to do this.
3/400 kgs of one variety not enough needs 1ton min.
very worthwhile programme and alot of info is going to be got out if it for both farmer and teagasc

Am I understanding you correctly in that a gene Ireland test bull style programme for grass seed is needed? Could get very risky for the test farmers sowing untested varieties? Good for the industry as a whole tho

Greengrass1

browned wrote: »

Am I understanding you correctly in that a gene Ireland test bull style programme for grass seed is needed? Could get very risky for the test farmers sowing untested varieties? Good for the industry as a whole tho

Yep next step is genomics. Oak Park are 2 yrs out from it pat connaughon said today.
That was said alright that the wrong variety will come to farm level quicker with genomics so animals will have to be brought into the equation in the breeding programme to eliminate that problem.
Getting higher production grasses should take 5-7 yrs instead of the current 15

Count Mondego

jfh wrote: »

Count, tyrella is the only diploid, the rest are all tetraploids. i'm thinking it's a good mix if it's sold like that.

would i be better to put out gran lime before harrowing or push out ground lime a few months later onto the new grass seed?

edit : i read somewhere that a grazing mix should be <40% tetraploids
this mix goes against that.

anyone have experience of using similar mix

Jfh,

I actually used those 4 varieties last year in a reseed, but I adjusted the kgs of each to make it 60% diploid. I also added 2 types of clover. Total mix was 16kg per acre which is a mighty job. Make sure to fire in 3 bags of 10-10-20 or whatever else it needs. Best reseed I've seen in a long while and gave a great crop of silage this year. Put down the gran lime as it's been tilled and it will also deal with surface acidity as the old grass/ roots rot.

browned

Greengrass1 wrote: »

so animals will have to be brought into the equation in the breeding programme to eliminate that problem. 15

Not fully following this part, is that the cutting only trials will be shortened and grazing trials with the grasses introduced quicker?

Cutting the waiting time from 15 to 5 years would be worth a lot of €€€€. is there a level of risk in introducing aggressive subspecies of grass. Way easier to contain and remove substandard bovine genetics than grass genetic

jfh

browned wrote: »

aberchoice is also a diploid so its a 50/50mix

running the mix through the ppi your looking at the following outcome

your mix has a ppi of £155
spring growth value of £29
summer growth value of £41
autumn growth value of £38
quality value of £42
silage value of £12
persistency of £-7 thing this equates to 11 years of production.
and an nice close heading date for all varieties.
looks a well balanced mix of grass seed to be honest

Sorry your right. Thanks for thorough answer. Will check out that ppi

jfh

Count Mondego wrote: »

Jfh,

I actually used those 4 varieties last year in a reseed, but I adjusted the kgs of each to make it 60% diploid. I also added 2 types of clover. Total mix was 16kg per acre which is a mighty job. Make sure to fire in 3 bags of 10-10-20 or whatever else it needs. Best reseed I've seen in a long while and gave a great crop of silage this year. Put down the gran lime as it's been tilled and it will also deal with surface acidity as the old grass/ roots rot.

Was going with 4 bags of seed for 3acres which works out at 16kg. Was leaving the clover out.
Good reseeding section in the examiner today

Greengrass1

browned wrote: »

Not fully following this part, is that the cutting only trials will be shortened and grazing trials with the grasses introduced quicker?

Cutting the waiting time from 15 to 5 years would be worth a lot of €€€€. is there a level of risk in introducing aggressive subspecies of grass. Way easier to contain and remove substandard bovine genetics than grass genetic

Breeding trials will be shortened aswell as cutting trials. Finding the varieties with what traits are wanted will be faster.
It was the farmers that haf 2 monoculturesin one paddock that suggested animals will have to be brought in by the grass breeders to test grasses because these farmers found cows would instantly go to one grass variety over the other on only pick away at the other variety

supersean1999

Whats the shortest and longest time ye leave ground thats sprayed and then ploughed before going in with power harrow, could it be done the day its ploughed or have ye left it a month before harrowing etc, thanks

Greengrass1

supersean1999 wrote: »

Whats the shortest and longest time ye leave ground thats sprayed and then ploughed before going in with power harrow, could it be done the day its ploughed or have ye left it a month before harrowing etc, thanks

Go in asap. Would want it back growing grass as quick as possible

Greengrass1

Decided to reseed another 5 ac here.
Going to spray off and mow best way isn't it?

bogman_bass

supersean1999 wrote: »

Whats the shortest and longest time ye leave ground thats sprayed and then ploughed before going in with power harrow, could it be done the day its ploughed or have ye left it a month before harrowing etc, thanks

nothing to be gained by leaving it.

jfh

bogman_bass wrote: »

nothing to be gained by leaving it.

It recommends on the roundup to leave for 14 days. You saying you can go in straight away?

Possibly misunderstood post. I mean leave it 14 days after spraying

3 the square

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Decided to reseed another 5 ac here.
Going to spray off and mow best way isn't it?

spray,graze,top,fym,plough,roll,lime,powerharrow once hopefully,roll or harrow, fert. sup of rain small happy days:)

Greengrass1

3 the square wrote: »

spray,graze,top,fym,plough,roll,lime,powerharrow once hopefully,roll or harrow, fert. sup of rain small happy days:)

Won't be ploughed be DD.
be torture ploughing it. Field prob hasn't been reseeded in 25 yrs plus and has a avenue of 250 + yr old lime and beach trees

degetme

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Won't be ploughed be DD.
be torture ploughing it. Field prob hasn't been reseeded in 25 yrs plus and has a avenue of 250 + yr old lime and beach trees

you don't have to Plough along by the trees. Pull soil over with the land leveler and give it a run of power harrow then

bogman_bass

jfh wrote: »

It recommends on the roundup to leave for 14 days. You saying you can go in straight away?

Possibly misunderstood post. I mean leave it 14 days after spraying

Sorry I thought you meant the gap between ploughing and harrowing. Give it the full two weeks and if it's an old this lea give it the full dose of round-up

td5man

https://youtu.be/PGMGCJkDR60

just do it

A slow process due to heavy ground and weather:

Limestone Cowboy

just do it wrote: »

A slow process due to heavy ground and weather:

I admire your record keeping!

just do it

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

I admire your record keeping!

Has developed over the years due to forgetfulness. The mobile has replaced my brain :rolleyes:;)

just do it

So folks to stoke the coals a bit I'm going to suggest rolling of ground for reseeds is overrated (and I hope I'm not talking too soon!). My first reseed 2 years ago was disc and power harrowed on consecutive days and the seed and fertiliser was applied the next day. About half of it got slurry and the other half was rolled. There was no difference between the 2 halves.

Last year I did a full no till other than the chain harrow and didn't roll it and it took.

This year I disc and power harrowed with a break in between because the ground got wet. I felt it was a bit more open than I'd like and was talking to the contractor about rolling and he reckoned there was no need. His recommendation was to chain harrow it after the power harrow and then spread the seed. I didn't do that as there was impending rain and stayed going to 4am to get the seed out. Sure enough the rain came the following morning so glad I did it.

Maybe it's because I'm in a high rainfall area that I'm getting away without rolling it? Moisture gives the required contact with the soil?

agriman27

Interesting opinion, I have read on other threads that you should be able to cycle a push bike around and leave no mark before you spread the seed and other people talking about the three rs 'roll roll roll'. It's not something I know much about myself ha ha

just do it

agriman27 wrote: »

Interesting opinion, I have read on other threads that you should be able to cycle a push bike around and leave no mark before you spread the seed and other people talking about the three rs 'roll roll roll'. It's not something I know much about myself ha ha

There would be no reseeding done on the west coast waiting for such conditions! When this ground was sprayed off it was at its driest in years. Since then there's been no long than 2-3 dry days in a row. And I still consider it a good summer. The total rainfall has been low it's just it's been frequent showers.

agriman27

just do it wrote: »

There would be no reseeding done on the west coast waiting for such conditions! When this ground was sprayed off it was at its driest in years. Since then there's been no long than 2-3 dry days in a row. And I still consider it a good summer. The total rainfall has been low it's just it's been frequent showers.

I understand what it's like, I have heavy land here too, it's a constant battle to keep on top of drainage issues. I find it drains my finances and it doesn't increase profitability it's just costly maintenance work.

Username John

just do it wrote: »

So folks to stoke the coals a bit I'm going to suggest rolling of ground for reseeds is overrated (and I hope I'm not talking too soon!). My first reseed 2 years ago was disc and power harrowed on consecutive days and the seed and fertiliser was applied the next day. About half of it got slurry and the other half was rolled. There was no difference between the 2 halves.

Last year I did a full no till other than the chain harrow and didn't roll it and it took.

This year I disc and power harrowed with a break in between because the ground got wet. I felt it was a bit more open than I'd like and was talking to the contractor about rolling and he reckoned there was no need. His recommendation was to chain harrow it after the power harrow and then spread the seed. I didn't do that as there was impending rain and stayed going to 4am to get the seed out. Sure enough the rain came the following morning so glad I did it.

Maybe it's because I'm in a high rainfall area that I'm getting away without rolling it? Moisture gives the required contact with the soil?

Have reseeded a few times here.
1st time - Set with a seed barrow, rolled with ordinary roller
2nd - One pass, then Cambridge / ring roller
3rd - One pass, No roll

Now, it could be different between a one pass and broadcasting the seed.

But I don't plan on rolling next bit of reseeding (mainly cos the ground is high, and a roller would do more damage than good)

Milked out

Main reason for rolling is to have a firm seed bed for contact in dry conditions mainly. A few people here recommend not to roll if ground is moist as it would compact the ground and also the soil can stick to Toller and take seed with it. Never roll prior to setting here but would after unless it rains, as much to bury stones as an thing else

Robson99

Milked out wrote: »

Main reason for rolling is to have a firm seed bed for contact in dry conditions mainly. A few people here recommend not to roll if ground is moist as it would compact the ground and also the soil can stick to Toller and take seed with it. Never roll prior to setting here but would after unless it rains, as much to bury stones as an thing else

Same as that here

just do it

Milked out wrote: »

Main reason for rolling is to have a firm seed bed for contact in dry conditions mainly. A few people here recommend not to roll if ground is moist as it would compact the ground and also the soil can stick to Toller and take seed with it. Never roll prior to setting here but would after unless it rains, as much to bury stones as an thing else

Contractor said similar. His problem with rolling was it would form a crust and prevent water penetration. This advice was given 24 hours ahead of a forecast deluge. Whilst it rained, it wasn't as bad as forecast. Plenty small showers with warm humid conditions since so confident it will take.

Greengrass1

Did a ph test on field I sprayed off today.
ph 5 5 under trees and 6.4 in centre of field.

4 bags of phisolith going around headlands and 2 on rest if the field

mahoney_j

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Did a ph test on field I sprayed off today.
ph 5 5 under trees and 6.4 in centre of field.

4 bags of phisolith going around headlands and 2 on rest if the field

Why the phylosith gg.i priced and looked at it when doing my reseed 2 weeks ago and couldn't justify the price 245 a tonne.200 kg per acre at reseed and 100 kg every year then.put out 2 tonne ground lime at 23 euro an acre spread and I'll get 4/5 years before it'll need any again