Non-unique addresses in Ireland

larchill

Remember someone told me they had visitors once who sent a thank you card addressed as: 'the house with the big long window'! They had a particularly long window alright. The post got to them alright! Only in Ireland!

marmurr1916

Worth reading. About 47,000 properties with no discernible owners have been tracked down using a google maps system:

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/google-maps-system-used-to-track-property-tax-on-homes-1.2271076

GreatDefector

marmurr1916 wrote: »

Worth reading. About 47,000 properties with no discernible owners have been tracked down using a google maps system:

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/google-maps-system-used-to-track-property-tax-on-homes-1.2271076

That article says: to date no LPT cases have been referred to court action.


Funny,because this one went to court...

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/withdrawing-household-charge-action-does-not-set-precedent-1.2139264

Both irish times. Poor research there

Sam Russell

Strictly speaking - it was a Household Charge and not LPT.

plodder

I would have thought house names are the most practical solution. My address is of the form:

House-name
post-town
Co XXX

Four words and it's completely reliable In fact I can google my house name and it often goes straight to the right one. Though I imagine a townland name would be normally required. In fact, I can't understand how people who complain about non unique addresses, don't use house names.

Sam Russell

Numbering non-unique addresses will not work without a street name and a structure of where to start and how to do it. However, to name a house is easy - just do it. Obviously, like email addresses, duplicates must be avoided so a database needs to be set up by somebody but given that, it just needs a bit of public will to get on with it. 'Burke's' or 'The White House' will do. The name will remain after the Burkes move out or they repaint the house yellow.

People also need to display their house name or number at the gate post for this to work. I do not understand how anyone can be against such a simple approach.

plodder

Sam Russell wrote: »

Numbering non-unique addresses will not work without a street name and a structure of where to start and how to do it. However, to name a house is easy - just do it. Obviously, like email addresses, duplicates must be avoided so a database needs to be set up by somebody but given that, it just needs a bit of public will to get on with it. 'Burke's' or 'The White House' will do. The name will remain after the Burkes move out or they repaint the house yellow.

People also need to display their house name or number at the gate post for this to work. I do not understand how anyone can be against such a simple approach.

House names would have to be unique (and therefore registered) in each townland. And townlands would have to be unique per post-town.

Sam Russell

plodder wrote: »

House names would have to be unique (and therefore registered) in each townland. And townlands would have to be unique per post-town.

Yes of course.

House name - unique as checked against a database.
Townland, Barony - already unique but spelling may vary.
Post town - unique but see below.
County - unique.

There may be a problem with the Barony being missed out in an address and replaced by the Post town but that is trivial to sort out. If the Barony is being swapped for Post town then duplicates of townlands should be identified and changes made. Eventually, the county could be missed off the address.

All this should have been done as part of the postcode introduction. Eircode has failed to do any of this.

Bayberry

Sam Russell wrote: »

Numbering non-unique addresses will not work without a street name and a structure of where to start and how to do it.

Every public road in the country already has a number. All you need to do is assign numbers, based on distance from the appropriate junction.

Pick your own house name is an even stupider standard than eirccodes. Eircodes are "not compulsory", so there can't be any philosophical objection to assigning house numbers based on already existing road numbers, which would be just as "non compulsory" as eircodes are - they just wouldn't need a database lookup.

Sam Russell

Bayberry wrote: »

Every public road in the country already has a number. All you need to do is assign numbers, based on distance from the appropriate junction.

Pick your own house name is an even stupider standard than eirccodes. Eircodes are "not compulsory", so there can't be any philosophical objection to assigning house numbers based on already existing road numbers, which would be just as "non compulsory" as eircodes are - they just wouldn't need a database lookup.

The point about naming houses instead of numbering arises from the likely contention as which end of the unnamed road is the start. Since local authorities do not put signs up as a matter of course, nor can they guarantee that locals would accept the name/number of the road as part of their address, nor which end is the start. However, they, the locals, should accept a name they derive themselves as they do with email addresses. The big problem will come when they must paint it on their gatepost.

It is intended as the first step in the long battle to eradicate non-unique addresses. A start must be made before it can be accomplished.

Greentree_uk

Sam Russell wrote: »

The point about naming houses instead of numbering arises from the likely contention as which end of the unnamed road is the start. Since local authorities do not put signs up as a matter of course, nor can they guarantee that locals would accept the name/number of the road as part of their address, nor which end is the start. However, they, the locals, should accept a name they derive themselves as they do with email addresses. The big problem will come when they must paint it on their gatepost.

It is intended as the first step in the long battle to eradicate non-unique addresses. A start must be made before it can be accomplished.

Lived in a small town where there were two identical addresses for a number of houses, I assume the builder had a great idea.. E.g. Two. 1 Abbott roads

joujoujou

Bayberry wrote: »

Every public road in the country already has a number. All you need to do is assign numbers, based on distance from the appropriate junction.

[...]

That's not enough in terms of non-unique address.

Unlike national and regional roads in Ireland, local road numbers are unique within each administrative county, but are not unique nationwide.

Sam Russell

Greentree_uk wrote: »

Lived in a small town where there were two identical addresses for a number of houses, I assume the builder had a great idea.. E.g. Two. 1 Abbott roads

You will get that when no-one is responsible. An irresponsible builder - who would believe it?

justbored

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Greentree_uk

Sam Russell wrote: »

You will get that when no-one is responsible. An irresponsible builder - who would believe it?

Trust me we live in a world where people In IT don't understand unique addressing so we could hardly expect a builder to understand this fundamental, Of course this is Ireland that is if he is even a builder at all and not a layman

Bayberry

joujoujou wrote: »

That's not enough in terms of non-unique address.

Seriously? You can't figure out that
1 O'Connell St, Limerick is not the same address as 1 O'Connell St Dublin?

Sam Russell

justbored wrote: »

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OK you have thirty houses in the townland.

Currently you all use the address:-

Ballybegmore, Littlebigtown, county Summat.

Well you decide a name for your house - Burkes, because that is your name and you register it with whoever.

Your address is now Burkes, Ballybegmore, Littlebigtown, Co. Summat.

Your neighbour, who is also called Burke tries to name his Burkes but cannot because you have it so he calls his house 'The White House' even though it is in fact green. His address is now :-
The White House, Ballybegmore, Littlebigtown, Co. Summat.

And so on.

Simple isn't it.

Only job left is to go and paint it on the gate post.

justbored

This post has been deleted.

Sam Russell

Well, if you do not want a name (I can't think why) then give it a number - any number as long as no-one has taken it in your townland already. The new occupants of your house might also be called Burke, and anyway they can always change the name, subject to it being unique within the townland.

Putting names on houses would only be the first attempt at removing non-unique addresses. In time, all roads would get a name and all houses on that road would get a number based on the distance along the road, odds on one side evens on the other.

To solve the non-unique addresses, a start has to be made. All proposed houses should have a proper unique address, which the planning departments could approve/assign. Existing houses could assign house names as a start. This should have been done as part of the postcode project but there you go.

threeiron

Surely property numbers are the only option. Names are too personal and next owner wants to change.

Sam Russell

threeiron wrote: »

Surely property numbers are the only option. Names are too personal and next owner wants to change.

Well you would think that but how do you number houses randomly located across a townland and not on neat urban roads, and in a townland with no name for the road and no notion which end is the start. At least a name will uniquely identify the house within the townland. Numbering can came after the road names are agreed, and assigned. So what if the new owner wants it changed - same rules apply - it just has to be a unique name within the townland. At least house names only need agreement within that house, road names need agreement across the neighbourhood.

If you cannot get agreement within a household on such a minor matter, what chance agreement across a whole townland as to road names! Anyway, they could choose numbers for their 'name' but who takes number 1?

However, if this is adopted, the name has to be visible from the road otherwise it is pointless.

marmurr1916

And somehow this is supposed to be easier to implement than eircodes?

Introducing road names and property numbers could take decades and they might never win public acceptance in rural townlands.

Eircodes are ideal for addresses in rural townlands where there are no road names and no property numbers - i.e. about 35% of Irish addresses.

Eircodes are a done deal.

The fight, if there ever really was one, is over.

Sam Russell

When I see a considerable number of houses (like even 10%) with plaques displayed outside them with their Eircode clearly displayed then I will agree with you.

There is an advert for Eircodes airing currently with a country type character in a rural setting trying to guide his delivery towards him with no success. How would Eircode help him, there is no way to know which house is the right one when you get there. [I presume satnavs will eventually incorporate them, but even then will it identify randomly placed houses].

Every house needs to be identifiable from the road, and Eircode does not do this. House numbers can as can house names in rural areas. At least asking someone where is 'The White House' or 'Burkes' or 'number 67' will get a response but where is A86 H9U7 will be met with a 'Wha....'.

marmurr1916

Sam Russell wrote: »

There is an advert for Eircodes airing currently with a country type character in a rural setting trying to guide his delivery towards him with no success. How would Eircode help him, there is no way to know which house is the right one when you get there. [I presume satnavs will eventually incorporate them, but even then will it identify randomly placed houses].

Yes it will. Satnavs can be as accurate as within 5 metres of a geographical location.

Give it up - you're not just flogging a dead horse, you're flogging a dead horse that's been cremated! :P

tadcan

Sam Russell wrote: »

There is an advert for Eircodes airing currently with a country type character in a rural setting trying to guide his delivery towards him with no success. How would Eircode help him, there is no way to know which house is the right one when you get there. [I presume satnavs will eventually incorporate them, but even then will it identify randomly placed houses].

Even now, with a 3g mobile connection you can check the eircode and get a map of the area around the house.

I used to live in
North Lodge
Parish Name
Local Village
County

after us, another family moved in and a friend of mine called it Smiths house. It didn't matter the house had a name since the 1800's.

Eugene Norman

My parents moved down the country and have an isolated house. I searched for its name ( no number), road, nearest town and county and the eircode was spot on. The map was exact. Reverse look ups would also work with the eircode -> map.

justbored

This post has been deleted.

Sam Russell

justbored wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I live in Dublin 4 but have many relatives and friends who live in the country.

One relative put a name on his house over thirty years ago and it can be found on Google maps using that name. His neighbours houses are not named.

Alun

tadcan wrote: »

Even now, with a 3g mobile connection you can check the eircode and get a map of the area around the house.

Yes, the mobile version of the eircode finder page has a "Use my location" button directly under the search box, so that anyone can easily find the eircode of a building they're near to.

MBSnr

Sam Russell wrote: »

I live in Dublin 4 but have many relatives and friends who live in the country.

One relative put a name on his house over thirty years ago and it can be found on Google maps using that name. His neighbours houses are not named.

Most people who live around us who name their houses tend to be English.... That's not a dig or implying anything BTW - just what I've noticed. I've seen people in England name their houses even though they have house numbers.

The Irish don't seem to go in for house names.