Controversial Plans for First Feis in Israel

tradhead

This is really bizarre.

There's understandably been uproar at plans to hold the first ever Irish Dancing Feis in Tel Aviv in August of this year. There's a petition here calling for people to uphold the boycott of Israel due to their horrific crimes against the people of Palestine.

Apparently both the Comisiun and the O' Se school of Irish dancing have been inundated with phone calls and complaints, and have said that a final decision has not been made yet regarding whether or not it will happen...although as a date has been set in August I would doubt that.

Just happened to come across this today, has anyone else heard anything about it?

In fairness, the Israeli Government has said if this Feis is cancelled it will force them to do a deal with the Palestinians.

So the boycott will have a real impact on the lives of people in the Gaza Strip.

pmasterson95

Ah now boards doesnt like Israel. In fact criticising Israel is part of the hipster bible. Thread will be a mess.

NIMAN

I couldn't give a **** either way.

TommyKnocker

tradhead wrote: »

This is really bizarre.

There's been uproar at plans to hold the first ever Irish Dancing Feis in Tel Aviv in August of this year. There's a petition here calling for people to uphold the boycott of Israel due to their horrific crimes against the people of Palestine.

Apparently both the Comisiun and the O' Se school of Irish dancing have been inundated with phone calls and complaints, and have said that a final decision has not been made yet regarding whether or not it will happen...although as a date has been set in August I would doubt that.

Just happened to come across this today, has anyone else heard anything about it?

I would ask why you find it bizarre?

This is exactly the kind of action that was used to help end apartheid in South Africa.

I would support the BDS movement and the call to boycott Israel until they start to behave like the "democracy" they claim to be and treat all people equally. I fail to see anything bizarre about that.

pmasterson95

pmasterson95 wrote: »

Ah now boards doesnt like Israel. In fact criticising Israel is part of the hipster bible. Thread will be a mess.

Well done on keeping it tidy from the start.

tradhead

TommyKnocker wrote: »

I would ask why you find it bizarre?

This is exactly the kind of action that was used to help end apartheid in South Africa.

I would support the BDS movement and the call to boycott Israel until they start to behave like the "democracy" they claim to be and treat all people equally. I fail to see anything bizarre about that.

You completely missed my point.

I find it bizarre that anybody could think it would be a good idea to hold an event like this in Israel. It's thoughtless and short-sighted, not to mention dangerous for any dancers and their families that would be misguided enough to travel there for a feis.

Clarified the OP, I can kinda see how you may have picked me up wrong.

c_man

I've heard of the cultural boycott before, still supportive of it. They shouldn't be in the Eurovision either.

osarusan

Does it have to be a politicised event?

Can it not just be a dancing and music event?

tradhead

tradhead wrote: »

I find it bizarre that anybody could think it would be a good idea to hold an event like this in Israel. It's thoughtless and short-sighted, not to mention dangerous for any dancers and their families that would be misguided enough to travel there for a feis.

What happens to Irish dancers in Tel Aviv that makes it dangerous for them and their families? Know a few who have been there and they thought it was a great spot.

tradhead

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What happens to Irish dancers in Tel Aviv that makes it dangerous for them and their families? Know a few who have been there and they thought it was a great spot.

I would imagine this will gain a lot of publicity, certainly nationally if not worldwide seeing as it's quite controversial, and things are far from settled in Israel. It's not a place that I would be happy to go to at present, certainly not with children.

brummytom

There were similar calls a couple of years ago when trad band Dervish were due to perform in Israel. I'm in favour of a cultural boycott, but having had to sit through a feis before, I'd be tempted to ignore the boycott this once, and make it mandatory for every member of the IDF to sit through every jig, reel and hornpipe.

keeponhurling

Nobody's saying that this Feis will make any difference to Palestine,.

However, if Israel are constantly being boycotted for all types of events, then this would put pressure on them to reconsider their actions.
As said above, similar to South Africa, if everyone plays their part etc. it will start to put pressure on.

Samaris

Deleted User wrote: »

In fairness, the Israeli Government has said if this Feis is cancelled it will force them to do a deal with the Palestinians.

So the boycott will have a real impact on the lives of people in the Gaza Strip.

Wait a sec, they -said- that? Isn't that really forcing the organisers to not do it for the greater good?

I'm sensing that the real plot is that the Israeli Government really, really does not want to be stuck in a room with an army of Irish dancers. "God, lads, we'll even go talk to the Palestinians, just keep Flatley out of the country!"

Just a little Samba

The BDS movement is actually starting to cause serious problems for Israel. The EU are pushing ahead with labelling laws for Israeli products sold in the EU and are planning on banning all products from the occupied territories. Massive companies such as Orange are divesting funds from Israeli companies and financial services, the academic boycott is starting to impact the ability of Israeli universities to attract acadmeics and as such is massively hurting their funding and the cultural boycott has lead to dozens of artists, musicians and so on to cancel shows in Israel in the last 2 years.

tradhead

tradhead wrote: »

It's not a place that I would be happy to go to at present, certainly not with children.

It's Israel, not North Korea!

I would have thought crime rates in Tel Aviv lower than Birmingham (is that where the dance school is based?), so they should be safer. But that's only a guess on my part,

TommyKnocker

osarusan wrote: »

Does it have to be a politicised event?

Can it not just be a dancing and music event?

By artists, bands, dance troops etc appearing in Israel it gives the impression that everything is normal in Israel and nothing could be further from the truth. And if you think it won't be used as propaganda by Israel, then you are naive.

Israel is in violation of dozens of UN resolutions, Geneva conventions and are about to be investigated for possible war crimes.

They have just voted in an extreme right wing government who encouraged voters to the polls by stating that "the Arabs were voting in their droves" and who got back into power on the mandate of no Palestinian state and no end to settlement building.

A number of the government ministers have previously called for genocide and ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people from Gaza.

The are ongoing Palestinian house demolitions, Bedouin villages being demolished to make way for more settlements.

The are two rules of law in place in Israel. Civilian law for Israelis and military law for Palestinians. There is "Administrative Detention" for Palestinians, where they can be held with no charge and no trial at the whim of the military. There are over 50 discriminatory laws on Israels books.

Ethiopian Jews are treated like 2nd/3rd class citizens. There are Jewish only roads, settlements, kindergarten and a plan to revisit segregated buses a few weeks ago was suspended at the last minute as Sepp Blatter (FIFA) and a UN delegation were visiting on the day it was to be introduced.

This is not a democracy in any shape or form, which is why I fully support the BDS movement and the financial. cultural and academic boycott is Israel.

Just a little Samba

Deleted User wrote: »

It's Israel, not North Korea!

I would have thought crime rates in Tel Aviv lower than Birmingham (is that where the dance school is based?), so they should be safer. But that's only a guess on my part,

Tel Aviv is actually as rough as a bears arse so it probably isn't safer than Birmingham crime wise.

It's not a dangerous city though, and it's not crawling with military personal like Jerusalem so it doesn't have the same "**** could happen" feeling.

It's total kipp of a city though.

Just a little Samba

Just a little Samba wrote: »

Tel Aviv is actually as rough as a bears arse so it probably isn't safer than Birmingham crime wise.

It's not a dangerous city though, and it's not crawling with military personal like Jerusalem so it doesn't have the same "**** could happen" feeling.

It's total kipp of a city though.

I thought it was party central! Judging from friends who lived there, they liked it. As you say, much more than Jerusalem.

I'm more surprised that there's a demand for Irish dancing in Israel ..

Just a little Samba

Deleted User wrote: »

I thought it was party central! Judging from friends who lived there, they liked it. As you say, much more than Jerusalem.

It's full of clubs and pubs, but like, the city itself is as dull as ditch water.

Haifa is more of a party town, and the beach is nice, and the food is a lot better.

TommyKnocker

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm more surprised that there's a demand for Irish dancing in Israel ..

I doubt that there is to be honest. But there have been quite a few artists who have cancelled shows there in the last while which makes the international news. So I think personally they are just desperate to get whoever they can to visit to keep up the charade that everything is normal and the the boycott is having no effect.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

tradhead wrote: »

You completely missed my point.

I find it bizarre that anybody could think it would be a good idea to hold an event like this in Israel. It's thoughtless and short-sighted, not to mention dangerous for any dancers and their families that would be misguided enough to travel there for a feis.

Clarified the OP, I can kinda see how you may have picked me up wrong.

.... whereas holding it in some place in the US would make perfect sense?

TommyKnocker

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

.... whereas holding it in some place in the US would make perfect sense?

No problem in the US as long as they don't have to call the police for help with anything

pmasterson95

TommyKnocker wrote: »

No problem in the US as long as they don't have to call the police for help with anything

Unless theres an unstable idiot with a gun ready for a mass shooting.

osarusan

TommyKnocker wrote: »

By artists, bands, dance troops etc appearing in Israel it gives the impression that everything is normal in Israel and nothing could be further from the truth.

But why is that of interest to a dance group going over? Why should that impression be important to them?

As an aside, if the Israeli government is funding these kinds of invitations to create the impression that everything is normal, that's one thing, but if it is a genuine invitation from those interested in Irish dance and music, why is it a problem to accept an invitation?

TommyKnocker wrote: »

And if you think it won't be used as propaganda by Israel, then you are naive.

That may be true.

But suggesting that they not go to Israel because not going will help a boycott is overtly political itself, isn't it?

Just a little Samba

pmasterson95 wrote: »

Unless theres an unstable idiot with a gun ready for a mass shooting.

yeah, he mentioned the cops already...

MathDebater

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm more surprised that there's a demand for Irish dancing in Israel ..

Sure there's a GAA club in Gaza with Chomsky as it's co-president.

http://www.irishcentral.com/opinion/others/noam-chomsky-joins-gaa-to-set-up-team-in-gaza-81528462-238013161.html

Richard Hillman

Another case of people trying to ram their political beliefs down uncaring peoples throats.

Just a little Samba

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Another case of people trying to ram their political beliefs down uncaring peoples throats.

Yeah, just like the time those rotters were mean to those nice white boys in South Africa!

RobertKK

They should have the feis in Israel.
Why take sides as if the other side is all innocence and pure...

Irish Praetorian

Oh this is rich, Feis being held in Belarus, Russia, China....nah that's fine...Israel....GET THE PLACARDS!!! :mad:

Son Of A Vidic

pmasterson95 wrote: »

Ah now boards doesnt like Israel. In fact criticising Israel is part of the hipster bible...

Posted @ 12:51PM? Embassy on an early lunch?:pac:

Herb Powell

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

Oh this is rich, Feis being held in Belarus, Russia, China....nah that's fine...Israel....GET THE PLACARDS!!! :mad:

A fine argument you have there. Please tell me more about how people have to seen being against every possible human rights violation under the sun before their grievances about the much more highly publicised, "western"-funded, systematic bullshhit occuring in Israel can be considered valid.

Irish Praetorian

Herb Powell wrote: »

A fine argument you have there. Please tell me more about how people have to seen being against every possible human rights violation under the sun before their grievances about the much more highly publicised, "western"-funded, systematic bullshhit occuring in Israel can be considered valid.

By all means - its called trying to avoid hypocrisy. You see, when you hold one set of people to one standard, and another to a different standard, it begs a very simple question - what are those standards in the first place and why should one group obey them if another group is permitted a free pass?

Carlos Orange

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

By all means - its called trying to avoid hypocrisy. You see, when you hold one set of people to one standard, and another to a different standard, it begs a very simple question - what are those standards in the first place and why should one group obey them if another group is permitted a free pass?

Does that mean you think the EU should have the same sort of sanctions against Israel that is does Russia?

darkpagandeath

TommyKnocker wrote: »

I would ask why you find it bizarre?

This is exactly the kind of action that was used to help end apartheid in South Africa.

I would support the BDS movement and the call to boycott Israel until they start to behave like the "democracy" they claim to be and treat all people equally. I fail to see anything bizarre about that.

Irish dancing helped stop apartheid....... Oh dear god... :pac::pac::pac:

Irish Praetorian

psinno wrote: »

Does that mean you think the EU should have the same sort of sanctions against Israel that is does Russia?

By all means, but then again, those sanctions would also need to apply to quite a few other states in the world if we were to avoid being hypocrites. At present, Russian actions however, appear to occupy a rather unique sphere.

wes

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

At present, Russian actions however, appear to occupy a rather unique sphere.

Expanding outside ones borders, is hardly unique, and Israel btw has been at it for the last few decades, so Russia is not at all unique.

If we are to follow your logic, the EU must drop sanctions against Russia, for expanding outside there border, and Iran over there nuclear program, as there not sanctioning every country the world over for similar transgressions. Sure we should drop sanctions against all Palestinians terrorist groups, as we aren't sanctioning Israel while we are it, can't be seen to be hypocrites.

Not a NSA agent

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Posted @ 12:51PM? Embassy on an early lunch?:pac:

Thats far to subtle for the Israeli embassy. They would say something about how everyone on boards hates Jews and then delete the post so they could pretend it never happened.

pmasterson95

Not a NSA agent wrote: »

Thats far to subtle for the Israeli embassy. They would say something about how everyone on boards hates Jews and then delete the post so they could pretend it never happened.

And you think boards doesn't? You must be new here

Buona Fortuna

I don't dance.

Don't ask me.

Herb Powell

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

By all means, but then again, those sanctions would also need to apply to quite a few other states in the world if we were to avoid being hypocrites. At present, Russian actions however, appear to occupy a rather unique sphere.

Why does it always come down to this, though? It's a bullshhit argument, to derail any discussion.

It is no defence, in a court of law, to ask why others may or may not be punished for things they may or may not have done.

If all you can do is point and say "Look over there!" it does nothing for your point.

Irish Praetorian

wes wrote: »

Expanding outside ones borders, is hardly unique, and Israel btw has been at it for the last few decades, so Russia is not at all unique.

If we are to follow your logic, the EU must drop sanctions against Russia, for expanding outside there border, and Iran over there nuclear program, as there not sanctioning every country the world over for similar transgressions. Sure we should drop sanctions against all Palestinians terrorist groups, as we aren't sanctioning Israel while we are it, can't be seen to be hypocrites.

Well I'm not about to disagree with the dropping sanctions over Iran bit, particularly in light of recent events such as the election of Rouhani and rather positive moves on the part of the Iranians.

In regards regarding organizations as terrorist groups, well it varies on the circumstances doesn't it - I can't really begrudge any group that tries to resist an occupation, but then again, I don't think you resist occupation by blowing up a Jewish centre in another continent.

Russia on the other hand is a pretty unique case, expanding in other countries, annexing their territories and devolving into a petty dictatorship. In the same time-scale, the UN has had enormous difficulty so much as recognising that Palestine might actually be a state let alone a state with set borders.

Irish Praetorian

Herb Powell wrote: »

Why does it always come down to this, though? It's a bullshhit argument, to derail any discussion.

It is no defence, in a court of law, to ask why others may or may not be punished for things they may or may not have done.

If all you can do is point and say "Look over there!" it does nothing for your point.

No it's not a bull**** argument its a perfectly reasonable point - if you want to enforce your version of justice against only some people, then people have a right to ask, why am I being punished while he is not? If a member of the gardai arrested you for having a tail light out while ten cars driving past you didn't have any license plates on them, the very least you might do is go 'wtf'?

wes

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

Russia on the other hand is a pretty unique case, expanding in other countries, annexing their territories and devolving into a petty dictatorship. In the same time-scale, the UN has had enormous difficulty so much as recognising that Palestine might actually be a state let alone a state with set borders.

UN resolution 242 is rather clear on it actually, the occupied territories do not belong to Israel, and the ICJ's advisory opinion on the Israeli wall built on Palestinian land also back this up. Israel is no different than Russia, there both expanding outside there borders, and both using bull**** excuses to justify it.

So again by you logic, we should drop sanctions on Russia.

Herb Powell

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

No it's not a bull**** argument its a perfectly reasonable point - if you want to enforce your version of justice against only some people, then people have a right to ask, why am I being punished while he is not? If a member of the gardai arrested you for having a tail light out while ten cars driving past you didn't have any license plates on them, the very least you might do is go 'wtf'?

In that situation, you'd be unlucky. And I think that's the point. The Gardaí cannot catch everyone for every single thing, especially if they're dealing with someone at the time. It does not mean that having no tail light is suddenly ok.

steddyeddy

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What happens to Irish dancers in Tel Aviv that makes it dangerous for them and their families? Know a few who have been there and they thought it was a great spot.

Irish aren't always very warmly received in Israel.

Irish Praetorian

wes wrote: »

UN resolution 242 is rather clear on it actually, the occupied territories do not belong to Israel, and the ICJ's advisory opinion on the Israeli wall built on Palestinian land also back this up. Israel is no different than Russia, there both expanding outside there borders, and both using bull**** excuses to justify it.

So again by you logic, we should drop sanctions on Russia.

Here's another Security Council Resolution calling on Turkey to stop occupying Northern Cyprus - lets see how far that got.

Having said that, I don't want to mislead you and give the impression that I give much of a damn about what the UN says or think that its some kind of benevolent association with only impartiality and justice in mind - I suspect you already know that the reality is far different.

Carlos Orange

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

Russia on the other hand is a pretty unique case, expanding in other countries, annexing their territories and devolving into a petty dictatorship.

Not sure unique means what you think it does.

Irish Praetorian

Herb Powell wrote: »

In that situation, you'd be unlucky. And I think that's the point. The Gardaí cannot catch everyone for every single thing, especially if they're dealing with someone at the time. It does not mean that having no tail light is suddenly ok.

I never said it was OK, I said you would be entitled to ask wtf, and if such a case came to court and those 10 drivers were on your jury, you might doubly ask wtf.

Justice, done on the principle of getting only the popular targets that we are all happy to see hang (whatever the crime) is no justice at all.