Proposed changes to Gaming (General) rules - PC vs Console

So, I'm sure this won't go down too well, but is anyone else getting fed up with the way that almost every video game discussion within this forum becomes either a debate between PC and consoles, which gets excessively boring and is the same debate constantly, or how one runs on a specific game.

I'm going to use Batman - Arkham Knight as an example. In this thread, people are talking about how it runs on PC and barely discussing the game itself. This isn't general gaming, this is very PC specific and, thus, should be confined to the PC Gaming forum. Same with how it runs on Xbox and Playstation, however general discussions about the game itself can be discussed here.

What does anyone else think? Or am I alone in this?

Captain Chaos

I agree. The Witcher 3 thread went the same way. Even though there was a Witcher 3 thread in the PC gaming section the General Witcher 3 thread regularly got side tracked with PC specs and moding of the game to run a certain way and what patches did what. This leaving console players talking generally about the game lost.

Shiminay

The community decided it wanted cross platform games discussed in here. PC people have technical issues with almost every game, it's as much a part of the discussion as anything else and so if that's a problem then we simply shouldn't have cross-platform discussion.

Captain Chaos

Shiminay wrote: »

The community decided it wanted cross platform games discussed in here. PC people have technical issues with almost every game, it's as much a part of the discussion as anything else and so if that's a problem then we simply shouldn't have cross-platform discussion.

But the way it is now with game topic threads in the PC section solves this issue. But PC only issues still end up in the general section.

When a certain game topic gets put in the PS4 of Xbox forum it's quickly dropped in here yet the PC game topic threads stay in the PC section, why is this???

Double standards imo.

Kirby

Deleted User wrote: »

every video game discussion within this forum becomes either a debate between PC and consoles

No it doesnt. I think some people are confused about this. Discussing how a game performs on each platform, how they differ, and the issues/problems is not debating which is better.

The batman thread is full of talk of the last minute minimum spec switcheroo. Personally, I have no problem with this but thats not really relevant, is it? It happened today....the game was released today.....people are going to discuss it.

Captain Chaos wrote: »

I agree. The Witcher 3 thread went the same way. Even though there was a Witcher 3 thread in the PC gaming section the General Witcher 3 thread regularly got side tracked with PC specs and moding of the game to run a certain way and what patches did what. This leaving console players talking generally about the game lost.

What is stopping console players from creating a witcher 3 thread in the xbox or ps4 forum? If you want a console only thread, nothing is stopping you from opening one there.

Frankly I'm mostly a console player but I find my self playing a major devils advocate on this because it needs to be said.

Digital Solitude

Not sure if you're aware but how it runs on PC is a hot topic of discussion, similar to if Microsoft paid a hat of money to ensure the game ran like crap on PS4. Then how it ran on the different consoles would be a big discussion. Surely you don't find all threads to be like this?

Penn

I posted this elsewhere within the last hour or so, but I'll post it here too:

Bad Horse wrote:

This is my problem with the whole PC V Console debate though. One side is simply not better than the other. Both sides have their benefits. Both sides have their exclusives. Both sides largely cater to different needs.

The benefits, exclusives, and needs that I want, are console. The benefits, exclusives and needs that you want, may be PC.

I just hate having my choice being continuously derided or patronised, as if my choice is somehow wrong or ill-informed.

As bad as Sony vs Microsoft debates are, they're nothing compared to how I feel about console vs PC debates/comments.

It's brought up in every multi-platform game thread that games are generally cheaper on PC, can be optimised to a greater extent, framerates & resolution is better, keyboard & mouse is better, it's relatively cheap to build your own PC etc etc.

It's nonsense. Regardless of how true these things are, nobody cares. This forum should be about discussion of the games themselves, not whether your platform of choice is wrong or right considering it all comes down to personal preference anyway. I have a PC capable of playing high-resolution games. I still play on console though, because it suits my needs and wants better.

And anyone using the phrase "Glorious PC Master Race" or "Dirty Console Peasant" should be carded. It's annoying at best and trolling at worst.

Penn

Shiminay wrote: »

The community decided it wanted cross platform games discussed in here. PC people have technical issues with almost every game, it's as much a part of the discussion as anything else and so if that's a problem then we simply shouldn't have cross-platform discussion.

For what it's worth, I have no issue with discussion about technical issues between platforms, it's when it gets into actual Console Vs PC territory that I think should be discouraged.

Captain Chaos

Kirby wrote: »

What is stopping console players from creating a witcher 3 thread in the xbox or ps4 forum? If you want a console only thread, nothing is stopping you from opening one there.

Frankly I'm mostly a console player but I find my self playing a major devils advocate on this because it needs to be said.

Because new rules as I said above mean all game threads created in the console forums get put in General Gaming now. Yet PC Gaming forum get to keep those ones in PC Gaming for PC only topics that are now spilling over in General Gaming topics, nothing wrong with it but they do have their own place.

It's a double standard.

Maximus Alexander

Bad Horse wrote: »

And anyone using the phrase "Glorious PC Master Race" or "Dirty Console Peasant" should be carded. It's annoying at best and trolling at worst.

As someone who does the majority of his gaming on PC (though I have consoles also), I too find these phrases mega-cringe. It exemplifies a common kind of attitude among some segments of the gaming community that leads me to give gaming forums a wide berth.

Shiminay

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Because new rules as I said above mean all game threads created in the console forums get put in General Gaming now. Yet PC Gaming forum get to keep those ones in PC Gaming for PC only topics that are now spilling over in General Gaming topics, nothing wrong with it but they do have their own place.

It's a double standard.

And yet we have plenty of threads in the last few weeks about Nintendo and Microsoft and PlayStation specific and exclusive releases in this General Gaming forum - so why are they ok - they're the opposite side of the same coin.

As I said, the community said it wanted cross platform discussion in this forum. If you don't want that then say so - it's gotta be one or the other.

Captain Chaos

Shiminay wrote: »

And yet we have plenty of threads in the last few weeks about Nintendo and Microsoft and PlayStation specific and exclusive releases in this General Gaming forum - so why are they ok - they're the opposite side of the same coin.

As I said, the community said it wanted cross platform discussion in this forum. If you don't want that then say so - it's gotta be one or the other.

I agree, I don't believe console exclusive games should be in general gaming as they are not general.

I don't like the new system of console games being dumped in here that were created in a console platform forum but that's the way it's gone and the PC ones are left as they appear.

What would happen is there would be multiple threads about one game all over the place and mod would be fed up redirecting people and thread/fourm tidying etc.

The other issue was people were complaining that console issue topics relating to hardware were getting lost in all the game title threads so that's why the decision was taken to shift them all here. To me that's just lazy/lack of use of the search function but that's just me.

Generic Dreadhead

Deleted User wrote: »

In this thread, people are talking about how it runs on PC and barely discussing the game itself. This isn't general gaming, this is very PC specific and, thus, should be confined to the PC Gaming forum. Same with how it runs on Xbox and Playstation, however general discussions about the game itself can be discussed here.What does anyone else think? Or am I alone in this?

So they you end up with 2 threads yeah?
I could get on board with that IF they were labelled correctly and had clear Mod Notes in the 1st Posts.

E.G.

Gaming (General) - Batman Arkham Knight (General Discussion)
PC Gaming - Batman Arkham Knight PC (Specs, Mods, Performance, no general chat)

Thing is it would be more work for the mods overall initially, but once you create a culture I guess it would be better for the mods and users in the long haul.

Bad Horse wrote: »

And anyone using the phrase "Glorious PC Master Race" or "Dirty Console Peasant" should be carded. It's annoying at best and trolling at worst.

I would second this to be fair, but it would be really hard to monitor

Captain Chaos wrote: »

The General Witcher 3 thread regularly got side tracked with PC specs and moding of the game to run a certain way and what patches did what.

Ya see, I'm not sure if this is considered back seat modding, but once someone pipes up with something that clearly belongs in a more specific forum they should simply be pointed in the direction by users with a simple.

"Posts about PC specs and patches etc belong in the relevant forums Here: ---> Hyperlink"

Without getting into a back and forth with the original poster and not be afraid of being infracted for back-seat modding.

Penn

Captain Chaos wrote: »

I agree, I don't believe console exclusive games should be in general gaming as they are not general.

I don't like the new system of console games being dumped in here but that's the way it's gone.

What would happen is there would be multiple threads about one game all over the place and mod would be fed up redirecting people and thread/fourm tidying etc.

The other issue was people were complaining that console issue topics relating to hardware were getting lost in all the game title threads so that's why the decision was taken to shift them all here. To me that's just lazy/lack of use of the search function but that's just me.

Personally, I think 'Gaming (General)' should be discussion about the games themselves, whether exclusive or multi-platform. That would include technical discussion about the game regardless of platform, as there'll usually be cross-platform issues, or gamers who own more than one platform and knowing about issues on one could help them buy the game on another. The Console forums should be for matters specific to that console (My PS4 is making a weird noise, Where can I buy this controller for XB1 etc).

It's the "My platform of choice is better than yours" that should be abolished, in my opinion.

Captain Chaos

Cormac... wrote: »

So they you end up with 2 threads yeah?
I could get on board with that IF they were labelled correctly and had clear Mod Notes in the 1st Posts.

E.G.

Gaming (General) - Batman Arkham Knight (General Discussion)
PC Gaming - Batman Arkham Knight PC (Specs, Mods, Performance, no general chat)

Thing is it would be more work for the mods overall initially, but once you create a culture I guess it would be better for the mods and users in the long haul.

That's the way it is now for some games.

There is a Witch 3 PC Gaming thread and a Witcher 3 thread in general gaming but PC players end up using both.

Mod did want a game thread in say the PS or Xbox forum and the same game listed in the general forum so they started merging them all in general gaming.

The game threads started in the PC forum stay there because the mods know and can see they have PC only issues.

Robert ninja

Deleted User wrote: »

So, I'm sure this won't go down too well, but is anyone else getting fed up with the way that almost every video game discussion within this forum becomes either a debate between PC and consoles, which gets excessively boring and is the same debate constantly, or how one runs on a specific game.

I'm going to use Batman - Arkham Knight as an example. In this thread, people are talking about how it runs on PC and barely discussing the game itself. This isn't general gaming, this is very PC specific and, thus, should be confined to the PC Gaming forum. Same with how it runs on Xbox and Playstation, however general discussions about the game itself can be discussed here.

What does anyone else think? Or am I alone in this?

A game's performance IS part of the game. "Barely discussing the game". What is discussing the game then? The music? that's not part of the game according to some people. Graphics? Nah sure only gameplay matters. So... QTEs? Some people don't consider that real gameplay, either. Characters? Probably have to spoiler everything you say. What if the thread went on a 2-page disccusiion talking about how it's so different because of the composer of the music, the way the composer got payed impacted the quality of his/her work... or maybe a few pages about nothing but graphics. You might lose interest after a while... but so what. You're not forced to read any of it and that's what at least 2 people have found they want to discuss about the title.

You're in a public forum you're going to be exposed to all kinds of opinions and experiences... the game just came out, anyone whose played it can't have gotten far, some people are choosing not to play in order to wait for patches, or just discussing the way it was published, developed, the developer's history etc. These are all relevant, you're just not interested but feel your interests need to moderate it? You essentially want a containment board or a closed circlejerk. You can happily go a PS4/XBO/Whatever platform specific board and cheer about how great the game is all day. Have fun.


And again, the game is just out. Things people talk about is minimum requirements on PC being changed 12 hours within release, middleware issues, developer integrity, launch content, packaging and pricing, delivery dates, download times/issues. These is a hot topics right now, but probably won't be in a few days or weeks, months. That's kind of what happens when a game is released, it goes through stages of discussion. In a few days people will be talking in depth about combat, story progression, the new A.I cooperative mechanic etc... or who knows maybe they'll just say "This game is great/terrible <smiley face>" because that's totally a riveting read.

Myrddin

Believe it or not all, we've been actively discussing this issue behind the scenes lately. PC Gaming has grown beyond what was originally envisaged, and as a result, it's inadvertently created this confusing and conflicted dynamic in the category. Prior to having PC Gaming, all discussion related to games went in this forum & for the most part, that's perfectly fine and serviceable. However, it became obvious that there was a sizeable audience who wanted to discuss pc-specific topics, specs, hardware, peripherals, steam, etc etc. It was decided to go ahead & create a forum for these avenues of discussion, & to cut a long story short, that forum is today what we know as the PC Gaming forum.

It's an otherwise, healthy, vibrant forum that has exploited several avenues of discussion which we previously had no place for. However, it has as I said above, kind of grown beyond its own confines; we're now in a position where we're seeing duplicate threads in PC Gaming & Gaming (General), and from what I'm reading, technical discussion in this Games forum too. To remedy that, how about something like this:

We modify the current model, though only slightly. We allow games-threads in this forum to continue as they are & have done for the last couple of years. However, we also formally allow the creation of games-threads in PC Gaming too - the reason being, it's the perfect and obvious home to house discussion on the technical elements of running said games. Resolution, fps, gfx settings, mods, et al. Any & all pc-tech chat then that comes up in this forum, can be moved to where it should be in PC Gaming. PC gamers are free to engage and use this forum as they always have done, to discuss the game itself - but anything outside of those bounds, should be moved (ie tech chat).

Naturally, some general chat about the game itself is bound to come up in PC Gaming & it's no harm really, we can leave it be...the forum has been doing very well, & isn't in any way impacting on this forum by doing so, so we'd be keeping as many happy as possible.

The reason we only do this for PC, is that by & large this forum caters brilliantly to the subject of games, and on consoles, there's rarely a console specific issue to discuss here. If there is, it should be moved to a console forum anyway. To sum up, we let PC Gaming carry on as is, & boot any pc tech-chat over to PC Gaming (where it belongs)...then PC Gamers can decide if this forum or PC Gaming better suits their query...

Any thoughts on that?

tok9

Sounds good to me.

Dair76

Myrddin wrote: »

Believe it or not all, we've been actively discussing this issue behind the scenes lately. PC Gaming has grown beyond what was originally envisaged, and as a result, it's inadvertently created this confusing and conflicted dynamic in the category. Prior to having PC Gaming, all discussion related to games went in this forum & for the most part, that's perfectly fine and serviceable. However, it became obvious that there was a sizeable audience who wanted to discuss pc-specific topics, specs, hardware, peripherals, steam, etc etc. It was decided to go ahead & create a forum for these avenues of discussion, & to cut a long story short, that forum is today what we know as the PC Gaming forum.

It's an otherwise, healthy, vibrant forum that has exploited several avenues of discussion which we previously had no place for. However, it has as I said above, kind of grown beyond its own confines; we're now in a position where we're seeing duplicate threads in PC Gaming & Gaming (General), and from what I'm reading, technical discussion in this Games forum too. To remedy that, how about something like this:

We modify the current model, though only slightly. We allow games-threads in this forum to continue as they are & have done for the last couple of years. However, we also formally allow the creation of games-threads in PC Gaming too - the reason being, it's the perfect and obvious home to house discussion on the technical elements of running said games. Resolution, fps, gfx settings, mods, et al. Any & all pc-tech chat then that comes up in this forum, can be moved to where it should be in PC Gaming. PC gamers are free to engage and use this forum as they always have done, to discuss the game itself - but anything outside of those bounds, should be moved (ie tech chat).

Naturally, some general chat about the game itself is bound to come up in PC Gaming & it's no harm really, we can leave it be...the forum has been doing very well, & isn't in any way impacting on this forum by doing so, so we'd be keeping as many happy as possible.

The reason we only do this for PC, is that by & large this forum caters brilliantly to the subject of games, and on consoles, there's rarely a console specific issue to discuss here. If there is, it should be moved to a console forum anyway. To sum up, we let PC Gaming carry on as is, & boot any pc tech-chat over to PC Gaming (where it belongs)...then PC Gamers can decide if this forum or PC Gaming better suits their query...

Any thoughts on that?

Of course, that's what some of us asked for when the PC Gaming forum was mooted initially. :P Seriously though, sounds like a good compromise.

Grumpypants

It makes sense alright to have PC specific threads for the more technical aspects of getting the game running that wouldn't be as common for console user, as console releases are generally pretty solid and there isn't the need (or ability) to tweak the game settings.

Batman is having a pretty poor PC release at the moment so talk of performance on PC is going to creep into the general thread and get in the way of users wanting to talk just about "the game". But at the same time launch and the issue it brings are all part of the overall game experience. Once the patch is rolled out that talk will die down and return to the game itself.

The best solution is likely going to be to keep all the chat in the main game forum and if we see that a single specific technical issue on a specific platform is taking over the main chat then there is an option to split that off in to a new thread in the platform specific category, whether that is in the console or PC sections.

Example being make a Batman PC technical issues thread in the PC forum and let people work on it in there.

Varik

Might not be a bad idea to segregate PC technical problems/options, if someone is looking for that it'd be better not having to look through a huge thread for it.

Generally issue should stay but anything in depth or solutions would be better off in their own thread.

gizmo

Myrddin wrote: »

Stuff that makes sense...

Totally agree with the above.

To echo what was said earlier, there's certainly plenty of merit to discussing the benefits of one version over the other in the case of multi-platform releases. From the perspective of someone who games across multiple platforms, round ups from the likes of Digital Foundry can provide really useful info to those choosing what platform to pick a game up on. Similarly, comments from users of each here can be quite useful.

There is, of course, a line between the above and the usual platform war nonsense so it'd be nice to see that more...strongly discouraged?

BenHK

I don't understand why people are so opposed to discussing the merits, benefits and drawbacks of PC's and consoles? Surely, individuals on here are at least capable of having a mature, intelligent and reasonable debate?

Myrddin

Dair76 wrote: »

Of course, that's what some of us asked for when the PC Gaming forum was mooted initially. :P Seriously though, sounds like a good compromise.

Indeed, but you'll appreciate that we were cautious of how such a forum might impact on the otherwise successful Games forum (this forum). We started PC Gaming quite small, some of you might remember it was called the Steam & Valve forum originally. We then let it grow a little, into a restricted PC Gaming forum, & today we're discussing letting it grow a little again. At least this way, we can monitor the changes & continually fine tune & hone the forum to what users of it want, without worrying about how it might affect other forums...and because these changes have been incremental, we're quite confident there's zero affect on any other forum

Dair76

Myrddin wrote: »

Indeed, but you'll appreciate that we were cautious of how such a forum might impact on the otherwise successful Games forum (this forum). We started PC Gaming quite small, some of you might remember it was called the Steam & Valve forum originally. We then let it grow a little, into a restricted PC Gaming forum, & today we're discussing letting it grow a little again. At least this way, we can monitor the changes & continually fine tune & hone the forum to what users of it want, without worrying about how it might affect other forums...and because these changes have been incremental, we're quite confident there's zero affect on any other forum

Yep, was just pulling your leg. I appreciate the work you guys are doing to get the balance right.

Grumpypants

BenHK wrote: »

I don't understand why people are so opposed to discussing the merits, benefits and drawbacks of PC's and consoles? Surely, individuals on here are at least capable of having a mature, intelligent and reasonable debate?

It's not that we can't chat about it, it's because it has been done a thousand times over and over and over again. And no one leaves the debate saying "By god that fellow made some good points I must rethink my perceived misconceptions".

Myrddin

gizmo wrote: »

There is, of course, a line between the above and the usual platform war nonsense so it'd be nice to see that more...strongly discouraged?

If that is (or has?) become an issue, we can address it.

BenHK

BenHK wrote: »

I don't understand why people are so opposed to discussing the merits, benefits and drawbacks of PC's and consoles? Surely, individuals on here are at least capable of having a mature, intelligent and reasonable debate?

It's never that simple and everyone knows it. It sinks into "PC master race" and "console peasants" snobbery, or its console gamers at the neck of PC gamers. That's not discussing benefits, etc. , that's just flogging the same dead argument constantly.

That sort of talk is what causes the issue mostly.

Robert ninja

BenHK wrote: »

I don't understand why people are so opposed to discussing the merits, benefits and drawbacks of PC's and consoles? Surely, individuals on here are at least capable of having a mature, intelligent and reasonable debate?

BenHK

Deleted User wrote: »

It's never that simple and everyone knows it. It sinks into "PC master race" and "console peasants" snobbery, or its console gamers at the neck of PC gamers. That's not discussing benefits, etc. , that's just flogging the same dead argument constantly.

That sort of talk is what causes the issue mostly.

I genuinely don't know, nor have I ever met anyone in real life that owns a PS4/XBO that has not conceded that PC is a better platform. And in turn, I haven't met a PC player that hasn't said PS4 get some interesting exclusives. This stuff is just as obvious as the sky is blue???

Penn

BenHK wrote: »

I don't understand why people are so opposed to discussing the merits, benefits and drawbacks of PC's and consoles? Surely, individuals on here are at least capable of having a mature, intelligent and reasonable debate?

It's not the debate that's the problem. It's that it's brought up repeatedly, usually apropos of nothing, and is a discussion most of us have had several times over. I know a gaming PC is better than my PS4. I know that. I knew it when I bought my PS4. Because even though the PC is better, the PS4 is better for me. I value the benefits the PS4 offer over the greater number of benefits that a PC offers.

A mature, intelligent and reasonable debate is fine. It's when it's shoehorned into discussions about something else, or console gamers having to justify why they choose console, that's what I oppose.