How to approach these things with housemate?

MissMotivated

Hi
Basically I am living with a girl since end of March, her parents own the house but it will be left to her and her sister eventually so it is essentially owner occupied. About a month after I moved in she lost her job, so last month asked me to not label the bank transfers rent etc.. now as this may affect her dole and she's not declaring that she has a lodger.
I am saving for a mortgage and when I apply for one I need to be able to show traceability in my account for the bills I paid over x amount of time so I am not comfortable not labeling these transfers.
Also so far we paid one bill since I moved in, she told me the figure I owed rather than leaving out the bill, she has told me since I moved in also that the gas bill has now been standardized to 50 euro a month so I need to pay 25 a month to her for that, but there have been no bills so I don't know do we actually owe more or less than we pay.
Also since she lost her job she does nothing, washes up occasionally but the floors are filthy so unless I do it it's not done, if she drops food on the floor it will stay there. And she uses my stuff regularly, sometimes she replaces it but sometimes she doesn't, I've bought toilet roll every week since I moved in she has said a couple of times that she will get it next time but she never does. A couple of times she has asked me for a lend of money also, she did give it back but I barely know this girl I don't want to get into lending her money but again I really don't want there to be tension between us.

Apart from all these things we do get on I really like the house, the rent is cheap which allows me to save for my own place, and I feel at home there, but these things are starting to stress me out now to the point where I am worrying about them.

So my question is is there a way of approaching them with her without causing offence and therefore tension in the house? Or is it a case if I don't like it I should just move out?
Any advice greatly appreciated!!!!

Milly33

Sorry to say but it sounds like she is being very lazy... Is the gas bill every month?

Suppose you have two choices

1. Sit down and talk to her about all this stuff. It is not very nice of her to be asking you to fit with her lifestyle because it suits her better. This would be in saying that you are saving for a house. I know how hard and annoying it is to get a credit rating so what you are saying makes sense that you want proof that you pay this and that.

Sounds like she is just being lasy with the house, did she tidy up before.. I know it depends on people whether they like to tidy or not but if ye are sharing ye should be sharing equally and with her using your stuff id be so up in that, and don't be lending her money your not her boyfriend or anything so she shouldn't even be asking you..

Id say cut your losses and leave

I doubt whether the transfers are specifically labelled would make any difference to your situation or hers. If either of you get asked to account for the transfers by the bank or the tax or welfare authorities, it would be quite obvious that they were for rent, whatever they are labelled as.

MissMotivated

@Milly33
Thanks for your reply, one of my friends said pretty much exactly what you did
The gas bill is now 50 euro every month but we don't get an actual bill apparently and we could owe more or less, we won't know until we check. I don't have access to the accounts though so I am relying on her to let me know if we owe more so we are not going into the winter with an outstanding bill.
Before she lost her job she worked long hours so was gone before I got up in the morning and sometimes not home until after me in the evenings so the place was clean as she wasn't there all day to dirty it, then at the weekends she would do some cleaning and said to me a few times to leave it that she would do it, that no longer happens. The house is lovely but small and the dirt is very obvious especially in the kitchen, I can't just ignore it and leave it there to see will she do it as much as I wish I could!!
Also I can't afford to shop for 2 people or lend her money every time she's stuck, I would never dream of even taking a teabag off her!!!

The other side of it is that she does suffer with anxiety and depression and I know not having a job is getting her down also. Now as bad as I feel for her, I didn't move in there to be her cleaner because she doesn't feel up to doing anything, I know that might sound really selfish but it's just I'm not from here so wherever I live needs to feel like a home away from home until I can buy my own place. Up to the last couple of weeks this place did but now she doesn't seem to really that she's sharing with someone.
I do feel sorry for her though she has a lot of issues and when she's in good form we get on really well and will sit and watch TV together and chat or have a few glasses of wine.
I think I am going to see how the next few weeks go, she might get a job and things might be better then, if not then I will need to move out, I'm worried sick about talking to her about these things in case she tells me to F off and then there's total tension in the house!!!!
Thank you for replying !!!

@DrDonkey
You're probably right but she has mentioned a couple of times she should really be getting the rent and bills money off me in cash and even mentioned me marking the bank transfers as tickets or flights or something, I have no intentions of doing that and that wasn't the agreement when I moved in. I'll just mark with my name for the next few months and see what happens after that. I don't want to affect her dole but she has her own house and will still have in a year or 2 when I'm still saving for a mortgage so I have to think of what the bank will need from me and make sure I have that in place when the time comes.

Milly33

Don't be afraid to talk to her.

Whether she has depression/anxiety (me thinks the two really go hand in hand) say it too her , it isn't your fault or your life as such to be waiting on her...

It isn't harsh to say look you cant fix everyones problems for them and if it starts interfering in your life then you might actually end up feeling badly towards her because it is making your life worse... Just remind her that you still want to be friends but she has to see that it isn't the best way to deal with the rent bills etc

best of luck with it

groovyg

I don't know what bank you are with OP, when I'm transferring rent to my landlord there is a line for whats to come up on my statement and a line for whats to come up on the lanlords statement.
So for your own statement you could still put in rent and leave the label for her statement blank.
If you are planning on applying for a mortgage you need a record of paying rent, bills and showing them you can budget. A friend of mine was living with another friend of his for years and was paying him 400 a month but there was no record to show it was rent as he generally paid in cash. When he went to apply for a mortgage they wouldn't give him one. He ended up renting elsewhere for 18 months to show he could rent, pay bills, save and live within in his monthly salary.

50 euro per month is crazy for gas during the summer. We haven't tuned on the gas for the last two months or more. Our bills from April to September will hardly add up to 50 euro combined and it will be mostly standing charge.

loyatemu

Darren Swift Levee wrote: »

50 euro per month is crazy for gas during the summer. We haven't tuned on the gas for the last two months or more. Our bills from April to September will hardly add up to 50 euro combined and it will be mostly standing charge.

sounds like she's on some form of level-payment plan, so the total bill for the year is expected to be 600, equates to 50 per month every month.

MissMotivated

@Milly33
thanks, I agree with you but then feel bad for her and think I should make allowances, but if these things keep bothering me and they don't change I will just need to cut my losses.

@groovyg
I'm with Ulster Bank, I thought I could do that also but there's only one field when transferring the money and when I contacted them to ask is there any way of it just displaying on my own account they said no, I have her setup as a payee on my account though so I wonder if I removed her and just did it from scratch every month entering all the details would there be 2 fields, I'll have to try that actually.
That's the thing, I spoke to a few banks last year about my requirements for a mortgage and they were very specific about needing statements showing rent, bills, savings etc... when the time comes for me to apply for a mortgage, and this is the only place I have ever rented where I have been asked to try and mask what the payments are, I won't be doing it as it can jeopardize my chances
Thanks!!!

@Nora Green Crowd
I wonder is there a possibility she was in arrears and the bill has been standardized to 50 a month to clear them? Her water is heated through the gas too so we would heat that most days for 2 showers but we haven't used the heating in a few weeks as we haven't needed it, well I haven't anyway. That's why I want to see a bill because either I'm paying her arrears for before I moved in or else I'm paying money for a bill which isn't even owed!!!
But again I'm really anxious about asking for her to show one in case she thinks I'm doubting her.

Jesus I hate sharing

MissMotivated

@loyatemu
I think she said the gas costs 150 a month in the winter months so my concern is we only pay 50 a month and then are landed with a big bill to pay the difference at the end of the year, she said she hasn't gotten a bill since she changed the gas to this type of payment but was expecting one, I don't mind so much for the summer as we will probably be in credit but from September I want to know the exact cost of what's owed so I can pay extra each month and not have to pay it all in one go at Christmas!!

loyatemu

loyatemu wrote: »

sounds like she's on some form of level-payment plan, so the total bill for the year is expected to be 600, equates to 50 per month every month.

Yeah I get how it works just looks like a lot for gas in a two person house. They must be very heavy users.

MissMotivated wrote: »

@loyatemu
I think she said the gas costs 150 a month in the winter months so my concern is we only pay 50 a month and then are landed with a big bill to pay the difference at the end of the year,

150 euro a month sounds like a massive amount to me even for winter. I understand that you appear to be heating water also for showers but still. We have an electric shower so we don't even heat water during the summer (we basically dont turn on the boiler at all) and in fairness people aren't around much at weekends or over Christmas etc but anyway we use about 200 to 250 euro (give or take) of gas in the whole year and that's a 3 person house.

Now I understand we are exceptionally light users but I'd still be wanting to get a look at them bills if I were you as they sound too high, 300 euro every two months is a lot for gas!!

As an aside I don't like this level pay thing that's being pushed a lot now, much rather pay the actual bill. I also always ring in a meter reading as we are always getting over estimates.

tradhead

Hi,

I'm sorry to hear about that situation, it really sucks. As regards the gas bill, when I moved into a house share six months ago I transferred the gas bill into my name, and they offered me a 5% discount to use paperless billing, and another 5% off to use "level pay", which sounds like that's what your room-mate is doing.

If I were you I would ask her to cancel the level pay (and to request a paper bill as well) as it would give you peace of mind, and mean that there is no money due either to you or from you if/when you decide to move out. (I did this as it was wrceking my head trying to figure out what we owed between three of us, and it was a really simple process).

Hope that helps a little!

housetypeb

You are considered a licensee rather than a tenant when you share a house with the landlord or his immediate family.
You can make requests but they're under no obligation to heed them.


Taken from http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/sharing_accommodation_with_your_landlord.html

Rules

As you are living in your landlord's home, you do not have a standard tenancy agreement. Instead, you have a 'licensee agreement' with your landlord. This means that you are in the property by the landlord’s consent or invitation. As a result, you cannot avail of the type of protection that tenants are entitled to under the Residential Tenancies Act 2004.

The position is the same if you are living with a spouse, child or parent of a landlord and you do not have a tenancy agreement or written lease.

As you do not have the same rights as someone whose tenancy comes under the landlord and tenant legislation, you should be aware of the following:

Your landlord is not obliged to provide you with a rent book or a statement of rent paid
He does not have to ensure that your accommodation meets any minimum physical standards
Any notice you may get of the termination of the tenancy is at the discretion of your landlord (although he is obliged to give reasonable notice, the specifics of this notice may vary)
Your landlord is not obliged to register the tenancy with the Private Residential Tenancies Board (PRTB)
You cannot use the PRTB's dispute resolution service if a disagreement arises between you and your landlord
You are not protected by the Equal Status Acts 2000-2012, which prohibit discrimination on grounds of gender, civil status, family status, age, race, religion, disability, sexual orientation and membership of the Traveller community

MissMotivated

@Nora Green Crowd
I agree I think it's a crazy amount, the house is old so probably colder but I still think the gas would have to be on an unreal amount to cost that much. I am just going to have to pluck up the courage to ask to see the bills when they come!!

@tradhead
I know she won't cancel the level pay, I asked her last week could she sign up for both Gas and ESB online so I could also access the bills and pay money off when I had a bit spare cash to keep ahead of them , she said no (even though she had previously said she would) and that she prefers the way she does things, I asked then could I have the account details to pay them over the phone (I was also thinking this way I could check the balance of them so wouldn't need to ask for the bill) again she said no she just wants my half off me as agreed and that she needs to be seen to be paying the full bills herself.

To be honest as I type this I am realising I must be an eejit paying for bills I've never seen
Next time around I'm going to ask her to leave the bills out on the table and I'll pay my half, if she won't then I think I'll just leave there because I think she very much wants it all her own way.
My sister has said I can stay with her and her husband until I get something else if I need to move out of this place so at least that's an option if it comes to that.

Alanstrainor

Those level pay agreements are supposed to work by averaging out the amount you pay over the course of the year. So generally your summer bill will be less than 50 a month, and your winter bill will be more so whatever way they calculate it they come up with the 50 a month. The kicker is that if you are using more than this, you will be a hit by a potentially massive bill at the end of the year.

The person who registered the account can access this information online I believe. I stayed well away from level-pay though.

MissMotivated

@housetypeb
I knew about the PRTB part alright, didn't realise they weren't obliged to give some statement of rent paid, I guess the thing is she had no problem with me labeling the transfers when she was working and we discussed that I would transfer through the bank when I took the room, it's not my fault she lost her job and now can't have it labeled.

Really I guess she needs someone living with her who doesn't care about paying her cash etc... and I need somewhere where things are more formal.

frostyjacks

If you want to show a direct debit from your account each month for rent, but this girl doesn't want her bank account showing as receiving the money, just set up another account in your name, transfer the money into this account and withdraw it in cash. You can still describe it as rent in the description when your setting up the standing order.

MissMotivated

@Alanstrainor
That's exactly my worry, that we'll have a huge bill come the end of the year, I am going to ask her to ask for a bill if we don't get one next month so we can see where we are.
She won't register the account online so that's not an option.

MissMotivated

@frostyjacks
I thought of that but I didn't think I could have more than one current account? I suppose it could be a savings account instead, I presume that would do for the bank as records?

frostyjacks

MissMotivated wrote: »

@frostyjacks
I thought of that but I didn't think I could have more than one current account? Suppose to could be a savings account also maybe, I presume that would do for the bank as records?

You can have as many current accounts as you like.

housetypeb

housetypeb wrote: »

You are considered a licensee rather than a tenant when you share a house with the landlord or his immediate family.
You can make requests but they're under no obligation to heed them.

How does this work from a tax perspective?

If the person living in the house is the daughter of the owners and not her actual house (as appears to be the case) does it fall under the rent a room scheme and no income tax is due (from either the daughter or parents?)

MissMotivated wrote: »

@housetypeb
I guess the thing is she had no problem with me labeling the transfers when she was working and we discussed that I would transfer through the bank when I took the room, it's not my fault she lost her job and now can't have it labeled.

I wouldn't be overly concerned about what its labelled as. If you have money being transferred from your account at the start of every month for a fixed amount then its fairly obvoius to the bank that its rent being paid.

MissMotivated wrote: »

@frostyjacks
I thought of that but I didn't think I could have more than one current account? I suppose it could be a savings account instead, I presume that would do for the bank as records?

There is nothing stopping you having more than one current account but have it in a different bank, just keep in mind you will have charges for the second one too. This is a good suggestion however as you have your transfers and she gets cash. Another option would be a credit union account rather than a current account as their wont be charges.

tradhead

Sorry, this just occurred to me...

If she is receiving presumably a few hundred euro a month from you for rent, she rightly shouldn't be entitled to social welfare! I had to survive on the lower rate of JSB for a couple of months recently, and obliterated all my savings because my rent was nearly as much as what I was getting from Social Welfare.

I think that's extremely rich for her to ask you to help her to conceal this fact, on top of the bills situation, and the fact that she does sfa around the house.

MissMotivated

@tradhead
This is exactly my point, the only reason she doesn't want me to label the transfers or even pay them through the bank is in case she gets means tested and this affects her social welfare, but when I moved in there she had a job so she had no problem with the bank transfers, at least if she did she didn't mention it.

From what she's told me, the house was left to her father by his mother and will be eventually willed to her and her sister so she plans at some stage to get a mortgage to buy her sister out, but she's been living there for 7 years and hasn't done it yet so she's in no hurry it seems.

El_Duderino 09

MissMotivated wrote: »

But again I'm really anxious about asking for her to show one in case she thinks I'm doubting her.

You are doubting her. It's a business transaction. You also have to live with the person but it's perfectly reasonable to ask to see a bill when you're asked to pay your share.

The bill could be in arrears or it could be in credit by the time you leave. I pay a flat rate of £85 per month for gas and electricity. I looked at my account online and they estimate we will be £300 in credit within a year.

You can ask them to refund any credit now and then do the same (or pay any debt) whenever you move out.

MissMotivated

I hadn't even thought of my leaving and we could be in credit!!! If I leave she's not going to give me anything back even if we are in credit, she hasn't the price of a loaf of bread most days!!! I would just have to take the loss if I do leave

MissMotivated

Just rang my branch to check, so yeah they can't say for definite it will suffice but if I was to open a second account and transfer the same amount on roughly the same day each month that should do as a record for the bank, but I will be liable for charges on that account also, 4 euro every month.

Lux23

I would just keep calling it rent, it will make no difference to her if the SW ask her to explain what the money is.

MissMotivated

Lux23 wrote: »

I would just keep calling it rent, it will make no difference to her if the SW ask her to explain what the money is.

I guess she could lose her SW though if they means test her and see she gets a certain amount from me every month for rent and bills, I don't want to be the cause of that happening to her either but I do have to think of myself down the road aswell.

tradhead

MissMotivated wrote: »

I guess she could lose her SW though if they means test her and see she gets a certain amount from me every month for rent and bills, I don't want to be the cause of that happening to her either but I do have to think of myself down the road aswell.

I get that you don't want to be the cause of any trouble...but that's exactly what should happen imho, she's lying to get money that she effectively doesn't deserve if she has another considerable source of income.

Regardless tho, it's definitely not your responsibility to cover up for her.

runawaybishop

MissMotivated wrote: »

I guess she could lose her SW though if they means test her and see she gets a certain amount from me every month for rent and bills,

Good. Fraud is fraud, don't facilitate it.

Lux23

MissMotivated wrote: »

I guess she could lose her SW though if they means test her and see she gets a certain amount from me every month for rent and bills, I don't want to be the cause of that happening to her either but I do have to think of myself down the road aswell.

But she will anyway because how is she going to explain where the money is coming from? The only way around it is to ask for you to pay her in cash and if I was you, I would refuse to do this.