DART Underground planning due to lapse, but lots of Airport Luas talk?

Van.Bosch

Where will it actually terminate or is it an extension of the green line? My preference would be for it to be a seperate line with a seperateb city centre terminus. My idea of ballsbridge or ringsend is probably a bit expensive but i would like to see it spur off the green line somewhere for a terminus. possibly down Dame street as far as the Central Bank or down suffolk street to Pearse station.

liam24

It's a spur off the green line from Cabra.

velo.2010

The problem with Dublin is that it is a small old world city without the 'Open Archetecture' of more modern developments which would enable easy construction of a metro system. Remember that all those underground systems in Europe were built a century ago when cities were growing or extensively redesigned like Paris. I think the idea of a Dublin Metro was a vanity project from the Celtic Tiger era. Expensive and not worth the trouble to build.

Dart Underground had more merit connecting the two main terminals but makes less sense when the Metro was shelved.

liam24

velo.2010 wrote: »

The problem with Dublin is that it is a small old world city without the 'Open Archetecture' of more modern developments which would enable easy construction of a metro system. Remember that all those underground systems in Europe were built a century ago when cities were growing or extensively redesigned like Paris. I think the idea of a Dublin Metro was a vanity project from the Celtic Tiger era. Expensive and not worth the trouble to build.

Dart Underground had more merit connecting the two main terminals but makes less sense when the Metro was shelved.

Building 10 metro lines would be a vanity project. The basic idea of Metro North plus Green Luas plus Dart Underground is a very important plan for Dublin which has been discussed for a century - it establishes a north-south and east-west transport spine that will serve the city in good stead for the next 100 years. We should have had a DART from Sandyford to Swords, but this was only half built with the expectation that the northern portion, Metro North, would come later. Again, the east-west portion, integrating all the existing railway lines into two high capacity DART lines, was watered down to the Luas Red line. All the big decisions were kicked down the road when we actually had the money to make them.

velo.2010

liam24 wrote: »

Building 10 metro lines would be a vanity project.

10 Metro lines would have been progress! (and better value for money). Instead we get the piecemeal arrangement we currently have. This should have all been done years ago.

Funny, how all those housing estates and shopping centres went up so fast yet feck all was done about our transport network! Planning or what;)

StonyIron

Dublin absolutely does not need 10 metro lines. Brussels is bigger and only has 5 and that's considered tons.

Bear in mind the STIB metro system serves the Brussels Capital Region, which is a "Larger Urban Zone" of 3,570,409 people.

The equivalent area in Dublin is 1,742,600

velo.2010

Last post wasn't meant to be too serious.

Just buy everyone a bike! Problem solved

liam24

StonyIron wrote: »

Dublin absolutely does not need 10 metro lines. Brussels is bigger and only has 5 and that's considered tons.

Bear in mind the STIB metro system serves the Brussels Capital Region, which is a "Larger Urban Zone" of 3,570,409 people.

The equivalent area in Dublin is 1,742,600

The Brussels metro doesn't even have that many lines - a lot of it is shared in the city centre and they fork out in the suburbs. As I said, the two DART lines with DU and the north-south DART from Sandyford to Swords would have been sufficient for 100 years. Get the capacity high enough and you could, for example, feed people from Tallaght into one of these lines with a suburban tram.

Calina

StonyIron wrote: »

Dublin absolutely does not need 10 metro lines. Brussels is bigger and only has 5 and that's considered tons.

Bear in mind the STIB metro system serves the Brussels Capital Region, which is a "Larger Urban Zone" of 3,570,409 people.

The equivalent area in Dublin is 1,742,600

The figure I have from IBSA for Region Bruxelles Capitale is 1.175 million which is less than half your figure. Source . Your figure dates from 2006 and is a Eurostat figure from Wikipedia on metropolitan areas which requires citation as far as I can see.

Also from Wikipedia on the large urban zones themselves is a figure for Brussels given as 1.8 million. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larger_urban_zone#Eurostat.27s_urban_definitions

Brussels is also in the process of implementing an RER type system and has had local rail options on the heavy rail system for years.

In many respects, you can't compare Brussels and Dublin because Brussels public transport system has developed and improved over the last 15 years. Services in Dublin were cut considerably on the bus front and on the DART front, and we didn't do Luas properly when we had an opportunity.

Calina

liam24 wrote: »

The Brussels metro doesn't even have that many lines - a lot of it is shared in the city centre and they fork out in the suburbs. As I said, the two DART lines with DU and the north-south DART from Sandyford to Swords would have been sufficient for 100 years. Get the capacity high enough and you could, for example, feed people from Tallaght into one of these lines with a suburban tram.

Brussels' system is augmented considerably by tramlines also. We have 2. Plus they have more local options on heavy rail.

I'm not sure I'd agree with assertions about things being sufficient for 100 years. But the current state of play where there is no coherent long term high level comprehensive transport for Dublin is irritating in the extreme and this apparently decision to do Luas out to the airport is short term and short sighted in my opinion.

Grandeeod

Sorry to interupt all this talk about metro lines in other European cities, but how is it relevant to the soon to be confirmed fact that Dublin is yet again about to be shafted in terms of DU and MN??

Calina

Grandeeod wrote: »

Sorry to interupt all this talk about metro lines in other European cities, but how is it relevant to the soon to be confirmed fact that Dublin is yet again about to be shafted in terms of DU and MN??

It's a variation on the classic debate of "Why can't we have nice things" which includes assorted versions of "Why should we have nice things, other places don't have nice things". This is part of the argument that includes "other places do have nice things".

I don't suppose there's a proposed routing for this Luas line floating around? I may have missed a link to same. Also I'm mightily unimpressed by the Irish Times editorial on BRT instead "because it's cheap" and we can't have nice things.

The word required, in my view, is cheapskate.

Lenton Lane

Calina wrote: »

It's a variation on the classic debate of "Why can't we have nice things" which includes assorted versions of "Why should we have nice things, other places don't have nice things". This is part of the argument that includes "other places do have nice things".

I don't suppose there's a proposed routing for this Luas line floating around? I may have missed a link to same. Also I'm mightily unimpressed by the Irish Times editorial on BRT instead "because it's cheap" and we can't have nice things.

The word required, in my view, is cheapskate.

That Irish Times editorial was pretty disgraceful. The only bit I agreed with was the rerouting of the Belfast line via the Airport and Swords. Otherwise it was pure Doheny & Nesbitt nonsense.

markpb

Calina wrote: »

I don't suppose there's a proposed routing for this Luas line floating around? I may have missed a link to same.

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Appraisal_Report_19112014_final.pdf&ved=0CBoQFjAAahUKEwiuwZr5mOjHAhVQOdsKHX11CkA&usg=AFQjCNEhyfAGM3yZ-mIWmz5gR6dcodZETg&sig2=4y4OZNRqDl_toFHovCs_WA

Grandeeod

Calina wrote: »

The word required, in my view, is cheapskate.

Or Nice things.:D

jd

markpb wrote: »

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Appraisal_Report_19112014_final.pdf&ved=0CBoQFjAAahUKEwiuwZr5mOjHAhVQOdsKHX11CkA&usg=AFQjCNEhyfAGM3yZ-mIWmz5gR6dcodZETg&sig2=4y4OZNRqDl_toFHovCs_WA

And some stuff from the presentation on Fingal Transport after Christmas

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=94076562&postcount=332

expectationlost

Alan Farrell press release http://alanfarrell.ie/a-long-term-sustainable-transport-option-for-swords-dublin-airport-must-be-delivered-now/ im not sure what he wants

Lenton Lane

expectationlost wrote: »

Alan Farrell press release http://alanfarrell.ie/a-long-term-sustainable-transport-option-for-swords-dublin-airport-must-be-delivered-now/ im not sure what he wants

Pretty obvious really. He knows Luas is what's being offered by the Department and wants his constituents to give him the credit. Note the careful choice of weasel words like "rail based".

Grandeeod

expectationlost wrote: »

Alan Farrell press release http://alanfarrell.ie/a-long-term-sustainable-transport-option-for-swords-dublin-airport-must-be-delivered-now/ im not sure what he wants

Given that a timeframe of between six and ten years is necessary for the development of such a vital transport hub,

Its obvious what he wants.

Fudge.

His entire press release is full of **** and if brought onto any media, he could be torn asunder.

Grandeeod

“As we faced into the economic crisis, the previous government made many promises, including the provision of Metro North, which were simply unfeasible at that time. However, with our economy firmly on the road to recovery, I believe that the provision of a light-rail based transport option to link the North County with the city centre is vital in order to promote the future sustainable development of Swords and its surrounding areas and will no doubt take thousands of car journeys off our roads in the coming decade.

I'm no FF supporter, but that is some seriously misguided ****e.

Idbatterim

“The delivery of a new, long-term, sustainable transport option to serve Swords and Dublin Airport must happen now” says Alan Farrell, Fine Gael TD for Dublin Fingal.

long term and sustainable! LOL! Im going to email him a link to the three separate threads on this topic and he can see what people who have some interest and knowledge on the subject, make of this shambles v the ah shure we dont need good infrastructure brigade...

Banjoxed

Lenton Lane wrote: »

Pretty obvious really. He knows Luas is what's being offered by the Department and wants his constituents to give him the credit. Note the careful choice of weasel words like "rail based".

Up to ten years lead time?! For God's sake this has been wanged on about since DRRTS in 19-bloody-75.

Never mind kicking a can down the road, this is kicking Haughey's Talbot Horizon cars down the road. Are there any politicians on the government side that aren't lead by the nose by the senior civil service?

Grandeeod

Idbatterim wrote: »

long term and sustainable! LOL! Im going to email him a link to the three separate threads on this topic and he can see what people who have some interest and knowledge on the subject, make of this shambles v the ah shure we dont need good infrastructure brigade...

Best of luck! He won't read it!

Here's an example of what you are dealing with. Cast your mind back 10 years ago. A really concerted campaign to highlight the importance of DU was created by volunteers. It included a website explaining the project, with an email feature that you could send to TDs in the DU catchment area requesting their support for it. It had some success and a bit of failure. But it did make it onto the Transport 21 fiasco. However it had one epic failure from a certain TD by the name of Ciaran Cuffe representing the Dun Laoghaire area. He went above and beyond the call of duty by personally phoning one of the instigators of the website and demanding that he be taken off the email list as DU wasn't relevant to his constituency!!! He was a Green Party TD, but had no grasp of the DU project and its implications for his constituency, which was renowned for having the very first commuter railway in the world and being directly relevant to the DU project.

But, he was a railway supporter:rolleyes: because a few years later, he expressed more interest in some folly in the west of Ireland. Watch this video (Ive posted it before) as he salivates over the WRC, while failing completely to understand the needs of his constituency. This is crazy stuff, because it goes against the grain. His local issue is of huge importance, but he decides to support some daft Galway councillor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CcbiWSo-Kg

McAlban

Grandeeod wrote: »

Best of luck! He won't read it!

Here's an example of what you are dealing with. Cast your mind back 10 years ago. A really concerted campaign to highlight the importance of DU was created by volunteers. It included a website explaining the project, with an email feature that you could send to TDs in the DU catchment area requesting their support for it. It had some success and a bit of failure. But it did make it onto the Transport 21 fiasco. However it had one epic failure from a certain TD by the name of Ciaran Cuffe representing the Dun Laoghaire area. He went above and beyond the call of duty by personally phoning one of the instigators of the website and demanding that he be taken off the email list as DU wasn't relevant to his constituency!!! He was a Green Party TD, but had no grasp of the DU project and its implications for his constituency, which was renowned for having the very first commuter railway in the world and being directly relevant to the DU project.

But, he was a railway supporter:rolleyes: because a few years later, he expressed more interest in some folly in the west of Ireland. Watch this video (Ive posted it before) as he salivates over the WRC, while failing completely to understand the needs of his constituency. This is crazy stuff, because it goes against the grain. His local issue is of huge importance, but he decides to support some daft Galway councillor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CcbiWSo-Kg

Ah but he was in Government then!! Sustainable Public Transport was actually a priority for the Greens. (RIP Green Party).

Reading Farrel's Press Release. Either he is trying to say "Look I tried for you!" or Else he's Shafting Donohue. I think you all know which it is.

Grandeeod

McAlban wrote: »

Ah but he was in Government then!! Sustainable Public Transport was actually a priority for the Greens. (RIP Green Party).

Reading Farrel's Press Release. Either he is trying to say "Look I tried for you!" or Else he's Shafting Donohue. I think you all know which it is.

Cuffe still didn't know his arse from his elbow!

Farrell is just a wannabe.

ClovenHoof

Grandeeod wrote: »

Best of luck! He won't read it!

Here's an example of what you are dealing with. Cast your mind back 10 years ago. A really concerted campaign to highlight the importance of DU was created by volunteers. It included a website explaining the project, with an email feature that you could send to TDs in the DU catchment area requesting their support for it. It had some success and a bit of failure. But it did make it onto the Transport 21 fiasco. However it had one epic failure from a certain TD by the name of Ciaran Cuffe representing the Dun Laoghaire area. He went above and beyond the call of duty by personally phoning one of the instigators of the website and demanding that he be taken off the email list as DU wasn't relevant to his constituency!!! He was a Green Party TD, but had no grasp of the DU project and its implications for his constituency, which was renowned for having the very first commuter railway in the world and being directly relevant to the DU project.

But, he was a railway supporter:rolleyes: because a few years later, he expressed more interest in some folly in the west of Ireland. Watch this video (Ive posted it before) as he salivates over the WRC, while failing completely to understand the needs of his constituency. This is crazy stuff, because it goes against the grain. His local issue is of huge importance, but he decides to support some daft Galway councillor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CcbiWSo-Kg

Jesus Christ this is incredible to watch! Did people really elect this lunatic.

Van.Bosch

expectationlost wrote: »

Alan Farrell press release http://alanfarrell.ie/a-long-term-sustainable-transport-option-for-swords-dublin-airport-must-be-delivered-now/ im not sure what he wants

I emailed him asking him if he could translate it for me as I had read it 4 times and still didn't know what he wanted. I suppose at least he is talking about it but it just looks like I know the Luas has been chosen so if I demand a rail based solution.

His claim that MN was a FF project which was never feasible is curious considering there was a billboard in North Dublin for the last election saying "only a seat a the cabinet table can guarantee MN" vote James Reilly etc.etc.

Van.Bosch

liam24 wrote: »

It's a spur off the green line from Cabra.

Im not so sure about that, the RPA documentation has it as a blue colour which seems to indicate a seperate line.

markpb

Van.Bosch wrote: »

Im not so sure about that, the RPA documentation has it as a blue colour which seems to indicate a seperate line.

I don't know what document you read but p47 and p48 of the Fingal/North Dublin Transport Study is quite clear.

A new double junction would be constructed for the connection with Luas Cross City at Cabra. A tunnel would be required below the Botanic Gardens, approximately 2km in length. The tunnel would be a combination of bored tunnel and cut and cover sections;

The picture shows the first part in blue but the legend explains that blue means a tunnel.

Idbatterim

Donohoe knows this option is a joke! He should say kick it down the road another year or two (behind closed doors) or he resigns ... I get that its a political decision that may be out of his hands, but he as transport minister, should let it be known that its not fit for purpose... If he gets ejected from the party, he could always run for Renua, he will be another to have left on a matter of principle then! Im sure he would get a lot of votes on the metro north alone, assuming Renua would agree to it...

expectationlost

Van.Bosch wrote: »

I emailed him asking him if he could translate it for me as I had read it 4 times and still didn't know what he wanted. I suppose at least he is talking about it but it just looks like I know the Luas has been chosen so if I demand a rail based solution.

His claim that MN was a FF project which was never feasible is curious considering there was a billboard in North Dublin for the last election saying "only a seat a the cabinet table can guarantee MN" vote James Reilly etc.etc.

here you go http://www.independent.ie/regionals/fingalindependent/news/reilly-accused-of-making-cynical-election-promises-27813646.html

cgcsb

Unseat James Reilly in 2016 is what I say, I'm not in his constituency but would strongly advise anyone who is to do so.

Van.Bosch

expectationlost wrote: »

here you go http://www.independent.ie/regionals/fingalindependent/news/reilly-accused-of-making-cynical-election-promises-27813646.html

Excellent - knew i wasnt making it up.

Van.Bosch

markpb wrote: »

I don't know what document you read but p47 and p48 of the Fingal/North Dublin Transport Study is quite clear.



The picture shows the first part in blue but the legend explains that blue means a tunnel.

True but you could read that as the line will connect to the green line as opposed to being a spur. The document im referring to is the RPA document which was used for the briefings after christmas, whcih includes the phase 2 tunnel from cabra to SSG via Jervis etc.

It refers to : 13.4 km double track new line and all maps show it as a seperate colour but i guess it could be read both ways.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCcQFjABahUKEwj6yq-OjOrHAhXFFZQKHVmJBoY&url=http%3A%2F%2Fcastleviewresidents.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F01%2FLuas-D2-January-2015.pdf&usg=AFQjCNGE4hMuOuBK11b34cmrqjcRuLCB1g&bvm=bv.102022582,d.dGo

*i use the word "when" loosely

cgcsb

Van.Bosch wrote: »

True but you could read that as the line will connect to the green line as opposed to being a spur. The document im, referring to is the 10-12 slide RPA document which was used for the briefings after christmas, whcih includes the phase 2 tunnel from cabra to SSG via Jervis etc. Perhaps it becomes a seperate line when* that is built.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCcQFjABahUKEwj6yq-OjOrHAhXFFZQKHVmJBoY&url=http%3A%2F%2Fcastleviewresidents.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F01%2FLuas-D2-January-2015.pdf&usg=AFQjCNGE4hMuOuBK11b34cmrqjcRuLCB1g&bvm=bv.102022582,d.dGo

*i use the word "when" loosely

It'd still share the broadstone cutting now?

Also the station at Jervis would have to be mined out(incredibly expensive) due to lack of space and the current Jervis luas stop is very tightly confined at present, making it an interchange would be very dangerous for passengers, no doubt you'd see accidents very quickly and perhaps even a fatality, heaven forbid. The cost of that tunnel and the people mover would most likely make the project more expensive than just building metro north.

cgcsb

If this is happening it's important to get the route changed as much as possible, a tunnel from St Mobhi Road to Royal canal bank and on the surface to Dommink street would be much more direct and would allow for an interchange with Maynooth trains at Crossguns bridge.

McAlban

Van.Bosch wrote: »

Excellent - knew i wasnt making it up.

If you like that...

https://web.archive.org/web/20101024013331/http://reilly.ie/2010/10/19/why-i-back-the-metro-north-project/

In fairness, he does harp on a lot (at the time) about Gilmore opposing the MN project. But Still. He's my local minister, (even though he lives down the country somewhere now) so I'm going to take him and Farrell to task on this.

Jamie2k9

cgcsb wrote: »

Unseat James Reilly in 2016 is what I say, I'm not in his constituency but would strongly advise anyone who is to do so.

No a good idea considering the replacements in the area....

XPS_Zero

It's really depressing to read that Cuffe thing, a second Dart line and more frequent service , which DU gets us, would be of HUUUUUGE benefit to Dun Laoghaire.

Lots of people livng there have sisters and grand kids and kids out in the Kildare commuter belt and could hop on the Dart and switch on a platform to Dart line II instead of a long dart journey then another long bus journey, just one example.

MN being a ''ff'' project ...yes it was a FF project but it was also a no brainier, kind of thing any govt should do and at a time of recession is, contrary to their economic ignorance, EXACTLY the time to build projects like that. Look at the New Deal, the big dig, big public works projects BUST recessions! and even if they didn't you still get a huge boost to the economy, they are an investment NOT an expense.

I was at the airport dropping a friend off today I just tried to imagine after a horrific long winding meandering journey on an over-packed Luas then getting dumped off on a platform at the edge of the complex and hopping on ANOTHER tram like thing (the infamous 'people mover'), We were coming from the CC, would we not rather just jump on an air coach, get a guaranteed seat, air conditioning and be dropped right to the door of the terminal? no farting around changing modes at the edge of the airport!

Then mentally, i compared that to a nice efficient Metro running under the terminal where you have a nice fast comfortable trip on cars twice the length of a Luas so lots of space for you to spread your legs, then all you need do is go up an escalator or lift and head to your gate, no lugging your ass onto a people mover for a second journey.

This is such a disaster...

BoatMad

XPS_Zero wrote: »

It's really depressing to read that Cuffe thing, a second Dart line and more frequent service , which DU gets us, would be of HUUUUUGE benefit to Dun Laoghaire.

Lots of people livng there have sisters and grand kids and kids out in the Kildare commuter belt and could hop on the Dart and switch on a platform to Dart line II instead of a long dart journey then another long bus journey, just one example.

MN being a ''ff'' project ...yes it was a FF project but it was also a no brainier, kind of thing any govt should do and at a time of recession is, contrary to their economic ignorance, EXACTLY the time to build projects like that. Look at the New Deal, the big dig, big public works projects BUST recessions! and even if they didn't you still get a huge boost to the economy, they are an investment NOT an expense.

I was at the airport dropping a friend off today I just tried to imagine after a horrific long winding meandering journey on an over-packed Luas then getting dumped off on a platform at the edge of the complex and hopping on ANOTHER tram like thing (the infamous 'people mover'), We were coming from the CC, would we not rather just jump on an air coach, get a guaranteed seat, air conditioning and be dropped right to the door of the terminal? no farting around changing modes at the edge of the airport!

Then mentally, i compared that to a nice efficient Metro running under the terminal where you have a nice fast comfortable trip on cars twice the length of a Luas so lots of space for you to spread your legs, then all you need do is go up an escalator or lift and head to your gate, no lugging your ass onto a people mover for a second journey.

This is such a disaster...

A rather biased piece. No reason why the team can't pull up to the door. ( or underground )

Have you been on a crowded commuter train, leg room , what's that.

Grandeeod

expectationlost wrote: »

here you go http://www.independent.ie/regionals/fingalindependent/news/reilly-accused-of-making-cynical-election-promises-27813646.html

Don't forget Leo Varadkar.

https://irishelectionliterature.wordpress.com/2011/11/15/for-the-record-i-strongly-support-metro-north-letter-from-leo-varadkar-fine-gael-dublin-west-2011-general-election/

XPS_Zero

BoatMad wrote: »

A rather biased piece. No reason why the team can't pull up to the door. ( or underground )

Have you been on a crowded commuter train, leg room , what's that.

Well there is a reason why it can't pull up to the door or underground...that's not their proposal!

Idbatterim

I posted the below on "Fingal / North Dublin Transport Study", what are opinion on this thread?

ok, firstly they dont need to be done at the same time, joke of journey time to swords in particular and also to the airport sorted with much quicker dart, sorted. Capacity issue sorted. Cie and RPA bickering, probably sorted. Very little if any underground sections, sorted, so none of the usual "shure what would dublin be doing with an underground at all at all". Both dart and luas serve airport, sorted...

RPA put price of 600,000,000 of luas to swords, so just run it to the airport and say what E450,000,000 and the cost of HR1 was estimated by Irish rail to be 200,000,000 for 7.5km. HR2 would be an additional 4.8km, cost would vary considerably, depending on a number of factors under airport, but say another 400-500 million, so the airport gets dart and luas, can be done independent of each other, the amounts arent staggering each, they would be politically sellable...

these two schemes could probably be done for less than half the cost of even metro north revised and I am not sure how capacity would compare to MNR, but it would be interesting to work it out... so seeing as how we love consensus here, give everyone a share of the spoils. To me it seems a great option, figures should be palatable to everyone, dublin airport and north dublin get great transport solution, dublin airport is served by two systems, as I mentioned...

XPS_Zero

The ideal would have been to do TRANSPORT 21 (and I repeat it would have made a fantastic stimulus package, and public morale builder at a depressing time ) that way everything is taken care of.

Another change I'd suggest, and yes i know it would lead to strikes, no I don't care, I'd happily crush them, is that CIE be dissolved and it's people be absolved into the RPA (The ones who are surplus either announced as their position not being filled when they leave or offered voluntary redundancy
I'd do ONE rejig of the fare structure to get rid of the anomalies, create better incentives, switch to cashless busses then FREEZE the fares for 10 years, we've had a hike every year for the last 15 years, enough is enough.

end of the road

XPS_Zero wrote: »

Another change I'd suggest, and yes i know it would lead to strikes, no I don't care, I'd happily crush them

how.

Infini

XPS_Zero wrote: »

The ideal would have been to do TRANSPORT 21 (and I repeat it would have made a fantastic stimulus package, and public morale builder at a depressing time ) that way everything is taken care of.

Another change I'd suggest, and yes i know it would lead to strikes, no I don't care, I'd happily crush them, is that CIE be dissolved and it's people be absolved into the RPA (The ones who are surplus either announced as their position not being filled when they leave or offered voluntary redundancy
I'd do ONE rejig of the fare structure to get rid of the anomalies, create better incentives, switch to cashless busses then FREEZE the fares for 10 years, we've had a hike every year for the last 15 years, enough is enough.

You DO realise the reason the fares have gone up year on year is because one Fine Gael have been in power and their general rule is to force the costs as much as possible onto joe public. THATS the reason why the fares could be considered high compared to income because in other countries they actually have much higher subsidy to keep fares DOWN.

Also CIE technically now is nothing more than a holding company and nothing more they're generally 3 seperate companies. The real issue has always been wasteful management thats the problem. Theres people who got slotted in there via political apointments and other dodgy dealings that have no clue as to what theyre doing. Most people who have actual experience in the railway and who could actually do a better job running the place never really get a chance to. Its like everything else in this country.

aliveandkicking

Infini2 wrote: »

You DO realise the reason the fares have gone up year on year is because one Fine Gael have been in power and their general rule is to force the costs as much as possible onto joe public. THATS the reason why the fares could be considered high compared to income because in other countries they actually have much higher subsidy to keep fares DOWN.

Also CIE technically now is nothing more than a holding company and nothing more they're generally 3 seperate companies. The real issue has always been wasteful management thats the problem. Theres people who got slotted in there via political apointments and other dodgy dealings that have no clue as to what theyre doing. Most people who have actual experience in the railway and who could actually do a better job running the place never really get a chance to. Its like everything else in this country.

Fares have gone up year on year for the last 15 years. Fine Gael have only been in government for the last 4 and a half. I think we should stop pretending that when it comes to transport that any party is worse or better than the others. They are all equally atrocious. FF could/should have had DU & Metro built long before the recession hit. FG are proposing a ridiculous Luas line as the solution. Labour were against Metro Norh from the beginning and at best lukewarm on DU. Jesus even the Greens failed to get either DU or Metro started while in office. Not a peep from Eamon Ryan in the media either in the last few days in relation to the cancellation of DU. You would expect better from the Greens really. The entire political establishment in this country just doesn't get public transport.

end of the road

aliveandkicking wrote: »

Jesus even the Greens failed to get either DU or Metro started while in office. Not a peep from Eamon Ryan in the media either in the last few days in relation to the cancellation of DU. You would expect better from the Greens really.

oh no, you really wouldn't. that party is as useless as it gets

Idbatterim

Fares have gone up year on year for the last 15 years.

not if you have a willy wonka golden ticket - sorry I mean a free travel pass! unlimited free travel... Absolute joke, while our transport systems and infrastructure is laughable...

XPS_Zero

Idbatterim wrote: »

not if you have a willy wonka golden ticket - sorry I mean a free travel pass! unlimited free travel... Absolute joke, while our transport systems and infrastructure is laughable...

I don't have the weird chip on my shoulder about the FT pass that most seem to.

There is one change I'd make however, and not to the FT pass directly but to the criteria for disability allowance. Currently you can get it for certain things without specifying what specific condition you have been diagnosed with, and you can get it for addiction, and you are not required to be in treatment for this condition.

Change # 1 : Require everyone getting disability to be diagnosed with a specific condition in the medical books AND in active regular timetabled treatment.

''malaise" is apparently one you can write on the form, that's absurd, ok so you have malaise, you're tired all the time, go get some blood tests is there a physical problem? Fine treat it and get it better that way they won't be on the thing forever. Is it depression? Fine then make the person be involved in regular, scheduled medical treatment with an approx timetable and review dates. This would cut out so many scammers. Make a rule that it has to be a specifically diagnosed medical condition you are IN TREATMENT for. Only allow FT passes for those in disability in those categories if their finances are below x amount and or they can't drive and have no other way of getting to treatment and getting around.

Change #2: No FT passes for addicts.
I'd create a separate payment and category for them , and to get that cash require them to also be in timetabled treatment, but I'd not let them, unlike the above, get a FT pass for it. I'm sorry the addicts have caused too much trouble on public transport I'd even consider making a rule that they can't travel on public transport after certain hours at all