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Dublin to London and back in an i3 [Journey Log]

  • 25-06-2015 5:14pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,285 ✭✭✭


    I'm heading from Dublin to London tonight for the Formula E Stage 11 & 12 this weekend. And I plan on doing it on full electric power and updating this thread as I go. For anyone who's not familiar with electric cars this journey is much easier in a Leaf because my i3 uses a better (*settle down* Mad_Lad) CCS rapid charger, which unfortunately for the moment there are fewer of than the Leaf's ChaDeMo. I'm also expecting some trouble because many of the UK CCS rapids are manufactured by DBT unlike the Irish network which is mostly ABB and efacec. DBT CCS chargers have major compatibility issues with BMW i3s and Volkswagen eGolfs (i.e. every bloody CCS equipped car on the road).

    Forgot to charge so I'll be leaving home with about a 35-40% charge
    I have a rough idea of a plan but haven't bothered to map specific charging stations, just a general route.

    Plan in a nutshell:
    Catch the 20:55 ferry, charge up to 100% on the ferry on the way over.

    Staying overnight in Bangor because it will be almost 1AM by the time I get out of Holyhead

    Ecotricity Charger in Holyhead not important as I'll be passing it with a full battery.The next charger in Rhyl is marked as down on the ecotricity map. Possibly not commissioned yet as it was only placed there this month.
    Next CCS chargers are three chargers on the ring road/m56 surrounding Chester.

    Then a quick trip down the M6 to London stopping if required at the motorway services rapid chargers and repeat the process in reverse on Monday.


«1

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,050 ✭✭✭nokia69


    how do you charge on the Ferry, do you need to book the charger ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,285 ✭✭✭cros13


    On the ferry now... boarded first and pulled up to the podpoint charger.
    I brought a type 1 to type adapter so I can use the tethered podpoint.

    Photos to follow once i have enough bandwidth.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,285 ✭✭✭cros13


    nokia69 wrote: »
    how do you charge on the Ferry, do you need to book the charger ?

    It's a 16A pod point type 1 tethered and there is a 13 Amp three pin socket available as well.
    You add "Electric Car Charging" as an extra to your booking and it's worth reminding them when you check in.


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Don't you have the Jenny anyway in case you run out or chargers don't work ?

    How is CCS better than ChaDeMo tell me ? :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 195 ✭✭Dexter1979


    Rhyl actually blew a good few bits when somebody tried to charge a week or 2 ago. I used it on May 31st and it was fine. Met the Britisch Gas engineers who support the chargers at Sedgemoor North services. They were doing a CCS update when I arrived. Most Ecotricity spots have 2 chargers. 1 AC/Chademo, 1 CCS/Chademo. I had little issue with any of them on my travels. I would be more worried about queues than chargers not working. But then again, I use AC which is simpler than Chademo or CCS ;)

    Enjoy the GP! Should be a good one!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,285 ✭✭✭cros13


    Rhyl definitely down, charger powered off. Stopped up at Chester services now charging from a DBT :). Arrived here from Bangor with more than 50km left.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,285 ✭✭✭cros13


    So... In London......totally on battery power.

    4 rapid charging stops, about 20 minutes a piece:

    Chester M56 services.

    Stafford South Services

    Birmingham Airport

    Oxford Services

    No issues bar some DBT tomfoolery at Oxford services. Pretty much arrived at all rapids (bar oxford) with 40-ish km still on the battery.

    Spent four times as much time stuck in traffic as charging, including a great two and a half hours to do 7km on the M40 due to two lanes being closed at 17:00 on a Friday evening for apparently no reason whatsoever.

    Total rapid charging en-route: 1 hour 33 minutes
    Total distance covered: 582.2km
    Time stuck in traffic: don't ask
    Coffees: many


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,285 ✭✭✭cros13


    Photos!

    Dublin about to set off, forgot to charge night before so setting off for london with about 35% charge!:

    DSC_0178.JPG

    On the ferry charging:

    DSC_0179.JPG

    My dodgy J1772 to Type 2 Mennekes adapter:

    DSC_0181.JPG

    Topping up the battery the last 10-15% overnight in Bangor, could have just used the rapid in holyhead... but I was knackered... it was 1:30AM:

    DSC_0183.JPG

    Chester:

    DSC_0187.JPG


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,285 ✭✭✭cros13


    Stafford South:

    DSC_0189.JPG

    Birmingham Airport:

    DSC_0191.JPG


  • Registered Users Posts: 195 ✭✭Dexter1979


    Great to see. Think I told you before that it would be easier to cross the UK in an I3 than crossing Ireland :)

    I'm convinced that some rapid charger problems in Ireland are related to bad power supply. The chargers themselves are mostly fine. Had no issue with any efacec triple standard model but in Ireland some, not all, cause nothing but trouble.

    Enjoy the GP. That track looked narrow from what I saw!


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  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Dexter1979 wrote: »

    I'm convinced that some rapid charger problems in Ireland are related to bad power supply. The chargers themselves are mostly fine. Had no issue with any efacec triple standard model but in Ireland some, not all, cause nothing but trouble.

    No problems with ChaDeMo ! :P and they charge at a higher current !


  • Registered Users Posts: 132 ✭✭GreyDad


    Well done and thanks for the pics:) Glad it's been do-able from an EV perspective so far. Enjoy the GP I'll look out for you when I watch it on the telly :)

    There was some major snafu on the M40 yesterday but not as bad as my trip back from London to Somerset on Thursday evening which was 140 miles of stop-go because the Glasto lot were all migrating to the festival :(


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Still, having 2 fast chargers together would be really really good, I wonder why the ESB don't do this, is it because of poor network or money or both ?

    All you get from the ESB is "we will upgrade as demand grows" meaning we will upgrade when we see fit !


  • Registered Users Posts: 132 ✭✭GreyDad


    The problem sometimes in the UK with the multiple units is that if any one of the (typically 3) chargers is faulty the whole unit reports as being offline. Often this is not the case - it seems that mostly on a UK rapid the CCS charger fails but that then reports the whole unit as offline even though the AC and Chademo are still working. I've seen this myself at some Ecotricity chargers up near Bristol, Zapmap reported them as offline for over a week but in fact the Chademo was working fine when I got there and had never been down.

    I couldn't possibly comment on the relative merits of CCS and Chademo :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,285 ✭✭✭cros13


    Primarily money. Part of the plan for the network expansion this summer as I understand it is doubling up at popular locations. Dun laoghaire is already doubled up but the older charger is offline for some reason. Seen that on ecotricitys network too, one charger broken...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,285 ✭✭✭cros13


    Arrived back in Ireland tonight.

    1532km driven. 8 total rapid charges. Average 7.2km/kWh (was stuck in traffic a lot so a lot of really low speed driving mixed with pulses of 110-130kmh driving)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,404 ✭✭✭peposhi


    cros13 wrote: »
    Arrived back in Ireland tonight.

    1532km driven. 8 total rapid charges. Average 7.2km/kWh (was stuck in traffic a lot so a lot of really low speed driving mixed with pulses of 110-130kmh driving)

    Brilliant result.
    Wonder how many fast charges that would have been with a Leaf :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,285 ✭✭✭cros13


    peposhi wrote: »
    Brilliant result.
    Wonder how many fast charges that would have been with a Leaf :D

    I didn't really need one of the rapid charges but Source London didn't send my card in time so I was unsure about getting access to the level 2 infrastructure in the City. I also went back via Milton Keynes (post coming on that) which meant a longer return journey (would have done an over night charge there but the premier inn only had a rapid charger)


    There is only one working CCS charger inside the M25. ChaDeMo users have a lot more choice of charging stop and the Leaf gets a tiny bit more range on the motorway.


  • Registered Users Posts: 338 ✭✭caster


    As a matter of interest, how do you find the i3? I'm very tempted by it myself... but it may a bit outside my budget?

    Do you find the lack of a large number of CCS chargers in Ireland to be a big issue for you?

    Thx
    C


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,285 ✭✭✭cros13


    caster wrote: »
    As a matter of interest, how do you find the i3? I'm very tempted by it myself... but it may a bit outside my budget?

    It's a heck of a lot of fun to drive. If it suits your lifestyle and you can possibly fit it in the budget it's worth every penny.

    Do you find the lack of a large number of CCS chargers in Ireland to be a big issue for you?

    Thx
    C

    The CCS network is growing quickly, since I picked up my car in February there have been at least two CCS locations added every month. So we're catching up with ChaDeMo, CCS-Map has seen the number of chargers here in europe almost triple since the start of the year. All new rapid charging locations installed in Ireland will have CCS, with 20 planned this year. I've got CCS already covering my major routes (Dublin to North Tipp & general Dublin area) so I'm happy.

    I had a 141 Leaf before the i3, sure you have a lot more rapid charging but the i3 has twice the power to weight and handles a lot more sharply.

    Here's the CCS map that ESB updates directly:
    https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?mid=zVDgdgMW7RMA.kduTOkI5y3ts&hl=en

    I'm the country editor for Openchargemap so until I add a charger for Ireland it doesn't get added to http://ccs-map.eu/

    Wouldn't touch the e-Golf, it's not a purpose built EV and suffers for that. It's also similarly priced to the i3 which is in a different league.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,285 ✭✭✭cros13


    One thing to note as well is that the i3 has a 7.4kW onboard charger (more than twice the charge rate of the default charger in the Leaf).

    If you ever get stuck a 22kW should give you enough power to reach the next rapid in short order.

    Don't rely on times to charge to 100%, all you ever need is enough to get where you are going or to the next rapid charger with a bit of a buffer.


  • Registered Users Posts: 338 ✭✭caster


    cros13 wrote: »
    The CCS network is growing quickly, since I picked up my car in February there have been at least two CCS locations added every month. So we're catching up with ChaDeMo, CCS-Map has seen the number of chargers here in europe almost triple since the start of the year. All new rapid charging locations installed in Ireland will have CCS, with 20 planned this year. I've got CCS already covering my major routes (Dublin to North Tipp & general Dublin area) so I'm happy.

    I had a 141 Leaf before the i3, sure you have a lot more rapid charging but the i3 has twice the power to weight and handles a lot more sharply.

    Here's the CCS map that ESB updates directly:
    https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?mid=zVDgdgMW7RMA.kduTOkI5y3ts&hl=en

    I'm the country editor for Openchargemap so until I add a charger for Ireland it doesn't get added to http://ccs-map.eu/

    Wouldn't touch the e-Golf, it's not a purpose built EV and suffers for that. It's also similarly priced to the i3 which is in a different league.

    Thanks for the maps, exactly what I have been looking for. Looks like there enough chargers in the locations I would be going to.

    Re the i3, I actually thought it was much higher priced than the e-Golf, I may have been comparing it to the Rex version ? I do feel that it is needed to ensure a higher re-sale value in a few years times when there may be many EV's with considerably higher range out there.

    I have heard the i3 is fantastic to drive, I may try and get a test drive in the next few weeks - although I always find test drives are a dangerous (i.e. expensive) thing to do :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,285 ✭✭✭cros13


    caster wrote: »
    Thanks for the maps, exactly what I have been looking for. Looks like there enough chargers in the locations I would be going to.

    Only going to improve... Ballacolla charger just opened last week.
    caster wrote: »
    Re the i3, I actually thought it was much higher priced than the e-Golf, I may have been comparing it to the Rex version ? I do feel that it is needed to ensure a higher re-sale value in a few years times when there may be many EV's with considerably higher range out there.

    AFAIR the eGolf starts at €32,500 while the i3 starts a €34,000. You do need to add €700 for the CCS (DC Fast Charge Prep is what they call it). Unless you want leather seats go for the base trim and buy the wood dash as a spare part for about €400 after delivery. Don't go for the 20" wheels as the tyres on those are very difficult to get and prone to damage.
    caster wrote: »
    I have heard the i3 is fantastic to drive, I may try and get a test drive in the next few weeks - although I always find test drives are a dangerous (i.e. expensive) thing to do :)

    You will have a grin from ear to ear the first second you hit the accelerator. My times and a lot of the reviewers times show the 7.2 second 0-100 to be very conservative, realistically it's 6.5 seconds or even less if you code it!
    The i3 is the fastest car BMW has ever made from 0-50 (including the i8)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,285 ✭✭✭cros13


    caster wrote: »
    I do feel that it is needed to ensure a higher re-sale value in a few years times when there may be many EV's with considerably higher range out there.

    There has been some talk of a battery upgrade being offered to existing i3 owners in late 2016 / early 2017

    The ReX ups the price by almost €10k due to VRT and the loss of half the SEAI grant. Also your road tax goes up €50.

    I have a ReX, driven 13,700km on battery and about 200km on the ReX (mostly avoidable)


  • Registered Users Posts: 338 ✭✭caster


    cros13 wrote: »
    There has been some talk of a battery upgrade being offered to existing i3 owners in late 2016 / early 2017

    The ReX ups the price by almost €10k due to VRT and the loss of half the SEAI grant. Also your road tax goes up €50.

    I have a ReX, driven 13,700km on battery and about 200km on the ReX (mostly avoidable)

    Yeah, I figure I could personally live without the ReX, more concerned about the re-saleability without it - although 10K more to buy in the first place negates that really.

    I live in an apartment, so need to look in to too. My car park space is allocated and about 10 metres from the meters so I'm hoping the management company (who are actually also the builders of the block) will be amenable to me putting in a charge point.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,285 ✭✭✭cros13


    caster wrote: »
    Yeah, I figure I could personally live without the ReX, more concerned about the re-saleability without it - although 10K more to buy in the first place negates that really.

    I live in an apartment, so need to look in to too. My car park space is allocated and about 10 metres from the meters so I'm hoping the management company (who are actually also the builders of the block) will be amenable to me putting in a charge point.

    Exactly the same as me. I used the same electrician as the management company use for general work and had no issues getting permission.

    ESB will not do apartment installs so if you can think of somewhere else a charger might be useful have them fit it there.


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    No doubt the I3 is a lot more fun, however think carefully if you think the extra cash is worth it and remember the Leaf will be getting about 20-25 "miles" more range than the I3 for the 2016 model year.

    The i3 is a different league, It's a BMW after all so the extra power alone might be worth the extra cash, and you can spend serious money on options, but I feel the extra range of the 2016 Leaf is worth a lot more !


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,404 ✭✭✭peposhi


    And here comes the clash of the Titans - Mad Lad and Cros13... Guys, you both are a walking EV encyclopaedia. Just from reading your posts you can learn everything about EVs...


  • Registered Users Posts: 338 ✭✭caster


    cros13 wrote: »

    You will have a grin from ear to ear the first second you hit the accelerator. My times and a lot of the reviewers times show the 7.2 second 0-100 to be very conservative, realistically it's 6.5 seconds or even less if you code it!
    The i3 is the fastest car BMW has ever made from 0-50 (including the i8)

    I had a test drive this week of i3 - very very impressed. It drives really well and so responsive. I am not sure I am a huge fan of the design overall but the cabin (which is more important for me) is fantastic, everything is quality as you'd expect from BMW, a huge step up from the VW e-golf.

    First time driving an electric car and its a whole new experience. I can understand now why people say they never want to go back to petrol/diesel cars.

    Guess I better start saving !


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  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    caster wrote: »
    I had a test drive this week of i3 - very very impressed. It drives really well and so responsive. I am not sure I am a huge fan of the design overall but the cabin (which is more important for me) is fantastic, everything is quality as you'd expect from BMW, a huge step up from the VW e-golf.

    First time driving an electric car and its a whole new experience. I can understand now why people say they never want to go back to petrol/diesel cars.

    Guess I better start saving !

    You could also go for the much cheaper Leaf or Zoe, they're not bad cars and the Leaf is good to drive and well built, not as much fun as the BMW, the I3 has about 70 more HP in a much lighter chassis.

    The I3 as built from the ground up to be an EV unlike the E-Golf and Leaf, which are more ICE conversions. The Leaf was designed this way in 2010 to minimise production costs.

    The Leaf is getting a larger battery hopefully in the Autumn 2015 it should have 20-30 Kms more range than the I3 for a lot cheaper but if the Power and build quality of the I3 suits you more then this is where you see the money better spent.

    Cros13 says the I3 is getting a range upgrade in 2016 ? any links ? I haven't seen any reference to this.


  • Registered Users Posts: 132 ✭✭GreyDad


    The I3 as built from the ground up to be an EV unlike the E-Golf and Leaf, which are more ICE conversions. The Leaf was designed this way in 2010 to minimise production costs.

    Not quite true - the Leaf *is* a ground-up EV design, it's not built on any pre-existing chassis and certainly isn't a conversion from an existing model, unlike the e-Up, e-Golf etc..

    It does use common components from the rest of the Nissan range to keep production costs down, unlike the i3 which basically invented everything from scratch, hence the price.


  • Registered Users Posts: 338 ✭✭caster


    You could also go for the much cheaper Leaf or Zoe, they're not bad cars and the Leaf is good to drive and well built, not as much fun as the BMW, the I3 has about 70 more HP in a much lighter chassis.

    The I3 as built from the ground up to be an EV unlike the E-Golf and Leaf, which are more ICE conversions. The Leaf was designed this way in 2010 to minimise production costs.

    The Leaf is getting a larger battery hopefully in the Autumn 2015 it should have 20-30 Kms more range than the I3 for a lot cheaper but if the Power and build quality of the I3 suits you more then this is where you see the money better spent.

    Cros13 says the I3 is getting a range upgrade in 2016 ? any links ? I haven't seen any reference to this.

    I will probably give the Leaf a test drive too - a dealer only 10 mins from where I live. I am sure it would work better budget-wise but it'll be hard to live up to the i3 - I really wasn't expecting to be as impressed as I was with it.... such a great car to drive with a top quality interior, and there's all the toys :)


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    caster wrote: »
    I will probably give the Leaf a test drive too - a dealer only 10 mins from where I live. I am sure it would work better budget-wise but it'll be hard to live up to the i3 - I really wasn't expecting to be as impressed as I was with it.... such a great car to drive with a top quality interior, and there's all the toys :)

    What really turned me off the I3 was the CCS charging standard, so go to the E-cars website, iuse the filter at the top of the charge point map and compare ChaDeMo fast chargers to CCS and see if this will impact you or not, igf it does then the Leaf would suit you better.

    The Rex version of the I3 is disgracefully expensive all that extra tax doesn;t help.

    If the I3 does get more range in 2016 then I would hold on, or wait for the Leaf which is hopefully going to get a range boost this Autumn.


  • Registered Users Posts: 132 ✭✭GreyDad


    It's the rear 'suicide doors' I really don't like - as a parent with kids I could never own a car with such an arrangement. I think they're a major safety concern.

    That and the price ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 338 ✭✭caster


    What really turned me off the I3 was the CCS charging standard, so go to the E-cars website, iuse the filter at the top of the charge point map and compare ChaDeMo fast chargers to CCS and see if this will impact you or not, igf it does then the Leaf would suit you better.

    The Rex version of the I3 is disgracefully expensive all that extra tax doesn;t help.

    If the I3 does get more range in 2016 then I would hold on, or wait for the Leaf which is hopefully going to get a range boost this Autumn.

    Had a test drive of the Leaf today, very nice to drive. Cabin is a definite step down but of course the price is much much more affordable. Overall, I'm impressed - though the i3 is much nicer to drive IMO but you pay for that privilege.

    The Leaf is very affordable for me and its almost certain that I would change in 3 yrs max ( to a Tesla or possibly a German alternative), so definitely considering the Leaf now as well. The SVE would be my choice if I went for it.

    The price and the availability of rapid charging are the key things the Leaf has for me... and the Bose system in the SVE does no harm either :) I assume the 6Kw charger is well worth getting as an option ?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 338 ✭✭caster


    Forgot to mention, the scrappage deal on offer is also a big plus. The max I'd get for my car, even privately, is not much over 3K


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,938 ✭✭✭stesaurus


    GreyDad wrote: »
    It's the rear 'suicide doors' I really don't like - as a parent with kids I could never own a car with such an arrangement. I think they're a major safety concern.

    That and the price ;)

    Huh???


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,205 ✭✭✭Benny_Cake


    GreyDad wrote: »
    It's the rear 'suicide doors' I really don't like - as a parent with kids I could never own a car with such an arrangement. I think they're a major safety concern.

    That and the price ;)

    I'm pretty sure that it's only possible to open the rear doors if the front doors are open, so there should be no safety concern.

    The i3 is a beautiful car, but way too expensive for me. It is good to see a manufacturer like BMW putting the effort into producing a unique car, rather than just sticking a battery and electric motor in a random BMW and selling it in California (like Ford, Fiat etc).


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    BMW could have got 30 Kwh into the I3 chassis, there is a lot of wasted space. And they didn't get extra range over the Leaf/Zoe for all that extra and very expensive carbon fibre, it is more efficient though due to it being lighter but BMW could have done better.

    They could have made a 200 mile range 3 or 5 series also but they're not going to until they start loosing money on ICE cars or until regulations dictate they change to electric via stricter emissions etc.


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    caster wrote: »
    Had a test drive of the Leaf today, very nice to drive. Cabin is a definite step down but of course the price is much much more affordable. Overall, I'm impressed - though the i3 is much nicer to drive IMO but you pay for that privilege.

    The Leaf is very affordable for me and its almost certain that I would change in 3 yrs max ( to a Tesla or possibly a German alternative), so definitely considering the Leaf now as well. The SVE would be my choice if I went for it.

    The price and the availability of rapid charging are the key things the Leaf has for me... and the Bose system in the SVE does no harm either :) I assume the 6Kw charger is well worth getting as an option ?

    The leaf has a lower quality interior than even Nissan's current Gen cars which I find very good, with the exception of the Micra. However the Leaf is not a bad place to sit especially the SVE.

    I am not happy with the Bose stereo, it lacks baas, despite having a "sub woofer" the bass is hugely disappointing. The basic stereo in our 08 Diesel Kia Ceed estate has much better Baas.

    The Bose in the Leaf doesn't even get near sub base frequencies. My plan is to get rid of it and install a proper sub.

    The sound is clear enough and if you turn up the baas pass the half way mark it destroys the mid range. But I can't compare it to the basic stereo in the Leaf but you can always upgrade the stereo and speakers in any car with much better quality components.

    The 6.6 Kw charger without is the best option you'll have and the cold pack.

    I guarantee, when the ESB start to charge for the public chargers a lot of people will regret not having much faster charging at home and people should be allowed to have 32 amp home charge points installed too because it makes the world of difference V charging at 3.3 Kw. But getting the 6.6 charger has saved me many times having to look for a fast charger and possibly having to queue and then charge. I just get in and drive off.

    Nissan Ireland should not import the leaf with the 3.3 Kw because the most important thing about an ev is it's ability to charge as fast as possible and if the 3.3 Kw is not on the options list most people won't know about it anyway because people try save money but don't think about the value of that 6.6 Kw charger !


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭pwurple


    I guarantee, when the ESB start to charge for the public chargers a lot of people will regret not having much faster charging at home and people should be allowed to have 32 amp home charge points installed too because it makes the world of difference V charging at 3.3 Kw.
    I assume this is a safety issue... Even the 16amp is a step up from the usual 13amp in homes. 32amp is quite the leap.

    But getting the 6.6 charger has saved me many times having to look for a fast charger and possibly having to queue and then charge. I just get in and drive off.

    Nissan Ireland should not import the leaf with the 3.3 Kw because the most important thing about an ev is it's ability to charge as fast as possible and if the 3.3 Kw is not on the options list most people won't know about it anyway because people try save money but don't think about the value of that 6.6 Kw charger !
    You know, you and I disagree on this. There should absolutely be the option. I've had the car for months now, and never once have I wanted a faster charging speed. We have chargers at work and at home, so why on earth would I want the car to be another thousand euro more expensive on the shop floor, for something I never ever need or use? Everyone has a different set up. It suits you, it does not suit everyone.

    I think making the cars as affordable as possible by making optional extras "optional", is absolutely vital, for gaining some kind of traction in Ireland. There have been only 600-700 electric cars sold in this country. ESB said they would install the first 2000 chargers for free 4 years ago, and they are not even half way there on that quota.

    We're going to be left with a big white elephant of an EV system if everything is made more difficult and more expensive for buyers. It should be incentives and more options all the way.


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    pwurple wrote: »
    I assume this is a safety issue... Even the 16amp is a step up from the usual 13amp in homes. 32amp is quite the leap.

    It can be an issue if you have the car charging during the day and someone fires up the 8-9 Kw shower and the electric oven , but it's not a safety issue once it's wired up properly back to the consumer unit.
    pwurple wrote: »
    You know, you and I disagree on this. There should absolutely be the option. I've had the car for months now, and never once have I wanted a faster charging speed. We have chargers at work and at home, so why on earth would I want the car to be another thousand euro more expensive on the shop floor, for something I never ever need or use? Everyone has a different set up. It suits you, it does not suit everyone.

    You have work charging but very few people do or are ever likely to have work charging and the majority of people don't actually need it because they live close enough to work.

    If the ESB have invested in 22 Kw AC charge points then it makes most sense to have cars that can make the best use of this infrastructure as possible to minimise the amount of people looking for the far fewer DC chargers. Nissan should have the 6.6 kw charger as standard anyway.
    pwurple wrote: »
    I think making the cars as affordable as possible by making optional extras "optional", is absolutely vital, for gaining some kind of traction in Ireland. There have been only 600-700 electric cars sold in this country. ESB said they would install the first 2000 chargers for free 4 years ago, and they are not even half way there on that quota.

    I don't think the XE leaf with fast charge is that expensive when you consider the Equivalent diesel costs that or more, not having the 32 amp charger is just penny pinching. I can't see how it could possible cost 900 Euro's for an extra 3 kw.

    I think Government subsidies around the world are helping to keep EV prices artificially inflated to begin with. Electric sales won't increase until petrol and diesel cars become too expensive to run and that's unlikely to happen until car makers themselves decide it's time to change due to stricter emissions regulations but currently there is no incentive to change why ? because they make too much money from ICE tech. Why do you think the Germans don't have a 200-300 mile range EV ? because they make huge profits from ICE sales not because the technology isn't there, as Tesla have proved, it certainly is.

    Range could be better alight but I manage to do 134 Kms per day in the Leaf with a 5-10 min top up the majority of people do way less mileage than this per day yet they're convinced they need 500 miles range.
    pwurple wrote: »
    We're going to be left with a big white elephant of an EV system if everything is made more difficult and more expensive for buyers. It should be incentives and more options all the way.

    Not at all, as I said the leaf is not more expensive than a lesser equipped Golf TDI for instance, A Clio Diesel costs about 21K, Kia Ceed, Hyundai I30 etc etc they're all in or around the same price as the leaf/zoe and the EV is much, much cheaper to run and the Golf is by far the greater choice which makes no sense to me, only thing I can think of is the VW badge is what people desire most and not running costs, people are willing to spend so much on tax on an ICE and on petrol/diesel all because they think they need 500 miles range, if petrol and diesel cars were a lot less affordable then you'd see a lot more ev sales.

    Considering my mileage I would not buy a new ICE car due to the cost to fuel greatly adds to my running costs. Someone doing half my yearly mileage doesn't care about running costs and certainly not about an EV.

    Even the SV leaf is pretty well equipped, add an automatic to an ICE car and you'r eup 1500, parking heater another 1500 if it were available the Leaf is not expensive compared to the equivalent diesel so my real point I guess is that electrics don't really have to become that more affordable at all because they're already there, more choice would be welcome I know the Leaf isn't everyone's cup of tea and the I3 and E-golf are a good bit more expensive but I feel this is deliberate.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,285 ✭✭✭cros13


    Cros13 says the I3 is getting a range upgrade in 2016 ? any links ? I haven't seen any reference to this.

    I got that directly from a former colleague now working for BMW's i development team. I've been told that the new modules they've developed are drop-in replacements for the current i3 battery modules but a commercial decision has yet to be made on an upgrade offering for existing owners. BMW USA is pushing for an upgrade program but BMW Group is not yet convinced.
    GreyDad wrote: »
    It's the rear 'suicide doors' I really don't like - as a parent with kids I could never own a car with such an arrangement. I think they're a major safety concern.

    They are more safe, not less. The rear doors physically can't open without the front doors being opened.
    caster wrote: »
    I assume the 6Kw charger is well worth getting as an option ?

    Depends, it's handy to be able to get useful amounts of charge from a standard charger. But is it €900 useful to you?

    Even the SV leaf is pretty well equipped, add an automatic to an ICE car and you'r eup 1500, parking heater another 1500 if it were available the Leaf is not expensive compared to the equivalent diesel so my real point I guess is that electrics don't really have to become that more affordable at all because they're already there, more choice would be welcome I know the Leaf isn't everyone's cup of tea and the I3 and E-golf are a good bit more expensive but I feel this is deliberate.

    The Leaf SV with cold pack is what I point most people to. The XE is compromised to the point of damaging the Leaf brand. Rapid charging and a heat pump need to be standard features, the average buyer doesn't understand the impact these have on ownership.

    The i3 does a different job to the Leaf. The Leaf is a sub-urban C-category runabout that's incredibly cheap to run, pleasant to drive and practical to live with. The i3 is highly specialised and probably the best city car ever made. It's a production beta test vehicle for every next generation technology, material and production method that BMW and it's suppliers have in the pipeline. It's designed to be exhilarating to drive and if I'm honest... be noticed on the road. And it's targeted at people who are willing to pay for that, mainly wealthy urbanites (or at least two incomes no kids). Several of the i3's in Ireland were bought as part of a matching set with an i8 for the weekends.


  • Registered Users Posts: 132 ✭✭GreyDad


    Benny_Cake wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure that it's only possible to open the rear doors if the front doors are open, so there should be no safety concern.

    No, that is the point, the rear passengers are effectively trapped in the back if there is a front-end shunt that disables the driver/front passenger or damages the front doors.

    In a four-door car it should be possible for the rear passengers to get out unaided - with the i3 door arrangement they can't.

    It's also a pain in car parks ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,285 ✭✭✭cros13


    GreyDad wrote: »
    front-end shunt that disables the driver/front passenger or damages the front doors.

    CFRP frame, doesn't bend, buckle or deform like a steel or aluminium frame. There are also a number of "initiators" throughout the design to which sacrifice themselves to cause components and frame section to move only in specific directions in a accident. For example there are two initiators in the front wheel well that disconnect the axle and fold the wheels away and to the side during a front or partial front impact. There are only two situations in which the door would fail to open, one is a side impact at 25 meters per second (90km/h) or more relative speed by a 1300kg vehicle (which gives the amount of force needed to damage the CFRP frame sufficiently to reach the door structure) or at 10 meter per second where the other vehicle's bumper directly impacts the door itself. The second is if some of the plastic body panels have been shunted up the vehicle... in which case any teenager or adult can still easily force the door open. Either way, at it's worst it's better than a two door four seat vehicle.
    GreyDad wrote: »
    It's also a pain in car parks ;)

    I actually find it easier, the rear doors are short and the lack of a B-pillar means both rear and front occupants can exit in a tighter space than a standard car. Sure, it's a pain in the ass having to open the front door to let a rear passenger out but other than that and making sure people close the doors in order, no practical issues.


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    GreyDad wrote: »
    Not quite true - the Leaf *is* a ground-up EV design, it's not built on any pre-existing chassis and certainly isn't a conversion from an existing model, unlike the e-Up, e-Golf etc..

    It does use common components from the rest of the Nissan range to keep production costs down, unlike the i3 which basically invented everything from scratch, hence the price.

    The Leaf is essentially, an ice chassis adopted to take a battery and for good reason, it cost a lot more to produce an Ev back in 2008-10 when they were testing the modified Tiida.


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    caster wrote: »
    I assume the 6Kw charger is well worth getting as an option ?

    Ok, some people disagree that the 6kw charger is worth an extra 900 so put it another way.

    Go to the ecars charge point map, use the filter and select the green only chargers, the standard street charge points, then look at the blue which are the fast chargers and then think if you feel charging twice as fast from an ac charge point is worth it rather than have to always find a fast charge point which is likely to be already in use or even if not you still have to wait to charge where the ac charger could even get you to 100%.

    At least 7 times now the 6.6 Kw has meant I didn't have to find and wait at a dc charger so to me that's absolutely worth the extra what , 25 euro's per month if you're buying it outright ?

    Think if you buy the car fully and want to sell it on, do you think the 3.3 would be worth more than the 6.6 or more desirable ? not to me it wouldn't and I bet I'm not the only one.

    Ask Dexter if he thinks charging in an hour to 80% at a ac point in his Zoe is a good thing or not , my point ? better to charge as fast as possible whenever and wherever possible.


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    To add to the above, thinking about whether or not it's convenient to charge twice as fast from an ac charge point, when the ESB charge for leccy and you've to pay for parking I think people would regret not having the 6.6. Last Sunday in Naas I got from 25%-100% in 2 hrs 20 mins which I actually thought was pretty useful.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭pwurple


    So, how do irish EV drivers get hold of charge cards for other countries?

    Are they for sale? Do you need to apply in advance an order?

    What's the story.


  • Registered Users Posts: 132 ✭✭GreyDad


    I think basically the same way us foreigners get hold of ESB cards for Ireland - contact the provider and ask for them :)

    I know from UK forums that Dutch and Danish drivers have got cards from Ecotricity and others for visits to the UK and UK drivers get them for Holland and France, so it seems to be possible :)

    I've not done it myself yet, so I can't pass on first-hand experience.


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