Residency Clause

HerrScheisse

Hi,

I am interested to buy a house in the countryside but there is a permanent residency clause attached. I would never comply as I am working overseas. I find this a very limiting clause as I would really like this property, but am wondering to the extent it would cause difficulties.

Fore example, if i am on a contract and not home, will there be checks made? -If found not to be resident, what are the consequences? What if I wanted to resell at a future date?

Can this clause be revoked or revised? Has anyone any advice or experience with such clauses?

Many thanks!!!

The_Conductor

As far as I know these residency clauses have been challenged all the way to Europe- I'll have a look later and see if I can find the case I'm thinking of (which was in Wicklow btw). The greatest issue was with getting planning permission for the property at the outset- however the council had a right to purchase the property at a discount- if it were to be offered to someone who didn't meet the residency clause.

I strongly suspect that the clause has been ruled illegal- however there are loads of properties out there with such clauses (in particular counties)- but I need to find a definitive ruling to back up what I've just suggested (that its been ruled illegal).

HerrScheisse

Thanks for the reply, if you have any info on that challenge that would be much appreciated.

If it has been ruled as illegal, there are still a lot of houses out there with that clause still attached as a condition of sale.

davo10

The_Conductor wrote: »

As far as I know these residency clauses have been challenged all the way to Europe- I'll have a look later and see if I can find the case I'm thinking of (which was in Wicklow btw). The greatest issue was with getting planning permission for the property at the outset- however the council had a right to purchase the property at a discount- if it were to be offered to someone who didn't meet the residency clause.

I strongly suspect that the clause has been ruled illegal- however there are loads of properties out there with such clauses (in particular counties)- but I need to find a definitive ruling to back up what I've just suggested (that its been ruled illegal).

The Conductor, I own a site which had planning, planning was running out and I went to renew. Because I wasn't originally from the area and the development plan required "bloodline" and "permanent residency" clauses for planning. I got legal advice and was told as you said above, it wasn't legal, but the CoCo could still refuse planning. He told me that I could apply for a judicial review but I had better have very deep pockets with at least €100k in them if I want to go ahead with this. In the end I built the house rather than renewing planning. At one of the heated meetings with the planners they told me that the plan was designed to limit building for development/sale and encourage people from the locality to settle in the area where they were born.

The permanent residency clause means that the person who built it must live in it as there primary residence, it cannot be rented and as far as I know (I stand to be corrected on this) it cannot be sold on for a certain number of years.

HerrScheisse

Thanks for the insights so far. What if the house was never lived in? That it was finished to a certain degree? I assume the clause was limited to the planning permission approval in that case?

The_Conductor

HerrScheisse wrote: »

Thanks for the insights so far. What if the house was never lived in? That it was finished to a certain degree? I assume the clause was limited to the planning permission approval in that case?

I haven't found case law to support what I was saying earlier in this thread- but I did find it referred to several times in Dáil minutes, including by the Minister for the Environment, who would have had legislative charge for the area.

As far back as 2000 it was recognised as unfair in nature- and they were proposing to repeal it.

I need to work forwards- and see if I can find anywhere in law that it was actually repealed.

By the way- whether, or not, the property was lived in- was always irrelevant- it was up to the proposed purchaser to prove ties to the area (such as parents and siblings living in the area, having grown up and attended schools in the area themselves etc etc).

The grounds on which it was argued this was unfair- was that a potential seller could be disadvantaged- as only a small subset of potential purchasers could legally own the property (there was one weird exclusion- if the property was repossessed by a bank/lender- the residency rules associated with the property died out- and it could be sold openly to anyone at all).

I'll keep checking.

davo10

Op how did you find out about the residency clause? Did you solicitor flag it? If so it will be up to the solicitor to advise you of any potential complications. Residency clauses are a condition of the planning for a particular property/application, it should apply to the person who applied for planning/built the house. On the other hand, if the house is old, the residency clause could be a condition for any future application for planning, in other wards if you want to build/extend, planning would only be granted if you live there.

The_Conductor

Residency clauses in Irish planning applications- relate to all future purchasers- with the sole exception that a bank foreclosure/repossession extinguished the clause. Its been highlighted upteen times even in this forum. I'm just trying to figure whether the whole sorry mess was overturned or not- but it most certainly did not only relate to the original builder and/or the planning permission- it applied in perpetuity.

However, it can still be your main place of residence, allowing you to travel abroad for your normal work activity... Do you pay taxes in Ireland as 'ordinarily resident' or have you non resident status.?
If you are regarded as resident and this is your only property in Ireland and it's where you reside when you are in the country, I'd suggest that the authorities would be foolhardy to challenge you.

HerrScheisse

Its actually listed in the conditions for sale on the property. It is not the first time I see it in my searches for a place.

HerrScheisse

At the moment I pay taxes overseas. My only link left is my passport. This is why I want to buy a property there. When I would reside there permanently, that is the question. But it would of course be used regularly by myself until that time. Whether this constitutes residence...

Mrs OBumble

<MOD SNIP>

The theory is to prevent over development, but the watering down means that over-development is ok provided you're from around here.

athtrasna

HerrScheisse please there's no need for sensationalist comparisons. Please read our forum charter before posting again

Mod

HerrScheisse

Ok maybe I went too far alluding to it as a Heimat clause. But it is extremely upsetting to find a vacant property that you wish to bid on but cannot! It is gombeen shenanigans at their worst. I would have assumed that all citizens have the same rights within the boundaries of the State but apparently not :mad:

HerrScheisse

Thanks to all who posted advice so far. I would be interested if anyone has a link where this clause has been refuted, as I cannot find one.

athtrasna

HerrScheisse wrote: »

It is gombeen shenanigans at their worst. I would have assumed that all citizens have the same rights within the boundaries of the State but apparently not :mad:

There are other clauses around housing as well, not just this. The Local Needs requirement for planning in certain areas is also extremely restrictive but these are the rules, we're all bound by them.