The road to Mars: NASA's next 30 years

_Tombstone_

MSFC propose Aerojet Rocketdyne supply EUS engines

SLS updates

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buzz-aldrins-plan-for-a-permanent-presence-on-mars

Buzz Aldrin was the second man to walk on the Moon. Now the Nasa veteran, and trained engineer, is setting his sights on another part of our Solar System – Mars.

Wibbs

I'm not one for fawning or hero worship, but I would love to shake Buzz' hand. An amazing guy IMH. As were all the Apollo and Gemini and Mercury guys. Serious brains going on and with the male spherical organs of generation to match. A sometimes troubled man too, who had a philosophical bent and saw the big picture, which at times threatened to flatten him. Again like many of his peers. But he overcame that. He was the chap who worked out how to function in zero G on the Gemini missions, who brought in the idea of training for it in water and the astronaut expert in orbital mechanics. While Neil was about the best choice for the "first", Buzz was just as ideal to be there with him. While Neil was in some ways a little too "perfect", Buzz kinda represented the rest of us in a way. Genius yes, innovative yes, driven yes, but troubled and a little more human for me. Even with hindsight when we look back at all the Apollo guys, NASA chose well and chose a remarkably diverse bunch of guys with it.

Capt'n Midnight

_Tombstone_ wrote: »

MSFC propose Aerojet Rocketdyne supply EUS engines

SLS updates

So the SLS is using even more off the shelf flight proven components.

The RL10 is an expander cycle liquid hydrogen/liquid oxygen rocket engine typically used on upper stage applications. It was first developed by Pratt & Whitney in the late 1950s and first flown in 1963.

And still in use 53 years later. https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2016/03/cygnus-iss-arrival-ula-investigate-atlas-v-launch/


[/QUOTE]Ironically, the document cites the cost of the since-cancelled J-2X development as a reason against a new engine development alternative to the RL10, claiming it would cost around $1.2 billion if such an effort required a new test stand.

It is also claimed such a path would require six to seven years of work, adding years of delays to SLS’ schedule. Even a new in-house engine development based on the RL10 wasn’t classed as viable based on the flight heritage of the current RL10.[/QUOTE]

_Tombstone_

_Tombstone_ wrote: »

They're also planning to set fire to a Pod going up in the next Cygnus Resupply Vessel (after it's unloaded) in a test called Saffaire to see how a craft will burn in zero g so as to be better prepared if it ever happens/prevent it happening. Gonna be the "biggest man-made fire ever in space,". Vessel is going up the 22nd, probably be April for test as it takes ages to unload them things. 3 different type pods are gonna be burned over 2016.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/nasa-to-test-lighting-fire-in-space/

Largest Man-Made Fire in Space Ignited aboard orbiting Cygnus Spacecraft

Fire in Microgravity Testing

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At a panel discussion Thursday about the “Journey to Mars” at the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics’s annual Explore SPACE Forum, one question stood out among the rest.

What happens if SpaceX send humans to Mars before NASA?

Capt'n Midnight

_Tombstone_ wrote: »

What happens if SpaceX send humans to Mars before NASA?

Don't you mean, what happens if China gets there first ?


If you've read 2010 you'll know that the "space station" China is building is in reality a spacecraft.

josip

Whoever gets there first may not remember it.
http://newatlas.com/cosmic-rays-space-brain-dementia/45840/

JupiterKid

The key challenge is to actually develop a Mars-bound spacecraft - with radiation shelters and a rotating section for artificial gravity.

Until that happens, humans on Mars remain a pipe dream.

Capt'n Midnight

josip wrote: »

Whoever gets there first may not remember it.
http://newatlas.com/cosmic-rays-space-brain-dementia/45840/

http://www.u-tokyo.ac.jp/en/utokyo-research/research-news/demystifying-the-resilience-of-water-bears.html

When human cultured cells were exposed to X-rays their DNA was damaged. However, when those same human cells were given the ability to create the Dsup protein, they showed approximately half the DNA damage. Further, and most surprisingly, the cultured cells that could create Dsup were still capable of reproducing.

Capt'n Midnight

josip wrote: »

Whoever gets there first may not remember it.
http://newatlas.com/cosmic-rays-space-brain-dementia/45840/

josip

Schiaparelli has separated from the TGO on the ExoMars mission
Big day tomorrow
http://newatlas.com/exomars-commications-failure-separation/45964/

ESA Mars missions are not yet 'routine' however, hopefully things go better than Beagle.

Separation was confirmed by the Flight Director at 5:27 pm CEST (15:27 GMT), but instead of the telemetry signal returning, only the radio carrier wave came from the TGO.

Though ESA downplayed the significance of this, the TGO was within hours of a crucial engine burn that would cause it to swing around Mars. If a system failure prevented it from carrying out the maneuver, then the orbiter would follow Schiaparelli and, lacking a heat shield or parachutes, hit the Martian atmosphere at tremendous speed.



Fortunately, at 6:43 CEST (16:43 GMT) telemetry returned for reasons as unknown as those behind the blackout, with the first data recovered by ESA's 35-m (113-ft) deep-space ground station at Malargüe, Argentina.

mickmackey1

No signal yet, looks like we have to wait till 6.30.

Capt'n Midnight

At least the orbiter is orbiting. And earlier signals show the parachute was deployed.

If they had the Russian RTG then they may not have needed to save as much power.

Capt'n Midnight

https://twitter.com/ESA_EDM

ESA Operations ‏@esaoperations 11 minutes ago

Next opportunity to hear from @ESA_EDM will be the relay pass with @NASAJPL's MRO spacecraft - should come in the next hour or two #ExoMars

mickmackey1

It's looking less than 50-50 now, Mars Express really should have heard something.

Capt'n Midnight

Let's hope the Great Galactic Ghoul hasn't gobbled another spacecaft

mickmackey1

'Signal failed before landing'.... looking grim now.

Finbarr Murphy

What happens to the craft that are assumed defunct such a those that send no signal upon landing or to those that complete their objectives. Do they just stay where they are or can they be collected somehow?

I realise there are only 7 or so crafts on Mars if they haven't been collected but the fact that humans have littered our planet and are leaving litter on other planets really bugs me (even though it's in the interest of science).

josip

Mars One are sending a team of volunteers to Mars to help tidy it up if you're interested?

Ghost Train

Finbarr Murphy wrote: »

What happens to the craft that are assumed defunct such a those that send no signal upon landing or to those that complete their objectives. Do they just stay where they are or can they be collected somehow?

I realise there are only 7 or so crafts on Mars if they haven't been collected but the fact that humans have littered our planet and are leaving litter on other planets really bugs me (even though it's in the interest of science).

Not much they can do, no way to recover them. Maybe someday they'll be recovered by future missions when it's easy to get back and forth to Mars. I wouldn't really consider it litter, I wouldn't mind a 400 million dollar Mars rover left behind by Nasa in my garden. Not like a ton or two of equipment on Mars will have any devistating effect on the planet or Mars environment

josip

Contrasting emotions.
I wonder how much of the "Never mind Schiaparelli, 99% of the science is in the TGO" is now marketing spin on something that for some ESA scientists represents zero return on years of hard work.
If Schiaparelli had landed ok, would we be hearing, "Great, the lander is down, but it's only 1% of the science so let's get back to the TGO now".

It sounds very similar to, "never mind Philae, Rosetta can do way more anyway" or "Philae got 80% of its science done in the 48 hours"

Orbiters are no longer cool, they're old tech, satellites are older than most humans.
Landers on the other hand are cool, and will always help to sell a mission.

There's also the "How come NASA can do this reliably and ESA can't?" question. I guess NASA has experience of landing on stuff that ESA don't but surely almost 50 years after the moon landings ESA would have caught up with that level of expertise?

How much of the €1.x billion did the TGO and Schiaparelli cost? €300/€400 million?
Is India's Mangalyaan doing the same for €60m?

I appreciate that whet they're trying to do is tough.
If I ever write a piece of code that's bug free and can autonomously handle unknown conditions I'll post it up here.
And I can also empathise for having worked so long on something only to have it "canned" and never work.

But I'd really like ESA to have a successful lander while I'm still alive.

Maximus Alexander

It's not spin, the main point of Schiaparelli was always to test the landing ahead of the ExoMars Rover as ESA have never succeeded in landing on Mars. There were a handful of instruments on it for looking at the local area, but they actually cancelled most of its planned science payload pretty early in the project.

It'll be pretty disappointing if the landing failed though...

Maximus Alexander

Opportunity failed in its attempt to image Schiaparelli on its parachute.

josip

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Opportunity failed in its attempt to image Schiaparelli on its parachute.

Wow.
It's almost as if NASA's rovers are behaving like stereotypical American tourists from the 70s with SLRs slung around their necks snapping at anything of interest.
Having the capability to instruct your rover on another planet to take a few snaps of an incoming lander is very impressive.

Maximus Alexander

It didn't work though!! :pac:

josip

Given that it's bigger than Beagle 2 (2.4m diameter vs 1m + petal diameter) and it's known roughly in what area it landed/crashed, I assume it will be possible in the future to photograph it on the surface a la Beagle?

josip

Looks like it could have made a pretty big dent in Mars.

Telemetry data recovered from the probe during its descent indicates that its parachute was jettisoned too early.


The rockets it was supposed to use to bring itself to a standstill just above the ground also appeared to fire for too short a time.

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-37715202

Maybe Opportunity could take a spin over to have a look for the impact site the next time it's taking a break from the science stuff.

Maximus Alexander

Lost signal 50 seconds before it was due to touch down. Now I'm no spacecraft engineer, but that suggests to me it hit the ground 50 seconds too soon because it was going to fast. I wonder will the crater be big enough to photograph? :pac:

JupiterKid

Looks like at this stage Schiparelli is lost. Disappointing news.:(

ESA really need to up their game when it comes to planetary landers. Beagle 2 was forgivable as it was the first attempt, but less so with Schiparelli.