Breaking: Terror attack on French gas factory, several casualties

seanaway

Streetwalker wrote: »

Nobody blamed Israel but you have your head in the sand if you think the wests actions in general in the region aren't a huge reason why these apes are attacking.

Veiled but the reference is there....
'Some do. But they have to be given a reason to want to fight and kill and the occupation of their lands is it. I don't remember any Muslims in the 50's and 60's or even 70's just killing people because the Qu'ran said they should.

Arab/Muslim centric terrorism/revenge only started to become a phenomenon in response to Israel's brutality and occupation of Palestinians and was largely directed at Israeli/Jewish interests.

Egginacup

seanaway wrote: »

It was only a matter of time before someone blamed Israel.... read my post above....western/American conspiracy/fault/

I'm just stating the facts, pal. If you don't like what they lead you to think, if indeed you are capable of independently thinking at all, then don't trot out the goddamn tin-foil crap.

If that's your level of critical analysis then I suggest you not bother.

seanaway

Egginacup wrote: »

I don't remember any Muslims in the 50's and 60's or even 70's just killing people because the Qu'ran said they should.......

FYI..... (Quoted from:http://www.meforum.org/168/at-war-with-whom)

However, al-Banna's death did not hinder the growth of Islamism. The Muslim Brotherhood found further inspiration in the 1950s and 1960s from Sayyid Qutb (1906-1966), a radical exegete who provided Koranic justifications for attacking secular Arab leaders that called themselves believers, but who did not run their governments according to the shari'a or Islamic law. In his most famous book, Milestones, he advocated jihad, or holy war, as a means to shake off the shackles of repressive secular regimes.

"This movement . . . harnesses material power and invokes jihad for eliminating the Jahili [ignorant] order and its supporting authority, for they interfere with and prevent the efforts to reform the beliefs and ideas of humanity at large, and by dint of its resources and aberrant methods forces them to obey it and makes them bow before human lords instead of the Almighty Lord... The very purpose of this movement is to set human beings free from the yoke of human enslavement and make them serve the One and Only God."

Egginacup

seanaway wrote: »

Veiled but the reference is there....
'Some do. But they have to be given a reason to want to fight and kill and the occupation of their lands is it. I don't remember any Muslims in the 50's and 60's or even 70's just killing people because the Qu'ran said they should.

Arab/Muslim centric terrorism/revenge only started to become a phenomenon in response to Israel's brutality and occupation of Palestinians and was largely directed at Israeli/Jewish interests.

You know, that's the kind of lazy, shabby and cynical trick that low-rent hacks and bought-off reporters use to try and frame a story to fit their false agenda. You accused me of blaming Israel, you were called out on it and still you try to spin your way out of it.

That kind of spineless discourse which has become so prevalent in the last 15 years and given rise to such terms as "I misspoke" when caught telling bald-faced lies is a disturbing development.

seanaway

Egginacup wrote: »

You know, that's the kind of lazy, shabby and cynical trick that low-rent hacks and bought-off reporters use to try and frame a story to fit their false agenda. You accused me of blaming Israel, you were called out on it and still you try to spin your way out of it.

That kind of spineless discourse which has become so prevalent in the last 15 years and given rise to such terms as "I misspoke" when caught telling bald-faced lies is a disturbing development.

Jeez, chill out. I was simply pointing out that this sort of thing did in fact happen before now. It was in reply to your saying you didn't remember this happening in the 50's and 60's. There it is. It did happen.

I won't continue this as it is going off topic. This thread is about the attack in France.....

lizzyman

seanaway wrote: »

Veiled but the reference is there....
'Some do. But they have to be given a reason to want to fight and kill and the occupation of their lands is it. I don't remember any Muslims in the 50's and 60's or even 70's just killing people because the Qu'ran said they should.

Arab/Muslim centric terrorism/revenge only started to become a phenomenon in response to Israel's brutality and occupation of Palestinians and was largely directed at Israeli/Jewish interests.

I'm no fan of Israel but the rise of Islamic terrorism has a lot more to do with the spread of Wahhabism - the extreme, batshít crazy kind of Islam that originated in Saudi Arabia in the 70s. They have huge income from oil and they use those dollars to push Wahhabism and export it across the Arab world. They give millions every year to mosques all around the world to promote it.

If you go back and look at pictures of the likes of Afghanistan in the 60s/70s it used to be a beautiful country with relatively liberal values. Since the rise of Wahhabism and the likes of Al Qaeda and ISIS most of the middle east has become a war-torn shíthole.

bertson

bertson wrote: »

The crux of the issue is that the various intelligence agencies don't act on the intelligence or utilise it effectively. Like the situation in the north during the troubles you would wonder who is really pulling the strings...

"SUSPECT 'KNOWN TO INTELLIGENCE SERVICES'
The AFP news agency is reporting that the suspected attacker was already known to French intelligence services. They add that the police are investigating whether he had an accomplice."

It seems like every time something happens in France the perps were "known to authorities". If we can keep catching old ra lads training kids with guns and bombs why can't they?

Timberrrrrrrr

Sky reporting 27 dead in Tunisia now.

seanaway

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Sky reporting 27 dead in Tunisia now.

Tunisia thread moved here

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showt...?t=2057452813#

Boring username

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Yeah

Better to leave them drown right?

Men, women, kids :rolleyes:

Or, OR.....now stretch your mind out reeeeeeal wide here.....they could return the immigrants to their destination and destroy the trafficking boats.

lizzyman

seanaway wrote: »

The problem with this is the second any Western government tries to take off the kid gloves with these guys you get a bunch of losers marching in the streets screaming for Amercian and Western blood for warmongering.

If IS attack...it's an American conspiracy
If America attacks... it's an American conspiracy
If No -one does anything about these guys....it's an American conspiracy
And in the end, if we all lose our way of life and freedoms...it will be America's fault

People, of ALL creeds and cultures, need to wake up and see this a a REAL threat. Not just for democratic values, but for religious freedom for ALL religions, including the 99% of Muslims who abhor these acts the same as any other right thinking individual around the world.

These guys are using their own warped concept of Islam in the same way as Hitler used the myth of Arian superiority, Stalin used the myth of a workers' paradise (albeit minus the 72 virgins), the same way that ALL dictators took control.

Whoever you may be, of any fath or none, this is a horrible time for the world but it does present an opportunity, an opportunity for everyone to put their beliefs into practise and join everyone else in putting one thing above all else...our shared humanity.

Then and only then can these people be defeated.

Actually they're not. They're using Islam literally, exactly as it is written in the Quran. There are over 100 verses explicitly calling for the slaughter of infidels with beheading, stoning and chopping off fingers being the preferred methods.

I'm as left wing and liberal as they come but we need to get this fact through our collective skull - Islam, like all of the Abrahamic religions is NOT inherently a religion of peace.

conorhal

Deleted User wrote: »

It seems like every time something happens in France the perps were "known to authorities". If we can keep catching old ra lads training kids with guns and bombs why can't they?

Well, they do catch them, all the time. There's just not as much milage in reporting on foiled terrorist plots. As RA used to say, they only have to be lucky once, the security services have to be lucky every time.

suicide_circus

Given that's its the middle of ramadan and among many other things fighting is banned during this time, we can safely assume that the perpetrators are bad muslims

Boring username

Reports now that a Shia mosque in Kuwait city has been targeted in a bomb attack, multiple fatalities

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-33287136

the_monkey

Big Nasty wrote: »

I truly feel sorry for the Muslim community. These terrorists don't even represent Muslims and are using their religion to try and justify their own goals.

However Muslims need to stand up against these terrorists and tell them to stop committing these acts in their name.

Yes but they won't and you will have people like that vile animal "doctor" Ali Selim basically condone this crap and threaten the people of Ireland and western Europe on national television.

RTE will bow down like little lapdogs and let it happen.

The man and people like him should be taken out ... executed.

Egginacup

seanaway wrote: »

FYI..... (Quoted from:http://www.meforum.org/168/at-war-with-whom)

However, al-Banna's death did not hinder the growth of Islamism. The Muslim Brotherhood found further inspiration in the 1950s and 1960s from Sayyid Qutb (1906-1966), a radical exegete who provided Koranic justifications for attacking secular Arab leaders that called themselves believers, but who did not run their governments according to the shari'a or Islamic law. In his most famous book, Milestones, he advocated jihad, or holy war, as a means to shake off the shackles of repressive secular regimes.

"This movement . . . harnesses material power and invokes jihad for eliminating the Jahili [ignorant] order and its supporting authority, for they interfere with and prevent the efforts to reform the beliefs and ideas of humanity at large, and by dint of its resources and aberrant methods forces them to obey it and makes them bow before human lords instead of the Almighty Lord... The very purpose of this movement is to set human beings free from the yoke of human enslavement and make them serve the One and Only God."

What has a guy preaching about the overthrow of his own repressive secular government got to do with acts of international terrorism by Middle Eastern militant groups?

You've pretty much answered the question. You went off trawling for some information about "Islamic extremism in the 1960's" and you came up with that crap that advocates a jihad against one's own government. There is no campaign promoting killing people all over the world just because they are non-Mulsims.

seanaway

lizzyman wrote: »

Actually they're not. They're using Islam literally, exactly as it is written in the Quran. There are over 100 verses explicitly calling for the slaughter of infidels with beheading, stoning and chopping off fingers being the preferred methods.

I'm as left wing and liberal as they come but we need to get this fact through our collective skull - Islam, like all of the Abrahamic religions is NOT inherently a religion of peace.

I my well stand corrcted there.

However, the VAST majority of people who follow these religions do not follow the 'literal' interpretation and practise peacefully and with peace and love in mind.

That is the key. Interpretation and its practice.

Egginacup

seanaway wrote: »

Jeez, chill out. I was simply pointing out that this sort of thing did in fact happen before now. It was in reply to your saying you didn't remember this happening in the 50's and 60's. There it is. It did happen.

I won't continue this as it is going off topic. This thread is about the attack in France.....

No....you accused me of blaming Israel for this and now you're trying to say something different.

conorhal

conorhal wrote: »

Well, they do catch them, all the time. There's just not as much milage in reporting on foiled terrorist plots. As RA used to say, they only have to be lucky once, the security services have to be lucky every time.

When there are "dawn raids" in Britain it's all that bes on the news for a day or two.

lizzyman

the_monkey wrote: »

Yes but they won't and you will have people like that vile animal "doctor" Ali Selim basically condone this crap and threaten the people of Ireland and western Europe on national television.

RTE will bow down like little lapdogs and let it happen.

The man and people like him should be taken out ... executed.

We should not be executing anyone. In Europe we've moved on from that kind of medieval punishment and stooping down to the same level as terrorists would be a huge step back for us as a civilisation.

I remember Ali Selim on the Late Late Show refusing to condemn the 9/11 attacks. We should treat him the same as other countries deal with the likes of Holocaust deniers - prison terms and deportation.

Egginacup

Boring username wrote: »

Or, OR.....now stretch your mind out reeeeeeal wide here.....they could return the immigrants to their destination and destroy the trafficking boats.

And if that return meant certain death, much like the drowning?

seanaway

Egginacup wrote: »

I don't remember any Muslims in the 50's and 60's or even 70's just killing people because the Qu'ran said they should.

My last comment on this as it is off topic. The words above are your own words. You didn't say anything about 'all over the world'...you said as above...

Now let's leave it at that because clearly you won't change your mind or open it to the fact that it did happen. Islamist extremism did exist in the 50's and 60's. As to whether your other points are correct or no, is I think you will agree, more suited to other threads.

MathDebater

A few more Sunday marches for solidarity and open borders and this whole terrorism thing will blow over.

BorneTobyWilde

All 3 attacks must be connected . Who's next, there could be more to come.

Diamond Doll

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

All 3 attacks must be connected . Who's next, there could be more to come.

No ... there's no reason to think any of them are connected, until more information is available.

You sound strangely hopeful about there being more to come?

seanaway

Expert on Sky reckons the French and Tunisia attacks are connected. I'd say the Kuwait attack is more of the ongoing Shi Vs Sunni issue.

TwoShedsJackson

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

All 3 attacks must be connected . Who's next, there could be more to come.

Unsubstantiated guess, followed by some extra vague fear mongering.

lizzyman

lizzyman wrote: »

We should not be executing anyone. In Europe we've moved on from that kind of medieval punishment and stooping down to the same level as terrorists would be a huge step back for us as a civilisation.

Execution for the worst criminals following due process is completely different to terrorism against innocent civilians. That's like comparing imprisonment and kidnapping.

bb1234567

Egginacup wrote: »

I thought Turkey did.

Turkey isn't in europe..and I meant largest muslim community of any non majority muslim country.

Also two hotels are reported to have been attacked, area was popular with british tourists.

Egginacup

lizzyman wrote: »

Actually they're not. They're using Islam literally, exactly as it is written in the Quran. There are over 100 verses explicitly calling for the slaughter of infidels with beheading, stoning and chopping off fingers being the preferred methods.

I'm as left wing and liberal as they come but we need to get this fact through our collective skull - Islam, like all of the Abrahamic religions is NOT inherently a religion of peace.

Lizzy.....why are these perpetrators from the Middle East?
If Islam and the Qu'ran are to blame for these atrocities how come we don't hear a peep out of Indonesia or Malaysia and the 100's of millions of Muslims there?

And no religion is a religion of peace or a religion of war. None of them espouse either.

bb1234567

3 attacks around the world..the media will be having a field day

Jerichoholic

obezyana wrote: »

This not about religion its about dogs killing people because they can. Its gone beyond religion at this stage.

Don't compare these losers to dogs, dogs are better than humans.

Boring username

Streetwalker wrote: »

No doubt some of these clowns will get through with our open door policy.

I expect Claire Daly and Richard Boyd Barrett already have a pre-prepared script blaming the US/Israel/Capitalism when that day arrives here.

Egginacup

conorhal wrote: »

Well, they do catch them, all the time. There's just not as much milage in reporting on foiled terrorist plots. As RA used to say, they only have to be lucky once, the security services have to be lucky every time.

Really? When?
In the decade+ that the TSA and the DHS has been in existence, this bloated, overblown and useless bureaucracy hasn't foiled a single terrorist plot. And whatever plots the FBI have been reported to have foiled have been pathetic staged farces.

seanaway

IS affiliate have claimed Kuwait blast

Egginacup

seanaway wrote: »

My last comment on this as it is off topic. The words above are your own words. You didn't say anything about 'all over the world'...you said as above...

Now let's leave it at that because clearly you won't change your mind or open it to the fact that it did happen. Islamist extremism did exist in the 50's and 60's. As to whether your other points are correct or no, is I think you will agree, more suited to other threads.

No, let's not leave it at that. You accused me of blaming Israel and you're trying to sidestep that by changing the subject

JONJO THE MISER

Boring username wrote: »

I expect Claire Daly and Richard Boyd Barrett already have a pre-prepared script blaming the US/Israel/Capitalism when that day arrives here.

Sure she wants the Irish navy to bring these migrants direct to Ireland, she must be the most deluded person in the dail.

wp_rathead

the_monkey wrote: »

Yes but they won't and you will have people like that vile animal "doctor" Ali Selim basically condone this crap and threaten the people of Ireland and western Europe on national television.

RTE will bow down like little lapdogs and let it happen.

The man and people like him should be taken out ... executed.

Ffs
Ya more killings will solve it alright Monkey, you're a genius

Boring username

Egginacup wrote: »

Lizzy.....why are these perpetrators from the Middle East?
If Islam and the Qu'ran are to blame for these atrocities how come we don't hear a peep out of Indonesia or Malaysia and the 100's of millions of Muslims there?

And no religion is a religion of peace or a religion of war. None of them espouse either.

https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Jemaah_Islamiyah
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bojinka_plot
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bali_bombings


Do try to keep up now.

fr336

How likely are such attacks in Ireland? (Or even Northern Ireland)

I'm fearful for the UK today, they (well we, cos I am here) are surely much higher up the target list than France.

Egginacup

Boring username wrote: »

I expect Claire Daly and Richard Boyd Barrett already have a pre-prepared script blaming the US/Israel/Capitalism when that day arrives here.

What do you mean? In what way?

seanaway

Boring username wrote: »

https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Jemaah_Islamiyah
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bojinka_plot
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bali_bombings


Do try to keep up now.

Well pointed out. Facts are facts. These things do happen around the world and have been happening for a lot longer than some would have us believe.

It is always a danger when people try to paint out what has happened in the past and convince us what's happening now is somehow the fault of western conspiracy.

JONJO THE MISER

Powers in France says this mornings attacks could be a prelude of a bigger attack.

SILVAMAN

Egginacup wrote: »

Really? When?
In the decade+ that the TSA and the DHS has been in existence, this bloated, overblown and useless bureaucracy hasn't foiled a single terrorist plot. And whatever plots the FBI have been reported to have foiled have been pathetic staged farces.

You really have shown your true colours.

A Primal Nut

Really bad incidents in France, Tunisia and Kuwait, three countries that have been mostly peaceful. Also terrible reports coming from Kobani.

I wonder if any of this was synchronized.

crockholm

Egginacup wrote: »

Really? When?
In the decade+ that the TSA and the DHS has been in existence, this bloated, overblown and useless bureaucracy hasn't foiled a single terrorist plot. And whatever plots the FBI have been reported to have foiled have been pathetic staged farces.

To the best of my knowledge,Swedish,Austrian and German authorities have prevented attacks in their respective countries this year(maybe it was last year in Sweden),so it does happen, me aul guggo.

lizzyman

Deleted User wrote: »

Execution for the worst criminals following due process is completely different to terrorism against innocent civilians. That's like comparing imprisonment and kidnapping.

It is completely different but both are still wrong.

Firstly, execution no longer takes place in Europe (except Belarus). We have moved on from that kind of pointless retribution. We live in a liberal, tolerant Western democracy and I'll be damned if the likes of ISIS are going to drag us back down into the mire.

Secondly, to us they may seem like animals. Their friends and family may not support their actions but they are still somebody's son, daughter, husband, wife, brother, father etc. Executing these idiots would only make martyrs out of them and create sympathy and public outrage in the middle east.

Egginacup wrote: »

Lizzy.....why are these perpetrators from the Middle East?
If Islam and the Qu'ran are to blame for these atrocities how come we don't hear a peep out of Indonesia or Malaysia and the 100's of millions of Muslims there?

And no religion is a religion of peace or a religion of war. None of them espouse either.

The poster above me has answered your question about violence in Indonesia and Malaysia.

Islam does in fact espouse the spread of religion by violence. The earlier verses written when Mohammad had a very small band of followers tend to be all peaceful, butter wouldn't melt. The later ones, written after he had gathered huge support and spread his religion across the Arab peninsula is where the genocidal fun and games start.

Herb Powell

SILVAMAN wrote: »

Again, I wonder what is being preached at the Clonskeagh mosque.

Take a visit and see for yourself I'd say, I'm sure they'd be accommodating.

fr336 wrote: »

How likely are such attacks in Ireland? (Or even Northern Ireland)

I'm fearful for the UK today, they (well we, cos I am here) are surely much higher up the target list than France.

I don't think it's very likely tbh. We weren't a colonial power, and people all over the world seem to know about our struggle with the English. There's a Bobby Sands street in Tehran, ffs.

On the other hand, IS and all the other extremist groups seem to operate beyond logic, and if the videos they're sending out from Iraq and Syria are to be believed, they show little restraint in their brutality.

seanaway

Herb Powell wrote: »

Take a visit and see for yourself I'd say, I'm sure they'd be accommodating.


I don't think it's very likely tbh. We weren't a colonial power, and people all over the world seem to know about our struggle with the English. There's a Bobby Sands street in Tehran, ffs.

On the other hand, IS and all the other extremist groups seem to operate beyond logic, and if the videos they're sending out from Iraq and Syria are to be believed, they show little restraint in their brutality.

I would say the Bobby Sands street was named les for sympathy with Ireland and more as a snub to Britain. Don't think I'd like to be 'honoured' by those guys. Insulted I'd be if tehy named a street after me.

Herb Powell

seanaway wrote: »

I would say the Bobby Sands street was named les for sympathy with Ireland and more as a snub to Britain. Don't think I'd like to be 'honoured' by those guys. Insulted I'd be if tehy named a street after me.

I wasn't implying it was necessarily cause for celebration. You can feel how you like about it. All I meant was that I think, to the best of my knowledge, Ireland would be less of a target than other EU countries. As I said, I could be totally wrong, and the new lads might say we're western enough with enough ties to the US and the UK anyway.