PC Gaming Forum [2015 Review & Update]

RopeDrink

Dear PCG'ers,

As you may or may not know, there has been quite a lot of discussion regarding the future of PCG given it unexpectedly broke its own boundaries and blossomed into something bigger than was originally intended. This isn't considered a bad thing by any means, yet our allowance of general gaming discussions here on PCG (when we already have a general gaming discussion board) required some review after being left unchecked for quite some time.

We're pleased to announce that PCG will be allowed to continue on the path it is going, though out of respect for our sister-forums and gaming areas here on boards, there have been some minor changes you should be aware of.

The Charter has been updated - and a new thread regarding "Non-PC Specifics" has been created. Considering PCG houses many 'general discussions' despite technically belonging on the Gaming (General) board, we encourage you to consider all options before creating a thread. While we won't be clamping down on general game topics in PCG (provided they are in a PC light to begin with), we will definitely be more vigilant when it comes to other off-topic threads.

Outside of that - thank you to everyone who has taken part in PCG since its creation. You've made it blossom beyond expectations and we hope you're enjoying the forum! If you have any public feedback regarding PCG in general, feel free to post your thoughts here

Gbear

RopeDrink wrote: »

For now, much like the General Gaming board, PCG will no longer house any discussions, thread titles or implications of 'Master Race', even in jest. We are not in competition here, so be mindful.

Sorry, but just to clarify, is this a piss-take?

Seriously.

Sure, it can be well annoying on unrelated forums where they mightn't be amenable to the joke and all that, but on a PC-centric board, who on earth is going to care?

If someone's going off on some rant about how they hate consoles and all that, it's probably off-topic anyway, and there's already Boards-wide policy in place for dealing with that.

If you're getting offended by sarcastic naming conventions on a board you don't post on, you seriously need to have a word with yourself.

Sonics2k

Got to agree with GBear here.

The whole PCMR thing is mostly all in jest no? Sure we should go ahead and strike those who are being jerks, derailing and just plain trolling console gamers.

It's madness to strike people here in the PC forum itself for making jokes and comments about PC being better (it is) than console, and I'm saying that as a PC and console gamer.

I set up the Screenshots of Glory! thread aimed at PC gamers and is basically all about PC gamers showing off the vastly superior quality of games available to us.

dreamers75

Maybe post up what we can say rather than what we cant.

I need to get offended about more **** so i can make things change......

Mantra15

This forum has gone to the dogs. There's just far too much nannyism and oversight now to the point where constructive debate and critique is stifled for fear of upsetting someone on the internetz (serious business). God forbid someone reads that a complete stranger disliked their favourite video game, walks outside and throws themselves off a bridge....I know it's not the ordinary mods fault because this crap is being set from above but it's clear no discussion towards it's merits are being brought up. For those real gamers out there that want to discuss positive issues AS WELL AS, MOST IMPORTANTLY, THE NEGATIVES...then I'll see you on Neogaf or Reddit.

Robert ninja

Mantra15 wrote: »

This forum has gone to the dogs. There's just far too much nannyism and oversight now to the point where constructive debate and critique is stifled for fear of upsetting someone on the internetz (serious business). God forbid someone reads that a complete stranger disliked their favourite video game, walks outside and throws themselves off a bridge....I know it's not the ordinary mods fault because this crap is being set from above but it's clear no discussion towards it's merits are being brought up.

Mantra15 wrote: »

For those real gamers out there that want to discuss positive issues AS WELL AS, MOST IMPORTANTLY, THE NEGATIVES...then I'll see you on Neogaf or Reddit.

Anyway this whole forum's smelling of butthurt and over-moderation.

Gbear

RopeDrink wrote: »

The fact people are getting up in arms over it should indicate that it can easily be taken equally as serious in the other direction. Those who visit shouldn't have to see PCMR/CMR or any other titles or comments on either PCG, G(G), or any console forum - it should be applied everywhere, hence it is not an attack on PCG. You may not think it (and I certainly didn't, personally) but it 'can' offend and it 'can' derail threads or cause less traffic - and so it is going to stop, seeing as such attitudes are also held in the forum of which should have rightly housed a lot of our threads until we reaffirmed PCG's position.

There's no "getting up in arms over".

You're just wrong.

Stop being wrong and then nobody will want to tell you you're being wrong.

Those who visit shouldn't have to see PCMR/CMR or any other titles or comments on either PCG,

Why?

it should be applied everywhere,

Why?

but it 'can' offend and it 'can' derail threads or cause less traffic

In some contexts? Yes.
Like in a forum for a different gaming platform.

Here? No. Not having that. Even your choice of words is strange - "offend" rather than "irritate". Going OT is irritating, not offensive.

Like I said, going off topic is already against the rules.
Saying, "it's against the rules to go off topic and it's also against the rules to go off topic about a specific thing" doesn't make any sense. It's redundant.

It also doesn't follow from that that the way they've gone off topic ought to be banned.
Talking about cheese burgers can drag a thread off topic, but their mention isn't being banned.

The biggest thing about this is that it's just weird.
My impression is that people like light-touch moderation in general and if there's no particular problem, then wading in and throwing new rules around leaves a bad taste.

As far as I can tell we've a healthy community going here. What is the specific need for change? Tweaking the prevalence of multi-platform threads that oughtn't have a PC-specific thread? Yeah, maybe. I haven't noticed it as a problem but I would imagine that it's possible.

Any platform specific forum is going to be a bit insular but that's neither a strength or a weakness. It merely is.

Mantra15

Robert ninja wrote: »

Anyway this whole forum's smelling of butthurt and over-moderation.

I couldn't agree more. I had an account here from 2006 to 2011 and it was a vibrant community. The person handing down these policies are killing their own website. Let's look at an issue I have in light of recent events. Regarding Batman: Arkham Knight it was incredibly convenient to push all the PC users talk to one sub-forum and out of the eyes of the masses seeing as it ran like complete ass. Now I can understand, to a certain extent, that the technicality of PC may not specifically have a place in a thread about a piece of software but when posts along the lines of "this game is terrible on PC" (with no technical language being used) are being deleted or moved here....fishy to say the least. There's just no room whatsoever for negativity...all sunshine and lollipops...you'd actually think boards.ie computer games section was a mouthpiece for the industry. Even industry paid-off PR sites like IGN have greater freedom of speech at this point. I wonder if the PS4 version was total trash...would it be moved to the PS4 only forum?

And I can't understand why constructive criticism is not allowed. So long as the extent of a posters comment is not "lol ps4 sucks ass" then I can't see why a reasonably thought out argument towards pretty much anything is unacceptable. For example why is "I believe PS4 has a greater benefit of A B and C than so and so because of D E and F" deleted? Laughable.

Mantra15

Gbear wrote: »

There's no "getting up in arms over".

You're just wrong.

Stop being wrong and then nobody will want to tell you you're being wrong.



Why?



Why?



In some contexts? Yes.
Like in a forum for a different gaming platform.

Here? No. Not having that. Even your choice of words is strange - "offend" rather than "irritate". Going OT is irritating, not offensive.

Like I said, going off topic is already against the rules.
Saying, "it's against the rules to go off topic and it's also against the rules to go off topic about a specific thing" doesn't make any sense. It's redundant.

It also doesn't follow from that that the way they've gone off topic ought to be banned.
Talking about cheese burgers can drag a thread off topic, but their mention isn't being banned.

The biggest thing about this is that it's just weird.
My impression is that people like light-touch moderation in general and if there's no particular problem, then wading in and throwing new rules around leaves a bad taste.

As far as I can tell we've a healthy community going here. What is the specific need for change? Tweaking the prevalence of multi-platform threads that oughtn't have a PC-specific thread? Yeah, maybe. I haven't noticed it as a problem but I would imagine that it's possible.

Any platform specific forum is going to be a bit insular but that's neither a strength or a weakness. It merely is.

You're going to get an infraction for this. Sad.

Anyway, it's as clear as day that there is a complete chasm between what the users (the lifeblood) of this whole forum expects and what the mods want as seen in that the only people thanking the OP's post are mods and the only people thanking your post are actual normal users.

At the end of the day the only people left to discuss video games will be the mods if this continues.

jumbobreakfast

PCMR is a funny idea but turning it from a joke into an acceptable label is disrespectful. What if Rugby Union fans started calling themselves the Rugby Master Race and calling Rugby League fans peasants? Would the mods on the Rugby Union Forum allow threads with RMR in the title? It might be okay banter in a private setting but it's not suited to a public forum where you are trying to include as many people as possible in respectful discussion.

Myrddin

Mantra15 wrote: »

Regarding Batman: Arkham Knight it was incredibly convenient to push all the PC users talk to one sub-forum and out of the eyes of the masses seeing as it ran like complete ass. Now I can understand, to a certain extent, that the technicality of PC may not specifically have a place in a thread about a piece of software but when posts along the lines of "this game is terrible on PC" (with no technical language being used) are being deleted or moved here....fishy to say the least.

Yes because Boards.ie developed the game :rolleyes: As you likely well know, the reason the Arkham Knight thread was moved here was because vast swathes of the discussion were not about, you guessed it, Arkham Knight. It contained tons of technical discussion, problems, users helping each other, advising each other & communicating with each other with specific regard to pc only problems with the game. Rather than subject the people who want to discuss the game itself to have to trawl through all that, the thread was moved here to contain the tech side of it, letting those who want to discuss, yknow, the actual game itself, to do so in the Gaming (General) forum.

Rather than what's depicted above, pc gamers have been given their own corner of boards now to discuss things among like minded people, just like Playstation, Nintendo, & Xbox users have had for years. Everyone is free to use the general forum too of course, the but are now not limited to it anymore.

Robert ninja

The irony about this whole situation is that the only reason PCMR joke/meme/whatever is so popular now of days is because reddit's /r/gaming general gaming subforum's moderators started to clamp down on PC gaming talk, discouraged it and generally favored console discussion. This blew up when a picture someone posted of their gaming PC was taken down because it could've just been used for taxes. This led to another 'turbotax' joke/meme.

Weirdly enough 'ps4/xbox/wiiu' masterrace jokes are used now but more often than not are used unironically which is just hilarious.

What happened after that was the entire /r/gaming forum being flooded with pictures of PC towers and criticism about moderation and console favoritism. In the end, everyone just left the forum and the place became a junkyard of meme pictures, article reposts and fluff posts with no depth. Incidentally the PCMR subforum on reddit (yes it seems it exists) shot up in popularity hugely to the point of many of its posts hitting the front page of reddit where things such as worldwide news often hit thanks to reddit's (crappy) voting system

Mantra15

RopeDrink wrote: »

Then your issue is not with PCG, it's with G(G) which moved it.

Moving PC chat to a PC forum is standard practice. G(G) would definitely like to avoid platform conflicts as it's a general board. Very deliberate comments, such as the one you highlight, doesn't belong in a forum designed to have non-platform specific chit-chat about 'the game itself'.

This same reasoning was used to reverse-counter the Master Race comment. We're on a PC board, so it shouldn't be required. You can be as negative as you like - as you're with those who understand it, on a board that is designed to discuss gaming on that particular platform. Ranting about how X game performs like Y because of Z platform in the General board isn't the place, whereas it is at home here.

It very much is - but where (and how) it is posted is key.

Constructive criticism is perfectly fine - as I'm sure any wholesome discussion about platforms can be if done appropriately. Either way, this seems more aimed at G(G) than PCG.

I find this post disingenuous as the evidence suggests that criticism is frowned upon and discouraged. Browsing the General board and in particular the Batman: Arkham Knight thread I see several specifically Xbox and Playstation related posts and yet if you were to descend from space to look through it you'd be hard pressed to believe the PC platform even existed. I couldn't give a damn either way but what I object to is the blatant censorship that's occurring here and the favouritism towards consoles.

I'll be first to raise my hand and say that I don't have a two thousand euro monster of a machine but what I do have holds it's own. Having said that I'm not down on anyone that displays such passion for their hobby that increased FOV is where they get their kicks. Indeed, if you're willing to hand over that kind of dough to begin with then it follows that you should be receiving a better experience than I am. In any event this is NOT an opinion - the superior experience of a PC resides in the factual category right alongside the statement that tomorrow is Sunday. So why would people get their panties in a twist with a "PCMR" statement? I don't own an Xbox, Nintendo or Playstation kit and haven't for some time so you can understand that I genuinely see visiting those sub-forums about as attractive as having a Rottweiler free reign on my left bollock. Those specific areas are for the owners of said platforms and this is ours so why on Earth would anyone be visiting PC Gaming if they didn't even own a PC let alone be getting offended by what they read in here?

It's laughable.

degrassinoel

I have to agree about 'pcmr', it is as much a jab at oneself as it is a jab at anyone else, especially when it's used in a pc gaming forum.
I realise that not everyone sees it that way, so i'm willing to refrain for their sake but i mean ffs, if something like that irritates you in an industry with far far more annoying crap going on in it you might just have too much time on your hands.

Sonics2k

RopeDrink wrote: »

The fact people are getting up in arms over it should indicate that it can easily be taken equally as serious in the other direction. Those who visit shouldn't have to see PCMR/CMR or any other titles or comments on either PCG, G(G), or any console forum - it should be applied everywhere, hence it is not an attack on PCG. You may not think it (and I certainly didn't, personally) but it 'can' offend and it 'can' derail threads or cause less traffic - and so it is going to stop, seeing as such attitudes are also held in the forum of which should have rightly housed a lot of our threads until we reaffirmed PCG's position.

I don't think anyone is getting up in arms here Ropedrink.
If anything, people are baffled by what seems to be a very silly new rules. Like I said before, the whole PCMR thing is pretty much a joke. It's a gentle jab taking the mickey out of consoles, but also PC gamers too.

It's weird to ban use of PCMR from the PC forum, when it's more than to be expected in a PC forum.

By all means, strike those who are being jerks, trolling and causing hassle on the Gaming forum itself, whether its about PC's being better or PS4/Xbone.

Honestly, anyone who gets offended by the term Glorious PC Master Race on a forum board dedicated to PC gaming really needs to have a good think about themselves. It's not even used that much here really.

degrassinoel

I dunno, the very nature of what you'd see as a pc gamer is someone who's competitive by nature, using the PCMR term is as i've always seen, a trait of that competitiveness. if you take it to the extreme view "oh wait it's a nazi reference" remove delete report kill it with fire, you're really taking it too seriously and completely out of context. That's my own personal opinion of it, as i said, others see it differently and i dont mind refraining but the question of censorship comes into light with it's removal too.. fine it's a dumb joke and dumb jokes like these have a long shelflife but they die eventually, i'm reasonably sure that if the patrons on the PCG forum were encouraged not to use the term, they would, rather than being told what they cannot post about.


My two cents, that's all

Lukker-

Boards is gone way too PC.

Sonics2k

I guess I'm really more just baffled at the idea of banning or restricting the use of it in the PC forum itself. I totally understand it in other forums, and I'd expect a strike against someone going to the Xbox forum and going on about Playstations being better.

I guess the idea of censoring is what really hits a nerve with people here, rather than the particular terms removal itself.

Mantra15

RopeDrink wrote: »

It's a feedback thread - all 2cents welcome

While I felt the same, it also harps back to the issue we had before regarding lolcats or yorema. It's silly fare that is equally as silly if taken seriously but they became so norm and publicly acceptable that it was thrown around casually and started to grate on literally everyone.

Not saying the same could or would happen with PCMR related stuff - but on the whole, the Gaming Category is vast and should be pretty open armed. Some people did express offense and some of them can (and do) visit both forums in question - and those were the verbal knowns. There are many, many, quiet unknowns to take into consideration, too. Keeping the PCMR out of titles is a small but welcoming step - the rest can be monitored case by case.

Wait, so somebody came in here.....didn't like the term PCMR and reported it?

That equates me walking into my neighbours house right now and reporting them because I don't approve of the discussion they're having.....

johnny_ultimate

We laid out the reasons we're imposing a similar ban on this in Gaming (General) here. Sadly, the way we see it used there is most often in a trolling manner, and that tends to lead threads astray and kick off the same old tired, go nowhere format wars. So we're just saying any of that sort of nonsense, be it from PC or console gamers, is not welcome, and frankly I have no doubt it will lead to a friendlier forum for everyone, no question whatsoever. And we've had very little disagreement on the issue from users there (or here, it seems)

I definitely think the case is different for PC Gaming forum, though, so I'd have total trust in RopeDrink and Kiith to take all of your feedback on board and come up with something that is right for this forum I think the phrase's use will inevitably differ in the different contexts of this forum and over yonder.

Just to give my own personal opinion on the issue: It's only in the last few months I've gotten a proper gaming PC, and it is a beast. But while I certainly now find myself with more of an interest in PC-specific forums, here and elsewhere, I have to confess the attitudes one encounters often turn me right off. And, fair or not, I think the whole PCMR gag has become a sort of shorthand for a lot of that. I don't find it offensive or anything like that (although do tend to avoid likening myself to the Nazis wherever possible ): I just find it tired and irritating. While undoubtedly it's often used tongue in cheek, I tend to find there's almost always some degree of earnestness in there as well, and it can be tricky to separate the two. It creates a sort of elitism, accidental or otherwise, that can IMO be a barrier to entry. I totally see the argument that it's mostly totally harmless too, and obviously all communities can and should have their own in-jokes. But above all else I think it just annoys me the same way any joke I heard dozens of times a week would start to grate pretty quickly. It's less the joke that I'd take umbrage with, and more its incessant overuse.

Anyway, that's just my 2c on the subject as somebody who plays a lot of games on PC and consoles alike. Again, total faith in the mods here in taking both sides of the argument on board and coming up with a reasoned solution.

dreamers75

Forcing everyone into the games forum to increase traffic was a stupid idea, i assume this is the moderators realising this was a stupid idea about 2 years later. And now we are back to version specific forums but no more PCMR trolling.

I dont think its hard to moderate a forum and dont see why mods should force stupid crap onto the users of the forum, has anyone actually been banned from PC gaming forum? Have never seen any ****e in any of the threads im interested in.

Seems to be a poorly thought out pro active to an issue that doesnt exist.

Retr0gamer

dreamers75 wrote: »

Forcing everyone into the games forum to increase traffic was a stupid idea, i assume this is the moderators realising this was a stupid idea about 2 years later.

It wasn't to increase traffic it was to increase the quality of discussion on games which after the sub forums were created took a nose dive. It's imo the best thing we've done for the forums. And there's been plenty of fanboy bull****, go look at the cesspit of the PS4 vs Xbox thread that had to be put down to save us all from idiocy.

dreamers75

Retr0gamer wrote: »

It wasn't to increase traffic it was to increase the quality of discussion on games which after the sub forums were created took a nose dive. It's imo the best thing we've done for the forums. And there's been plenty of fanboy bull****, go look at the cesspit of the PS4 vs Xbox thread that had to be put down to save us all from idiocy.

It was to increase the quantity of discussion, the forum was dead before the change.

How is the quality better if this **** is being enforced?

I notice my picture was removed....heh.

Calhoun

Gbear wrote: »

Sorry, but just to clarify, is this a piss-take?

Seriously.

Sure, it can be well annoying on unrelated forums where they mightn't be amenable to the joke and all that, but on a PC-centric board, who on earth is going to care?

If someone's going off on some rant about how they hate consoles and all that, it's probably off-topic anyway, and there's already Boards-wide policy in place for dealing with that.

If you're getting offended by sarcastic naming conventions on a board you don't post on, you seriously need to have a word with yourself.

Agree with this seem ott, especially as I consider the gaming general forum as console domain and have for some time and this as a pc gamer section.

Similar type of tactic used in radio to calm stuff down when stuff was bad but to apply such a heavy hand here is bloody ridiculous, we must be a terrible bunch.

As someone who has most current and last generation of consoles and hand helds , I am at a loss how the argument of barrier to entry can be put across. Really are we so overly sensitive now ?

The_Valeyard

I'm really confused as to how this will work

FAILSAFE 00

This is very OTT.

I always found the PCMR stuff very humorous and it has really become synonymous with PC fans.

Forget the term, that's not important. What is important is how it's utilised. (e.g) someone who posts in a specific console forum taking swipes at console gamers using PCMR images, basically trolling them. That's an issue but restricting the term from PC Gaming doesn't make much sense. It's solving a problem that just doesn't exist.

It's a bit too sensitive, politically correct, overreaction, etc, etc.

Falthyron

Can we ban the word "fanboy" too? It really tickles me up the wrong way when I criticise or praise one console over another in relation to a game and get called a "fanboy". I find this offensive and ignorant as one should be able to give an opinion without fear of being labelled a "fanboy". If you are censoring Master Race, then "fanboy" should also be censored.

Can we PC gamers refer to ourselves in a negative way? Should the PC Beggars or PC Can't Afford Consoles Race emerge will this be allowed? Of course it will all be said in a satirical and harmless way. For example: "I just paid 400 euro for a new graphics card when I could have just bought an entire console, I am such an idiot, lol." Would this offend someone? Or "I can't believe the PC version of Arkham Knight is so awful. I can get 1080p, but I can't boot the game up. I should have just bought a PS4".

Can I say "Praise GabeN, long may he reign upon his noble throne that doth cushion his ample buttocks"?

There are ways and means of invoking the spirit of the great running joke 'Master Race' without using those words. In fact, and this is truly the saddest part of all, those who enjoy the joke would be quick to embrace a self deprecating alternative, but we all would know what it means except for those who don't appreciate satire.

Long live the PC Gaming Serfs, for we work the land and know our place on Boards.ie

FAILSAFE 00

Falthyron wrote: »

Can we ban the word "fanboy" too? It really tickles me up the wrong way when I criticise or praise one console over another in relation to a game and get called a "fanboy". I find this offensive and ignorant as one should be able to give an opinion without fear of being labelled a "fanboy". If you are censoring Master Race, then "fanboy" should also be censored.

Can we PC gamers refer to ourselves in a negative way? Should the PC Beggars or PC Can't Afford Consoles Race emerge will this be allowed? Of course it will all be said in a satirical and harmless way. For example: "I just paid 400 euro for a new graphics card when I could have just bought an entire console, I am such an idiot, lol." Would this offend someone? Or "I can't believe the PC version of Arkham Knight is so awful. I can get 1080p, but I can't boot the game up. I should have just bought a PS4".

SPOT ON.

Get rid of the term "Fanboy".

It seems when people can't think of an adequate response to your post they come with with the ole "Fanboy" response.
"Ohh, your just a fanboy" and then my personal favourite is "Anyone that says otherwise is just a fanboy"

Posters might actually have to think before responding without the fanboy card to play.

Myrddin

For the record, and to quote from Johnny_Ultimate's post in Gaming (General) where the 'fanboy' thing is way more disruptive than it is here:

Johnny_Ultimate wrote:

The exact mechanisms are still being worked out, but suffice to say 'fanboy' nonsense of either a console or PC sort will not be welcome here anymore. When the exact rules are worked out we will let you know, but fair to say they'll be deleted at a bare minimum

So, as everyone can see, this is a two way street.

Calhoun

Myrddin wrote: »

For the record, and to quote from Johnny_Ultimate's post in Gaming (General) where the 'fanboy' thing is way more disruptive than it is here:



So, as everyone can see, this is a two way street.

I still don't like the negative connotation the likes of Johnny has taken onto himself to associate with us pc gamers.

I didn't even think the pcmr was a bit thing on the forum I don't see allot of evidence of it and for it to be used, in fact I'd say it's old and quite boring at this stage.

The thought however that a harmless joke is this big barrier to entry to this community just riles me.

Falthyron

Maybe I am a bit out of touch, but would it be too difficult to simply vote on the matter?

"Do you find the phrase 'PC Master Race' offensive and would you, therefore, support censoring it?"

Leave the vote open for a week and let democracy rule.

Can we also consider censoring debates on subscription models for MMOs? Too many times threads go round and round and round over the same ground: p2w versus f2p versus B2P versus subscriptions. People should just be able to enjoy their games without being told a subscription model is better than f2p, or how f2p is the death knell of a game. I find this offensive as I am sure many other MMO players do.

Myrddin

Calhoun wrote: »

I still don't like the negative connotation the likes of Johnny has taken onto himself to associate with us pc gamers.

Not sure what you mean, the mods of the Gaming (General) forum AND this PC Gaming forum (along with various other mods) have had this discussion, and have been having it for a few weeks. They're all on the same page, & what you see now is everyone being given a fair slice of the pie.

I didn't even think the pcmr was a bit thing on the forum I don't see allot of evidence of it and for it to be used, in fact I'd say it's old and quite boring at this stage.

It's a bigger thing in the general forum from what I can see, because it's a card that when played, just triggers an endless loop of arguing with no resolve likely to happen. Here, no, not so much...and I'd agree, it's largely used in jest often introspectively too. However, not only is it tired & boring as you say, but it is causing offence out there at the same time too for some. I've seen posts where users have mentioned it puts them off even coming to this forum, and that's not good...we want this place to grow and become a healthy vibrant forum (which it is doing), not to alienate people or make people think less of pc gamers.

Calhoun

Myrddin wrote: »

Not sure what you mean, the mods of the Gaming (General) forum AND this PC Gaming forum (along with various other mods) have had this discussion, and have been having it for a few weeks. They're all on the same page, & what you see now is everyone being given a fair slice of the pie.



It's a bigger thing in the general forum from what I can see, because it's a card that when played, just triggers an endless loop of arguing with no resolve likely to happen. Here, no, not so much...and I'd agree, it's largely used in jest often introspectively too. However, not only is it tired & boring as you say, but it is causing offence out there at the same time too for some. I've seen posts where users have mentioned it puts them off even coming to this forum, and that's not good...we want this place to grow and become a healthy vibrant forum (which it is doing), not to alienate people or make people think less of pc gamers.

What i mean is from Johnnys post, it would now seem to be a big negative thing and something we elitest are using as a barrier to entry to this forum.

I don't think anyone is arguing that it should not be in place in the general forum, the problem i have is with the wording on it for this forum when its used as a bit of a joke.

Do we have much evidence of this? as i haven't personally seen much on this and i would browse these forums quite regularly. Maybe i am wrong it this but have any of the other regulars seen this?

Personally how this was put across i dont like at all, to me as an outsider to the mod team it looks like Ropedrink is taking the same heavy hand he took in the radio forums which had so much of a problem it spilled over into the main site feedback. I honestly didnt think we were that bad and thought this was one of the more friendlier places on the site.

Calhoun

RopeDrink wrote: »

If only you knew :pac:

Indeed you see i dont, all i see is what you post publically in the forum or not.

Calhoun

RopeDrink wrote: »

It wasn't, hence the change is trivial. In time, people will forget the discussion ever happened - because nobody was using it anyway outside of the occasional forum title. The only impact of note is taking place 'in this thread right now'.

MR, fanboy and other such terms don't actually 'contribute' anything at all.

The impact for me wasn't the change in practice but the associated negative connection to the community.

Rather than explaining that some folks had been complaining and it was putting them off coming here ( i havent seen evidence of this) its just stuck into the charter.

Falthyron

MR, fanboy and other such terms don't actually 'contribute' anything at all.

There are a lot of things used in threads on these forums that don't contribute, but you don't censor those. Master Race is a joke. A joke about the PC platform. It was born out of satire, not malice. If you are offended by it, you don't get it. Should we censor every joke someone doesn't understand?

Can we call ourselves the PC Gaming Serfs?

Myrddin

Calhoun wrote: »

it looks like Ropedrink is taking the same heavy hand he took in the radio forums

I'll say this, & I'll say no more - RopeDrink has had nothing but the best interests at heart for this forum, when discussing any changes behind closed doors. He has continually argued for this forum to be allowed to grow, and is heavily against anything that might curtail the growth of this forum. I can safely say, without RopeDrink, this forum would be a very different place, & I suspect one with which nobody here would want to be part of (from reading all your feedback over the years).

This PCMR thing is not a heavy handed approach, if it were, it'd be in the charter that the phrase itself was banned. It's not. It's for thread titles only, the reasoning for which has been explained by RopeDrink a few times now. A heavy handed approach this, is not. It's a minor, trivial change that makes no difference to most, and a positive difference to a few.

Falthyron

Myrddin wrote: »

I'll say this, & I'll say no more - RopeDrink has had nothing but the best interests at heart for this forum, when discussing any changes behind closed doors. He has continually argued for this forum to be allowed to grow, and is heavily against anything that might curtail the growth of this forum. I can safely say, without RopeDrink, this forum would be a very different place, & I suspect one with which nobody here would want to be part of (from reading all your feedback over the years).

This PCMR thing is not a heavy handed approach, if it were, it'd be in the charter that the phrase itself was banned. It's not. It's for thread titles only, the reasoning for which has been explained by RopeDrink a few times now. A heavy handed approach this, is not. It's a minor, trivial change that makes no difference to most, and a positive difference to a few.

Can I create a thread which has PC Gaming Serfs as part of the title? Or some variation of a satirical name to represent the interests of those who like to discuss serfdom in relation to the PC platform?

Lukker-

Honestly I can see why it might be seen as trolling in threads in General Gaming and that's fair enough.

I can see no reason why the term be banned here. If it's not used in an inflammatory or trolling manner what harm?

I don't even use any of the terms my self but the PCMR itself is a fairly prominent PC community and I don't see why any of the terms should be banned, just strikes me as needless censorship.

Calhoun

Myrddin wrote: »

I'll say this, & I'll say no more - RopeDrink has had nothing but the best interests at heart for this forum, when discussing any changes behind closed doors. He has continually argued for this forum to be allowed to grow, and is heavily against anything that might curtail the growth of this forum. I can safely say, without RopeDrink, this forum would be a very different place, & I suspect one with which nobody here would want to be part of (from reading all your feedback over the years).

This PCMR thing is not a heavy handed approach, if it were, it'd be in the charter that the phrase itself was banned. It's not. It's for thread titles only, the reasoning for which has been explained by RopeDrink a few times now. A heavy handed approach this, is not. It's a minor, trivial change that makes no difference to most, and a positive difference to a few.

I am out at the moment so can't respond to all atm. Look I remember the before cs source when the community was young and rope use to run around with a shotgun, so I have no doubt he has good intentions.

As I said I don't like the delivery of it, it wasn't just his posts but the supporting posts from some of the gaming mod team which would suggest we are a horrible little community looking to exclude , when we are having a bit of fun.

Sometimes I think the reason it's done is because as far as pc gaming went for a long time it was crapped on by the development community. There is a general buzz and excitement when some games are announced for the platform (GTAV ect).

Myrddin

Calhoun wrote: »

As I said I don't like the delivery of it, it wasn't just his posts but the supporting posts from some of the gaming mod team which would suggest we are a horrible little community looking to exclude , when we are having a bit of fun.

Before I bow out, I'd just like to respond to this point - if that's the way it came across, I'll apologise on behalf of everyone involved, it certainly wasn't intended to come across as such. Rather conversely, this is about giving PC gamers their own little corner of the games category...something which has been omitted for year after year, until now. The only segregation going on here, is for technical chat specific to pc's. This goes for consoles too, if someone is having an issue running a game and has an Xbox related problem, that thread will be moved to the Xbox forum for example.

PC gamers are wholly welcome to use both this forum and the gaming general forum for the gaming fix. All that's being asked, is that if the general forum is being used, to please keep others who don't use pc's in mind when discussing technical issue with games. For that type of thing, just use this forum - at the end of the day, you're more likely to get answers here among such like minded people anyway. That's all there is to it, certainly, no anti-pc bias was meant to come across.

johnny_ultimate

Calhoun wrote: »

I still don't like the negative connotation the likes of Johnny has taken onto himself to associate with us pc gamers.

To be fair, my particularly negative response to it has probably built up elsewhere. Places like Reddit's PC section, which I have stumbled into from time to time when looking for some information, are absolute cesspits for it and can be incredibly hostile. I've seen a few examples of it in the games cat here over the years (I'd still stand by that all the forums in this category are among the friendliest gaming forums I've ever encountered), but safe to say nowhere near on the level as one would see elsewhere online. Still, as a result of all that when I see the likes of PCMR used in thread titles here, that makes me involuntarily cringe nonetheless - just don't see the need for it whatsoever, and certainly well past the point of seeing the humour in it. That's just my personal response to it, fully understand others don't see it that way. Also don't want to tar everybody with the same brush either - I definitely don't think everyone who uses the odd PCMR jokes go around comment sections waging flame wars on 'console peasants'.

And, just to clarify, I've seen seriously obnoxious carry on from console users too (still wake up in cold sweats thinking about the PS4 vs Xbox One thread - some of the carry on there made a few PCMR jokes seem like a very welcome alternative). Take a look at comment sections on the likes of the Playstation Blog and it's a hive of idiocy. Maybe its just me, but when I see people being so utterly obsessed and defensive of consumer hardware of any sort - console, PC, phones, whatever - it strikes me as childish and unnecessary at best, and honestly gets in the way of talking about games like all of us want to. Hardware divisions will always be there by their very nature, but I don't think they need to get in the way and split communities quite as much as they do a lot of time.

And can't stress enough that this is nothing about being offended by it, it's just about being bored by it. As you yourself said, my main objection (outside the cases where its used as a straight-up trolling tool) is "it's old and quite boring"

Calhoun

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

To be fair, my particularly negative response to it has probably built up elsewhere. Places like Reddit's PC section, which I have stumbled into from time to time when looking for some information, are absolute cesspits for it and can be incredibly hostile. I've seen a few examples of it in the games cat here over the years (I'd still stand by that all the forums in this category are among the friendliest gaming forums I've ever encountered), but safe to say nowhere near on the level as one would see elsewhere online. Still, as a result of all that when I see the likes of PCMR used in thread titles here, that makes me involuntarily cringe nonetheless - just don't see the need for it whatsoever, and certainly well past the point of seeing the humour in it. That's just my personal response to it, fully understand others don't see it that way.

And, just to clarify, I've seen seriously obnoxious carry on from console users too (still wake up in cold sweats thinking about the PS4 vs Xbox One thread - some of the carry on there made a few PCMR jokes seem like a very welcome alternative). Take a look at comment sections on the likes of the Playstation Blog and it's a hive of idiocy. Maybe its just me, but when I see people being so utterly obsessed and defensive of consumer hardware of any sort - console, PC, phones, whatever - it strikes me as childish and unnecessary at best, and honestly gets in the way of talking about games like all of us want to. Hardware divisions will always be there by their very nature, but I don't think they need to get in the way and split communities quite as much as they do a lot of time.

And can't stress enough that this is nothing about being offended by it, it's just about being bored by it.

So the community of boards is to be judged on the sins of other online parts of the gaming community ?

Just to be clear I have multiple platforms so i generally don't get defensive about the different comments on each system. I do however get defensive when my community is being unfairly judged or used as a social platform for change for the wider community. You guys mod the community but you still need us serfs to keep it going.

If you are bored by something generally ignoring it works.

Falthyron

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

To be fair, my particularly negative response to it has probably built up elsewhere. Places like Reddit's PC section, which I have stumbled into from time to time when looking for some information, are absolute cesspits for it and can be incredibly hostile. I've seen a few examples of it in the games cat here over the years (I'd still stand by that all the forums in this category are among the friendliest gaming forums I've ever encountered), but safe to say nowhere near on the level as one would see elsewhere online. Still, as a result of all that when I see the likes of PCMR used in thread titles here, that makes me involuntarily cringe nonetheless - just don't see the need for it whatsoever, and certainly well past the point of seeing the humour in it.

And, just to clarify, I've seen seriously obnoxious carry on from console users too (still wake up in cold sweats thinking about the PS4 vs Xbox One thread - some of the carry on there made a few PCMR jokes seem like a very welcome alternative). Take a look at comment sections on the likes of the Playstation Blog and it's a hive of idiocy. Maybe its just me, but when I see people being so utterly obsessed and defensive of consumer hardware of any sort - console, PC, phones, whatever - it strikes me as childish and unnecessary at best, and honestly gets in the way of talking about games like all of us want to. Hardware divisions will always be there by their very nature, but I don't think they need to get in the way and split communities quite as much as they do a lot of time.

And can't stress enough that this is nothing about being offended by it, it's just about being bored by it.

Entirely subjective. Your experiences and opinion are based on what you have seen elsewhere. If you become bored of the Steam Sale threads that pop up every 6 months would you vote to ban or censor those? The Master Race joke doesn't divide anybody here. Show us an example of a forum user being berated or verbally assaulted by the Master Race joke.

People can be, and generally are, more offended by the contents of a thread than the title itself. There is a forum for Battlefield players. If I don't play Battlefield but would like to know more or criticise it while praising COD through comparisons, should I stay clear of that forum? Clearly it isn't for me, it is only for Battlefield players, I feel alienated by the very title and category of that forum. They will have jokes I won't understand, memes, comments and humour that I just won't get, but it might offend me.

Moreover, stuff in the Christianity forum annoys me, offends me, bores me, but I just ignore it. Like how reasonable people act when they come across content they find disagreeable. They allow others to enjoy it, because they do, and walk on.

The Master Race joke is the very same. It is a joke some people get and others don't. (See the Gaming Humour thread for examples of people not getting certain jokes). It doesn't exclude, it doesn't assault and it functions in the same way other forums and threads designed to be dedicated for a specific topic. The Master Race topic is a joke topic about various PC discussions.

I fear you are right Johnny when you mention that you are bored by the joke, but is it right for someone else to decide whether and when others should be bored by a joke?

johnny_ultimate

Falthyron wrote: »

Entirely subjective.

Yes, I'm just giving my opinion as a non-mod of this forum just as you are I make no apologies whatsoever for what we're doing over in Gaming (General) - the community there requested a change (to a legitimate problem), we responded, and there seems to be very few if any objections to it. What the mods here do is entirely their own prerogative, and I have no say whatsoever in it. I'm just offering feedback as a poster who would often have an interest in the topics discussed here. What I say here has no more weight than what you say. Frankly, I seem to be in a considerable minority.

I'm also not saying that anybody here is verbally berating anyone (I have seen it elsewhere on this site, but honestly can't say I've seen it in this forum bar a handful of sincere 'console peasant' comments), and I don't want to blame anyone here for crimes committed elsewhere. Apologies if anybody took that from my posts, was not intended. I just personally find it a turn off when I see PCMR jokes in thread titles and the like. That's just me, and yes hands up its carried over from biases developed elsewhere. I'm not denying that for a second.

If you become bored of the Steam Sale threads that pop up every 6 months would you vote to ban or censor those?

No, because I think it's a fundamentally different thing than a PCMR joke - a meme (with IMO elitist under/overtones) vs a topic of discussion.

I fear you are right Johnny when you mention that you are bored by the joke, but is it right for someone else to decide whether and when others should be bored by a joke?

Again, just giving feedback. I trust the mods here to take all of your feedback on board and make the decision they feel is right for this community as well as the wider games category. That's as bluntly as I can put it, really, and that's my opinion offered.

degrassinoel

Just thinking, (Danger Will Robinson!)
When a term like PCMR is removed by the charter it should be to benefit the community that uses the forum?

Yes it should imo, and i get that, that is why it's being removed. I'm right about that aren't i?


So, why is PCMR offensive to some and not to others?

I genuinely don't know why it's a problem other than it being a jokey self-deprecating description of pcgamers - particularly when it's used in a forum dedicated to pc gaming/ers.


How often has PCMR been used that it's become a problem?

Personally, I've used the term around 4 or 5 times in all of my posts here - including 2 topic titles, one of which i reported last night for a change and it's been changed.
I've received no complaints either on topic or in pm from mods or offended users to warrant changing the titles or a specific sentence in any post i've made since PCG's creation.

Just because i dont see the harm in it, doesn't mean that there is none, i get that, which is why i'm asking where is the harm in encouraging it's non-use through the charter, instead of outright banning it.


Again, just my two cents on it. But i feel strongly that encouragement not to use the term instead of what seems like direct censorship, would fit with forum a lot easier.

Dair76

I hope the irony isn't lost on people; banning the use of an innocuous phrase like "PCMR" might be seen as more fascist than any use of said phrase on a PC gaming specific forum.

And yes, it is innocuous. Anyone who says they are genuinely offended by it is lying, imo.

Calhoun

So the decision is already done and dusted and this isn't really a feedback thread, more of the same mods have made a decision and use this as an opportunity to let the community vent but do nothing about it.

Its funny how you talk about building a great community but i suppose it has to conform to your vision or vision of other mods who liken us to certain asses on reddit.

This is my primary problem here, if feedback had been sought from the community before hand and we had been engaged i wouldn't have so much a problem but this looks very similar to your approach to the radio forum.

Don't get me wrong its not lost on my that you are a volunteer to this site i would have hoped that considering how long you have been in the pc gaming community you would have enough respect for it to consult with us first.

Anyway good look with your cleanup of the forum.

degrassinoel

RopeDrink wrote: »

You could ask people about their own triggers and they simply wouldn't apply to everyone. I have a few very sensitive triggers, some of which others would find laughable - but hey, they can still get me to feel like someone said the most offensive thing ever or throw me into a rage while others giggle at how trivial it is to them, or the 'overreaction' in their eyes. Not saying that is the case here - but it's not the right question (why does it?).

One thing to remember about 'any' offensive content, especially that of which had never been in highlighted in any rules - is that so few people use report functions even against rule breaking material, meaning a lot probably feel that however offended they may be or however such comments effect their perspective on a forum attitude or discussion, it's futile to report. There is also an obscene amount of lurkers who will never make their feelings known regardless. A lot of others expressed concerns elsewhere.

Previous to (and during) talks it was obvious it had been a problem before in sister forums and quite a lot of people had very different takes on the term(s). Ultimately, it's not an attack on PCG or a claim that it was a problem to begin with or that there is something wrong with what we've been doing - it's more a small compromise for the bigger picture to smooth the tone across the gaming map. I still believe most people here won't miss anything at all and above all, I'm extremely glad PCG can still be left to its own devices. I feel we have something great here and of all the things that could have happened, we drew an extremely long straw.

We can debate in circles all day about the why's and what's but I cannot think of any legitimate reason why PCMR, fanboy or any other such comments are of any benefit during a public discussion when we already know we're on PCG of which is all about PC's anyways. I'm a hardcore PC player who hasn't owned a console since the PSX in my teens AND very competitive minded at that - yet I have never used such a term nor would it cross my mind to do so. Again, one size doesn't fit all of course.



This has already been updated in the charter. It's preferably to avoid setting such a tone through forum titles (overall forum image), whereas we can encourage those who may stumble on something they feel offensive discussion wise to report it for a review. Outright banning it wasn't really the intention - the intention behind the changes is to solidify PCG away from G(G) but also be open to the fact a lot of threads/posts/users from there (and elsewhere) can (and will) be dropped here along the way, hence similarities are inevitable.

Tbh man, this just says to me that the forum charter is already set in stone and wont ever be changed to suit the community, as Calhoun says "if feedback had been sought from the community before hand and we had been engaged i wouldn't have so much a problem"

+1 for that

That's exactly why I've been vocal on this too.
I'm an ordinary regular poster here before I'm a mod anywhere, and that type of censorship, and it is a silly little thing i agree, but that silly little thing being censored for little other reason than it's offending some of the gaming mods has the beginnings of a larger problem, unnecessary censorship of the PCG forum. Sounds dramatic doesn't it? And yet, that's what it's effectively become instead of a solution to a real problem.


before you dismiss this as grumpy old bollocktalk, I know exactly how much of a headache being a mod can be, trust me CT's is no picnic either. But ye know what? PCMR wasn't an issue before it was made an issue by banning it.

Anyway, i'll leave it there.

-Annoyed but calm Dgn

Edit: Additional - Before "i leave it there" Consider how awesome the regular posters are here that they actually post about how they want this community to be free from censorship and yet within tolerable levels of discussion.

titan18

It seems to me that one mod is bored of seeing it, so it's being banned. A bit extreme, I'm sure there's plenty of stuff people find boring on this site, but it doesn't need to be banned.

Tbh, I don't really see why we'd want people who are offended by PCMR to be here anyway, they sound boring.

Sonics2k

I'm still looking to see the exact use of Glorious PC Master Race is banned or discouraged from the PC Gaming forum, other than "someone may be sad by seeing it". Which is frankly, just silly.