Muslim group outside the Cineplex.

Not a NSA agent

QuinDixie wrote: »

But what did you mean by nice to be accepted in my own country statement.
What did that mean, What does it have to do with Muslims and Christians when you are neither.

Any adult that switches between any 2 religions, they are the ones to never be trusted.

We should only be saving Christians and now I cant be trusted. It isnt like we give children much of a choice.

Christianity in Africa isnt exactly the half assed job we got in Ireland. According to you we should send a gay person straight back to Uganda because it isnt Muslims persecuting him.

QuinDixie

SpaceTime wrote: »

Ireland is a post enlightenment, liberal democracy in most areas of life.

The issue I have is any religious group trying to run the state or operate their own legal systems. So far, the only groups to have attempted that have been Christian. Magdalene laundries etc being an example of a parallel religious judicial and prison system having been in operation.

We need solid separation of church and state though and a proper secular setup.

Lack of secular public schools is just going to cause ghettoisation and fragmentation as the country becomes more diverse.

It also provides space for extremist views to be merged into education.

That's not down to anything other than the Catholic church's stranglehold on education and the total lack of a public school system which will inevitably cause calls for more teligious schools.

The one problem with removing the RC Church from primary Schools, in most cases the schools are owned by the RC Church.
the rest of your post is pure tosh, the RC Church has done a lot of damage to this country but lets not forget the massive amount of good the RC Church has brought this country.

for someone who wants a liberal society, you are doing a good job of demonising the RC religion.

At least I am honest with my views on the Muslim faith.

QuinDixie

KCAccidental wrote: »

what, like Jesus and his apostles?

Do you not remember your religious education?

KCAccidental

QuinDixie wrote: »

The one problem with removing the RC Church from primary Schools, in most cases the schools are owned by the RC Church.
the rest of your post is pure tosh, the RC Church has done a lot of damage to this country but lets not forget the massive amount of good the RC Church has brought this country.

for someone who wants a liberal society, you are doing a good job of demonising the RC religion.

At least I am honest with my views on the Muslim faith.

What good have they done?

KCAccidental

QuinDixie wrote: »

Do you not remember your religious education?

The apostles were Jews who changed to Christianity in their adult years. Can't be trusting them eh?

SpaceTime

QuinDixie wrote: »

The one problem with removing the RC Church from primary Schools, in most cases the schools are owned by the RC Church.
the rest of your post is pure tosh, the RC Church has done a lot of damage to this country but lets not forget the massive amount of good the RC Church has brought this country.

for someone who wants a liberal society, you are doing a good job of demonising the RC religion.

At least I am honest with my views on the Muslim faith.

So I'm not allowed to have an opinion and my post is pure tosh?!

Also are you accusing me of being dishonest?!

Magdalene laundries never happened, did they not?

All I said in my post is we need to have a secular state which means no religion gets to run the place. The people do through normal democracy. No 3rd party bodies religious or otherwise should be merged into the state.

... and you're the one complaining about religious fundamentalism ?!

I don't want to live in a theocracy - Christian, Muslim or anything else!

Your choice of religion or your lack of a religion shouldn't be any issue in Ireland or any liberal democracy with secular values.

You've freedom to practice or not practice whatever you what or to believe or not believe in whatever you want.

Basically, your religious faith or lack there of shouldn't be anything to do with the state.

Frank Grimes

QuinDixie wrote: »

At least I am honest with my views on the Muslim faith.

You've said nothing about the religion itself (Islam) rather your posts just talk about not liking Muslims, which isn't very Christian.

It's great to know that bigotry, ignorance, and close mindedness are alive and well in the country.

KCAccidental

KCAccidental wrote: »

what, like Jesus and his apostles?

Not to mention large parts Africa, the Romans, etc. Good to know their bigoted views only apply to religions that aren't their own.

QuinDixie

Deleted User wrote: »

It's great to know that bigotry, ignorance, and close mindedness are alive and well in the country.

It sure is, all it takes is someone to post a slight on the Muslim faith and the response from posters is to attack viciously the Catholic faith.

One poster asked about the Irony of it all, you could not make it up.

Frank Grimes

QuinDixie wrote: »

It sure is, all it takes is someone to post a slight on the Muslim faith and the response from posters is to attack viciously the Catholic faith.

Again, you are not saying anything about the religion, you are just making sweeping generalisations about Muslims and generally speaking in an intolerant manner.

One poster asked about the Irony of it all, you could not make it up.

I was talking about the irony of the language you were using, obviously it went over your head.

You viciously attacked their religion. You should expect your own to be attacked too. If you're not willing to, then keep your own bigoted views to yourself. Problem solved. All happy.

SpaceTime

You are attacking the idea that people should be able to assemble in public and you've stated that only Christians should be allowed to enter the country.

You didn't attack Muslims you attacked fundamental Irish constitutional and general concepts of human rights and freedom of conscience.

It's not that long ago we'd a previous incarnation of the state removing rights from Catholics for being Catholic. It's not really a chapter of history we should be looking at repeating and applying to another group!

Northern Ireland is still recovering from the damage of that kind of thing...

Ireland's not a monoculture and being Irish isn't a relgious identity.

Sonics2k

QuinDixie wrote: »

It sure is, all it takes is someone to post a slight on the Muslim faith and the response from posters is to attack viciously the Catholic faith.

One poster asked about the Irony of it all, you could not make it up.

Nobody here attacked Catholics. Least of all not until you started spouting nonsense about blocking refugees from possibly coming here if not Christian.

I'm sure that's just what Jesus had in mind.

Enjoy Heroin Responsibly

Ralf and Florian wrote: »

Since when were Muslims a race?Theyre no more an ethnic group than Methodists or Hare Krishnas.

Its a perfectly valid point provided one has never made an assumption about a persons religious beliefs on the basis of what they look like or what part of the world they come from.

darkdubh

Debates on the issue of Islam in The West always seen to go in two extremes,the "send them packing,theyre all terrorists" view or "we should be equally respectfull of all cultures including Islam" opinion of many on the left(I am more or left leaning politicaly before anyone starts).G.K. Chesterton once said, “It is the test of a good religion whether you can joke about it.”We saw what happened with Charlie Hebdo,Theo Van Gobh and the Danish cartoons.There is a big problem at the core of Islamic society in that independent or progressive thinking is activly discouraged.It took hundreds of years for Western society to progress from witch burning and The Spanish Inquisition to what it is today.There has been little or no such progression or change for the good is much of the Islamic world and till there is there is going to increasing conflict as demographics change in Western Europe.

Enjoy Heroin Responsibly

darkdubh wrote: »

G.K. Chesterton once said, “It is the test of a good religion whether you can joke about it.

For how many years was the film "life of Brian" banned in Ireland again ?

SpaceTime

I agree fully that there's a problem with Islamic fundamentalism & it's certainly never something I would defend.

I just don't see how a group of Muslims on a street is suddenly being morphed into fundamentalism by certain posters though.

There's a discussion to be had about extremism but I just think we're risking demonising a complex community with quite a lot of internal denominations / sects most of which are very far from being extremists!

No religion or political group should be attempting to force views on anyone. That's quite simply a type of fascism and doesn't belong in any liberal democracy and the reactions of some aspects of of the Islamic world to criticism are completely insane.

However a group of religious people outside a cinema is absolutely not anything other than a group of relgious people outside a cinema.

Let's get things into a bit of perspective !!

There were reactions like this do the Irish community in the UK when the IRA was in full swing over there too.

I know Basques who have had the police phoned in Madrid bevause they were seen reading a newspaper in the Basque language.

Of any community Irish people should know what it's like having a bunch of terrorists claiming your good name !

darkdubh

Enjoy Heroin Responsibly wrote: »

For how many years was the film "life of Brian" banned in Ireland again ?

Eight or nine years or thereabouts.How long has The Satanic Verses been banned in Saudi Arabia?

darkdubh

Enjoy Heroin Responsibly wrote: »

For how many years was the film "life of Brian" banned in Ireland again ?

And while we're at it how long was Father Ted banned in Ireland for?Read back over my post again and note the word "progress".

the beer revolu

SpaceTime wrote: »

I agree fully that there's a problem with Islamic fundamentalism & it's certainly never something I would defend.

I just don't see how a group of Muslims on a street is suddenly being morphed into fundamentalism by certain posters though.

There's a discussion to be had about extremism but I just think we're risking demonising a complex community with quite a lot of internal denominations / sects most of which are very far from being extremists!

No religion or political group should be attempting to force views on anyone. That's quite simply a type of fascism and doesn't belong in any liberal democracy and the reactions of some aspects of of the Islamic world to criticism are completely insane.

However a group of religious people outside a cinema is absolutely not anything other than a group of relgious people outside a cinema.

Let's get things into a bit of perspective !!

There were reactions like this do the Irish community in the UK when the IRA was in full swing over there too.

I know Basques who have had the police phoned in Madrid bevause they were seen reading a newspaper in the Basque language.

Of any community Irish people should know what it's like having a bunch of terrorists claiming your good name !

Thank you for that post.
It very much sums up what I was trying to say, but far more eloquently.

SpaceTime

darkdubh wrote: »

And while we're at it how long was Father Ted banned in Ireland for?Read back over my post again and note the word "progressed".

To be honest censorship here was crazy and we still have a watered down blasphemy law on the books which needs to be deleted but to compare Ireland to a Middle eastern authoritarian state is a bit ludicrous.

We're a liberal democracy, we've a concept of freedom of speech and freedom of conscience and we rate pretty much at the top of the league for most things these days.

I mean for example I'd be risking being put to death in the Middle East because I'm an atheist and I'm not straight. I can walk the streets here with absolute confidence and other the odd minor annoying bigot it's a non issue. The state is certainly not going around trying to oppress me. Quite the opposite actually in most areas of life.

Ireland's on the other end of the spectrum from an Islamic authoritian state because it's a liberal democracy with rights and freedoms and is capable of embracing diversity of religion and lots of other things. It's not because we're Catholic and they're Muslim.

We're at the other end of the spectrum from non religiously inspired authoritian states too : China for example - try protesting China Water or arguing against government policy and you'll soon find out exactly why!

darkdubh

SpaceTime wrote: »

To be honest censorship here was crazy and we still have a watered down blasphemy law on the books which needs to be deleted but to compare Ireland to a Middle eastern authoritarian state is a bit ludicrous.

We're a liberal democracy, we've a concept of freedom of speech and freedom of conscience and we rate pretty much at the top of the league for most things these days.

I mean for example I'd be risking being put to death in the Middle East because I'm an atheist and I'm not straight. I can walk the streets here with absolute confidence and other the odd minor annoying bigot it's a non issue.

Fair point,but because were were doing stuff like banning The Life Of Brian back in 1979 and in 2015 we vote in marraige equality just shows how far we've progressed.We can't be too smug of course and the church still have a hold on education.My main point was that its a shame that there seems to have been very little similar progress in muslim society.Even Turkey,which was the most secular muslim majority state for many years seems to be going backwards under Erdogan.

leahyl

What the actual.....? This is the Cork City forum, this sort of thing is not discussed. End of

Thread closed.