Email from vendor asking us to up offer

Archaeoliz

Apologies for the long post.

I wonder if you could give me your take on this situation. We have a private sale (no EA) underway. We had an offer accepted at the end of February and contracts still haven't been issued by the vendor's solicitor (5 months and counting). Our three month mortgage offer expires mid July (after an extension) so we're going to have to reapply anyway at this point. We paid our deposit in March. There was a planning issue which he has not confirmed whether is resolved or not yet.

After just over three weeks of silence, yesterday evening I got this message from him:

"Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. This is my busiest time of the year. In the last week I have received an offer of 250 000 Stirling from a returning ex pat. For this I have to do a lot of work on the house which will cost me around 20 grand. I am willing to do this work as the markets have moved up by 12 to 15 percent since we first spoke. I am sure this is work you were going to do anyway I can furnish you with the list if you wish. Sorry to disappoint you at this time as I know you had your heart set on xxx house. I am still selling up and would give you first preference on a reasonable offer for a quick deal. Regards"

My instincts are that this is nothing more than a ploy to attempt to get us to up our offer. Which we're not going to do. Quick deal - OMG my sides are splitting! It's been 5 months already and the delay is him. If he didn't want to accept the offer then he didn't have to. Lunatic.

We'll walk away if we have to but correct me if I'm wrong on a couple of points please:

- My maths goes like this £250k is €350k on today's exchange rate. With €20k work to do the offer is effectively €330k, Our offer is currently €335k. Is he really asking us to up our offer because he's got a lower one?
- The market gone up by 12-15%? Not round here mate! We live in West Wicklow about 5km from Blessington and any sales on the PPR are well below asking plus daftdrop shows out of 24 comparable properties listed in the area since Feb 15, 6 have price changes and 5 of those are drops (2 of them by 16.67%!)

So our current plan is to just leave it. We'll reply sometime next week saying simply 'No thanks, no hard feelings, good luck and you know where we are if it falls through. We'll instruct solicitors to organise the return of our deposit'.

Does this sound sensible?

TheDriver

After 5 months, who is to say they won't wait another 5 months again......

Rackstar

Tell him where to shove it. Withdraw your offer and put in a new offer 10% below the original accepted offer.

MouseTail

He is a messer, get your deposit back and move on.

Victor

Rackstar wrote: »

Tell him where to shove it. Withdraw your offer and put in a new offer 10% below the original accepted offer.

I would concur, but are you a returning ex-pat who has offered "250 000 Stirling" for a property in West Wicklow?

What are the implications of getting a new mortgage? Will you get the same amount?

porsche boy

I had this with an estate agent back in 2005/6. He dragged his heals, mislaid paperwork, incorrectly filed docs etc. In the end I pulled my offer and told him what I would like to see happen to him and a large spikey stick.

Long story short I got a call 6 months later from a different agent who had taken over the sale offering me the property at a lesser price with apologies from the owner for the messing that went on.

My belief was the original agent and the seller were trying to gazump me ( remember that tactic?) Anyway I had already put a deposit on a bigger house down the country and stuck with that.

There are plenty of properties out there, just renew your mortgage approval and go for something else. Buying a house is stressful enough without that messing

Archaeoliz

Victor wrote: »

I would concur, but are you a returning ex-pat who has offered "250 000 Stirling" for a property in West Wicklow?

What are the implications of getting a new mortgage? Will you get the same amount?

Funnily enough, we've been in Ireland for a year so we're expats but from UK (although most of my extended family are from round here). Sort of why him trying to use Sterling against us stinks so much.

We had approval under the new CB rules and have an excellent LTV and salary so the mortgage (shouldn't) be an issue..but good point!

Thanks all - so glad the consensus is the same as I thought.

Time to walk away.

The_Conductor

If you have to reapply- the new mortgage approval will be based on a valuation of less than 2 months of age (valuations only last that long now). If prices have fallen as you suggest (and I have absolutely no reason to disbelieve you)- a new mortgage approval will likely be for a lower figure, to factor in the falls that have occurred in prices, since you first applied.

You are not necessarily going to get the same mortgage approval again- don't count on it.

Archaeoliz

The_Conductor wrote: »

If you have to reapply- the new mortgage approval will be based on a valuation of less than 2 months of age (valuations only last that long now). If prices have fallen as you suggest (and I have absolutely no reason to disbelieve you)- a new mortgage approval will likely be for a lower figure, to factor in the falls that have occurred in prices, since you first applied.

You are not necessarily going to get the same mortgage approval again- don't count on it.

Thanks, and understood!

The last valuation was renewed in Mid-May after it ran out. The valuer said he was happy to sign off on at the stated valuation and it runs until the end of our mortgage approval in a couple of weeks time. I do wonder whether it would meet the same valuation again. That could make it interesting.

He's been 'trying' to sell it for 7 years and now I know why.

He's a messer. If its not this it will be something else, ad infinitum. Get out and count yourself lucky.

ted1

I'd tell them to take a hike and start looking for new places, get your deposit back with any interest due and asked em to reimburse you the cost of any valuation or survey that you had done

slowjoe17

ted1 wrote: »

I am willing to do this work as the markets have moved up by 12 to 15 percent since we first spoke.

Unless you have been talking about this property for nearly a year, this is delusional.

Ask him for details/ETA on the planning issue. Tell him that if it isn't resolved within 7 days, you want your deposit back, with interest.

Archaeoliz

slowjoe17 wrote: »

Unless you have been talking about this property for nearly a year, this is delusional.

Ask him for details/ETA on the planning issue. Tell him that if it isn't resolved within 7 days, you want your deposit back, with interest.

We viewed on 14th Feb, so nope not a year. Sale price was agreed end of Feb.

I've been asking him for 3 months about the planning issue and he's never answered. I went to Wicklow CC and viewed the file so I have an idea but he won't confirm/deny anything.

So, here's a question. Can I really ask for interest as there's not been a formal contract only a deposit? He's obviously breaking the bargain at his end but I didn't think I would have any recourse at all. I'll also have whatever solicitor's fees have accrued over the last 5 months. We were of the opinion we'd have to simply suck it up and it's a part of the process.

Can I forward him our legal bill as well?

ted1

slowjoe17 wrote: »

Unless you have been talking about this property for nearly a year, this is delusional.

Ask him for details/ETA on the planning issue. Tell him that if it isn't resolved within 7 days, you want your deposit back, with interest.

I never said what you have quoted in the box

The_Conductor

I'd also say that your mortgage approval for the property is based on a valuation from (x date- expiring on the 17th July). Under new Central Bank lending rules- property valuations have to have a term of less than 2 months. The valuation on the property- is from 6 weeks ago (even if it is a renewed valuation- thats the age of it). If you are forced to get a new valuation done- it has been indicated to you that it will most probably be for a lesser price (I'd suggest a reduction of 5%- but base it on Propertypriceregister.ie sale prices for similar property in the area- so you're not pulling something out of thin air).

If he is not going through with the sale- you want your deposit back. Current rates being paid on Revenue/DSP/Agriculture payments owed- is 8%- its the government mandated interest rate (I'd go with this rather than the overdraft rate- which is 10-12%, depending on the customer).

The seller sounds like a right headcase.

On the brightside- prices are falling in the Dublin area and radiating outwards. Its entirely plausible that any property you may now move onto- is cheaper, perhaps significantly more so- than when you put your offer on this chancer's house.

Barely Hedged

Archaeoliz wrote: »

We viewed on 14th Feb, so nope not a year. Sale price was agreed end of Feb.

I've been asking him for 3 months about the planning issue and he's never answered. I went to Wicklow CC and viewed the file so I have an idea but he won't confirm/deny anything.

So, here's a question. Can I really ask for interest as there's not been a formal contract only a deposit? He's obviously breaking the bargain at his end but I didn't think I would have any recourse at all. I'll also have whatever solicitor's fees have accrued over the last 5 months. We were of the opinion we'd have to simply suck it up and it's a part of the process.

Can I forward him our legal bill as well?

This seller is without any doubt wasting your time. The only option is to walk away.

This being your only option, ask for your deposit back today.

You are not entitled to any interest accrued on the notional sum of the deposit.

You are not entitled to your solicitors fees resulting from the process to date.

This is the reality of the sale agreed process in Ireland. If you don't like it, approach your local TD and outline your story. In doing this, this is the only way it will be legislated for and hopefully you and other people in the future will not suffer the issues you've outlined above.

CIARAN_BOYLE

who has the deposit at present? is it the vendor or his solicitor. the vendor appears to be a bit of a messer so if he has it expect him to mess you around more.

gaius c

Run, don't walk and in a direction that takes you away from this messer.

Archaeoliz

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

who has the deposit at present? is it the vendor or his solicitor. the vendor appears to be a bit of a messer so if he has it expect him to mess you around more.

It's with his solicitor and went via our solicitor! I have no doubt we will get that back. IMHO Don't care who you are, on a house sale money goes through the lawyers

I didn't expect interest or legal fees back so they would have been a bonus but I've got to be philosophical about it.

Getting my runners on right now.

Archaeoliz

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone for the advice - we finally got our booking deposit back from the vendor's solicitor today (minus our solicitor's bill). We've found another place with an EA and have just put in an offer. Started low-ball and here we go again....

Rackstar

Great it's all mine now

On a serious note fair play to you, can't have been an easy decision especially having to pay the solicitors fees also. Good luck with your search.

snowgal

As a matter of interest, did the seller ever get back to you or re offer or anything?

Archaeoliz

snowgal wrote: »

As a matter of interest, did the seller ever get back to you or re offer or anything?

Nope, we didn't hear a thing from him. Not a sausage!