Anyone regret having kids?

MrWalsh

Akrasia wrote: »

Chemical Byrne was talking about paying some people to do it.

Whats the difference?

Akrasia

MrWalsh wrote: »

Whats the difference?

It depends on what's happening with the child.

Paying a stranger to replace the parents for 2 or 3 weeks while the parents go on holiday seems unnecessarily cold and stressful for the child. It's totally parent centered, the child gains little or nothing from such an experience other than perhaps being stressed and confused wondering where mammy and daddy are

On the other hand, when the kids are older, they can be sent away on summer camps, or exchange trips to foreign countries, or to live with relatives in another country or part of the country. The huge difference is that the children benefit from these trips, they're not just being minded by strangers for money, they're developing relationships with their cousins or grandparents that will last them a lifetime, or they're learning a new language or skill and experiencing a new way of living.

whatdoicare

We knew we wanted children when we went to Disneyland and every five minutes we were saying how great this will be when we have a kid or two and we bring them here, cant wait to see their little faces! We were excited by this idea!

We were also at the point where nights out were beginning to become boring as ****, wed travelled everywhere we wanted to go and life was starting to have a something missing feeling. This is a great time to start a family, you aren't thinking, oh my god I'm going to lose out on this or that, you're thinking, oh my god I cant wait to share this and that with a little me!

Its flipping amazing having a kid, watching them go from a squishy baby to a robust toddler and watching their little personalities develop. Its a much harder life, dont get me wrong, its bloody hard work with no days off and nothing is ever as easy or relaxed as before you had kids but its worth it.

Dont do it though until you are 100% ready, if you're still thinking of nights out and holidays away with no children, then it ain't the right time. They aren't puppies, you cant put them in a kennel so you can feck off for a few weeks and you shouldn't really want to.

I think myself, if you are regretting having children, either you were not ready, have mental health issues or you had them for totally the wrong reasons.

MrWalsh

Akrasia wrote: »

Paying a stranger to replace the parents for 2 or 3 weeks while the parents go on holiday seems unnecessarily cold and stressful for the child. It's totally parent centered, the child gains little or nothing from such an experience other than perhaps being stressed and confused wondering where mammy and daddy are

Why is it cold and stressful? It seems to me that professionals being paid to do it might make more of an effort than put upon relations. How do you know the child gains nothing from the experience? It happens the world over with rich people, you think the Duke and Duchess of Wales take their children on every holiday?

Akrasia wrote: »

On the other hand, when the kids are older, they can be sent away on summer camps, or exchange trips to foreign countries, or to live with relatives in another country or part of the country. The huge difference is that the children benefit from these trips, they're not just being minded by strangers for money, they're developing relationships with their cousins or grandparents that will last them a lifetime, or they're learning a new language or skill and experiencing a new way of living.

Im sure summer camps and foreign trips would be stressful for some kids. And they might not like their cousins and grandparents. They might learn no new skills.

I just think its a bit dismissive to refer to it as "kennelling" the children. Dont parents deserve some adult only time also?

Antarctica

Sleepy wrote: »

As a younger man I quietly scoffed at a cousin when we were discussing the fact that raising a child costs as much as a super-car when he said that the feeling of that little hand in yours as you walked down the street was worth more than any Ferrari. With the benefit of experience though, he was right: it is.

So you have also had a ferrari and can make this judgement? :pac:

The Corinthian

Akrasia wrote: »

Paying a stranger to replace the parents for 2 or 3 weeks while the parents go on holiday seems unnecessarily cold and stressful for the child.

Depends. It's not like it's unheard of, from wet nurses, nannies, through to boarding schools and summer camps, parents have been paying 'strangers' to look after their children for centuries, if not millennia.

That's not to say that it is not unnecessarily cold and stressful for the child, especially for prolonged periods and when the child is very young, but neither would I presume it based upon my own 'feeling'.

Sleepy

Antarctica wrote: »

So you have also had a ferrari and can make this judgement? :pac:

I've driven one but no, never owned one.

MrWalsh wrote: »

Why is it cold and stressful? It seems to me that professionals being paid to do it might make more of an effort than put upon relations. How do you know the child gains nothing from the experience? It happens the world over with rich people, you think the Duke and Duchess of Wales take their children on every holiday?

Rather different to leave a child with their Nanny than with total strangers. I do remember reading that Prince Charles was reportedly far closer to his nanny than to his mother and that such a relationship was far from unusual in the Royal family. Wanting a better parental relationship with her own chilldren was apparently something Diana was considered rather odd for...

As Corinthian says, out-sourcing child rearing is far from a new idea but it's rather at odds with modern ideas about parenting.

I'm all for dropping the kids to Granny's for a few days / a week for parents to get some down-time (honestly, wish we had the chance to do it more often!) but I'd be very wary of leaving them with strangers for any length of time.

zeffabelli

Sleepy wrote: »

I've driven one but no, never owned one.


Rather different to leave a child with their Nanny than with total strangers. I do remember reading that Prince Charles was reportedly far closer to his nanny than to his mother and that such a relationship was far from unusual in the Royal family. Wanting a better parental relationship with her own chilldren was apparently something Diana was considered rather odd for...

As Corinthian says, out-sourcing child rearing is far from a new idea but it's rather at odds with modern ideas about parenting.

I'm all for dropping the kids to Granny's for a few days / a week for parents to get some down-time (honestly, wish we had the chance to do it more often!) but I'd be very wary of leaving them with strangers for any length of time.

Also because grandparents are an important part of their lives, generational continuitity and as they get older, they are going to need someone to blow off steam to about mom or dad....and grandparents are good people to do that to, rather than a bunch of strangers!

MrWalsh

Sleepy wrote: »

I'm all for dropping the kids to Granny's for a few days / a week for parents to get some down-time (honestly, wish we had the chance to do it more often!) but I'd be very wary of leaving them with strangers for any length of time.

Isnt that what happens in creches daily round the world? The strangers are only strangers until they are friends.

zeffabelli

MrWalsh wrote: »

Isnt that what happens in creches daily round the world? The strangers are only strangers until they are friends.

Much more so in the western post Victorian world. And also a contentious choice. It's not universally accepted.

There is no right one way to do things.

Every family has individuals with different needs. I heard a definition of family as an "organisation which supports and invests in the promotion and evolution of its members."

It makes no sense to me to assume all other children are like mine, and then to address their needs in a universal vacuum of ignorance or that all family members are like mine either.

We cannot apply one paradigm to all and assume it will benefit all members of all families.

What works for the ROyal Family will not work for me. I am not the Royal Family.

The Corinthian

MrWalsh wrote: »

Isnt that what happens in creches daily round the world? The strangers are only strangers until they are friends.

I'm sorry, but for some reason that sounds seriously creepy...

limklad

Mr_Muffin wrote: »

It's just one of those things people will never admit to.

I'm sure most of the young mothers would love to be out partying and enjoying their youth instead of looking after a little baby but it's not socially acceptable to admit it.

I bet these mothers throughout the world regrets having kids. Children were just an inconvenience to them. It is a pity that so many childless couples are looking to love and care for children.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2190972/Bingeing-mother-left-baby-week-Jail-20-year-old-child-starving-cot.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2532660/Mother-left-four-year-old-girl-freezing-car-park-went-casino-arrested-child-abuse.html
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/424001/Mum-leaves-baby-to-starve-goes-partying
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2009/nov/16/home-alone-mother-blackburn-sentence
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/ocala-mom-arrested-in-death-of-3monthold-baby/32113464
http://crimefeed.com/2015/04/mother-claims-thought-ok-leave-4-year-old-alone-took-trip-left-instructions/
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/08/23/mum-left-baby-girl-home-alone-every-day-for-a-week-while-she-went-partying_n_7375116.html
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-mid-wales-19318591
http://lindaikeji.blogspot.ie/2014/09/sick-mum-left-baby-to-starve-to-death.html
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mum-left-two-children-home-5159914
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/glamour-model-left-two-children-5088906
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/mom-left-baby-maggot-infested-home-party-article-1.1352602
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/mother-accused-of-child-abandonment-set-to-testify-1.1875893
http://www.dreamindemon.com/community/threads/mary-ayala-is-a-party-animal-leaves-kids-home-alone.21669/
http://nation.com.pk/international/12-Jun-2015/four-children-left-alone-commit-suicide
http://www.blackupblackdown.com/2012/05/02/four-children-left-alone-die-while-mother-out-partying/
http://www.topix.com/forum/family/kids/TCVFLR7TSI5I6C4O9/p7
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/frightened-children-aged-6-7-4971240
Unfortunately, I have come across of some locally and some of them are even teaching young toddlers to steal from shops. that how little they care for their own kids. They are just a tool and a meal (correction: party) ticket for them.
http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/local-news/limerick-kids-are-being-groomed-to-steal-goods-1-6799971?WT.mc_id=Outbrain_text&obref=obinsite
I seen the same thing in other cites, thankfully they were caught by security.

zeffabelli

limklad wrote: »

I bet these mothers throughout the world regrets having kids. Children were just an inconvenience to them. It is a pity that so many childless couples are looking to love and care for children.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2190972/Bingeing-mother-left-baby-week-Jail-20-year-old-child-starving-cot.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2532660/Mother-left-four-year-old-girl-freezing-car-park-went-casino-arrested-child-abuse.html
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/424001/Mum-leaves-baby-to-starve-goes-partying
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2009/nov/16/home-alone-mother-blackburn-sentence
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/ocala-mom-arrested-in-death-of-3monthold-baby/32113464
http://crimefeed.com/2015/04/mother-claims-thought-ok-leave-4-year-old-alone-took-trip-left-instructions/
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/08/23/mum-left-baby-girl-home-alone-every-day-for-a-week-while-she-went-partying_n_7375116.html
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-mid-wales-19318591
http://lindaikeji.blogspot.ie/2014/09/sick-mum-left-baby-to-starve-to-death.html
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mum-left-two-children-home-5159914
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/glamour-model-left-two-children-5088906
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/mom-left-baby-maggot-infested-home-party-article-1.1352602
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/mother-accused-of-child-abandonment-set-to-testify-1.1875893
http://www.dreamindemon.com/community/threads/mary-ayala-is-a-party-animal-leaves-kids-home-alone.21669/
http://nation.com.pk/international/12-Jun-2015/four-children-left-alone-commit-suicide
http://www.blackupblackdown.com/2012/05/02/four-children-left-alone-die-while-mother-out-partying/
http://www.topix.com/forum/family/kids/TCVFLR7TSI5I6C4O9/p7
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/frightened-children-aged-6-7-4971240

Thanks for that ray of sunshine.

Chemical Byrne

I'd be inclined to think it would be preferable to leave a child with a professional childminder who is being paid and is very experienced and qualified rather than with some relation who might only be agreeing to it out of a sense of obligation even though they've better things to do.
Whats more I would consider a childminder a safer bet as they are vetted meticulously and they also have a reputation to uphold. Stories of professional childminders abusing kids are relatively scarce compared to tales of shady uncles and dodgy grandfathers interfering with children which are 10 a penny left right and centre. Relations also might not have the same childcare skills as a paid professional. Anyway, to a 4 or 5 yr old some far flung relation they may only see once a year is effectively a stranger anyway so it makes no difference.

It is not fair to offload kids onto grandparents anyway. They've done childrearing and its not right to reimpose that role onto them.

MrWalsh

zeffabelli wrote: »

Also because grandparents are an important part of their lives, generational continuitity and as they get older, they are going to need someone to blow off steam to about mom or dad....and grandparents are good people to do that to, rather than a bunch of strangers!

Not everyone has a family support system. What do you suggest for people in that position?

zeffabelli

MrWalsh wrote: »

Not everyone has a family support system. What do you suggest for people in that position?

I wouldnt know enough data on on "EVERYONE" to be able to make a universal suggestion.

QuinDixie

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

I'd be inclined to think it would be preferable to leave a child with a professional childminder who is being paid and is very experienced and qualified rather than with some relation who might only be agreeing to it out of a sense of obligation even though they've better things to do.
Whats more I would consider a childminder a safer bet as they are vetted meticulously and they also have a reputation to uphold. Stories of professional childminders abusing kids are relatively scarce compared to tales of shady uncles and dodgy grandfathers interfering with children which are 10 a penny left right and centre. Relations also might not have the same childcare skills as a paid professional. Anyway, to a 4 or 5 yr old some far flung relation they may only see once a year is effectively a stranger anyway so it makes no difference.

It is not fair to offload kids onto grandparents anyway. They've done childrearing and its not right to reimpose that role onto them.

Your comment about the shady uncle and dodgy grandfather being 10 a penny is a sign of hysteria that verges on disgraceful.
Child predators are not 10 a penny nor are they all men.

Chemical Byrne

Akrasia wrote: »

...............I don't think you're ready for kids yet.

Correct. i am not ready yet. But it is something I want in the next 5-6 years.

I would not be looking to be out on the piss 4 nights a week or going on fortnightly booze holidays when I'm a parent as someone suggested. I do not do so at present either and in any case, I don't drink anyway.

What concerns me is that I would want to be able to take a proper interesting holiday that has some level of adventure involved from time to time. Like twice a year or something.

Obviously I would like to be able to do things with my partner and have childcare arranged for 2 weeks but failing that I think taking separate holidays with friends really is the only option.

QuinDixie wrote: »

Your comment about the shady uncle and dodgy grandfather being 10 a penny is a sign of hysteria that verges on disgraceful.
Child predators are not 10 a penny nor are they all men.

Tbh my comment, although unpleasant and distatesful, I still think it is a reasonably cautious position to take. I mean abusers are very commonly known to the victim and related to them in some fashion, maybe through marriage etc. I stand by my position that a professional is trained, vetted and has a reputation to keep whereas a realative through marriage has none of those and also has the potential cover of "uncle paddy, sure he's harmless, would never do such a thing etc etc" that so many used to stay under the radar.

MrWalsh

zeffabelli wrote: »

I wouldnt know enough data on on "EVERYONE" to be able to make a universal suggestion.

Im not asking you to make a universal suggestion, Im asking you to make a suggestion for the specific case where parents do not have a family support system handy for minding the kids, say a couple who live in a different country to their family of origin for example?

What options would they have other than paying professionals to mind their kids if they wanted to go away somewhere without the kids?

zeffabelli

MrWalsh wrote: »

Im not asking you to make a universal suggestion, Im asking you to make a suggestion for the specific case where parents do not have a family support system handy for minding the kids, say a couple who live in a different country to their family of origin for example?

Yes you are asking me that. Every person and family is different.

I have pretty much zero support system, which means that I don't go on holidays at all or nights out at all either, and wont for the forseeable future.

I can't make these gigantic assessments on so little information about other peoples lives and futures and it would be irresponsible to do so.

lazygal

Some people regret having children, of that I have no doubt.

On the question of having children and then leaving them with someone else, I did just that today. We pay a professional minder to care for our children so we can both work outside the home. I am a better parent having a job outside of being a parent at home. I would not be as good a mother as I am if I was on call for them all the time. I'd be frustrated, bored and resentful. A year of maternity leave after having each of them was enough for me. We have grandparents living fairly close to us, but there is no way we'd expect or ask them to care for our children full time. They have raised their families and done their duty to us, bringing us to adulthood. They often offer babysitting so we can have a night out, and this is gratefully accepted. I grew up with two parents who worked outside the home, as did my husband, and I was in a creche from 12 weeks old and with a minder after my mum had more children. Other people outside of immediate family helping to care for children is not some crazy new idea.

Chemical Byrne

lazygal wrote: »

............On the question of having children and then leaving them with someone else, I did just that today. We pay a professional minder to care for our children so we can both work outside the home. ...........

Not really what we're getting at. We're talking more along the lines of going away for 2 weeks and having someone mind them.

mg1982

I dont regret not having them.

mikom

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

Thanks but I think you misunderstood what I was getting at. I mean if you were going travelling for 2 or 3 weeks is it even possible to get a person/persons to mind a child(ren) on a full time basis while you are away, full time as in 24hrs for the duration of your time away. I would imagine you would need to employ some form of tag team perhaps?

Have you thought about encasing your children in carbonite for the duration of your jaunt.........

Sleepy

MrWalsh wrote: »

Isnt that what happens in creches daily round the world? The strangers are only strangers until they are friends.

I think that's rather different tbh. A creche or childminder becomes part of a child's routine very quickly and is a stable part of their life. They'll have a bond with their carer(s) there.

Now, were such a carer to offer to provide 24/7 care for a week, that week away from their parents shouldn't be any more traumatic for the child than spending a week with Granny and Grandad. The way Chemical Byrne described such an arrangement, however, sounded more like the way you'd leave a puppy in a kennel for the week: with strangers who happen to be "childcare professionsals"

MrWalsh wrote: »

Im not asking you to make a universal suggestion, Im asking you to make a suggestion for the specific case where parents do not have a family support system handy for minding the kids, say a couple who live in a different country to their family of origin for example?

What options would they have other than paying professionals to mind their kids if they wanted to go away somewhere without the kids?

Honestly, I think that's a cost of living away from family: you don't get a week away without the kids until they're old enough to mind themselves / be sent to the Gaelscoil etc. Most couples with kids I know are happy to manage an odd weekend away together.

That's far more the norm in my experience anyway. I'd know parents who have gone years without a single night away together, never mind a fortnight hiking the Inca Trail. In 7 years together we've left the kids with their grandmother for a week for our honeymoon*, have holidayed separately with friends and have managed a few weekends away together while the kids stayed with grandparents in the past few years but for the first few years, such things were but a dream.

MrWalsh

zeffabelli wrote: »

Yes you are asking me that. Every person and family is different.

I have pretty much zero support system, which means that I don't go on holidays at all or nights out at all either, and wont for the forseeable future.

I can't make these gigantic assessments on so little information about other peoples lives and futures and it would be irresponsible to do so.

Ok - so you dont have any suggestions except to not have time away from the kids.

Thats cool if it works for you, but Im sure it doesnt work for others.

MrWalsh

Sleepy wrote: »

Honestly, I think that's a cost of living away from family: you don't get a week away without the kids until they're old enough to mind themselves / be sent to the Gaelscoil etc. Most couples with kids I know are happy to manage an odd weekend away together.

Thats certainly one of the reasons why I wouldnt be cut out for parenting.

Zillah

I'm pretty sure I'd regret it if I had children. I'm not mentally inclined towards it. I resent people who put obligations on me, I get very annoyed when I can't decide how to spend my own time. I'm quite selfish in ways, very generous in others - but always at my own discretion.

I love my nephews and I'm delighted they are in my life, but I wouldn't be willing to commit to having my own, I think I'd feel they were an anchor in my life and I'd resent them for it. Being gay it's never really been a risk that I could get someone accidentally pregnant, I can only imagine how frustrating it must be to have a family thrust on you by fate.

galljga1

mikom wrote: »

Have you thought about encasing your children in carbonite for the duration of your jaunt.........

Where can you get this done and for how long?

mikom

mikom wrote: »

Have you thought about encasing your children in carbonite for the duration of your jaunt.........

galljga1 wrote: »

Where can you get this done and for how long?

I think Aras Attracta have a carbon freezing chamber that they use to offer the service.
How long? Well a minimum of 2 weeks........ that's if the child survives the freezing process.

Neyite

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

Not really what we're getting at. We're talking more along the lines of going away for 2 weeks and having someone mind them.

They are not a pet.

Children need consistency. It took my child weeks to settle into creche properly and he was one of the ones that adapted quite quickly. AND he got to come home every evening to his mother and father and familiarity of us and his routine.

No way would I even contemplate leaving him in unfamiliar surroundings with a stranger who didn't know him, his likes, his dislikes for a couple of weeks. He is part of the family - something I think you are not getting. So when we plan nice things to do as a family, its as normal to include him in the planning for a holiday as it would be to include my partner. My child is someone I enjoy spending time with and building memories with. Just like I enjoy time with my partner. I wouldn't want to go somewhere and have an amazing experience for two weeks and NOT have him there to share it. He enriches our experiences because we are sharing them with him. We still get couple time. Weekends away, sleepovers and so on. But if he wasnt there, our entire trip would be just the two of us saying to each other "Oh, look at that! Son would LOVE that, wouldn't he?" and then feel a bit sad that he missed out.

But lets take you example of a professional boarding service for a child, and work out an estimate of how much it might cost for two weeks per child: You'd expect someone with Fetac 3 in childcare as a minimum for this professional service and have to legally factor in rest /lunch breaks for the workers so you are looking at 2-3 people minimum rotating over those 2 weeks. Crèches average out at about €230 per week for 50 hrs per child. Slight discount for a second child. So, for a two week holiday at a minimum you'd be looking at over €1.5k for childcare for one child alone for your holiday. Then add on unsocial hours premium, weekend premium, and other children to take into account, its a service that simply would not be cost effective enough to make a business out of. And one that a lot of parents wouldnt be all that keen on anyway, because its expecting a child or children to get used to a few strangers at little or no notice. That's why nannies and nanny shares are much more popular for people who require longer times away from their child- they give a far better service for the money, and are consistent familiar faces for the child.

Ush1

Zillah wrote: »

I'm pretty sure I'd regret it if I had children. I'm not mentally inclined towards it. I resent people who put obligations on me, I get very annoyed when I can't decide how to spend my own time. I'm quite selfish in ways, very generous in others - but always at my own discretion.

I love my nephews and I'm delighted they are in my life, but I wouldn't be willing to commit to having my own, I think I'd feel they were an anchor in my life and I'd resent them for it. Being gay it's never really been a risk that I could get someone accidentally pregnant, I can only imagine how frustrating it must be to have a family thrust on you by fate.

The "thrusting" is more the cause usually than fate.

QuinDixie

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

Correct. i am not ready yet. But it is something I want in the next 5-6 years.

I would not be looking to be out on the piss 4 nights a week or going on fortnightly booze holidays when I'm a parent as someone suggested. I do not do so at present either and in any case, I don't drink anyway.

What concerns me is that I would want to be able to take a proper interesting holiday that has some level of adventure involved from time to time. Like twice a year or something.

Obviously I would like to be able to do things with my partner and have childcare arranged for 2 weeks but failing that I think taking separate holidays with friends really is the only option.



Tbh my comment, although unpleasant and distatesful, I still think it is a reasonably cautious position to take. I mean abusers are very commonly known to the victim and related to them in some fashion, maybe through marriage etc. I stand by my position that a professional is trained, vetted and has a reputation to keep whereas a realative through marriage has none of those and also has the potential cover of "uncle paddy, sure he's harmless, would never do such a thing etc etc" that so many used to stay under the radar.

If you really feel like that, which one of your uncles or grandfathers is not to be trusted with your children?

MrWalsh

Neyite wrote: »

But lets take you example of a professional boarding service for a child, and work out an estimate of how much it might cost for two weeks per child: You'd expect someone with Fetac 3 in childcare as a minimum for this professional service and have to legally factor in rest /lunch breaks for the workers so you are looking at 2-3 people minimum rotating over those 2 weeks. Crèches average out at about €230 per week for 50 hrs per child. Slight discount for a second child. So, for a two week holiday at a minimum you'd be looking at over €1.5k for childcare for one child alone for your holiday. Then add on unsocial hours premium, weekend premium, and other children to take into account, its a service that simply would not be cost effective enough to make a business out of. And one that a lot of parents wouldnt be all that keen on anyway, because its expecting a child or children to get used to a few strangers at little or no notice. That's why nannies and nanny shares are much more popular for people who require longer times away from their child- they give a far better service for the money, and are consistent familiar faces for the child.

Amazing when you consider that boarding school costs as little as 12.5k for a school year and the child is educated as well as fed, watered, boarded etc.. (source, Rockwell Colleges current fees).

Sounds like itd be cheaper to bring a nanny on holidays with you to mind the child.

Neyite

MrWalsh wrote: »

Amazing when you consider that boarding school costs as little as 12.5k for a school year and the child is educated as well as fed, watered, boarded etc.. (source, Rockwell Colleges current fees).

Well...my maths might be off slightly. Never my strongest subject. :P I was basing it on creche fees which is probably a lot different from older children. Arent schools subsidised though?

wrote:

Sounds like itd be cheaper to bring a nanny on holidays with you to mind the child.

Egg-zactly. Bring a nanny, put them in a second room, and give her a nice bonus for the added workload. Or, send kids to stay with friends or family for a couple of weeks and pay back the favour for the other set of parents - which is what my folks and their friends used to do.

zeffabelli

MrWalsh wrote: »

Ok - so you dont have any suggestions except to not have time away from the kids.

Thats cool if it works for you, but Im sure it doesnt work for others.

I never made that suggestion.

All I did was say what I do.

Why dont you tell everyone what they should do with their kids then? Kids you know nothing about, incomes you know nothing about, and families you know nothing about...

Why dont you offer solutions based in a void of ignorance...so easy to do when you dont have to live with the consequences of your advice.

MrWalsh

zeffabelli wrote: »

I never made that suggestion.

All I did was say what I do.

Why dont you tell everyone what they should do with their kids then? Kids you know nothing about, incomes you know nothing about, and families you know nothing about...

Why dont you offer solutions based in a void of ignorance...so easy to do when you dont have to live with the consequences of your advice.

zaffabelli - Ive no interest in engaging with someone so patently defensive and rude.

Its a discussion forum, if you do not wish to engage in discussion or simply want to throw out rude comments, then just stick me on your ignore list eh?

galljga1

Holidays just would not be holidays without the kids.

Chemical Byrne

That's why nannies and nanny shares are much more popular for people who require longer times away from their child- they give a far better service for the money, and are consistent familiar faces for the child.

Again excuse my ignorance in these matters, but how do nannies work? Genuine question. Say in this instance would they live in your home looking after the children for the week or so or what would happen?

MrWalsh

Neyite wrote: »

Well...my maths might be off slightly. Never my strongest subject. :P I was basing it on creche fees which is probably a lot different from older children. Arent schools subsidised though?

I dunno if the likes of Rockwell is subsidised. I remember being really shocked that it was so cheap to send your child there (I know someone who sent 2 kids there). When I say cheap - I always assumed boarding school was a LOT more expensive. Thats a 7 nights a week price, its cheaper again if you do 5 nights - so the child is home at the weekends.

I wonder how many people board their kids for the school year? Thatd be the time to take the adult only holiday, forget the nanny!

PARlance

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

I would not be looking to be out on the piss 4 nights a week or going on fortnightly booze holidays when I'm a parent as someone suggested. I do not do so at present either and in any case, I don't drink anyway.

What concerns me is that I would want to be able to take a proper interesting holiday that has some level of adventure involved from time to time. Like twice a year or something.

Obviously I would like to be able to do things with my partner and have childcare arranged for 2 weeks but failing that I think taking separate holidays with friends really is the.

Don't be stressing or overthinking about the holiday thing.
It is highly unlikely that either you or your partner will be able to leave your young kids for a week, let alone a fortnight. Even if that seems unimaginable at the moment.

Priorities change with kids and it's not a conscious thing, it'll just happen and before you know it you'll be more interested in the colour of their poo than going to interesting places by yourself (for the first few years at least).

MrWalsh

PARlance wrote: »

.... before you know it you'll be more interested in the colour of their poo than going to interesting places by yourself for the first few years.

You make parenting sound so.......appealing

zeffabelli

MrWalsh wrote: »

zaffabelli - Ive no interest in engaging with someone so patently defensive and rude.

Its a discussion forum, if you do not wish to engage in discussion or simply want to throw out rude comments, then just stick me on your ignore list eh?

Huh? You made a claim and I disputed it. B

That's all that was.

I never offerred any advice, unlike you who posits the Royal Family of all people as a model.

Wabbit Ears

absolutely no regrets. I absolutely and unconditionally love my kids. Sure they make me crazy at times and there are loads of downsides but these are drops in the ocean compared to how amazing it is to be a father.

king_of_inismac

A good friend of mine recently told me she would be happier if she didn't have kids.

All her kids are exceptionally high achievers, and are (apart from the usual teenage dramas) very good and well-rounded people.

She herself is a great parent and sacrifices an awful lot for them.

However, while she loves her kids completely, she would argue that if she never had kids, she would have led a happier and less stressed life. She'd have had more time for personal self development and her interests.

I'd consider her one of the most intelligent and well-read people I know, so I know she doesn't say things lightly.

It's not that she regrets HER kids specifically, she just thinks her life would have been happier if she didn't have any kids.

(I should say, I really respect her honesty about the subject. As someone considering having kids myself in the coming years, it's good to hear some well considered (and against the grain) opinions)

Neyite

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

Again excuse my ignorance in these matters, but how do nannies work? Genuine question. Say in this instance would they live in your home looking after the children for the week or so or what would happen?

Depends on the nanny, and the family tbh. Some families are happy with a nanny that goes home at 6pm to their own house, others advertise for a live-in nanny. Duties and responsibilities depend on what's agreed between the employer and employee, but as a broad example, a nanny would do some light housework if related to the childcare - eg, cooking for the children, children's' laundry, tidying playroom, but wouldn't be expected to clean up after parents. Even if they were live in though, working through nights or babysitting would likely be extra and need to be pre-agreed.

MrWalsh

king_of_inismac wrote: »

A good friend of mine recently told me she would be happier if she didn't have kids.

This isnt unusual, I know a number of people who have expressed the same sentiment.

People who have chosen not to have children are usually able to express why they chose not to. But people who have chosen to have them often seem to have trouble defining why they wanted them. I suspect there are many people who have children without much thinking about it at all and then a subset of them realise, after the fact, that they might have been happier without them.

MrWalsh

Neyite wrote: »

Depends on the nanny, and the family tbh. Some families are happy with a nanny that goes home at 6pm to their own house, others advertise for a live-in nanny.

This reminds me of a guy I used to work with who had a live in nanny and he was quite upset at one point because his baby smelled of BO. The nannies BO was rubbing off onto the child so he had a smelly baby as a result. He didnt know how to address it tactfully but he was very distressed by it!

Chemical Byrne

Neyite wrote: »

Depends on the nanny, and the family tbh. Some families are happy with a nanny that goes home at 6pm to their own house, others advertise for a live-in nanny. Duties and responsibilities depend on what's agreed between the employer and employee, but as a broad example, a nanny would do some light housework if related to the childcare - eg, cooking for the children, children's' laundry, tidying playroom, but wouldn't be expected to clean up after parents. Even if they were live in though, working through nights or babysitting would likely be extra and need to be pre-agreed.

And Neyite, in this sort of situation are nannies like this someone who is employed on a continuous long term basis by a family or is it possible to hire them temporarily for a period of weeks? I can certainly accept that they won't pick up after adults, that is not their role.



And just out of interest, what age were guys on here when they bacame fathers? And how do ye feel now about that age ye chose? Do ye wish ye waited longer or begun sooner?

Akrasia

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

And Neyite, in this sort of situation are nannies like this someone who is employed on a continuous long term basis by a family or is it possible to hire them temporarily for a period of weeks? I can certainly accept that they won't pick up after adults, that is not their role.



And just out of interest, what age were guys on here when they bacame fathers? And how do ye feel now about that age ye chose? Do ye wish ye waited longer or begun sooner?

I was 26 when my first was born, I now have 3 kids (and that's enough) The youngest is 2

The way i look at it is, It's tough for the first few years to be trapped in the house by toddlers and small kids who can't really do very much, but I'll still be plenty young enough to do some travelling and whatever when my kids are older and more independent.

it takes an awful lot of energy to chase around small children and I don't know how well I would cope if i was starting my family at the age of 36 instead of 26