Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015 - Mod Post in OP 23/07

The_Kew_Tour

dahat wrote: »

De Gea and ADM out

Claissen+Romero with Pedro and Ramos in.

Is that something all are comfortable with?

Yes, if we get another big name in as well.

yermandan

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JamboMac

Was it Phil Jones marking the earthquakes scorer? If he can't mark an mls player then good luck.

pmasterson95

Reece James has left us to join Wigan.

Tugboats

mcratsix wrote: »

If we want to win it again soon, we need to think bigger than Romero or Cillissen.

And think bigger than Smalling, Jones, Evans and Rooney?. Why the obsession with a goalkeeper when we have those players in the team? They won't win us champions leagues regardless of our standard of goalkeeper

pmasterson95

Tugboats wrote: »

And think bigger than Smalling, Jones, Evans and Rooney?. Why the obsession with a goalkeeper when we have those players in the team? They won't win us champions leagues regardless of our standard of goalkeeper

Rooney?

Nalz

pmasterson95 wrote: »

Reece James has left us to join Wigan.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/33620597

Tugboats

pmasterson95 wrote: »

Rooney?

Yes. Wayne Rooney won't lead Man Utd to a 4th European cup

stephenl15

Tugboats wrote: »

Yes. Wayne Rooney won't lead Man Utd to a 4th European cup

If we get a top CB and keep De Gea, and our new signings gel, he might do

Adamocovic

JamboMac wrote: »

Was it Phil Jones marking the earthquakes scorer? If he can't mark an mls player then good luck.

Ah now, hope that was a tongue in cheek remark :pac:

Trigger

Tugboats wrote: »

Yes. Wayne Rooney won't lead Man Utd to a 4th European cup

What exactly is your problem with Rooney as a player? Can you explain why you are putting him in that level of player?

Adamocovic

astradave wrote: »

What exactly is your problem with Rooney as a player? Can you explain why you are putting him in that level of player?

What has Rooney ever done for us?

Tugboats

stephenl15 wrote: »

If we get a top CB and keep De Gea, and our new signings gel, he might do

So you want to improve improve other areas on the pitch and then hope Rooney does the business? Rooney is a good player on world class wages and we should be looking for better than that

Adamocovic

pmasterson95 wrote: »

Reece James has left us to join Wigan.

Bit disappointing, had a good pre season last year, his only game with us was against MK Dons though wasn't it? Seems to have good potential but probably best for his career to move somewhere he could break into the main team and get regular football

The_Kew_Tour

Few Spanish channels have Pedro deal done by end of week.

24million euro

JamboMac

Adamocovic wrote: »

Ah now, hope that was a tongue in cheek remark :pac:

I wiSh it was if he doesn't improve this season I think it's about time we sold him.

Cantona's Collars

https://twitter.com/English_AS/status/623816935134887936

Alf Veedersane

Tugboats wrote: »

Rooney is a good player on world class wages and we should be looking for better than that

Out of interest, who should we be looking at to replace Rooney as the centre forward?

There is a dearth of top goalscorers that are available.

Alf Veedersane

zerks wrote: »

https://twitter.com/English_AS/status/623816935134887936

To be fair, Pedro is a player that's always 'close to landing'.

Tugboats

astradave wrote: »

What exactly is your problem with Rooney as a player? Can you explain why you are putting him in that level of player?

He's not good enough to lead Man Utd. Fergie had it right with him playing second fiddle to Rvp, dropping him and playing him out of position in big games. 3 years later he's now leading the line and captain of the club:o

pmasterson95

Tugboats wrote: »

So you want to improve improve other areas on the pitch and then hope Rooney does the business? Rooney is a good player on world class wages and we should be looking for better than that

Well I think for FM or Fifa we'd probably all love to sign Messi to play as a striker but in reality yeah thats not happening.

Trigger

Tugboats wrote: »

He's not good enough to lead Man Utd. Fergie had it right with him playing second fiddle to Rvp, dropping him and playing him out of position in big games. 3 years later he's now leading the line and captain of the club:o

That doesn't answer the question.. Why is he not good enough? in what aspect?

paulbok

Mirror going with LLorente as our secret santa striker.

Cantona's Collars

paulbok wrote: »

Mirror going with LLorente as our secret santa striker.

Too immobile,we need somebody with pace and power up front.Rooney doesn't do that any more so we need that option again.

A Brad Maddox Guy

Baffles me that anybody can think that the player who will likely retire as our all time top goalscorer isn't good enough to lead the line.

Cookiemunster

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Anyone follow Fabrizo Ramano on Twitter? If so good\bad

Saying Otamendi close to United.

I saw it through retweet

Never heard of him, but the James Ducker reported that the United hierarchy are bemused by the reports and reckon he's the new Giatan. Sid Lowe reckons it's a non runner too.

The Moldy Gowl

Tugboats wrote: »

He's not good enough to lead Man Utd. Fergie had it right with him playing second fiddle to Rvp, dropping him and playing him out of position in big games. 3 years later he's now leading the line and captain of the club:o

Ugh

Mitch Connor

astradave wrote: »

That doesn't answer the question.. Why is he not good enough? in what aspect?

First touch is poor.

Compare him to the top forwards at other top clubs.

When Diego Costa is fit, he is better.
Suarez is better.
Aguero is better.
Lewandowski is better.

After those, however, the arguement becomes much more arguable, imo. While I don't think Rooney is as good as he could have been, or should have been, and while I would criticise him as much if not more than most - finding an available forward who is significantly better than him.

For me, a lot of what is good about Rooney, is actually lost when he plays as the lead forward. His workrate tracking back to win the ball back, his (arguably overuse of) play switching passing etc - he either can't do that because he is leading the line or we suffer because he has done it - because there is now no forward to aim at.

He doesn't physically bully defenders like he used to. He doesn't use his pace to stretch them or get in behind. He doesn't have the close control or dribbling to make snot of them in the box. He is a decent finisher, but not exceptional. Between him and Benzema to be a line leading forward, I would go with Benzema.

WallyGUFC

zerks wrote: »

Too immobile,we need somebody with pace and power up front.Rooney doesn't do that any more so we need that option again.

Heh. Immobile

Trigger

paulbok wrote: »

Mirror going with LLorente as our secret santa striker.

The Mirror is full of fcukin idiots tbf

The_Kew_Tour

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Never heard of him, but the James Ducker reported that the United hierarchy are bemused by the reports and reckon he's the new Giatan. Sid Lowe reckons it's a non runner too.

Cheers, in fairness Ducker and Lowe are 2 guys I respect so they probably right.


Although who knows what Ed is up too.

Tugboats

astradave wrote: »

That doesn't answer the question.. Why is he not good enough? in what aspect?

He lacks a first touch, intelligence and is hugely inconsistent for a player who commands wages that suggest he should be doing it week in week out. He's obviously not getting any younger or better. The biggest warning sign was when he fell out with Ferguson, looked to be leaving and no club in Europe wanted him apart from Chelsea with a half hearted 25m odd bid:o. He doesn't sound like one of the greats in Europe to me

Cantona's Collars

WallyGUFC wrote: »

Heh. Immobile

Was waiting for that:p

Liam O

Does nobody think that given Rooney, Wilson, RVP and Falcao all struggled in the forward line last season that maybe, just maybe the problem was that the team wasn't set up to get the best out of them. I don't think the 3 older ones all suddenly being over the hill is really washing with me.

Korat

Rooney has never been the star man in winning a major trophy. He has contributed handsomely but not in the way Cantona, Schmeichel, Keane, RVN, Ronaldo or RVP have. In seasons where he has been the outstanding player Utd have come up short. Whatever the reasons for that, bad luck maybe, it's a fact that even he must be aware of.

I'd be delighted if this was the year it all fell into place for him but I suspect that once again Utd will need someone else to be the talisman if we're to pick up a major trophy.

Mitch Connor

Liam O wrote: »

Does nobody think that given Rooney, Wilson, RVP and Falcao all struggled in the forward line last season that maybe, just maybe the problem was that the team wasn't set up to get the best out of them. I don't think the 3 older ones all suddenly being over the hill is really washing with me.

I certainly think that is a large part of it. However, my concerns and criticisms of Rooney remain in spite of that. I have no doubt Rooney will score for us as our lead forward, I have no doubt he will score many goals. However, I do doubt he will drive us on and make the difference as the lead forward in the biggest games we will hopefully have in the league and in europe. Most games he will have more than enough (presuming good service) to put the opposition to the sword, but in the games where we need our striker to put on an exhibition of forward play to pull us through, I don't see Rooney being capable. I don't think Rooney will scare top sides the way Lewandowski, Aguero, Costa or Suarez do (or Ronaldo, Messi, Bale, Neymar as forward players)

JamboMac

How much are we spending? With all these rumours must be close to 250,000,000. More reports of muller £70,000,000 from German paper de bild.

The Moldy Gowl

JamboMac wrote: »

How much are we spending? With all these rumours must be close to 250,000,000. More reports of muller £70,000,000 from German paper de bild.

1 billion euros. We are buying all the rumours because lvg hates the media so much, he dosent want to give them anymore gossip inches.

Trigger

Mitch Connor wrote: »

First touch is poor.



Compare him to the top forwards at other top clubs.

When Diego Costa is fit, he is better.
Suarez is better.
Aguero is better.
Lewandowski is better.

His First touch can be inconsistent but its not poor.

I agree with where you are coming from but for me I think he is up there with Costa and Lewandowski and would be well able to lead the line for most top European teams.

Mitch Connor wrote: »

He is a decent finisher, but not exceptional. Between him and Benzema to be a line leading forward, I would go with Benzema.

Rooney is a goalscorer and when he was previously given a chance at leading the line and not fcuked around into different positions like he was the last couple of years, he delivered. I do believe that he can deliver again with a functional midfield behind him. His off the ball work to create space for the other attacking players should not be overlooked also.

Tugboats wrote:

He lacks a first touch, intelligence and is hugely inconsistent for a player who commands wages that suggest he should be doing it week in week out.

Rooney has very high level of footballing intelligence, I think this is a pop at him and not his ability. As I said previously i don't think he lacks/has a poor first touch. I agree he can be inconsistent, but consistency in playing position will breed consistency in performance

Tugboats wrote:

He's obviously not getting any younger or better.

That goes without saying but he has plenty left in the tank if managed correctly

Tugboats wrote:

The biggest warning sign was when he fell out with Ferguson, looked to be leaving and no club in Europe wanted him apart from Chelsea with a half hearted 25m odd bid. He doesn't sound like one of the greats in Europe to me

I think the falling out with the club and Ferguson is hindering you in seeing what Rooney has achieved at the club

TheDoc

Interesting if the Muller stuff turns out to be true. Such an outragous bid could be designed to properly test Munichs resolve, for a player reported to be having numerous fallings out with the manager.

And before anyone starts a multi page debate on "value" and "worth" and fees, that could all well tie into Di Maria going to PSG, providing more funds for United to test Munich's stance.

Muller would happily offset the loss of Di Maria for me, and provide a genuine upgrade to the first 11 who guarantees goals, and goals in BIG games.

United clearly only have this exit for Di Maria now, another limp season and his value would be on the floor. Can understand, and potentially support the idea of cutting the losses now, if it means a top class talent coming in to replace.

Mitch Connor

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

1 billion euros. We are buying all the rumours because lvg hates the media so much, he dosent want to give them anymore gossip inches.

If Ed Woodward was any cop at his job he could buy all the rumours for 900million, especially with the € devaluation. He needs keeping away from rumour negotiations.

CSF

paulbok wrote: »

Mirror going with LLorente as our secret santa striker.

That would be about as underwhelming as it gets unless Van Gaal has a time machine.

TheDoc

and relating to Rooney, while I still detest some of his actions, I've come to separate them from the player who plays in the shirt.

I've also come to provide him the benefit of the doubt, as he has been shunted and shifter around the pitch for way too long, with no doubt it being a massive impact on his career. Consider how our critism of Rooney somewhat stems from him not reaching the heights we all expected. Imagine how he feels, that he has never captured the limelight as others have, because he has been shoved around into positions all over the place.

And in his credit, he has never complained. He just does it. And as best he can.

Rooney up front, consistently, without being moved around, would be a potent spearhead for our attack, I don't care what anyone says. The seasons where he played exclusively up front, he has provided the returns you want from a top level striker.

Far too long Rooney has been shunted around and him used as a gap to fill in voids in the team. Those voids don't need filling any longer, and he needs to play his best role, up front.

Adamocovic

Mitch Connor wrote: »

First touch is poor.


Compare him to the top forwards at other top clubs.
When Diego Costa is fit, he is better.
Suarez is better.
Aguero is better.
Lewandowski is better.
After those, however, the arguement becomes much more arguable, imo.

True, sure he has only scored 230 goals for us and 119 assists. Hardly screams great. Not up to the level of top forwards at all.

While I
don't think Rooney is as good as he could have been, or should
have been, and
while I would criticise him as much if not more than most -
finding an available
forward who is significantly better than him.

Yeah he definetely was a bit of a disappointment there. Imagine if he reached how good he should have been. He would have been a top player. He'll have to settle now for only a couple of personal awards and team awards. Pity.

Personal:
PFA Players' Player of the Year (1)
PFA Young Player of the Year (2)
PFA Fans' Player of the Year (2)
PFA Premier League Team of the Year (3)
Football Writers' Player of the Year (1)
Sir Matt Busby Player of the Year (2)
BBC Young Sports Personality of the Year (1)
Bravo Award (1)
Golden Boy Award (1)
UEFA Euro 2004 Team of the Tournament
FIFPro World Young Player of the Year (1)
Premier League Player of the Season (1)
Premier League Player of the Month (5)
England Player of the Year (3)
FIFA Club World Cup Golden Ball (1)
FIFA FIFPro World XI (1)

Team
Premier League (5)
Football League Cup (2)
FA Community Shield (3)
UEFA Champions League (1)
FIFA Club World Cup (1)

For me, a lot of what is good about Rooney, is actually lost when he plays as
the lead forward.

Yeah, if I remember right he played most of his football as our lead striker in 2009 and 2011, sure he got something like 30+ goals but his tackles per a game, clearances and interceptions were incredibly low. As you said we lost the good things about him.

His workrate tracking back to win the ball back, his (arguably
overuse of) play switching passing etc - he either can't do that because he is
leading the line or we suffer because he has done it - because there is now no
forward to aim at.

Yup, either way he plays it doesn't matter he makes us suffer.

He doesn't physically bully defenders like he used to. He doesn't use his pace
to stretch them or get in behind. He doesn't have the close control or dribbling
to make snot of them in the box. He is a decent finisher, but not exceptional.
Between him and Benzema to be a line leading forward, I would go with Benzema.

Exactly, lad has no real skill, cant control the ball well or dribble good enough, doesn't have the strength anymore in his old age and sure he doesn't even use his pace (the little he has). Give me Benzema all day long.

******
I don't normally go over the top sarcastic but come on Mitch. Admit you don't like him fair enough, but the guys 29 years old, soon to be our top scorer of all time, has produced magical moments for us, won us a lot of trophies with his skill, goals, assists overall play and you describe him as if he's some player who had a poor to decent spell at the club without reaching full potential.

jayo26

Well guys wasn't bad game last night few decent performances I think Shaw impressed last night and McNair was really eager to shine.

Schneiderlin apart from looking like a bus turning for their goal was solid for his 45 mins.

Bastian did less running but that's OK he was always there to take the ball from the defence and he was barking out orders plus some of his longrange passing was top notch.

Wilson and januzai have gone back big time they are not anywhere good enough for the first team on current form perera and linegard have passed them out.

Depay will get better and better he has bags of energy.

Tugboats

TheDoc wrote: »

And in his credit, he has never complained

He questioned the ambition of the club. Then we bought a better player who replaced him and he got his wife to complain when he was dropped against Real Madrid:o

TheDoc

Tugboats wrote: »

He questioned the ambition of the club. Then we bought a better player who replaced him and he got his wife to complain when he was dropped against Real Madrid:o

On reflection, he was right to criticse the ambition of the club.

Do we need to roll out that picture of the signings made after Ronaldos exit? Van Persie was the first notable purchase bar Kagawa for what felt like years and years. The club had got into a comfort zone expecting SAF to perform miracles, and we never capitalised on the European success that should have been exploited to sign top talent and setup as a dominant force.

All the flag waving and chest thumping and financial reports still doesn't put us into the bracket of Bayern, Real and Barca, who can pry players away from top clubs, in their prime, and sell their own players when they want and are ready, and reclaim big fees.

We totally botched the plan and what should have happened after all those successive CL finals, and I don't blame Rooney for becoming disillusioned.

Coat22

paulbok wrote: »

I really don't get why this isn't insisted on, a player under contract who wants to leave a club, who really want to hold onto him, should have to put in a transfer request.

I know it's all down to loyalty payments etc, but if he wants to leave against the clubs wishes, then why should the club have to also pay him anything?

Maybe he does want to leave but is willing to wait until next summer. Everyone (including him I guess) assumes that United will be forced to sell him this summer to recoup a fee but from his point of view he's happy to sit out and collect his loyalty bonus, get a large signing fee from RM next year and move then. Personally think he's being a bit of a dick about it but he's completely entitled to.

I think the question should be more pointed towards ADM - he's obviously looking to move this summer so he should be forced to stick in a request however his agent also knows the cards are stacked in his favour as there are few clubs could take him so if PSG come in United maybe left with little choice

Mitch Connor

TheDoc wrote: »

Interesting if the Muller stuff turns out to be true. Such an outragous bid could be designed to properly test Munichs resolve, for a player reported to be having numerous fallings out with the manager.

And before anyone starts a multi page debate on "value" and "worth" and fees, that could all well tie into Di Maria going to PSG, providing more funds for United to test Munich's stance.

Muller would happily offset the loss of Di Maria for me, and provide a genuine upgrade to the first 11 who guarantees goals, and goals in BIG games.

United clearly only have this exit for Di Maria now, another limp season and his value would be on the floor. Can understand, and potentially support the idea of cutting the losses now, if it means a top class talent coming in to replace.

My issue on the Muller stories is this (and it is tied to an subjective valuation of him):

For me, 70million is insane money for him, insane. It benefits Bayern more than us for stories of bids that big for him that Bayern reject. Showing how they are still such a german club with a local lad still so valued at the club. If they sold him, as I have said many times, the fans will go mental. Pointedly NOT selling him, for any outrageous fee proposed, is a timely message to the fans.

There has also been talk the fee reported for BS is higher than what has actually been paid, but it suits Bayern to allow the higher reports and United weren't arsed either way so haven't disputed them. Hogenstein said this last week - so these Muller stories could be a similar PR game from Bayern.

bucketybuck

Adamocovic wrote: »

I don't normally go over the top sarcastic

You can be as sarcastic as you want, but I'm another that doesn't believe Rooney reached his full potential, both because of how he was used in the team and because of the level of desire he had.

That doesn't at all mean he never performed for us or was not one of our best players for years. Of course he was. But he could have been better again, if he had really put the work in he could have been on Ronaldo level, and in my opinion he simply didn't want it enough.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2354497/Wayne-Rooney-hated-gym-Ronaldo-says-ex-Manchester-United-fitness-coach-Mick-Clegg.html