Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015 - Mod Post in OP 23/07

The Moldy Gowl

People just need to knock that chip off their shoulder and climb off ther high horse and admit they don't like Rooney because he asked for more money and was fully entitled to ask for more money.

Why would Rooney not put his needs first?
Rooney is uphelp to this strict moral barometer that not one of would ever pass.

The Moldy Gowl

What do ye mean by full potential??

Is this some arbritary level cough Ronaldo cough that ye made up?

NoviGlitzko

Just to add my thoughts on the striker debate. I'd really not like to get either Ibra or Cavani. These guys aren't gonna want to play second fiddle to Rooney, and if Rooney has to play off him we are messing up the team formation (and Wayne is a much better player than either of them). It would do more harm than good. Who do you drop from that position? Herrera? Muller would be the dream really, but with Rooney up front and the abundance of midfield talent at our disposal I don't really understand why it's a priority.

Maybe get some decent cover like Austin or whatever if we really have too, but I'd rather break the bank for Otamendi. Wilson might as well move on if we bring in a striker, which I'd be disappointed about as I think he's potential.

Coat22

A Brad Maddox Guy wrote: »

Baffles me that anybody can think that the player who will likely retire as our all time top goalscorer isn't good enough to lead the line.

Because he's not (consistently) a 20+ a year man. He may (will) end up our all time top goalscorer but that's as much to do with circumstances than anything else - he's in his 12th season, playing more games than anyone previously etc.

If RVN or RVN had been with united for 11 years they'd have blown that record out of the water by now.

Great player but not in my opinion the man to lead the line in a title winning team.

Maximus Alexander

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

People just need to knock that chip off their shoulder and climb off ther high horse and admit they don't like Rooney because he asked for more money and was fully entitled to ask for more money.

Why would Rooney not put his needs first?
Rooney is uphelp to this strict moral barometer that not one of would ever pass.

If the going rate for my services was higher than what I was being paid I wouldn't be long about having a meting with the boss where I said, look I appreciate the job and all, but show me the money or I'm out of here.

Actually, I've done this.

I'll never understand why footballers are expected to be different.

Mitch Connor

Adamocovic wrote: »

Long Post

When Rooney burst on to the scene he as as good as any around. You could have a proper debate as to who was or would be better - Ronaldo, Rooney, Messi. At his best people were still arguing his merits in such conversations - in 2010 I think he was not quite on their level, but not far off - similar to Suarez of late.

Now, there is no argument, Ronaldo and Messi are lightyears ahead of him, and you could argue a number of other players are too. He hasn't reached the heights expected of him.

I blame both him and Ferguson for him.

Had he a team built around him as Ronaldo and Messi have - he'd be better now.

Had he a greater dedication to his fitness and his craft - he'd be better now.

His sacrifices for the side in terms of doing whatever is asked of him, stunted his development. His selflessness allowed others to shine and excell while he did the dirty work.

He suffers from by good/very good at many facets of the game, resulting in him being not world class exceptional at enough of his game.

His inconsistency of performance is also an issue for me. Some days he will look brilliant, some days you may as well have a brick wall in his place as it will trap the ball as well and contribute as much.

It isn't a hatred of Rooney that has me saying this imo, I feel it is a pragmatic review of him - of his actual play.

Tugboats

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

People just need to knock that chip off their shoulder and climb off ther high horse and admit they don't like Rooney because he asked for more money and was fully entitled to ask for more money.

Why would Rooney not put his needs first?
Rooney is uphelp to this strict moral barometer that not one of would ever pass.

I don't think anyone is angry because Rooney asked for more money. Its the club who were stupid enough to give it to him and it's LVG who was stupid enough to make him captain . None of that is Rooneys fault. When he fails this season to score a respectable amount of PL goals I hope the club will decide to look elsewhere. I think there's plenty out there who would like to replace him and pick up his 300k or whatever he gets per week.

Trigger

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

If the going rate for my services was higher than what I was being paid I wouldn't be long about having a meting with the boss where I said, look I appreciate the job and all, but show me the money or I'm out of here.

Actually, I've done this.

I'll never understand why footballers are expected to be different.

Coat22

Adamocovic wrote: »

Personal:
PFA Players' Player of the Year (1)
PFA Young Player of the Year (2)
PFA Fans' Player of the Year (2)
PFA Premier League Team of the Year (3)
Football Writers' Player of the Year (1)
Sir Matt Busby Player of the Year (2)
BBC Young Sports Personality of the Year (1)
Bravo Award (1)
Golden Boy Award (1)
UEFA Euro 2004 Team of the Tournament
FIFPro World Young Player of the Year (1)
Premier League Player of the Season (1)
Premier League Player of the Month (5)
England Player of the Year (3)
FIFA Club World Cup Golden Ball (1)
FIFA FIFPro World XI (1)

How many of these were in one or two seasons? Rooney had 2 fabulous 34 goal seasons which deserved every honour thrown at him but apart from that? 5 seasons since he hit 20? Played out of position etc but ask yourself why? Because we had better options?

Hank Scorpio

bucketybuck wrote: »

You can be as sarcastic as you want, but I'm another that doesn't believe Rooney reached his full potential, both because of how he was used in the team and because of the level of desire he had.

That doesn't at all mean he never performed for us or was not one of our best players for years. Of course he was. But he could have been better again, if he had really put the work in he could have been on Ronaldo level, and in my opinion he simply didn't want it enough.

I agree with most of that, I think being shafted around the pitch by Ferguson didn't do his development any favours either, imo it got to the point the team was relying too much on him to fulfill his potential as a striker.

pmasterson95

Coat22 wrote: »

Because he's not (consistently) a 20+ a year man. He may (will) end up our all time top goalscorer but that's as much to do with circumstances than anything else - he's in his 12th season, playing more games than anyone previously etc.

If RVN or RVN had been with united for 11 years they'd have blown that record out of the water by now.

Great player but not in my opinion the man to lead the line in a title winning team.

Can someone remind me when RVN played on the wings and CM for us? I cant seem to remember it?

NoviGlitzko

Yeah but Rooney up front is better than anyone we can get at this time apart from say Ronaldo.

The Moldy Gowl

Tugboats wrote: »

I don't think anyone is angry because Rooney asked for more money. Its the club who were stupid enough to give it to him and it's LVG who was stupid enough to make him captain . None of that is Rooneys fault. When he fails this season to score a respectable amount of PL goals I hope the club will decide to look elsewhere. I think there's plenty out there who would like to replace him and pick up his 300k or whatever he gets per week.

The club is stupid and lvg is stupid?

You don't believe that?

pmasterson95

Coat22 wrote: »

How many of these were in one or two seasons? Rooney had 2 fabulous 34 goal seasons which deserved every honour thrown at him but apart from that? 5 seasons since he hit 20? Played out of position etc but ask yourself why? Because we had better options?

Because we had the likes of Obertan. For example Dimitar Berbatov, Wayne Rooney and Gabriel Obertan.


Which is better for the team
RW - Obertan
ST - Rooney
Sub - Berbatov

OR

RW- Rooney
ST - Berbatov
Sub - Obertan

Trigger

Gotta love the aul Rooney debates when there is no transfers to talk about

Tugboats

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

The club is stupid and lvg is stupid?

You don't believe that?

Yes the contract and the captain's armband were acts of stupidity. Maybe I should just become a happy clapper and think everything is wonderful at the club

Cookiemunster

Coat22 wrote: »

Because he's not (consistently) a 20+ a year man. He may (will) end up our all time top goalscorer but that's as much to do with circumstances than anything else - he's in his 12th season, playing more games than anyone previously etc.

If RVN or RVN had been with united for 11 years they'd have blown that record out of the water by now.

Great player but not in my opinion the man to lead the line in a title winning team.

How often were RVN or RVP played out on the left or in central midfield?

Coat22

pmasterson95 wrote: »

Can someone remind me when RVN played on the wings and CM for us? I cant seem to remember it?

But why? Why was Rooney asked to play on the wings etc? Why didn't Ferguson/Moyes/ LVG ask Van Persie to do it and leave Rooney up front? Because they were better bloody options!

Rooney wasn't first choice striker under 3 managers for a reason - there were better players to play there.

Adamocovic

bucketybuck wrote: »

You can be as sarcastic as you want,

bucketybuck wrote: »

but I'm another that doesn't believe Rooney reached his full potential, both because of how he was used in the team and because of the level of desire he had.
That doesn't at all mean he never performed for us or was not one of our best players for years. Of course he was. But he could have been better again, if he had really put the work in he could have been on Ronaldo level, and in my opinion he simply didn't want it enough.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2354497/Wayne-Rooney-hated-gym-Ronaldo-says-ex-Manchester-United-fitness-coach-Mick-Clegg.html

On his potential. I think some people have very high expectations of what he is or was capable.

Everytime you sign a young striker you hope they will go on to break records, become our top scorer, lead us trophies, score loads of goals for us, go on to be a great legend and service to the club. Rooney at 29 has nearly achieved all that. He has brought helped us win lots of trophies and individually has been brilliant. He will no doubt become our top scorer too.

I think he has more than delivered it what he has brought to the club since signing. So many top players with "potential" flop or don't make it, Rooney hasn't and now despite his brilliant achievements is said that "he could have been so much better".

I don't agree with this sort of disappointment and opinion that he failed to impress or live up to his potential (the level is up to the posters own minds). He has become a top player known all over the world and given us a great service. No disappointment there in my eyes.

And on his "level of desire", no disrespect to Clegg who was a long term servant for us, but the day I form my opinions on a players desire towards football based on a few words a former coach told The Sun about his views on the gym work in an article that a good half of the space is taken up with four photos of Ronaldo just in shorts is a sad day.

Just because of that article I'm not going to turn around and say "yeah Rooney has no desire or passion", I've never seen him training, I don't know how passionate he is. I know nearly every player whos played with him has praised him, but who knows.

I honestly feel a lot of people just personally dislike Rooney for the person he is not the player and because of this refuse to acknowledge that he has performed well enough to go on the be remembered as one of the clubs greats, a club legend. And then another half of his critics placed huge expectations that he was going to be scoring 30+ goals every season while we win the league every year.

The very notion that Rooneys career has been a disappointment or sorts for us is completely baffling in my eyes.

Trigger

Coat22 wrote: »

But why? Why was Rooney asked to play on the wings etc? Why didn't Ferguson/Moyes/ LVG ask Van Persie to do it and leave Rooney up front? Because they were better bloody options!

Rooney wasn't first choice striker under 3 managers for a reason - there were better players to play there.

Or you could say the opposite, there wasn't better players to play in the positions that he was shunted into

TheDoc

Coat22 wrote: »

Because he's not (consistently) a 20+ a year man. He may (will) end up our all time top goalscorer but that's as much to do with circumstances than anything else - he's in his 12th season, playing more games than anyone previously etc.

If RVN or RVN had been with united for 11 years they'd have blown that record out of the water by now.

Great player but not in my opinion the man to lead the line in a title winning team.

Some interesting numbers here

06-07 : 14 League 23 total
07-08 : 12 League 18 total
08-09 : 12 League 20 total
10-11 : 11 League 16 total
12-13 : 12 League 16 total

09-10 : 26 League 34 total - Season Rooney injured ankle against Bayern
11-12 : 27 League 34 total

Rooney has five premier league titles, and from what I can remember or read, was never the exclusive, number one striker.Every campaign has large portions of him playing out wide, or behind another striker.

In 09-10 and 11-12, Rooney played exclusively up front, and on both occasions broke the 20 goal mark(which I love to use as an indicator)

They are just numbers from which you can draw a few conclusions or thoughts. For me though it indicates Rooney plugged large voids or holes in those title winning sides, or we had what Ferguson deemed a more potent striker operating as the main man. On the rare occasions Rooney has been entrusted with being the undisputed no.1 striker, his returns have been excellent.

You could also draw the conclusion Rooney has never led the team to a title as the undisputed no.1 striker, but that is misleading considering it was not through his failures or problems that had him moved around.

I think we could easily see this coming season the return we saw in those two seasons where he played up front exclusively as no.1. vividly remember that season he injured his ankle, he was in ridiculous form, and missed like 6 weeks or something with that injury. He could have happily broken 40 for the season without that injury.

so I'd argue, and maintain the stance(assisted by data, but not exclusively) that when Rooney is played up front as our number one striker, he provides the returns expected of an elite striker at an elite club, and taken as a whole, excusing poor performances and dry spells here and there, will provide enough goal scoring returns expected for a title winning/challenging team.

Cookiemunster

Coat22 wrote: »

But why? Why was Rooney asked to play on the wings etc? Why didn't Ferguson/Moyes/ LVG ask Van Persie to do it and leave Rooney up front? Because they were better bloody options!

Rooney wasn't first choice striker under 3 managers for a reason - there were better players to play there.

No he was asked to play there because we didn't have any better options in the squad to play in those positions, not because we had better strikers.

Mitch Connor

Coat22 wrote: »

Rooney wasn't first choice striker under 3 managers for a reason - there were better players to play there.

Or it was better from a balance/shape/tactical perspective that a lesser player (for sake of argument at least) be played up front and Rooney be played from out wide, or midfield, because his selflessness allowed him to at least 'do a job' there.

If it was simply a case of better options, he'd have been dropped completely, i think.

Rooney was consistently used to plug holes in a poorly balanced/put together football team, by Fergie, LVG and Moyes - because for the most part he will simply do what is asked of him without much fuss (and do it well enough).

He should be commended for that - but at the same time it is part of the reason I criticise him as a forward - he'd be a better forward if the team had been built around him and he had been allowed to fully develop there. (along with having a single minded focus and determination to be the best footballer he could be).

brinty

Has Rooney been shunted about - Yes
Is rooney an out an out #9 - no
Is he a number 10 - yes
Did we had better strikers/CF's - yes
Has Rooney scored sufficient numbers of goals - not consistently season on season


Rooney will always divide opinion, but to me his scoring return has not been good enough.

Can anyone remind me of the seasons where Scholes scored 15+ from CM... or playing as a quasi 10????

Rooney has often played in CM in the soles role and hasn't close to the same rate of scoring as the ginger magician

pmasterson95

Coat22 wrote: »

But why? Why was Rooney asked to play on the wings etc? Why didn't Ferguson/Moyes/ LVG ask Van Persie to do it and leave Rooney up front? Because they were better bloody options!

Rooney wasn't first choice striker under 3 managers for a reason - there were better players to play there.

So is that why you think Rooney played CM last year? Because Falcao was so unstoppable and banged in 20+ goals?


The main reason Rooney got budged around so much is we were utterly ****e in those positions and Rooney had to plug those gaps. Seeing the likes of Berbatov or RVP in the side ahead of the likes of Obertan, Gibson, Bebe, Bellion kept the overall quality of the team high.

TheDoc

Coat22 wrote: »

But why? Why was Rooney asked to play on the wings etc? Why didn't Ferguson/Moyes/ LVG ask Van Persie to do it and leave Rooney up front? Because they were better bloody options!

Rooney wasn't first choice striker under 3 managers for a reason - there were better players to play there.

Rooney's engine, stamina and determination were very much a big part of problem that arose in moving him around into different positions.

In tough matches or Champions league ties away from home, Ferguson would deploy Rooney on a flank as he would provide a diligent defensive duty, and leave Ronaldo up top on his own, so the team could break and counter.

In tough domestic matches, Ferguson also went with this 4-5-1 formation, with Rooney out wide. When playing a team with a tricky or talismatic winger, Rooney would be deployed to that flank to provide extra defensive cover.

The fact is that his flexability to playing other positions provided the managers a reliable option and tactical flex. Van Persie could never do the wing work required of getting up and down. Van Nistelroy couldn't, Berbatov couldn't. And the list goes on.

Rooney's movement to other positions were not because the strikers were inherently better then him, it was because he could provide a tactical role that no one else could, and he would do it diligently and reliably.

The Moldy Gowl

This is turning into the new carrick debate.

Cookiemunster

brinty wrote: »

Has Rooney been shunted about - Yes
Is rooney an out an out #9 - no
Is he a number 10 - yes
Did we had better strikers/CF's - yes
Has Rooney scored sufficient numbers of goals - not consistently season on season


Rooney will always divide opinion, but to me his scoring return has not been good enough.

Can anyone remind me of the seasons where Scholes scored 15+ from CM... or playing as a quasi 10????

Rooney has often played in CM in the soles role and hasn't close to the same rate of scoring as the ginger magician

Scholes scored 20 goals in all comps once in his career. His highest ever league total was 14 and he once scored 10 league goals. He never outscored Rooney in season.

TheDoc

Mitch Connor wrote: »

He should be commended for that - but at the same time it is part of the reason I criticise him as a forward - he'd be a better forward if the team had been built around him and he had been allowed to fully develop there. (along with having a single minded focus and determination to be the best footballer he could be).

But the above paragraph, seems to fuel direct criticism at Rooney himself, as if it is his fault, or his problem.

His development was massively hampered by Ferguson and as you say, a team should have been built with the entire purpose of feeding him goalscoring opportunities.

Rooney exclusively up front is actually one of the exciting prospects I'm awaiting this year.

Adamocovic

Jaysus lads, I know we're all entitled to our opinions and all that but I find the notion of Rooneys career being a disappointment as one of the most baffling debates on here... and that includes the debate on whether Luke Chadwick would have been better than Beckham had he been better looking! :pac:

pmasterson95

Cookiemunster wrote: »

No he was asked to play there because we didn't have any better options in the squad to play in those positions, not because we had better strikers.

I suppose you could say we had better strikers in the sense that Berbatov was better than Obertan.

KevIRL

yermandan wrote: »

Howayeh lads

Here are this season's FF details!

United Superthread FF league code: 614417-153234

PAID LEAGUE: PM me for details. 10 euro entry!

In for the paid league...

Alf Veedersane

Coat22 wrote: »

But why? Why was Rooney asked to play on the wings etc? Why didn't Ferguson/Moyes/ LVG ask Van Persie to do it and leave Rooney up front? Because they were better bloody options!

Rooney wasn't first choice striker under 3 managers for a reason - there were better players to play there.

You can spin that one the other way too, i.e. that Rooney was better than the other options in the position he was put into and the combination of him out wide or further back with someone else up top was better than him up top and AN Other out wide.

How many times was Rooney played wide in big CL matches because of his workrate and his willingness to track back that no one else in the squad was going to be as good at?

I'm no Rooney cheerleader and I think he could have been even better had he applied himself more but to dismiss him as some people are doing is laughable.

TheDoc

brinty wrote: »

Has Rooney been shunted about - Yes
Is rooney an out an out #9 - no
Is he a number 10 - yes
Did we had better strikers/CF's - yes
Has Rooney scored sufficient numbers of goals - not consistently season on season


Rooney will always divide opinion, but to me his scoring return has not been good enough.

Can anyone remind me of the seasons where Scholes scored 15+ from CM... or playing as a quasi 10????

Rooney has often played in CM in the soles role and hasn't close to the same rate of scoring as the ginger magician

How do people quantify Rooney as a 10. I've never understood this ever, and I think it furthers the fuel to debate that so many people don't know what a 10 is, and what they do.

Rooney is a 9, a striker, any which way you look at it. This 10 stuff is nonsense.

Rooney has hit double figures pretty much every league campaign. I think actually every league campaign. For a player who spent most of those seasons out of position, that is a pretty good return.

Under Ferguson there was atleast 10-12 games a season Rooney was played out of position, for him to provide the tactical role he was able to do. So while it's simplistic to equate that to a figure of goals he "could" have scored, its fair enough to say that for 10-12 games a season he had the possibility of scoring goals completely removed.

Nalz

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

This is turning into the new carrick debate.

You in work? Call out to mine if you're not...

Alf Veedersane

Trilla wrote: »

You in work? Call out to mine if you're not...

Coat22

TheDoc wrote: »

Some interesting numbers here

06-07 : 14 League 23 total
07-08 : 12 League 18 total
08-09 : 12 League 20 total
10-11 : 11 League 16 total
12-13 : 12 League 16 total

09-10 : 26 League 34 total - Season Rooney injured ankle against Bayern
11-12 : 27 League 34 total

Rooney has five premier league titles, and from what I can remember or read, was never the exclusive, number one striker.Every campaign has large portions of him playing out wide, or behind another striker.

In 09-10 and 11-12, Rooney played exclusively up front, and on both occasions broke the 20 goal mark(which I love to use as an indicator)

They are just numbers from which you can draw a few conclusions or thoughts. For me though it indicates Rooney plugged large voids or holes in those title winning sides, or we had what Ferguson deemed a more potent striker operating as the main man. On the rare occasions Rooney has been entrusted with being the undisputed no.1 striker, his returns have been excellent.

You could also draw the conclusion Rooney has never led the team to a title as the undisputed no.1 striker, but that is misleading considering it was not through his failures or problems that had him moved around.

I think we could easily see this coming season the return we saw in those two seasons where he played up front exclusively as no.1. vividly remember that season he injured his ankle, he was in ridiculous form, and missed like 6 weeks or something with that injury. He could have happily broken 40 for the season without that injury.

so I'd argue, and maintain the stance(assisted by data, but not exclusively) that when Rooney is played up front as our number one striker, he provides the returns expected of an elite striker at an elite club, and taken as a whole, excusing poor performances and dry spells here and there, will provide enough goal scoring returns expected for a title winning/challenging team.

I posted something last week which showed that only once in his United career did he finish top scorer and United won the league (the year him and Ronaldo bagged 34 each)

This tells me (although doubtless I'm wrong) that if United are to win things then they have needed someone else leading the line with Rooney making his contribution playing behind the main striker.

TheDoc

Adamocovic wrote: »

Jaysus lads, I know we're all entitled to our opinions and all that but I find the notion of Rooneys career being a disappointment as one of the most baffling debates on here... and that includes the debate on whether Luke Chadwick would have been better than Beckham had he been better looking! :pac:

People feel disappointment he never hit the heights of Messi or Ronaldo, where at a point that appeared to be the trajectory he is on.

But instead of making some logical assessment based in reality, he is just completely written off.

I used to do this, and be hyper critical of Rooney, but I've changed my opinion and thought process with Rooney after debate took place here, and now appreciated what we have, what he is, and what he should be doing.

Just because he isn't in for Balon Dors every year, doesn't mean he isn't good enough.

I genuinelly struggle to think of a striker in world football bar maybe two, who would be an immediately better proposition then Rooney leading our line. I think folks who don't watch enough football outside of England, get some fanciful notion of how foreign strikers are, and just look at their numbers and make a judgement off that

If Rooney was playing in La Liga, or the Bundesliga, he would be busting 25 goals a season with ease. And I mean that, with ease.

Aguero and Suarez are probably the only strikers in world football I'd readily accept would offer substantially more then Rooney.

Hank Scorpio

Adamocovic wrote: »

On his potential. I think some people have very high expectations of what he is or was capable.

Rooney at 16 or 17 was ahead of the two juggernauts in Messi and Ronaldo, he was already built like a man. I don't think he fulfilled his potential, he's been a great player for the club over the years, I'm not discrediting that.

Crimson King

Adamocovic wrote: »

Jaysus lads, I know we're all entitled to our opinions and all that but I find the notion of Rooneys career being a disappointment as one of the most baffling debates on here... and that includes the debate on whether Luke Chadwick would have been better than Beckham had he been better looking! :pac:

Wayne Rooney will be United's and Englands all time top scorer within the next 12 months, yet somehow he has not been an excellent servant. I can agree with people he is not very likable off field (who is really, except Scholesy) but he has been an absolute bargain at £25.5 million.

Maximus Alexander

Adamocovic wrote: »

and that includes the debate on whether Luke Chadwick would have been better than Beckham had he been better looking! :pac:

A true classic. For me it comes in at around number four behind 'Say the line FutureGuy', 'Rafael's Socks' and 'Sign Reus as a CM'.

bangkok

Rooney is a class player, end of.

If Rooney played for another team we would be all raving about him, the fact he plays for us he get criticised.

Im delighted he plays for us and not city or chelsea

Mitch Connor

Coat22 wrote: »

I posted something last week which showed that only once in his United career did he finish top scorer and United won the league (the year him and Ronaldo bagged 34 each)

This tells me (although doubtless I'm wrong) that if United are to win things then they have needed someone else leading the line with Rooney making his contribution playing behind the main striker.

Or the supporting cast in the seasons he was top scoring weren't good enough.

I think your logical leap is not well founded.

Rooney can be top scoring and we can win the league - my concern is if Rooney is injured or suspended, we don't have adequate cover for him.

TheDoc

Coat22 wrote: »

I posted something last week which showed that only once in his United career did he finish top scorer and United won the league (the year him and Ronaldo bagged 34 each)

This tells me (although doubtless I'm wrong) that if United are to win things then they have needed someone else leading the line with Rooney making his contribution playing behind the main striker.

but see that assumes that Rooney wouldn't have done the same thing, if he was in that position.

What also needs to be remembered is that Rooney was deployed elsewhere in the team, taking at least ten games a season of him, where he would be operating a role that was more defensive first and foremost.

A role that Ronaldo, Berbatov, Van Persie, Van Nistelroy, Saha etc. could not perform. So the obvious solution was to move Rooney rather then those, as they could do one job and one job alone.

That is no reflection on Rooney being "worse" then the strikers that were played ahead of him, but reflects on how Rooney was more flexible and provided more options to Ferguson(which he used)

pmasterson95

Coat22 wrote: »

I posted something last week which showed that only once in his United career did he finish top scorer and United won the league (the year him and Ronaldo bagged 34 each)

This tells me (although doubtless I'm wrong) that if United are to win things then they have needed someone else leading the line with Rooney making his contribution playing behind the main striker.

Or maybe that could tell you that only once was the squad not that **** that Rooney had to be shunted all over the place and a settled Rooney is more than capable of scoring.

TheDoc

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Or the supporting cast in the seasons he was top scoring weren't good enough.

I think your logical leap is not well founded.

Rooney can be top scoring and we can win the league - my concern is if Rooney is injured or suspended, we don't have adequate cover for him.

That's a very valid concern and one I share. I'm more concerned when it comes to Rooneys dry spell, which will happen(it always happens) and if there isn't enough firepower to suppliment that.

Rooney firing blanks against the big times will be frustrating enough when you get little chances, but blowing opportunities against the lower half teams and not getting a win, is what would cost a title.

But then does that situation, covering for injury, suspension or dry spell, warrant a splurge on a big name striker, earning big wages, to fill the gaps when Rooney isn't firing?

Thats why I do not and have not believed one iota, that a big name striker is coming in.

The Moldy Gowl

Trilla wrote: »

You in work? Call out to mine if you're not...

Haha. I work until half 4.

Only if I'm the small spoon and tell me the bold boys of the thread won't call me names.

Tugboats

TheDoc wrote: »

If Rooney was playing in La Liga, or the Bundesliga, he would be busting 25 goals a season with ease. And I mean that, with ease.

Aguero and Suarez are probably the only strikers in world football I'd readily accept would offer substantially more then Rooney.

That would make him the 3rd top scorer in Spain and 1st in Germany. Why were no clubs in these leagues interested in him when it looked like he was available?

Mitch Connor

TheDoc wrote: »

But then does that situation, covering for injury, suspension or dry spell, warrant a splurge on a big name striker, earning big wages, to fill the gaps when Rooney isn't firing?

Thats why I do not and have not believed one iota, that a big name striker is coming in.

Which is exactly the reasoning I was using to justify a potential move for Ings, for example. To fulfil the role he is likely going to have at Liverpool now.

Its also why I reckon a player who can play the wide role or through the centre (Muller, Bale, Ronaldo) is who the club really wants - whether they can get them or not.

adox

Adamocovic wrote: »

Jaysus lads, I know we're all entitled to our opinions and all that but I find the notion of Rooneys career being a disappointment as one of the most baffling debates on here... and that includes the debate on whether Luke Chadwick would have been better than Beckham had he been better looking! :pac:

While disappointment may not be the correct word, there is no doubt in my mind that Rooney never reached his full potential. I``m not talking about a 17 year old kid that burst onto the scene and was over hyped. Im talking about a player who, in his early to mid 20s had a season or two where he was being debated alongside Ronaldo and Messi as the best player on the planet. He never sustained that and has fallen back down the pecking order since.

Rooney had all the tools and talent to go on and become one of the greats. I always thought his natural position was a no 10 or at least in a deeper role in a 2 man strike force. He had physicality, pace, vision and a great range of passing and also had a great engine and work rate on him. He had imo the potential to be one of the great players of all time and of those high standards he has fallen short.

He will still go on to become Utds all time goal scorer but there is no doubt in my mind that he just hasnt lived up to his real potential and I dont think that is in any way an outrageous view to hold.