Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015 - Mod Post in OP 23/07

Adamocovic

pmasterson95 wrote: »

It was on Sky Sports that Johnstone was going to ask LVG what was in store before he decides wheter or not to rejoin Preston on loan. I'd like Johnstone head to Preston and just keep Anders for the 12 months

Did well with them on his last spell, would love for him to come back and start getting game time in the league etc if that does happen.

Call me crazy but I would rather Johnstone than Lindegaard as backup.

Tugboats

Mitch Connor wrote: »

So - if the window ended 2 minutes ago, so the current squad was it, no ifs ands or buts, where do you think United would finish in the league?

If your opinion is that they won't win it, what do you think would be required between now and the window actually ending to put us into proper contention for the title?

Me:

3rd, pushing second.

To realistically go for the title I think we need to add a centre back and a goal scoring forward option (not specifically a striker, but a real goal threat to compliment Rooney). If ADM is sold, i'd worry about our creative and attacking threat from central midfield as Herrera is the only CM I would trust with providing that. That said though, ADM didn't pull up trees in that respect last season.

4th with no danger behind us but miles away from Chelsea and City.
To win the title we need two CBs and a Forward

Trigger

Mitch Connor wrote: »

So - if the window ended 2 minutes ago, so the current squad was it, no ifs ands or buts, where do you think United would finish in the league?

If your opinion is that they won't win it, what do you think would be required between now and the window actually ending to put us into proper contention for the title?

Me:

3rd, pushing second.

To realistically go for the title I think we need to add a centre back and a goal scoring forward option (not specifically a striker, but a real goal threat to compliment Rooney). If ADM is sold, i'd worry about our creative and attacking threat from central midfield as Herrera is the only CM I would trust with providing that. That said though, ADM didn't pull up trees in that respect last season.

I think atm we are a commanding centre back and a back up striker away from pushing for the title. but that is only if everything clicks and the players Gel quickly. I agree with ADM and would like to see a flair player come in if he goes.

I really am not worried about the DeGea situation at the moment as I think that we have someone lined up to come in for when it happens (Cillessen perhaps) I would only become worried a bit about the GK position if the CB was not strengthened a bit but i think even the cover the defence would have this year from the DM's makes the GK position a bit less important

JamboMac

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

You realise he's scored as many as Aguero and assisted more ?

Rooneys record for united 479 apps 230 goals every 2.08 games

Ruud van nistelrooy 219 app 150 goals every 1.46 games

Aguero 120 apps 78 goals every 1.53 games

So compare the strikers.

My issue isn't his wages it's his lack of being consistent goal threat.

Mitch Connor

Adamocovic wrote: »

Did well with them on his last spell, would love for him to come back and start getting game time in the league etc if that does happen.

Call me crazy but I would rather Johnstone than Lindegaard as backup.

I would prefer Johnstone to go out on load as the chances are he would get feck all game time as backup to DDG (assuming DDG stays) - another run of actual first team footballer would do him great, and maybe United longer term. Sitting on the bench week in week out won't help him as much, regardless of how good the training might be.

pmasterson95

Adamocovic wrote: »

Did well with them on his last spell, would love for him to come back and start getting game time in the league etc if that does happen.

Call me crazy but I would rather Johnstone than Lindegaard as backup.

Yeah but a full year of matches would help Johnstone more than a year on the bench.

keane2097

Thread is in bits.

Tugboats

Pro. F wrote: »

No we were warned to not soap-box about it.



I wouldn't be so certain that he would score 25+ goals even if he was starting up front. Same as I wouldn't be so certain that Aguero would or RVP in his prime or any other top class EPL striker. But then, 25+ goals is well above the required return for a first choice striker at a team with EPL winning aspirations, so it's an irrelevant metric.

25 isnt my target either its just others have mentioned it

Cookiemunster

JamboMac wrote: »

Rooneys record for united 479 apps 230 goals every 2.08 games

Ruud van nistelrooy 219 app 150 goals every 1.46 games

Aguero 120 apps 78 goals every 1.53 games

So compare the strikers.

My issue isn't his wages it's his lack of being consistent goal threat.

For the millionth time. How many games did Aguero or RVN play in midfield or out on the left wing? You're comparing apples and oranges.

Pro. F

JamboMac wrote: »

Rooneys record for united 479 apps 230 goals every 2.08 games

Ruud van nistelrooy 219 app 150 goals every 1.46 games

Aguero 120 apps 78 goals every 1.53 games

So compare the strikers.

My issue isn't his wages it's his lack of being consistent goal threat.

not scoring as much as Aguero or RVN =/= not a consistent goal threat

And you are also ignoring the fact that Rooney has played all sorts of positions, whereas the other two only play(ed) as strikers.

bangkok

JamboMac wrote: »

Rooneys record for united 479 apps 230 goals every 2.08 games

Ruud van nistelrooy 219 app 150 goals every 1.46 games

Aguero 120 apps 78 goals every 1.53 games

So compare the strikers.

My issue isn't his wages it's his lack of being consistent goal threat.

playing as a striker.... rooney 300 apps 230 goals every 1.30 games......

LEGEND

Adamocovic

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I would prefer Johnstone to go out on load as the chances are he would get feck all game time as backup to DDG (assuming DDG stays) - another run of actual first team footballer would do him great, and maybe United longer term. Sitting on the bench week in week out won't help him as much, regardless of how good the training might be.

pmasterson95 wrote: »

Yeah but a full year of matches would help Johnstone more than a year on the bench.

Yeah that's true, he'd only get cup matches, if Romero does come it would mean even less matches so the loan would be good.

I really hope Johnstone can become a viable option for starter down the line, really like him and think he has the potential to become a very good keeper in the league.

Pro. F

Tugboats wrote: »

25 isnt my target either its just others have mentioned it

You would use it as a stick to beat him with if he scored less.

What is your range of acceptable goal return for a first choice striker at a team looking to win the EPL btw?

Mitch Connor

JamboMac wrote: »

Rooneys record for united 479 apps 230 goals every 2.08 games

Ruud van nistelrooy 219 app 150 goals every 1.46 games

Aguero 120 apps 78 goals every 1.53 games

So compare the strikers.

My issue isn't his wages it's his lack of being consistent goal threat.

Even as big a critic as I am of Rooney, when you post those stats you are doing so not taking into account that Rooney has rarely been the lead forward for the side. He has played midfield and wide, or off the main forward. You have to accept that will effect his scoring stats.

As I say, I am a big critic of him, but I do believe he would have scored more goals if attacks were built around supplying him the ball to score, as they were for RVN and Aguero. Rooney has been charged with being more of a creater, tempo setter and first line of defence than the two players you mention.

He is a different player to them, as been deployed differently to them (to his detriment much of the time) and his goal scoring record reflects that.

I do still question him as a top goalscorer in that I don't think he is as clinical as Aguero or RVN, but his record is very very good when you take account of the context his career provides

jayo26

Just a thought i don't think people realise how our team has been improved over the summer with the four signings.

Last year we lacked a holding midfielder when carrick was missing our results took a nosedive but when he was in the team we had as high a points average as chelsea id say so we have gone and bought two of the best we could buy that can play in that position.

We lacked pace upfront so we bought depay i really think he will transform the attack.

We were playing with a winger at right back so we bought a pretty decent right back.

Sure we don't have every position covered but i think we have closed the gap on chelsea to be very close to them and apart from aguero id say we are equal enough to city and maybe stronger in other places.

Still a long time to go in window but im alot more positive city or chelsea havent done much to be afraid of and neither have arsenal.

Pro. F

bangkok wrote: »

playing as a striker.... rooney 300 apps 230 goals every 1.30 games......

LEGEND

Where have you got that from? Would be a good laugh if true.

RayCun

JamboMac wrote: »

Rooneys record for united 479 apps 230 goals every 2.08 games

Ruud van nistelrooy 219 app 150 goals every 1.46 games

Aguero 120 apps 78 goals every 1.53 games

So compare the strikers.

My issue isn't his wages it's his lack of being consistent goal threat.

But he hasn't been played as a striker all that time!

479 appearances 230 goals 119 assists

JamboMac

Cookiemunster wrote: »

For the millionth time. How many games did Aguero or RVN play in midfield or out on the left wing? You're comparing apples and oranges.

How many did Rooney? Unless you can realistically say 100+ of those wasn't as part of the front 2, I think his he was played out of position is a weak argument as their isn't any stats I've seen how many times he played on the left wing or midfield.

He was moved around more for England then United.

Tugboats

Pro. F wrote: »

You would use it as a stick to beat him with if he scored less.

What is your range of acceptable goal return for a first choice striker at a team looking to win the EPL btw?

I have a bet with someone here that if he scores 20PL goals I will pay for him to go to Old Trafford. I think 20 PL goals is achievable for a top striker but Rooney will not score 20 PL goals this season

pmasterson95

Adamocovic wrote: »

Yeah that's true, he'd only get cup matches, if Romero does come it would mean even less matches so the loan would be good.

I really hope Johnstone can become a viable option for starter down the line, really like him and think he has the potential to become a very good keeper in the league.

I'd be encouraging him to go on loan. Like Fosters time at Watford. Guaranteed #1 goalkeeper beats back up all day long.

pmasterson95

Whoops silly me talking about Johnstone. Lunchbreaks over back to Rooney.

Trigger

Tugboats wrote: »

I have a bet with someone here that if he scores 20PL goals I will pay for him to go to Old Trafford. I think 20 PL goals is achievable for a top striker but Rooney will not score 20 PL goals this season

If he scores 25 will you send me to a European game?

worth a shot:P

DM_7

galwaylad14 wrote: »

Ah if it isn't the official Manchester United accountant?

Let's be honest, you haven't a clue how that deal is structured in terms of installments.

And I'm sure that Di Maria was earning a bit more than the living wajge while he's been at united? Could be another 10 million given to him in wages in the last year. And then there's his loyalty bonus, could be another couple of million.

None of us actually have a clue what that deal has cost Man U but I'd say it's a fraction more than your calculations

Weird post. Scoffing at another post as nobody on here knows the financials then outlining why their financials could be wrong.

Pro. F

Mitch Connor wrote: »

So - if the window ended 2 minutes ago, so the current squad was it, no ifs ands or buts, where do you think United would finish in the league?

If your opinion is that they won't win it, what do you think would be required between now and the window actually ending to put us into proper contention for the title?

Me:

3rd, pushing second.

To realistically go for the title I think we need to add a centre back and a goal scoring forward option (not specifically a striker, but a real goal threat to compliment Rooney). If ADM is sold, i'd worry about our creative and attacking threat from central midfield as Herrera is the only CM I would trust with providing that. That said though, ADM didn't pull up trees in that respect last season.

Honestly even if we knew there would be no more transfers in or out it is still too early to say imo. Equally as important as who the players are is how they play together. And we wouldn't really know about that for a few more months. It's not like when SAF was in charge and we knew what the team would be doing and roughly how they all perform each season.

keane2097

If someone went to the trouble of verifying Rooney's goals per minute ratio when playing up front I'd be shocked if his number wasn't at least comparable to the likes of Aguerro & RVP.

If you don't rate Rooney I feel bad for you son.

Pro. F

Tugboats wrote: »

I have a bet with someone here that if he scores 20PL goals I will pay for him to go to Old Trafford. I think 20 PL goals is achievable for a top striker but Rooney will not score 20 PL goals this season

Interesting, but that's not what I asked. What is your range of acceptable goal return for a first choice striker at a team looking to win the EPL?

Mitch Connor

JamboMac wrote: »

How many did Rooney? Unless you can realistically say 100+ of those wasn't as part of the front 2, I think his he was played out of position is a weak argument as their isn't any stats I've seen how many times he played on the left wing or midfield.

He was moved around more for England then United.

Even if it was part of a front two, his tactical role in the side would be to drop deeper than the other forward and become more of a part of the build up. That very simple fact immediately points to why his goal scoring stats would suffer - because he isn't the point of the attack, and the point of the attack will get more goals most of the time.

Tactically, Rooney has been deployed in a way that has taken him further away from goal - that doesn't mean he couldn't score if tactically he was forced to be closer to it.

It is a very simple concept.

Yes - he hasn't scored as many as other players, but there are good reasons for that.

I still don't think he is as good a finisher as Aguero or RVN, and I would swap him for Aguero happily to be honest, but just using base stats to beat him with is a stupid angle to take as it ignores too much.

Alf Veedersane

Mitch Connor wrote: »

So - if the window ended 2 minutes ago, so the current squad was it, no ifs ands or buts, where do you think United would finish in the league?

If your opinion is that they won't win it, what do you think would be required between now and the window actually ending to put us into proper contention for the title?

Me:

3rd, pushing second.

To realistically go for the title I think we need to add a centre back and a goal scoring forward option (not specifically a striker, but a real goal threat to compliment Rooney). If ADM is sold, i'd worry about our creative and attacking threat from central midfield as Herrera is the only CM I would trust with providing that. That said though, ADM didn't pull up trees in that respect last season.

Same as that - 3rd pushing for second.

I think there's enough dynamism in the midfield and attack to create space that would end up in a greater spread of goals rather than Rooney being depended on to score the goals.

Tugboats

keane2097 wrote: »

If someone went to the trouble of verifying Rooney's goals per minute ratio when playing up front I'd be shocked if his number wasn't at least comparable to the likes of Aguerro & RVP.

If you don't rate Rooney I feel bad for you son.

Theres no need to verify anything. The midfield is sorted and it looks like Rooney will be playing up top this season. We are going to see it happen

bangkok

Pro. F wrote: »

Where have you got that from? Would be a good laugh if true.

ah just made it up. its impossible to calculate. How many times has rooney played centre midfield, attacking midfielder, defensive midfielder, wide right, wide left, move during games from striker position to midfield, impossible to tell.

What I can tell you is I don't ever remember aguero or rvn ever playing a game in midfield/wing

RobbingBandit

Has Sergio Romero signed or is he still even being chased up to sign, would be great cover to have, bloody great keeper.

Cantona's Collars

Le10 Sport claiming PSG are due to bid €125 million for Ronnie.

kippy

JamboMac wrote: »

Rooneys record for united 479 apps 230 goals every 2.08 games

Ruud van nistelrooy 219 app 150 goals every 1.46 games

Aguero 120 apps 78 goals every 1.53 games

So compare the strikers.

My issue isn't his wages it's his lack of being consistent goal threat.

That's a fair enough stat to use if Rooney always played in the same position as Ruud and Aguero.

Pro. F

JamboMac wrote: »

How many did Rooney? Unless you can realistically say 100+ of those wasn't as part of the front 2, I think his he was played out of position is a weak argument as their isn't any stats I've seen how many times he played on the left wing or midfield.

He was moved around more for England then United.

Playing as the number 10 behind a goal scoring CF or moving around to accommodate and cover for a Ronaldo is not the same as playing in a front pair with equal opportunity (like we saw with Suarez and Sturridge for a short while for example). Aguero and RVN almost exclusively played in teams where they were the furthest forward, with little responsibility to create for others ahead of getting into goal scoring positions themselves.

Bleating Lamb

With Man City splashing out to up their quotient of 'home grown players'....where do Utd stand under the criteria?

Are we a sale or two away from being in trouble?

jayo26

bangkok wrote: »

ah just made it up. its impossible to calculate. How many times has rooney played centre midfield, attacking midfielder, defensive midfielder, wide right, wide left, move during games from striker position to midfield, impossible to tell.

What I can tell you is I don't ever remember aguero or rvn ever playing a game in midfield/wing

here you go nothings impossible haha

this is taken from who scored it is not fully accurate as it does not show fa cup and league cup but it is epl and champs league from o9/10 season onwards and it dont look half bad he is better then one in 2 games. it shows him as striker and cam just behing striker.




In the Same period aguero has scored 130 in 233 games.

ElChe32

Don't make me tap the sign.

Mitch Connor

zerks wrote: »

Le10 Sport claiming PSG are due to bid €125 million for Ronnie.

Would be interesting if they did because I would be totally shocked if Ronaldo was to move from Madrid and United didn't do everything possible to bring him back to Old Trafford.

Also, given the choice between PSG and United, Ronnie would pick United imo - because any achievements with United, in England, would be considered greater than similar in France.

JamboMac

keane2097 wrote: »

If someone went to the trouble of verifying Rooney's goals per minute ratio when playing up front I'd be shocked if his number wasn't at least comparable to the likes of Aguerro & RVP.

If you don't rate Rooney I feel bad for you son.

I'd say solskjaer would probably beat them easily but he was never our main striker or a player we depended on to score all the goals, I rate Rooney as a player but not as consistent goalscorer.

If we don get a top class striker during the summer their will be a mad scramble in January for one.

Adamocovic

Tugboats wrote: »

I have a bet with someone here that if he scores 20PL goals I will pay for him to go to Old Trafford. I think 20 PL goals is achievable for a top striker but Rooney will not score 20 PL goals this season

Would you be interested in a bet? :pac:

Would be a bit of craic. If Rooney scores 20 or more PL goals you buy me my choice of United kit from the 2015/2016 season with Rooneys name and number on the back, if he fails to do so I will buy you your choice of united kit from the 2015/2016 season with a name and number of your choice on the back.

Only rule is he plays atleast 27 games this season in the PL (he's never played less in a United season)

I'm not overerly confident he will do it but would be a bit of fun for the year :P

Interested?

Giggsy11

JamboMac wrote: »

Rooneys record for united 479 apps 230 goals every 2.08 games

Ruud van nistelrooy 219 app 150 goals every 1.46 games

Aguero 120 apps 78 goals every 1.53 games

So compare the strikers.

My issue isn't his wages it's his lack of being consistent goal threat.

Those stats don't tell full story.

As many said, Rooney was played in all sorts of positions. Also what this ignores is age. Rooney stats are worse as he played as a 18 year old who was still improving, whereas Aguero played for City when he was 23 as bit more developed player and RVN as a 25 year old, fully developed player.

If I use Rooney's stats from age 23-27- 213 games, 120 goals. 1.7 matches per game and this is by playing in all sort of position.

From 25-29, his stats are worse. 197 games, 99 goals. 1.9 games per goal. Again in this period he was played all over the park and played second fiddle to RVP and many games in midfield.

Also this stats have one drawback, Rooney had years of experience in PL but Aguero, RVN had none.

Tugboats

Pro. F wrote: »

Interesting, but that's not what I asked. What is your range of acceptable goal return for a first choice striker at a team looking to win the EPL?

18-20 goals in a title winning team i would be happy. Im not as demanding as most fans on here. We will have goals coming from others on the pitch so we don't need one man to score all the goals. Sadly Rooney wont contribute his fair share so we should be looking elsewhere

Lord TSC

zerks wrote: »

Le10 Sport claiming PSG are due to bid €125 million for Ronnie.

Is it a "Give us Di Maria, or so help us God, we'll take Ronaldo and never let ye have him" bid? :pac:

Tugboats

Adamocovic wrote: »

Would you be interested in a bet? :pac:

Would be a bit of craic. If Rooney scores 20 or more PL goals you buy me my choice of United kit from the 2015/2016 season with Rooneys name and number on the back, if he fails to do so I will buy you your choice of united kit from the 2015/2016 season with a name and number of your choice on the back.

Only rule is he plays atleast 27 games this season in the PL (he's never played less in a United season)

I'm not overerly confident he will do it but would be a bit of fun for the year :P

Interested?

I have no interest in the excuses about injuries, suspensions or being played out of position. He scores 20PL goals or he doesnt

jayo26

Tugboats wrote: »

18-20 goals in a title winning team i would be happy. Im not as demanding as most fans on here. We will have goals coming from others on the pitch so we don't need one man to score all the goals. Sadly Rooney wont contribute his fair share so we should be looking elsewhere

Nonsense he will easily get over 20 goals if he is played up front.

Tugboats

jayo26 wrote: »

Nonsense he will easily get over 20 goals if he is played up front.

we're going to find out this season

pmasterson95

Adamocovic wrote: »

Would you be interested in a bet? :pac:

Would be a bit of craic. If Rooney scores 20 or more PL goals you buy me my choice of United kit from the 2015/2016 season with Rooneys name and number on the back, if he fails to do so I will buy you your choice of united kit from the 2015/2016 season with a name and number of your choice on the back.

Only rule is he plays atleast 27 games this season in the PL (he's never played less in a United season)

I'm not overerly confident he will do it but would be a bit of fun for the year :P

Interested?

Make it 16/17 sure 15/16 will be over

JamboMac

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Those stats don't tell full story.

As many said, Rooney was played in all sorts of positions. Also what this ignores is age. Rooney stats are worse as he played as a 18 year old who was still improving, whereas Aguero played for City when he was 23 as bit more developed player and RVN as a 25 year old, fully developed player.

If I use Rooney's stats from age 23-27- 213 games, 120 goals. 1.7 matches per game and this is by playing in all sort of position.

From 25-29, his stats are worse. 197 games, 99 goals. 1.9 games per goal. Again in this period he was played all over the park and played second fiddle to RVP and many games in midfield.

Also this stats have one drawback, Rooney had years of experience in PL but Aguero, RVN had none.

See there is no real stat of how many times he was played out of position and probably in all his United carreer probably close to 30-50 or maybe Just under. I see that out position excuse as no real argument.

Let's just agree some think he'll 25+ the rest of us need him to convince us.

jayo26

JamboMac wrote: »

See there is no real stat of how many times he was played out of position and probably in all his United carreer probably close to 30-50 or maybe Just under. I see that out position excuse as no real argument.

Let's just agree some think he'll 25+ the rest of us need him to convince us.

I posted it above when he is played as a striker or cf his goalscoring stats are a match for aguero its easy to work out if you look for it.

Pro. F

JamboMac wrote: »

See there is no real stat of how many times he was played out of position and probably in all his United carreer probably close to 30-50 or maybe Just under. I see that out position excuse as no real argument.

Let's just agree some think he'll 25+ the rest of us need him to convince us.

He has played a hell of a lot more than 50 games in positions other than the furthest forward striker where Aguero and RVN have played the majority of their careers. You are still talking as if playing number 10 behind a more advanced striker is the same as playing as the more advanced striker. It is obviously not.