Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015 - Mod Post in OP 23/07

MythicalMadMan

LVG being LVG has me thinking once we dont sign another CB that it will be Rojo or Blind partnering Jones in 2 weeks. Hopefully it will be Rojo.

223vmax

Alf Veedersane

eamondunphy wrote: »

Mcnair will never be good enough

If it's even possible, could you elaborate on why you believe that to be the case.

Alf Veedersane

MythicalMadMan wrote: »

LVG being LVG has me thinking once we dont sign another CB that it will be Rojo or Blind partnering Jones in 2 weeks. Hopefully it will be Rojo.

Blind won't be pressed into service as a CB unless very few alternatives and certainly not over Rojo when both are fit.

Rayne Wooney

Seeing the words Jones and Rojo paired makes me nervous

py2006

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Seeing the words Jones and Rojo paired makes me nervous

Is Rojo likely to be playing? He has missed the pre-season games.

Cantona's Collars

What will help our defence is the fact we now have decent DM options,before all we had was Carrick who despite being good at reading a game could be taken out of the equation with 2 or 3 passes around him.Our back 4 was left exposed at times,this might happen less this season now we have an actual midfield.

paulbok

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Philip Buckingham ‏@PJBuckingham 6m6 minutes ago


Not a bad price for ManUtd academy graduate. He was signed by Hull for just 300K.

I wonder is there a sell on clause that will see some of that come back to United?

homerjay2005

i hope that this latest rumour is either a - bulls*it or b - its a stance from the club that is using the Media to drive down Valencias price for Otamendi.

i still think that if Valencia lower their price, United will sign him as the message seems to be that the club believes he wants to sign for United.

Cantona's Collars

homerjay2005 wrote: »

i hope that this latest rumour is either a - bulls*it or b - its a stance from the club that is using the Media to drive down Valencias price for Otamendi.

i still think that if Valencia lower their price, United will sign him as the message seems to be that the club believes he wants to sign for United.

Could be the case,God forbid we end up enduring another season of watching Evans allow simple long balls sail over his head then stand like an eejit watching strikers run past him.
Having a decent midfield helps the defence but there's nothing they can do when our defenders do stupid shit.

BTW,Rojo has been fined 2 weeks wages:He allowed his passport expire and wasn't allowed on the plane from Argentina.

MisterAnarchy

zerks wrote: »

£52 million would be good business,IIRC the price we paid included add-ons and bonuses which surely never kicked in so we wouldn't be losing any money.

£52m is higher than the £45m reported elsewhere.
Di Maria joined United for €75m (plus up to a further €15m based on performances and bonuses, which won't be reached). That €75m amounted to £59.7m at the time. Given the weakening of the Euro, the €63m United will get back adds up to an even £45 million.

For United, whose accounts are in pounds sterling, that's a hefty £14.7m loss. Throw in agent fees and Di Maria's salary (ca. £14.5m) and the total cost of his 11 months and 1,997 minutes on the pitch isn't far off $50m.

Liam O

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Seeing the words Jones and Rojo paired makes me nervous

Why? Both good defenders.

Adamcp898

Can't help but think that all this talk of a stronger CM making up for the short comings of the back four will still amount to sweet FA against the big teams.

Liam O

zerks wrote: »

Could be the case,God forbid we end up enduring another season of watching Evans allow simple long balls sail over his head then stand like an eejit watching strikers run past him.
Having a decent midfield helps the defence but there's nothing they can do when our defenders do stupid shit.

BTW,Rojo has been fined 2 weeks wages:He allowed his passport expire and wasn't allowed on the plane from Argentina.

Evans played very few games last season and United had a greater than 50% CS average with him in the side, can't have been all bad.

Mantis Toboggan

Liam O wrote: »

Why? Both good defenders.

Define "good" ?

Giggsy11

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

£52m is higher than the £45m reported elsewhere.
Di Maria joined United for €75m (plus up to a further €15m based on performances and bonuses, which won't be reached). That €75m amounted to £59.7m at the time. Given the weakening of the Euro, the €63m United will get back adds up to an even £45 million.

For United, whose accounts are in pounds sterling, that's a hefty £14.7m loss. Throw in agent fees and Di Maria's salary (ca. £14.5m) and the total cost of his 11 months and 1,997 minutes on the pitch isn't far off $50m.

But we haven't paid 59Million pounds to Madrid yet. It will be paid in installments so weakening Euro means losses are lesser than what it reported.

duffman13

We need another cb, I'm not too worried about Jones or Smalling but Rojo genuinely worries me when he plays. He wasn't great last season and got roasted a couple of times in the Copa, fine for back up cb/lb but isn't a first reamer for me.

Smalling looked good at the back end of the season and Jones was decent in my opinion just needs to control himself a bit more.

Evans had a shocking year, this time last year he was LVGs first choice along with most fans but he has gone to crap in the last 12 months

McNair doesn't fill me with confidence at cb and hasn't really played that many games in that spot, Blackett looked strong in a couple of games but had a couple of bad ones and I doubt he would have made the breakthrough under Fergie who seems to have had a good eye for a cb.

Bruce, Pallister, Rio, Vida, Stam, Irwin and Evra were all excellent signings which is why I have a bit of faith in Jones and Smalling. Fergie always had a good eye for defenders.

Liam O

Adamcp898 wrote: »

Can't help but think that all this talk of a stronger CM making up for the short comings of the back four will still amount to sweet FA against the big teams.

United had a very good record against the big teams last season with those lads in defense so unsure why you'd think that. It was inability to score against the smaller teams that was the main weakness.

Nalz

duffman13 wrote: »

Bruce, Pallister, Rio, Vida, Stam, Irwin and Evra were all excellent signings which is why I have a bit of faith in Jones and Smalling. Fergie always had a good eye for defenders.

Those players you mention were established or older than Jones and Smalling... easier to buy established \ proven players imo

sigmundv

MisterAnarchy wrote:

For United, whose accounts are in pounds sterling, that's a hefty £14.7m loss. Throw in agent fees and Di Maria's salary (ca. £14.5m) and the total cost of his 11 months and 1,997 minutes on the pitch isn't far off $50m.

A good illustration of how expensive it is to run a football club on this level. You will end up taking risks that don't pay off.

duffman13

Adamcp898 wrote: »

Can't help but think that all this talk of a stronger CM making up for the short comings of the back four will still amount to sweet FA against the big teams.

We didn't look woeful at the back against the bigger sides last year, Schneiderlin and Schweinsteiger offer real protection to the back four. You only need to look at the impact Matic had for Chelsea last year. Schneiderlin alone should sure us up in midfield making our defenders less vulnerable

Lord TSC

Liam O wrote: »

United had a very good record against the big teams last season with those lads in defense so unsure why you'd think that. It was inability to score against the smaller teams that was the main weakness.

Yeah, we were constantly top of the "Top 6/7/8 head to head" tables if I remember right.

Was trying to search for the final results. Best I could find was...



Thats with 9 of 10 games played. 10th game may have changed things up though, but can't find anything.

EDIT: From what I can see, we drew with Arsenal in our last game. Chelsea drew with Liverpool. So we actually did finish top of that "Top 6 head to head league".

Johner

Irishcrx wrote: »

Yeah I like him as well , good finisher , strong , good touch , pacey enough and I've seen him play more than one lovely cutting pass through defences as well. I think LVG would like him a lot. If he was happy to play 2nd striker for a season or two to Rooney maybe get 20 games a season or so with a few to becoming numero uno when Rooney is on the wane or gone.

One thing Lukaku doesn't have is a good first touch. Lukaku won't be happy being second fiddle, that's why he didn't stay at Chelsea so I can't see him going to United for that reason.

MythicalMadMan

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Blind won't be pressed into service as a CB unless very few alternatives and certainly not over Rojo when both are fit.

I'm going on limited info alright but LVG stuck with his system from pre season last year and will most likely do the same this year.

He has mentioned that the team that played 60mins via barcelona are most likely to start.

When we played 4 at the back last year smalling played RCB when available or when picked. LCB was shared among Rojo, Jones, Evans and maybe a guest appearance for Carrick and Blind but I think they only played when we had 3 at the back.

As Homer said hopefully the rumours are Bull and we sign someone I just wouldnt be surprised to see Jones/Rojo or Jones/Blind

Liam O

Not sure where this hating on Rojo is coming from? He was the best defender by far in the first half of the season last year. That's not saying much as the other 3 were injured/shìte but he was a shining light. People are underestimating ability on the ball a lot which in a system like LVG's is hugely important and I'd rate the 4 of them Rojo-Evans-Jones-Smalling in descending order on that.

homerjay2005

Lord TSC wrote: »

Yeah, we were constantly top of the "Top 6/7/8 head to head" tables if I remember right.

Was trying to search for the final results. Best I could find was...



Thats with 9 of 10 games played. 10th game may have changed things up though, but can't find anything.

we did fine last year against teams who came out and played against us. however, the reason our season was so poor last year was that we could not break down the dross of the league who went 11 behind the ball and that problem will still remain this year i fear as yet, we have not signed a player who can create a moment of magic to unlock a packed box.

maybe Memphis can be that player, but i think we need more creativity. if we have Young, Daley Blind, Fellani, Valencia in the same team, we will have the same season again.

Nalz

Liam O wrote: »

Not sure where this hating on Rojo is coming from? He was the best defender by far in the first half of the season last year. That's not saying much as the other 3 were injured/shìte but he was a shining light. People are underestimating ability on the ball a lot which in a system like LVG's is hugely important and I'd rate the 4 of them Rojo-Evans-Jones-Smalling in descending order on that.

you have Smalling as our worst CB? wtf!

Mitch Connor

as Homer says, hopefully the rumours are bull.

If we dont sign a top class CB and a top class forward player, we are consigning ourselves to another poor season, and all the good work done prior to the US tour will basically amount to nothing, because we won't change or fortunes much.

magnumbud

Liam O wrote: »

Not sure where this hating on Rojo is coming from? He was the best defender by far in the first half of the season last year. That's not saying much as the other 3 were injured/shìte but he was a shining light. People are underestimating ability on the ball a lot which in a system like LVG's is hugely important and I'd rate the 4 of them Rojo-Evans-Jones-Smalling in descending order on that.

its an Argentine witch hunt :pac:

Adamcp898

Liam O wrote: »

United had a very good record against the big teams last season with those lads in defense so unsure why you'd think that. It was inability to score against the smaller teams that was the main weakness.

duffman13 wrote: »

We didn't look woeful at the back against the bigger sides last year, Schneiderlin and Schweinsteiger offer real protection to the back four. You only need to look at the impact Matic had for Chelsea last year. Schneiderlin alone should sure us up in midfield making our defenders less vulnerable

I'd venture to say that that was as a result of taking direct measures to protect our defensive vulnerabilities against the big teams which in turn reduced freedom in other positions and our playing style.

If we have aspirations this season to be more free flowing in our possession then it will expose our back four to the quality of the big teams and atm it won't stand up all that well.

duffman13

Liam O wrote: »

Not sure where this hating on Rojo is coming from? He was the best defender by far in the first half of the season last year. That's not saying much as the other 3 were injured/shìte but he was a shining light. People are underestimating ability on the ball a lot which in a system like LVG's is hugely important and I'd rate the 4 of them Rojo-Evans-Jones-Smalling in descending order on that.

And for me I'd be almost the complete opposite, Smalling - Jones - Rojo - Evans. I think Smalling is the most natural defender on the list and is very good on the ball. Rojo has been shaky at times for United and Argentina and has made a lot of mistakes which luckily didnt cost a goal. I was happy when he signed but he needs to step up his form for the last 9 months

Nalz

Mitch Connor wrote: »

as Homer says, hopefully the rumours are bull.

If we dont sign a top class CB and a top class forward player, we are consigning ourselves to another poor season, and all the good work done prior to the US tour will basically amount to nothing, because we won't change or fortunes much.

I agree. We'll improve on last season but it still won't be enough to mount a title challenge imo

duffman13

homerjay2005 wrote: »

we did fine last year against teams who came out and played against us. however, the reason our season was so poor last year was that we could not break down the dross of the league who went 11 behind the ball and that problem will still remain this year i fear as yet, we have not signed a player who can create a moment of magic to unlock a packed box.

maybe Memphis can be that player, but i think we need more creativity. if we have Young, Daley Blind, Fellani, Valencia in the same team, we will have the same season again.

I think Blind and Fellaini will be bit part players next season, Valencia hopefully the back up to Darmian. Young deserves his game time if he gets it, really good last season and deserves his place on form

Liam O

Trilla wrote: »

you have Smalling as our worst CB? wtf!

On the ball yes.

I don't know overall, I'd have him, Jones and Evans on a similar standing behind Rojo. One or 2 of them will hopefully step up.

Lord TSC

duffman13 wrote: »

I think Blind and Fellaini will be bit part players next season, Valencia hopefully the back up to Darmian. Young deserves his game time if he gets it, really good last season and deserves his place on form

I'd agree about Blind, Fel and Val; the latter two were relegated to the B team on preseason (actually, did Fel get any game time?), and Blind is filling in for Rojo presumably.

Young is good form, but we need better.

I'd agree our problem is our creativity against teams who park the bus, but luckily, LVG seems to know that, given his recent interview. Would be shocked if we don't see a top level creative player brought in before the close of the window.

Nalz

Lord TSC wrote: »

I'd agree about Blind, Fel and Val; the latter two were relegated to the B team on preseason (actually, did Fel get any game time?).

Fellaini came on against Barca

5starpool

When is the draw on for the final CL qualifying round?

MisterAnarchy

duffman13 wrote: »

And for me I'd be almost the complete opposite, Smalling - Jones - Rojo - Evans. I think Smalling is the most natural defender on the list and is very good on the ball. Rojo has been shaky at times for United and Argentina and has made a lot of mistakes which luckily didnt cost a goal. I was happy when he signed but he needs to step up his form for the last 9 months

Of the four centre backs Rojo is by far the best on the ball ,the other 3 are average to poor ball players.

How many times last season did the opposition fall back and allow Smalling and Jones room to come up the pitch yet the two boys were unable to take advantage .
They'd just keep passing the ball sideways and back .

Adamocovic

Lord TSC wrote: »

I'd agree about Blind, Fel and Val; the latter two were relegated to the B team on preseason (actually, did Fel get any game time?), and Blind is filling in for Rojo presumably.

Young is good form, but we need better.

I'd agree our problem is our creativity against teams who park the bus, but luckily, LVG seems to know that, given his recent interview. Would be shocked if we don't see a top level creative player brought in before the close of the window.

Yeah got 40 mins against Barca, but that was it. Plus has the match bans anyway at the start of the season.

Nalz

Liam O wrote: »

On the ball yes.

I don't know overall, I'd have him, Jones and Evans on a similar standing behind Rojo. One or 2 of them will hopefully step up.

Fair enough, I disagree. There's always the f*ck-up in Evans in every game he plays. I'm not saying Smalling is perfect but I think he's more composed on the ball and has similar defensive ability

bucketybuck

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

If it's even possible, could you elaborate on why you believe that to be the case.

I actually agree with him. I think McNair just has too much variance in his performances to be considered a top quality prospect. Its not very often you see a player taken off in the first half of a Premier league game for being a complete liability but thats happened a few times with McNair now, and a top level defender simply cannot afford that level of inconsistency.

If you have a top class prospect you will stick with them when they make the inevitable mistake, thats all part of the process. But there are times when McNair isn't just making a few mistakes while playing solidly, but is completely and utterly awful on the pitch. Thats very worrying to me.

He has some quality, but I'm just not seeing enough that a club with Champions league ambitions should be sticking with him in a hope that he will improve.

Tippex

5starpool wrote: »

When is the draw on for the final CL qualifying round?

7th August http://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/season=2016/competitionformat/index.html

Jayop

I remember him being taken off in the first half in one game where he was physically bullied but that was the only time I remember.

The header he made vs West Ham in the game Rooney got sent off tells me the lad has potential. He's also bulked up over the summer. For me he's a top prospect and strong on the ball.

Giggsy11

Btw, today we have Fenerbahce vs Shakhtar.

Jayop

I also don't think we've ever lost a game that smalling and Jones played together at cb but I'm open to correction.

Mitch Connor

The big problem with our defenders is that there isn't a leader amongst them - that is what we need(ed) to add this summer, and failure to do so will result in more shambolic defending no matter which of the 4 you pick, because as a unit they become to easily led by the oppo forwards rather than controlling the situation themselves.

As individuals I actually like Smalling, Jones and Rojo - and with a leader to settle them and position them, they can be excellent CB partners, but none of them have shown capability of leading the defense.

If LVG is happy with our options, then the discussion of him having a poor juedgement of CBs looks to be well founded, and we will probably be in a battle for 4th because of it - no matter what forward player we get (and I don't think it is going to be anyone to be too excited about).

adox

Lukakau would be an extremely underwhelming signing. Hopefully theres nothing in it.

Impossible to predict which way the window will go now. We could end up losing De Gea and Di Maria without any replacements or could hang on to De Gea(Di Maria is gone imo)and sign a top attacking player. Hopefully a CB too but I fear we made end up with no CB signing which would be a disaster.

Jayop

Mitch Connor wrote: »

The big problem with our defenders is that there isn't a leader amongst them - that is what we need(ed) to add this summer, and failure to do so will result in more shambolic defending no matter which of the 4 you pick, because as a unit they become to easily led by the oppo forwards rather than controlling the situation themselves.

As individuals I actually like Smalling, Jones and Rojo - and with a leader to settle them and position them, they can be excellent CB partners, but none of them have shown capability of leading the defense.

If LVG is happy with our options, then the discussion of him having a poor juedgement of CBs looks to be well founded, and we will probably be in a battle for 4th because of it - no matter what forward player we get (and I don't think it is going to be anyone to be too excited about).

In a terrible season destroyed by injuries to our defence we still only conceded 5 more than Chelsea, one less than city and one more than arsenal.

Our problems last year were all midfield, attack and that stupid 3 at the back at the start of the season.

MythicalMadMan

LVG mentioned in some press conference Fellaini not being played was mainly down to his suspension, nut then Schweinstiger got injured so he was on the bench. You can only have 22 players in the match day squad for this champions cup thingy.

MythicalMadMan

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Btw, today we have Fenerbahce vs Shakhtar.

Do you know if its being shown anywhere on a english speaking channel?