Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015 - Mod Post in OP 23/07

py2006

Rossi IRL wrote: »

That would be the preferred team for most people i reckon.

Defence still fairly weak though don't ya think?

Lord TSC

homerjay2005 wrote: »

that Benzema thing is really really weird, looks like he is leaving Real and is about to sign for somebody else, unless he is on the wind up..


thoughts???

Over on R/Soccer, there was two things pointed out; one is there's talks he has a minor injury so is flying home while the rest of the team continue their pre-season. The other is there's rumours that Rihanna has been messing round on him, and the "lets move on" attitude is about that.

magnumbud

bren2001 wrote: »

No, those are the current rankings. The draw is made based on the end of season 2014/2015 ranking. We will be in pot 2 assuming we qualify.

oh praise the sun

we certainly want to avoid pot 3 and end up in similar situations as city have in previous seasons

ericzeking

Fenix wrote: »

This is the quote I was referring to;



Source

Admittedly I didn't see the quote about the team that started against Barcelona, hope Darmian does indeed get the nod, looks very good for what little I've seen.

I think this is also being taken literally and may be misinterpreted, the way LVG says things in his Dutch English is often peculiar, he was talking about having 2 players for every position. He had one right back so he needed another to fill "the second position", not neccessarily first or second choice....that's the way I would look at it anyway....but I do think he will start the season with Valencia.

The way he says stuff leads a lot of people and a lot of the media to get carried away with themselves unneccessarily imo....like people have gone nuts on the 'surprise striker' thing but in the interview he said that at the end of listing his options up front, it sounded a bit throw away to me...

Nalz

Pro. F wrote: »

Were ye too shy to express your opinion on Evans when he was playing regularly? Or did he suddenly become a completely different quality of player when Van Gaal came in and knocked him down the pecking order?

I genuinely thought that Evans wasn't really popular for a good while now... he was frequently knocked, in some cases harshly. I know from my season ticket days in OT that he was never flavour of the month. You' hear the phrase "Jonny F*cking Evans" and the likes around the place. I'm sure I've seen constant rants and knock downs across the internet over the years.

He's what 27 or 28 yrs ol now? He's not the young promising centre back with potential anymore. I never was his big fan and just hoped every year he'd come good and step up to the plate to the standard that we required.

ericzeking

I also would not be surprised if Blind was used a lot at CH....reads the game well, ball player, quick enough, left sided...height could be an issue but we have added Schneiderlin for set pieces as well as having Fellaini and the other centre back who would be on the pitch.

Trond

ericzeking wrote: »

I also would not be surprised if Blind was used a lot at CH....reads the game well, ball player, quick enough, left sided...height could be an issue but we have added Schneiderlin for set pieces as well as having Fellaini and the other centre back who would be on the pitch.

:eek:

TheDoc

Pro. F wrote: »

I've never rated Evans very highly - he was always below first team quality for me - but it's laughable how many people there are completely writing him off now compared to what was going on up to the start of last season. Where were all of you before LVG came on the scene? Were ye too shy to express your opinion on Evans when he was playing regularly? Or did he suddenly become a completely different quality of player when Van Gaal came in and knocked him down the pecking order?

Pretty sure I've been pretty clear on where I stand with Evans, bar a little spell, when he was excellent, where I voiced my opinion might need to change.

I've also been clear that my dislike for him might be bias, since I just hate his stupid looking face

ericzeking

Trond wrote: »

:eek:

For centre half ya

Nalz

TheDoc wrote: »

I've also been clear that my dislike for him might be bias, since I just hate his stupid looking face

lol... we're not all blessed with that Pacey from dawson creek looks that you possess Doc #ride

TheDoc

Pro. F wrote: »

Would you not consider the change from 4141 with three central midfielders, that we were playing at the back end of last season, to the 4231/4411, with two central midfielders and Memphis playing behind Rooney, that we've been playing this preseason, a massive tactical shift?

I would say that it is very likely that LVG's plans now don't include Herrera in the first team. I'd also say it is very likely that Herrera was never a Van Gaal purchase and he only played Herrera so much in the back half of last season because nothing else had worked up to that point and he was stuck.

Something not sitting right with me about the way we have lined up this pre-season. He can't go through another massive tactical shift, unless he is just adding some depth to the shapes the team can play. Possible he want sto go the 4-2-3-1 route against Totenham, a tricky away game ,and why its featuring so much.

but I expect in most games for him to be playing his regular 4-3-3. I would have interpreted our good stuff towards the back end of last season, to have been a 4-3-3 also.

If 4-2-3-1, or what we are seeing in pre-season (which is different) is the new default and reliable, then yeah its a big shift and Hererra is a bit in trouble. But part of me thinks it's maybe something he might be looking at for some of the tough away fixtures, and his 4-3-3 will be the norm throughout next season.

All speculative I guess on my part, be something to keep an eye out for alright. I think Hererra was too good for large portions of the second half f the season for him not to fit into Van Gaals plans. He took his medicine, went off and learned what LVG wanted, and came back as one of our best players for large portions.

TheDoc

Trilla wrote: »

lol... we're not all blessed with that Pacey from dawson creek looks that you possess Doc #ride

He just looks like an old friend, who was a CB in front of me for years and was bogey as ****. Can't ever shake the similarity, so have this instant reaction to roar at Evans

But joking aside, I never really rated him bar a short spell where I thought he was coming into his own and I was wrong, but was quickly changed back again.

Rossi IRL

py2006 wrote: »

Defence still fairly weak though don't ya think?

Maybe but i would like to see Smalling play a full season, i think he is ahead of Jones in terms of development.

If Pique was available id say YES PLEASE

Nalz

TheDoc wrote: »

But joking aside, I never really rated him bar a short spell where I thought he was coming into his own and I was wrong, but was quickly changed back again.

I think most Utd fans feel this way. There as a period in his career (3-4 months) where we were all getting excited. He even looked composed.

I'm sure there is a chance that he or Smalling | Jones | Rojo can reach those heights more consistently with a solid experienced partner beside them.

We need a quality CB and a striker (quality or backup) asap imo

Your Airbag

It would be foolhardy of LVG to throw Valencia on the bench and favor Darmain straight away. Especially with the important UCL matches coming so early.

There seems to be a trend of good players on here who are unpopular and cool to dislike (by some). Valencia, Fellaini and Carrick being the main victims.

Yes Valencia has lost some of the spark he had 3-4 years ago but is still a very good player and important to the team. He is strong and reliable and makes for reliable RB and Rafael was rightly sidelined in favor of Val at RB because of it. Some people will scoff at that statement because Raf had more skill to his game but was overall less reliable than Val.

People tend to be overcritical of some players and over hype certain aspects of others. Raf would produce nice skillfull moments at times but they were infrequent. He would be a headless chicken at other times but when a player produces skill people tend to be more forgiving. I see this mentality form that "given a run we could get that great skillfull player all the time". Its wishful thinking. It works the opposite with the reliable players such as Val, they can be seen as boring and safe by some fans. People will highlight their mistakes even more, like Val being out of position for goals against City are made out to be proof that he is a "shocking rb" and all the times he was in position and prevented a cross or assist are ignored.

Raf had many chances but fell just short for me and I don't think a longer run was going to improve him that much more, Val was stronger overall. If you think LVG didn't know enough of Rafs abilities compared to Vals from seeing them day in day out then your wrong. Of course he has and he has gone for relaible over more skilfull but less reliable.

This is why we don't chuck Darmain straight in. Now LVG might have seen enough to say he's skillfull and more reliable than Val already, fair enough but I doubt it.

There is a trend to favor the new name and think the new guy will be bettter. You don't just scrap relaible for new. Darmain may struggle, Val is still important.

Same goes for Fellaini and Carrick. They are still important squad members even though Morgan and Bastian have arrived.

New and big names from big clubs can have stock put in them too much at times and a biased want for them to start over reliable forms. We all love a touch of flair and skill now and again but the 90min performance is more important. When marquee names are over-hyped people get let down and we have Falcao and Di Maria situations. Be careful what you wish for is how the saying goes i think.

Fergie knew it and loved and built UTD on reliable as much as he did big names. Players from Oldham, Norwich, Middelsbrough, Notts forest, Villa, Molde and Bronby went on the be some of our best ever players because they were reliable.

LVG said the new players have to prove themselves because like anyone in the game long enough knows you don't just discard reliability in favor of the new, thats a recipe for disaster.

nullzero

Your Airbag wrote: »

It would be foolhardy of LVG to throw Valencia on the bench and favor Darmain straight away. Especially with the important UCL matches coming so early.

There seems to be a trend of good players on here who are unpopular and cool to dislike (by some). Valencia, Fellaini and Carrick being the main victims.

Yes Valencia has lost some of the spark he had 3-4 years ago but is still a very good player and important to the team. He is strong and reliable and makes for reliable RB and Rafael was rightly sidelined in favor of Val at RB because of it. Some people will scoff at that statement because Raf had more skill to his game but was overall less reliable than Val.

People tend to be overcritical of some players and over hype certain aspects of others. Raf would produce nice skillfull moments at times but they were infrequent. He would be a headless chicken at other times but when a player produces skill people tend to be more forgiving. I see this mentality form that "given a run we could get that great skillfull player all the time". Its wishful thinking. It works the opposite with the reliable players such as Val, they can be seen as boring and safe by some fans. People will highlight their mistakes even more, like Val being out of position for goals against City are made out to be proof that he is a "shocking rb" and all the times he was in position and prevented a cross or assist are ignored.

Raf had many chances but fell just short for me and I don't think a longer run was going to improve him that much more, Val was stronger overall. If you think LVG didn't know enough of Rafs abilities compared to Vals from seeing them day in day out then your wrong. Of course he has and he has gone for relaible over more skilfull but less reliable.

This is why we don't chuck Darmain straight in. Now LVG might have seen enough to say he's skillfull and more reliable than Val already, fair enough but I doubt it.

There is a trend to favor the new name and think the new guy will be bettter. You don't just scrap relaible for new. Darmain may struggle, Val is still important.

Same goes for Fellaini and Carrick. They are still important squad members even though Morgan and Bastian have arrived.

New and big names from big clubs can have stock put in them too much at times and a biased want for them to start over reliable forms. We all love a touch of flair and skill now and again but the 90min performance is more important. When marquee names are over-hyped people get let down and we have Falcao and Di Maria situations. Be careful what you wish for is how the saying goes i think.

Fergie knew it and loved and built UTD on reliable as much as he did big names. Player from Oldham, Norwich, Middelsbrough, Notts forest, Villa, Molde and Bronby went on the be some of our best ever players because they were reliable.

LVG said the new players have to prove themselves because like anyone in the game long enough knows you don't just discard reliability in favor of the new, thats a recipe for disaster.

[sees text block] "my eyes, ze goggles do nothing".

Jayop

People are critical of Valencia because he's meh. That's really it. If he could do what he did against Liverpool last season and actually attempt to beat his man, or at least once in every 2/3 games put a cross in that beats the first man we'd be more understanding of your view not to start with Darmian.

It's not like Darmian is some untested kid. He's Italy's first choice RB and played first team football in Serie A.

bucketybuck

So Valencia has been dog**** for years but lets keep him in the team and leave the 25 year old Italian international right back on the bench in case he doesn't start well?

Nah.

homerjay2005

LVG is very very odd at times, some of the stuff he does is baffling.

Fenix

bucketybuck wrote: »

So Valencia has been dog**** for years but lets keep him in the team and leave the 25 year old Italian international right back on the bench in case he doesn't start well?

Nah.

Dog ****e is harsh, but I do agree with your point to an extent.

Darmian is far from untested, and has the attributes to cope with both the EPL and Champions League. He'd get my vote.

homerjay2005

homerjay2005 wrote: »

LVG is very very odd at times, some of the stuff he does is baffling.

While I don't overly disagree, is there something new in the headlines today?

DARK-KNIGHT

Your Airbag wrote: »

It would be foolhardy of LVG to throw Valencia on the bench and favor Darmain straight away. Especially with the important UCL matches coming so early.

There seems to be a trend of good players on here who are unpopular and cool to dislike (by some). Valencia, Fellaini and Carrick being the main victims.

Yes Valencia has lost some of the spark he had 3-4 years ago but is still a very good player and important to the team. He is strong and reliable and makes for reliable RB and Rafael was rightly sidelined in favor of Val at RB because of it. Some people will scoff at that statement because Raf had more skill to his game but was overall less reliable than Val.

People tend to be overcritical of some players and over hype certain aspects of others. Raf would produce nice skillfull moments at times but they were infrequent. He would be a headless chicken at other times but when a player produces skill people tend to be more forgiving. I see this mentality form that "given a run we could get that great skillfull player all the time". Its wishful thinking. It works the opposite with the reliable players such as Val, they can be seen as boring and safe by some fans. People will highlight their mistakes even more, like Val being out of position for goals against City are made out to be proof that he is a "shocking rb" and all the times he was in position and prevented a cross or assist are ignored.

Raf had many chances but fell just short for me and I don't think a longer run was going to improve him that much more, Val was stronger overall. If you think LVG didn't know enough of Rafs abilities compared to Vals from seeing them day in day out then your wrong. Of course he has and he has gone for relaible over more skilfull but less reliable.

This is why we don't chuck Darmain straight in. Now LVG might have seen enough to say he's skillfull and more reliable than Val already, fair enough but I doubt it.

There is a trend to favor the new name and think the new guy will be bettter. You don't just scrap relaible for new. Darmain may struggle, Val is still important.

Same goes for Fellaini and Carrick. They are still important squad members even though Morgan and Bastian have arrived.

New and big names from big clubs can have stock put in them too much at times and a biased want for them to start over reliable forms. We all love a touch of flair and skill now and again but the 90min performance is more important. When marquee names are over-hyped people get let down and we have Falcao and Di Maria situations. Be careful what you wish for is how the saying goes i think.

Fergie knew it and loved and built UTD on reliable as much as he did big names. Players from Oldham, Norwich, Middelsbrough, Notts forest, Villa, Molde and Bronby went on the be some of our best ever players because they were reliable.

LVG said the new players have to prove themselves because like anyone in the game long enough knows you don't just discard reliability in favor of the new, thats a recipe for disaster.

when you say notts forest I presume you meant Keane? Reliable to describe him is a bit mad ted he was absolutely world class

Chris_Bradley

homerjay2005 wrote: »

LVG is very very odd at times, some of the stuff he does is baffling.

This season he must deliver, he can't say he hasn't been given a decent war-chest if it all goes bellies-up.

Your Airbag

bucketybuck wrote: »

So Valencia has been dog**** for years but lets keep him in the team and leave the 25 year old Italian international right back on the bench in case he doesn't start well?

Nah.

Did you read all the post or just the first bit? Or maybe you didn't understand it?

The point is Val hasn't been dogsh1t for years but people tend to like to say that. I guess your another.

Darmain may turn out great, he may struggle in the EPL. Approaching these situations with caution and not scraping a player for the new kid was the point. A point which seems to go over you head.

But hey a sensationalist strawman response to simple point is what you opted for.

The new big name doesn't justify an immediate starting spot. LVG benched ADM in favor of Young most of last season and rightly so. Young who was another name popular to dislike the season before.

Sometimes reliable is better and the big name can't cut it so you give both a chance. Do you have trouble understanding that basic point?

UnitedIrishman

homerjay2005 wrote: »

LVG is very very odd at times, some of the stuff he does is baffling.

Such as?

Pro. F

Trilla wrote: »

I genuinely thought that Evans wasn't really popular for a good while now... he was frequently knocked, in some cases harshly. I know from my season ticket days in OT that he was never flavour of the month. You' hear the phrase "Jonny F*cking Evans" and the likes around the place. I'm sure I've seen constant rants and knock downs across the internet over the years.

He's what 27 or 28 yrs ol now? He's not the young promising centre back with potential anymore. I never was his big fan and just hoped every year he'd come good and step up to the plate to the standard that we required.

But it's not like people are just saying that Evans hasn't progressed enough. There are a lot of posters talking as if him being third/fourth/fifth choice is harmful to the club's chances of winning things; that they'd be delighted if he was sold. If they really think that then it must be the case that they always thought he was far below the required standard.

I just don't remember those extreme opinions being expressed very much in previous seasons. But I suppose I could well just be not remembering.

Your Airbag

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

when you say notts forest I presume you meant Keane? Reliable to describe him is a bit mad ted he was absolutely world class

Yes it was Keane but I also mentioned the big name from a big name club getting biased favor and some fans want them to start over what they have.

In Keanes case he came from a small club and had a good reputation and turned into a superstar with us where as Falcao and AMD had a big club history and the superstar tag but the relaible players from Wigan and Villa were better for us.

Its about too much weight can be put into names. New names are more exciting and the old names bore people but like I said anyone in the game long enough knows you don't just discard reliability in favor of the new, thats a recipe for disaster. Fergie didn't do it and LVG would be mad too also.

Your Airbag

Pro. F wrote: »

But it's not like people are just saying that Evans hasn't progressed enough. There are a lot of posters talking as if him being third/fourth/fifth choice is harmful to the club's chances of winning things; that they'd be delighted if he was sold. If they really think that then it must be the case that they always thought he was far below the required standard.

I just don't remember those extreme opinions being expressed very much in previous seasons. But I suppose I could well just be not remembering.

No. Why must it be the case?

People change their minds on players as you have done before. Some players look strong in their first season or two and tail off, other looks weak and go onto improve.

I thought Evans looked very reliable when he was paired with Vidic, now he is poor in my eyes but I think next to an expericned CB he may improve again and become a starter.

People change their minds on the quality of a player as the from and quality of the player changes. It isn't a constant and linear progression, things change such as form and opinions.

Pro. F

Your Airbag wrote: »

Yes it was Keane but I also mentioned the big name from a big name club getting biased favor and some fans want them to start over what they have.

In Keanes case he came from a small club and had a good reputation and turned into a superstar with us where as Falcao and AMD had a big club history and the superstar tag but the relaible players from Wigan and Villa were better for us.

Its about too much weight can be put into names. New names are more exciting and the old names bore people but like I said anyone in the game long enough knows you don't just discard reliability in favor of the new, thats a recipe for disaster. Fergie didn't do it and LVG would be mad too also.

Can you pick a superior player over an inferior one? Is that a recipe for something?

Mitch Connor

my opinion on our defenders is that individually that can be deemed very good (at least at times) and that people can say, with good merit imo, that beside the right partner they could flourish. The problem, imo, is that the partner they need isn't at the club - we don't have Rio or Vidic anymore, and none of the current lot have displayed that leadership or a hint it is there. By rights we should be looking at Evans' to supply that leadership but he never stepped up following the departure of Rio and Vidic.

I really like Jones and Smalling, to a slightly lesser extent Rojo (because of his confidence on the ball he is willing to take a player on and that gives me palpitations because I don't have that confidence in him or our defence to recover yet!) and then Evans as 4th to them because I simply don't think he has shown anything since Rio and Vidic moved on, when he should have come to the fore. But, as I say, it is the fact there isn't a leader to steady the defensive line (and Darmian, Valencia nor Shaw are going to do it either) and organise both the defense and midfield positioning means, imo, we are always going to be shakey in defense. The opposition will always be able to get at them and create holes, as we saw many times last season.

As a follow on point - I think McNair is miles away from being good enough now, but has promise. Blackett I think would already be shifted out of the club if he was right footed - I don't see it in him at all.

Rossi IRL

Mitch Connor wrote: »

my opinion on our defenders is that individually that can be deemed very good (at least at times) and that people can say, with good merit imo, that beside the right partner they could flourish. The problem, imo, is that the partner they need isn't at the club - we don't have Rio or Vidic anymore, and none of the current lot have displayed that leadership or a hint it is there. By rights we should be looking at Evans' to supply that leadership but he never stepped up following the departure of Rio and Vidic.

I really like Jones and Smalling, to a slightly lesser extent Rojo (because of his confidence on the ball he is willing to take a player on and that gives me palpitations because I don't have that confidence in him or our defence to recover yet!) and then Evans as 4th to them because I simply don't think he has shown anything since Rio and Vidic moved on, when he should have come to the fore. But, as I say, it is the fact there isn't a leader to steady the defensive line (and Darmian, Valencia nor Shaw are going to do it either) and organise both the defense and midfield positioning means, imo, we are always going to be shakey in defense. The opposition will always be able to get at them and create holes, as we saw many times last season.

As a follow on point - I think McNair is miles away from being good enough now, but has promise. Blackett I think would already be shifted out of the club if he was right footed - I don't see it in him at all.

Exactly how i see it aswell.

Pro. F

Your Airbag wrote: »

No. Why must it be the case?

People change their minds on players as you have done before. Some players look strong in their first season or two and tail off, other looks weak and go onto improve.

I thought Evans looked very reliable when he was paired with Vidic, now he is poor in my eyes but I think next to an expericned CB he may improve again and become a starter.

People change their minds on the quality of a player as the from and quality of the player changes. It isn't a constant and linear progression, things change such as form and opinions.

Oh yes people can change their opinions on players. If anybody is saying that they used to think Evans was good enough for United, but now they realise that he's awful or whatever, then fair enough. But I'm not seeing people saying they've changed their opinions in that way.

Anyway, as I say, I could well just be not remembering the extreme criticism of him in the past. I used to be arguing against people saying that he was very good, so I probably wouldn't have paid much attention to posters with more extremely critical views on him than I had.

Del007

Lucas Hood wrote: »

Not sure if it has been mentioned already but Graham Hunter has a good podcast. This week he had a good interview with David Moyes.

Moyes came across very well on it. Hunter gave him a chance to put some of the united players down but he responded saying everyone was brilliant to him at United.
Moyes referred to Rooney as a street footballer. Sure Bankok will love that .

Link to podcast
http://grahamhunter.tv/the-big-interview-with-david-moyes-2/

Also done some good ones with Gary Neville,Jamie Carragher & Gordon Strachan.

They're fantastic podcasts alright, hopefully he'll do a good few more

Giggsy11

Mitch Connor wrote: »

my opinion on our defenders is that individually that can be deemed very good (at least at times) and that people can say, with good merit imo, that beside the right partner they could flourish. The problem, imo, is that the partner they need isn't at the club - we don't have Rio or Vidic anymore, and none of the current lot have displayed that leadership or a hint it is there. By rights we should be looking at Evans' to supply that leadership but he never stepped up following the departure of Rio and Vidic.

I really like Jones and Smalling, to a slightly lesser extent Rojo (because of his confidence on the ball he is willing to take a player on and that gives me palpitations because I don't have that confidence in him or our defence to recover yet!) and then Evans as 4th to them because I simply don't think he has shown anything since Rio and Vidic moved on, when he should have come to the fore. But, as I say, it is the fact there isn't a leader to steady the defensive line (and Darmian, Valencia nor Shaw are going to do it either) and organise both the defense and midfield positioning means, imo, we are always going to be shakey in defense. The opposition will always be able to get at them and create holes, as we saw many times last season.

As a follow on point - I think McNair is miles away from being good enough now, but has promise. Blackett I think would already be shifted out of the club if he was right footed - I don't see it in him at all.

Like you said our defenders are good enough individually, imo it's upto Van Gaal to make the team defensively solid.

There are reasons to be optimistic.
1. We have proper CMs who can offer lot defensively like Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger.
2. We have proper RB who knows how to defend and how to move tactically.
3. We have proper LB who hopefully will play lot than last season.
4. No more experimenting 3 at the back which was a disaster.

Van Gaal also didn't help last season with so many changes tactically to find the right balance, so now with year gone and having proper CMs and full backs we should be better defensively.

Blatter

Evans is a good CB when he's on form. Too weak in the air to be considered excellent but more than good enough as a squad player. A major problem with him is when he's off form, he can be almost comically poor whereas most other CBs would keep up some sort of minimum standard even when they're not playing well. IMO, this is what causes people to dismiss him as rubbish - they are judging him on the few times he is comically bad as if he's always like that, which is obviously unfair.

Mikeyt086

Fenix wrote: »

Why are people putting Darmian as RB on their lineups?

It's not that I don't agree, but didn't LVG say Valencia would be first choice right back?

Lost in translation.

LVG wants two players for each position, Darmian is the second right back at the club after Rafael ceasing to exist, and will compete with Valencia.

The way LVG said it had people thinking Darmian is a back-up but that's not the case, I think LVG himself even cleared that up.

MythicalMadMan

RVP not in starting line-up for Fen, no idea if he is on the bench cant find it anywhere

Mitch Connor

Del007 wrote: »

They're fantastic podcasts alright, hopefully he'll do a good few more

he will probably retweet that post.

UnitedIrishman

Mitch Connor wrote: »

my opinion on our defenders is that individually that can be deemed very good (at least at times) and that people can say, with good merit imo, that beside the right partner they could flourish. The problem, imo, is that the partner they need isn't at the club - we don't have Rio or Vidic anymore, and none of the current lot have displayed that leadership or a hint it is there. By rights we should be looking at Evans' to supply that leadership but he never stepped up following the departure of Rio and Vidic.

I really like Jones and Smalling, to a slightly lesser extent Rojo (because of his confidence on the ball he is willing to take a player on and that gives me palpitations because I don't have that confidence in him or our defence to recover yet!) and then Evans as 4th to them because I simply don't think he has shown anything since Rio and Vidic moved on, when he should have come to the fore. But, as I say, it is the fact there isn't a leader to steady the defensive line (and Darmian, Valencia nor Shaw are going to do it either) and organise both the defense and midfield positioning means, imo, we are always going to be shakey in defense. The opposition will always be able to get at them and create holes, as we saw many times last season.

As a follow on point - I think McNair is miles away from being good enough now, but has promise. Blackett I think would already be shifted out of the club if he was right footed - I don't see it in him at all.

That's a fair summation of it alright.

My own view allied with that is that I think you will see Smalling/Jones progress further and either step up as a leader next season. Last year was the first without Rio and Vidic and they were both very imposing figures that dominated defenders and whilst playing with the younger CB's, I'm sure were the ones to call the line etc.

Vocally Smalling has always been very good - it's the physical side of leading a back line he has needed to sort out. He's always been decent in the air but doesn't bully attackers as Terry or others do. Jones is the opposite but tries to compensate by being too physical/or hesitates when making a decision to stop or go. Experience and games is the only way forward for them - I mean Smalling is 25 and Jones 23 - and although like yourself and others I'd have liked to see another CB come in, if it doesn't happen I still think we'll improve markedly in defence next season.

Giggsy11

MythicalMadMan wrote: »

RVP not in starting line-up for Fen, no idea if he is on the bench cant find it anywhere

He is on bench.

http://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/season=2016/matches/live/day=-4/session=1/match=2015629/index.html

Jayop

Blatter wrote: »

Evans is a good CB when he's on form. Too weak in the air to be considered excellent but more than good enough as a squad player. A major problem with him is when he's off form, he can be almost comically poor whereas most other CBs would keep up some sort of minimum standard even when they're not playing well. IMO, this is what causes people to dismiss him as rubbish - they are judging him on the few times he is comically bad as if he's always like that, which is obviously unfair.

Yep, Evans needs a run of games to get his form, but every time he gets to the point where he's bossing games at the back he picks up a knock. Then he's out for a couple of games and comes back rusty as hell.

MisterAnarchy

Not a bad article by Paul Parker today.
He is usually a bit over the top but he often speaks alot of sense too.

https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/esp-premier-league-united-problems-ends-pitch-time-running-134609881--sow.html

United have problems at both ends of the pitch… and time is running out to fix them
Despite the £70 million Louis van Gaal has spent this summer, he needs to quickly find a striker and develop a solid centre-back pairing

duffman13

That Fenerbache squad looks fairly healthy, Simon Kjaer and Bruno Alves at CB would have been the football manager dream team a few years ago. Meireles and RVP on the bench aswell

bucketybuck

Your Airbag wrote: »

Did you read all the post or just the first bit? Or maybe you didn't understand it?

The point is Val hasn't been dogsh1t for years but people tend to like to say that. I guess your another.

Darmain may turn out great, he may struggle in the EPL. Approaching these situations with caution and not scraping a player for the new kid was the point. A point which seems to go over you head.

But hey a sensationalist strawman response to simple point is what you opted for.

The new big name doesn't justify an immediate starting spot. LVG benched ADM in favor of Young most of last season and rightly so. Young who was another name popular to dislike the season before.

Sometimes reliable is better and the big name can't cut it so you give both a chance. Do you have trouble understanding that basic point?

Valencia has been dog****e and your point is bunkum, and all the snark in the world isn't changing that simple fact.

If you want good old reliable Antonio Valencia and good old reliable Ashley Young in the team then you are welcome to your opinion, I do believe it shows a remarkable fear of change but each to their own. For my own part, I'm sick of people settling for mediocrity, so I believe we should be replacing the reliably useless members of our team and perhaps finally getting back on our perch. The new players might indeed fail, but better we try and fail than sit in our rut hoping that one day the likes of Valencia will produce a good cross.

I do think we should stick that Schweinsteiger fella on the bench though. Sure he seems experienced, but its a different league and he might struggle, so better to stick with the old reliables there as well. Is that Cleverley fella still around?

Roquentin

i think smalling is a top defender. jones is good but keeps getting injured. rojo is prone to doing something rash, still good at carrying it out from the back. evans im not too gone on. i think blackett is one to keep an eye on. hes gone teh confidence. needs to bulk up though. not sure if mcnair has the temperment.

Jayop

TBF, Young isn't settling for mediocrity. He's been genuinely excellent for a year now and VanGaal helping him he should continue to improve. Not as explosive going forward as he was, but he's one of the key components to us getting fourth last year.

Every time I do a team sheet for this year and leave him off in favour of Depay I feel guilty.

bucketybuck

Jayop wrote: »

TBF, Young isn't settling for mediocrity. He's been genuinely excellent for a year now and VanGaal helping him he should continue to improve. Not as explosive going forward as he was, but he's one of the key components to us getting fourth last year.

Every time I do a team sheet for this year and leave him off in favour of Depay I feel guilty.

Why? Sentiment has no place if we want to be the best.

I'm more than happy to have Young in the squad, he is versatile and can do a great job for us. But do I want him first choice? Hell no. 2 goals a season just isn't going to win us any titles.

how.gareth

Lads never mind your gifs and transfer rumours, WHERE THE HELL IS THE GOWL????

markc91

Quick question lads going to be in orlando for the champions league game, anyone able to recommend me somewhere on international drive that should have it?

Liam McPoyle

We need a first choice, world class centre half badly and I fear failure to address the position could be our undoing.

Obviously the MF signings should mean our defence won't be as exposed but still, it's a problem area.

I wonder if LVG is toying with the idea of having Bastian as a centre half?

Wouldn't be a bad option I feel.

Obviously a natural centre half would be the preferred option but he would add a huge amount of experience and calmness to a somewhat headless area.