Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015 - Mod Post in OP 23/07

Jayop

bucketybuck wrote: »

Why? Sentiment has no place if we want to be the best.

I'm more than happy to have Young in the squad, he is versatile and can do a great job for us. But do I want him first choice? Hell no. 2 goals a season just isn't going to win us any titles.

Guilty was perhaps a bad choice of word.

You could argue that he had a better season than Mata who also plays in a position Young plays in. Few would dream of dropping Mata though.

Young will get loads of games this season though so I'm making a nothing point.

GSPfan

bucketybuck wrote: »

Why? Sentiment has no place if we want to be the best.

I'm more than happy to have Young in the squad, he is versatile and can do a great job for us. But do I want him first choice? Hell no. 2 goals a season just isn't going to win us any titles.

In fairness he didn't say he'd have him in the team. He is saying he would leave him out for better players but feels bad about it.

Jayop

markc91 wrote: »

Quick question lads going to be in orlando for the champions league game, anyone able to recommend me somewhere on international drive that should have it?

Should probably make a thread about it in the soccer forum to have a real chance of someone in the know answering.

Pro. F

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Not a bad article by Paul Parker today.
He is usually a bit over the top but he often speaks alot of sense too.

https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/esp-premier-league-united-problems-ends-pitch-time-running-134609881--sow.html

Hey, you know this video where you said Smalling could have given away three or four penalties and that the ball just hit him a good few times without him knowing much about it...

Could you point out which exact incedents you were talking about?

bucketybuck

Jayop wrote: »

Guilty was perhaps a bad choice of word.

You could argue that he had a better season than Mata who also plays in a position Young plays in. Few would dream of dropping Mata though.

Young will get loads of games this season though so I'm making a nothing point.

Mata is a sacred cow but actually you will see quite a few lineups suggested without him in the team. Personally I don't have the love in for him that others have, and I suspect Van Gaal doesn't either. Time will tell on this score, but another big attacking signing could see Mata having to get used to the bench again.

Giggsy11

Hopefully Valencia is back to full fitness and also back to his best. He tweeted something about 100% recovered, maybe he was playing with the pain in his ankle after the leg break all these years. Now that he had operation, i'm just clinging on to anything that looks positive.

https://twitter.com/anto_v25/status/625095847278153728

Mars Bar

Apparently the screws in his ankle were causing him some bother and I think he had a hip problem at one point too.

bucketybuck

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Hopefully Valencia is back to full fitness and also back to his best. He tweeted something about 100% recovered, maybe he was playing with the pain in his ankle

The pain was in everybody else's ankles.

MagicMarker

God, a back to his best Valencia on the right wing would be a sight to behold.

Pro. F

Jayop wrote: »

TBF, Young isn't settling for mediocrity. He's been genuinely excellent for a year now and VanGaal helping him he should continue to improve. Not as explosive going forward as he was, but he's one of the key components to us getting fourth last year.

Every time I do a team sheet for this year and leave him off in favour of Depay I feel guilty.

Surely if he had been genuinely excellent then he would have created more chances and scored more goals. Is it really possible for a winger to be genuinely excellent while being such a weak attacking threat?

Just acceptable is how I'd describe his performances myself.

Giggsy11

https://twitter.com/jb_8521/status/626086335133061120

hogandrew

Giggsy11 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/jb_8521/status/626086335133061120

He looks a serious talent. Good news

MisterAnarchy

Pro. F wrote: »

Hey, you know this video where you said Smalling could have given away three or four penalties and that the ball just hit him a good few times without him knowing much about it...

Could you point out which exact incedents you were talking about?

Possible handball at 35 seconds (would be harsh)

Possible handball at 54 seconds (would be harsh)

Trip at 1:35

Possible push in back at 4:47

He certainly likes to use his arms in that clip

Nalz

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Possible handball at 35 seconds (would be harsh)

Possible handball at 54 seconds (would be harsh)

Trip at 1:35

Possible push in back at 4:47

He certainly likes to use his arms in that clip

I think your trip at 1:35 would be possible and harsh too

MisterAnarchy

Trilla wrote: »

I think your trip at 1:35 would be possible and harsh too

Possibly ,yeah,the video quality isnt the best to be fair.

Smalling is also using his arms alot in the clip ,fair amount of pushing ,shoving and grabbing .

sofireland

markc91 wrote: »

Quick question lads going to be in orlando for the champions league game, anyone able to recommend me somewhere on international drive that should have it?

Buffalo wild wings will probably show it - failing that the Lucky Leprechaun, in fact there are a couple of English / Irish bars on the Wet n Wild end of IDrive

Lord TSC

sofireland wrote: »

Buffalo wild wings will probably show it - failing that the Lucky Leprechaun, in fact there are a couple of English / Irish bars on the Wet n Wild end of IDrive

I Drive is absolutely littered with sports and Irish bars, so I can't imagine you'll have much trouble finding it

Vertigo100

Hey doc. Spurs match is on at old Trafford.

Trigger

sofireland wrote: »

Buffalo wild wings will probably show it - failing that the Lucky Leprechaun, in fact there are a couple of English / Irish bars on the Wet n Wild end of IDrive

Theseare possibly the best places in the world.. hundreds of screens showing all the sports,various games, to go with wings and beer.. glorious..

There was one directly across from our hotel in NYC..

Your Airbag

Pro. F wrote: »

Oh yes people can change their opinions on players. If anybody is saying that they used to think Evans was good enough for United, but now they realise that he's awful or whatever, then fair enough. But I'm not seeing people saying they've changed their opinions in that way.

Anyway, as I say, I could well just be not remembering the extreme criticism of him in the past. I used to be arguing against people saying that he was very good, so I probably wouldn't have paid much attention to posters with more extremely critical views on him than I had.

Thats the ponit, people would not have been critical of him when he was playing well. Why would they?

They criticise him when his form goes to a low level. Its simple really

Pro. F wrote: »

Can you pick a superior player over an inferior one? Is that a recipe for something?

Yes you can, if your using that as a come back to my relaible player post you missed the point entirely.

MythicalMadMan

Nani lookiing sharp for Fenerbache.

Discuss :pac:

jayo26

MythicalMadMan wrote: »

Nani lookiing sharp for Fenerbache.

Discuss :pac:

Who,???

Lord TSC

MythicalMadMan wrote: »

Nani lookiing sharp for Fenerbache.

Discuss :pac:

RobertKK

MythicalMadMan wrote: »

Nani lookiing sharp for Fenerbache.

Discuss :pac:

I rather watch Mata play for us...:D

Blatter

Pro. F wrote: »

Surely if he had been genuinely excellent then he would have created more chances and scored more goals. Is it really possible for a winger to be genuinely excellent while being such a weak attacking threat?

Just acceptable is how I'd describe his performances myself.

I'd agree that Young's performance level overall was nothing more than acceptable overall.

Back when the team was playing 3-5-2, he was one of the only players comfortable in it and LVG instructed the team to get it out to him as often as possible. He was very hit and miss, I think lots of people were assuming he was playing really well because he was seeing so much ball.

Your Airbag

bucketybuck wrote: »

1. Valencia has been dog****e and your point is bunkum, and all the snark in the world isn't changing that simple fact.

2. If you want good old reliable Antonio Valencia and good old reliable Ashley Young in the team then you are welcome to your opinion, I do believe it shows a remarkable fear of change but each to their own. For my own part, I'm sick of people settling for mediocrity, so I believe we should be replacing the reliably useless members of our team and perhaps finally getting back on our perch. The new players might indeed fail, but better we try and fail than sit in our rut hoping that one day the likes of Valencia will produce a good cross.

3. I do think we should stick that Schweinsteiger fella on the bench though. Sure he seems experienced, but its a different league and he might struggle, so better to stick with the old reliables there as well. Is that Cleverley fella still around?

1. No he hasn't. This is a gross over criticisim. He hasn't been amazing but he caetainly hasnt been dog ****e, he looks a lot more capable than alot of rb's.

2. Yes good old Val and Young. Young who kept AMD out of the team but my point about big names getting favor seems to gone over your head because it was describing you it seems. We should play ADM every week even though he can't cross or pass or doesn't look bothered becasue the "useless" and "mediocre" Young and Val don't excite you anymore.

3. I should have read this part first, then I would have know i was dealing with an idiot who only wants to argue and can't handle a differing opinion. Yeah thats exactly what I wanted to say, Bench Schweinsteigerand bring Cleverly back :rolleyes:

My point was you dont just ditch everything new for old. You approach with caution. Darmain maybe a star, he may go the Falcao route.

But hey lets just ditch Val no matter how he plays.

Schweinsteiger is class and will proably fit right in, but there is a slight chance he could sturggle. I hope not.

But I totally meant bring Clev back instead, way to Strawman.

MythicalMadMan

I think Valencia is a pretty poor RB not really his fault as he is a winger.

Positionally he was caught out a good few times last season but his pace got him out of trouble. He also cost us a few goal from what I can remember.

Going forward he never takes on his man unless he has no other option, rarely overlaps and seems incapable of putting in a good cross.

Darmian has looked solid in preseason so far in defence, and his attacking nature looks to be a few levels above Valencia.

He is also pretty much two footed so he wont be closed down as much as Valencia and being able to pass with both feet is very important in a possesion based team.

Also Darmian has been a RB for years at a high level and I'd prefer that kind of continuity than a converted winger who had one season doing a job for us.

But agin thats just my opinion

MythicalMadMan

Bankock you'll love this, someone from Fenerbache not sure if it was the manager wrote a note and another player brought it to Diego on the pitch during the game.

I must admit I've never seen that before

Trond

Some more good news from the youth team

https://twitter.com/jb_8521/status/626086335133061120

Jayop

Pro. F wrote: »

Surely if he had been genuinely excellent then he would have created more chances and scored more goals. Is it really possible for a winger to be genuinely excellent while being such a weak attacking threat?

Just acceptable is how I'd describe his performances myself.

Blatter wrote: »

I'd agree that Young's performance level overall was nothing more than acceptable overall.

Back when the team was playing 3-5-2, he was one of the only players comfortable in it and LVG instructed the team to get it out to him as often as possible. He was very hit and miss, I think lots of people were assuming he was playing really well because he was seeing so much ball.

Last season he played 26 games in the league, had an average whoscored rating of 7.23 (I know ratings are subjective but that's fair imo), had 5 assists, 2 goals and 4 MOTM awards. That's a very decent return.

Most of his main attacking play was in the build up to goals and not as the direct assist maker so he doesn't get the awards there. His link up play after Christmas on the left with Blind and Fellaini was pivotal, especially int eh City game where he was amazing.

Jayop

MythicalMadMan wrote: »

I think Valencia is a pretty poor RB not really his fault as he is a winger.

Positionally he was caught out a good few times last season but his pace got him out of trouble. He also cost us a few goal from what I can remember.

Going forward he never takes on his man unless he has no other option, rarely overlaps and seems incapable of putting in a good cross.

Darmian has looked solid in preseason so far in defence, and his attacking nature looks to be a few levels above Valencia.

He is also pretty much two footed so he wont be closed down as much as Valencia and being able to pass with both feet is very important in a possesion based team.

Also Darmian has been a RB for years at a high level and I'd prefer that kind of continuity than a converted winger who had one season doing a job for us.

But agin thats just my opinion

Cost us the Arsenal game in the cup I think it was with an awful back pass.

Liam O

I think Valencia is a better RB than RM or RW at this stage. As hilarious as it sounds to say, his attacking frailties aren't as pronounced.

scudzilla

When SAF retired i was hoping that we'd get Jose, i 'had' always liked Jose but the light has finally dawned on me and this week i've realised what a tool he is, he's trolling everyone

scudzilla

scudzilla wrote: »

When SAF retired i was hoping that we'd get Jose, i 'had' always liked Jose but the light has finally dawned on me and this week i've realised what a tool he is, he's trolling everyone

sure he's a tool that does not mean he's not a fantastic manager. also saf trolled the **** out of the league for years he absolutely broke some managers

bucketybuck

Your Airbag wrote: »

But hey lets just ditch Val no matter how he plays.

We know how he plays, he plays utter dog****. We can see that with our own eyes. So yes, lets please ditch Valencia.

If Valencia had been anything but utter dog**** you might have had a point, but he wasn't, so you don't.

Billy86

Your Airbag wrote: »

1. No he hasn't. This is a gross over criticisim. He hasn't been amazing but he caetainly hasnt been dog ****e, he looks a lot more capable than alot of rb's.

No.

Trond

adox

As mad a concept as it may seem I'd like to see players played in their positions.

I don't want Valencia at RB. He isn't a RB and he is a liability to the team when played there. He's not good enough as a starter on the wing as his form has been really poor for at least two to three seasons now.

I don't want players shoe horned into positions. I want a full back playing in the full back position. We have two international full backs in either position on the books. It would be madness not to play them, especially in favour of a winger.

Valencias physicality, work rate and speed has somewhat blinded managers into thinking he is a good option at RB. He's not. He should be a stop gap at best. Now we have signed Italy's RB it's a no brainer to have him as first choice.

adox

Jayop wrote: »

Cost us the Arsenal game in the cup I think it was with an awful back pass.

Those things can happen. More of a concern is he just doesn't have the instincts of s defender. He's a serial ball watcher and gets caught out of position or flat footed on numerous occassions.

TheDoc

Vertigo100 wrote: »

Hey doc. Spurs match is on at old Trafford.

da fuq, thought it was white hart lane?

adox

Jayop wrote: »

Last season he played 26 games in the league, had an average whoscored rating of 7.23 (I know ratings are subjective but that's fair imo), had 5 assists, 2 goals and 4 MOTM awards. That's a very decent return.

Most of his main attacking play was in the build up to goals and not as the direct assist maker so he doesn't get the awards there. His link up play after Christmas on the left with Blind and Fellaini was pivotal, especially int eh City game where he was amazing.

Young had a very good season last season and fair play to him for turning it around. He's a talented footballer no doubt but he's not near top tier, he doesn't have that X factor in his game, or at least not on any sort of regular basis.

He is a somewhat safe and reliable option for a manager as in, he will always put a shift in, help out the full back defensively and hold possession and go on a dribble. He's the type of wide player that Fergie relied on more and more in his latter years. He more often than not had at least one playing(Valencia being another, even when he lost his form he would often get selected) and I always though that was to compensate for the lack of quality in the centre of midfield. The midfield pairing weren't good enough to have say the likes of Nani and Giggs on either wing. Fergie compensated with his wide players, playing one very attacking minded one and one more pragmatic less spectacular player, who would work back as much as forward, providing cover to the defence.

Now I know Van Gaal doesn't play the same system but still, the midfield players are there now. There's three of them as well, more often than not. It's time to have the "wide" players offering predominantly attacking skills and as near top tier as possible. We play with one striker now so it's really important that the more forward players offer goals and assists and Young for all his endeavour offers little of either. Hell, even Di Maria who had maybe a good two months in a Utd shirt showed the value of having a real threat for goals and assists.

I know there's a lot of love for Mata on here and I like him as a player but his lack of pace in the Utd set up always has me questioning his selection on the right. I'd love to see two pacey, tricky players either side of Rooney, with a three behind of the two Ss and Herrera. A new CB to take charge at the back with De Gea still behind the sticks and then I think there would be a real title challenge next season.

Sand

Jayop wrote: »

Last season he played 26 games in the league, had an average whoscored rating of 7.23 (I know ratings are subjective but that's fair imo), had 5 assists, 2 goals and 4 MOTM awards. That's a very decent return.

Most of his main attacking play was in the build up to goals and not as the direct assist maker so he doesn't get the awards there. His link up play after Christmas on the left with Blind and Fellaini was pivotal, especially int eh City game where he was amazing.

Angel Di Maria delivered more assists (10), more goals (3), more key passes (41 vs 29 for Young) and more forward passes, both in absolute terms and and as percentage of their total passes. He did this playing significantly less minutes than Young (1640 vs. 2065), playing so badly that people dismiss him as a failure and a flop.

Young played okay and had a good season overall, but even LVG noted he is simply not in that top bracket of creative or effective players. Di Maria having a terrible season outperforms him. He's an effective squad player. I don't think he should be dismissed or run down for his effort and undoubted professionalism. But he's not someone who is going to be a first team player in a side that will seriously trouble the best in Europe.

Jayop

Sand wrote: »

Angel Di Maria delivered more assists (10), more goals (3), more key passes (41 vs 29 for Young) and more forward passes, both in absolute terms and and as percentage of their total passes. He did this playing significantly less minutes than Young (1640 vs. 2065), playing so badly that people dismiss him as a failure and a flop.

Young played okay and had a good season overall, but even LVG noted he is simply not in that top bracket of creative or effective players. Di Maria having a terrible season outperforms him. He's an effective squad player. I don't think he should be dismissed or run down for his effort and undoubted professionalism. But he's not someone who is going to be a first team player in a side that will seriously trouble the best in Europe.

DiMaria created and scored most of those in his first few games, after that he was truly ****e. Caused us no end of problems by giving away possession around the halfway line tine and time again.

I never said he was in the top tier and what started this discussion was me leaving him out of my first choice line up for next year in favour of Depay.

wadacrack

havent seen any of pre-season. how have the new signings looked Depay, Darmian Schnedierlein

Pro. F

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Possible handball at 35 seconds (would be harsh)

Possible handball at 54 seconds (would be harsh)

Trip at 1:35

Possible push in back at 4:47

He certainly likes to use his arms in that clip

All of those (except for maybe for the first) would just be wrong decisions from the ref and only one, the first one, could be attributed to Smalling making a mistake to give the ref that opportunity. So yes he could have given away 3 or 4 penalties, in the same way that any player doing defending in the box could have the ref make an incorrect against them. These are spurious criticisms of a defender.

And what about the incidents of him just getting hit by the ball you were claiming? Where did they happen?

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Smalling is also using his arms alot in the clip ,fair amount of pushing ,shoving and grabbing .

Like all centre-backs. There's no problem with how he's using his hands in that video.

Roquentin

wadacrack wrote: »

havent seen any of pre-season. how have the new signings looked Depay, Darmian Schnedierlein

darmian looks solid as a RB. morgan gets stuck in and wins possession. probably not at 100% yet. depay has being hot and cold for me. some good things, some bad. looks like he knows how to old on to the ball which is a +

sorry should say i only have seen the barcelona match

Vertigo100

TheDoc wrote: »

da fuq, thought it was white hart lane?

Nope at home. Was gonna go but baby vertigo threw a spanner in that one.

Jayop

Not sure if you have seen this before. It was posted online back when Kenny got the job at liverpool a few years ago.

All turn to Kopites 26, 1-40

Mitch Connor

Disappointing that it looks like we are going to get into August without buying the centre back and forward player we need.

I wounder if it is because LVG has an opinion that we are ok (deluded imo) or United have simply failed to get the signings he has wanted so far.

I think it is insane that we are seemingly not in for Otamendi - how can we go from seemingly it being certain we wanted a centre back (and striker) to being happy with seemingly having Blind as prominent option at CB. And also having Hernandez who LVG wanted no part of 12 months. Its a very odd situation. The good work done with BS and MS in particular, looks like it is slipping away to a poor summer.

Hopefully it is just all the journos everywhere not having a clue - De Telegraf being quiet is particularly worrying though.

v3ttel

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Disappointing that it looks like we are going to get into August without buying the centre back and forward player we need.

I wounder if it is because LVG has an opinion that we are ok (deluded imo) or United have simply failed to get the signings he has wanted so far.

That's a concern that we haven't bought a CB yet, but in fairness, we've signed 5 players. In an ideal world, everyone would be in by August, but we've done a huge chunk of our business. 4 new players went on pre-season tour. We haven't "failed to get the signings" he has wanted so far. Everything is not going to come off in the click of Ed Woodward's sexy fingers. We have to be realistic here.

RB is sorted, CM is more than sorted, we've bought one of the most talented young players in Europe. He has been plugging the holes in the side one by one. There is absolutely no way he is "deluded".

We are potentially 3 players (CB, ST, RW) away from challenging on all 4 fronts. Compared to where we were 12 months ago, looking forward to the first season without champions league in donkeys years, it's pretty f*cking positive.

Also, we've signed Bastian f*cking Schweinsteiger.

TL;DR: LVG isn't "deluded". Woodward hasn't "failed" to get the players LVG wants. That's just the way of the world. More signings are on the way IMHO.