Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015 - Mod Post in OP 23/07

Mitch Connor

RayCun wrote: »

But if the Ramos saga has the effect of keeping De Gea - if the club said "you want De Gea? Well, we want Ramos. If you won't deal then neither will we" - I don't care if it ends in Ramos getting a better contract.

And it doesn't look like Van Gaal decided he needed a CB and will be screwed if Ramos doesn't move. Ramos was someone who would improve the team if we got him, not someone who would make or break the team

but I, and many, disagree with LVG on that - we need at least 1 CB better than we have, as the lot we have haven't proven themeselves good enough at this stage (in the opinion of some).

Obviously our opinions don't matter, but it doesn't mean we can't be annoyed at LVG failing to address what we see as a massive weakness in the squad.

Pro. F

Rossi IRL wrote: »

And our best center mid from last season gets dropped? Do people who leave out Herrera not watch games or something?

Of course I watch the fùcking games.

Pro. F

bangkok wrote: »

no Schweinsteiger??

Somebody is going to get dropped and it makes more sense to drop Schweinsteiger and Herrera if you follow the normal LVG way of going about these things.

bangkok

Pro. F wrote: »

Somebody is going to get dropped and it makes more sense to drop Schweinsteiger and Herrera if you follow the normal LVG way of going about these things.

yea I would imagine its schneiderlain who is not playing though if bastian is fit.

Pro. F

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

He did a lot of his damage from central positions last season.

I wouldn't see those performances as good justification for playing Di Maria central.

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Anyway, it's a moot point. A schematic of starting points doesn't illustrate movement. If he started in the middle, I'd see him making diagonal runs out left to either get in crosses or make space in the middle for Depay who would have come inside.

Those formations do indicate who will be defending where. Movement happens but you can still see the difference between a wide player and a central player in Van Gaal's teams, and in most teams.

Liam O

Fellaini had more of an impact than Herrera last season imo. Carrick too probably. Though the best period by far was when all 3 of them were playing together so it's splitting hairs really...

Pro. F

bangkok wrote: »

yea I would imagine its schneiderlain who is not playing though if bastian is fit.

It could well end up that way, because Schweinsteiger is just better than the other two. But Van Gaal likes his disciplined, hard working CMs and he lets his wide players be very attacking sometimes, so it makes sense that it would be Carrick and Schneiderlin getting the nod for the start of the season. And as it stands that is what we've been seeing in pre-season.

homerjay2005

Liam O wrote: »

Fellaini had more of an impact than Herrera last season imo. Carrick too probably. Though the best period by far was when all 3 of them were playing together so it's splitting hairs really...

am sorry, but this is simply incorrect.

Herrera was our best outfield player last season. fellaini had 4 or 5 decent games and scored a few goals and suddenly he is the new Messi. his performances were completely overrated and also, Herrera was horrendously underrated last season.

ill put it to you this way, with Fellaini in the team we are horrible to watch, with herrera our tempo, passing, creativity and everything else that Fellaini cannot offer, goes up considerably.

Herrera should be the first midfielder on the team-sheet this season.

Adamocovic

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

I have been banging the Mata, previously Kagawa, at 10 drum for years but Van Gaal, Moyes, Mourinho and whoever his manager was in Spain have all played him wide so I don't see it happening

I agree playing just behind the forward is his best position (when he was Chelseas player of the year he played most games there) but other managers don't just always play him out wide as you say, he is one of those midfielders who managers will play in various positions because he can put in a solid display in a variety of them, be it out wide, in front of the forward or in the centre of midfield.

Gather round kids it's time for a tale of stats...

Total Appearances for Mata (LEAGUE/CL/INT): 239

Starting as AM (Number 10 Role): 62
26%

Now let us see his stats for AMR and MR: 43
18%

Compared to AML and ML: 79 (Most of which with Valencia)
33%

For his time with us during his 48 appearances in League his starting positions have been divided up to:
AM:14 (29%)
RM/AMR:16 (33%)
CM: 10 (21%)
LM/AML: 1 (2%)
Subs: 7 (15%)

Compared to Chelsea (total league games 82):
AM: 27(33%)
RM/AMR: 21 (26%)
CM: 0 (0%)
LM/AML: 23 (28%)
Subs: 11 (13%)

I'm not sure about what positions he was subbed on but you can see in both spellls for us and Chelsea he has nearly been used equally in three different positions. Same is more or less applied to his time at Valencia. With Chelsea most of his starts game either the left or right wing but also played quite a bit in the AM role. For us left wing not really at all, mostly AM or AMR and a spell when he was played at CM.

I agree that I feel his best position is AM but he can play out in a lot of positions when needed, which is why managers tend to move him around at times to fit certain purposes or allow them to bring in another player into AM and keep him in the team.

bangkok

Liam O wrote: »

Fellaini had more of an impact than Herrera last season imo. Carrick too probably. Though the best period by far was when all 3 of them were playing together so it's splitting hairs really...

against hull yes....

Liam O

homerjay2005 wrote: »

am sorry, but this is simply incorrect.

Herrera was our best outfield player last season. fellaini had 4 or 5 decent games and scored a few goals and suddenly he is the new Messi. his performances were completely overrated and also, Herrera was horrendously underrated last season.

ill put it to you this way, with Fellaini in the team we are horrible to watch, with herrera our tempo, passing, creativity and everything else that Fellaini cannot offer, goes up considerably.

Herrera should be the first midfielder on the team-sheet this season.

They played almost the same amount of minutes, a lot with each other, in pretty much mirrored positions. I thought that they both had similar impacts but Fellaini for how much opposition fans hated him goes ahead.

Cantona's Collars

I've a feeling Mata will do a lot better wide with Darmian behind him,Valencia's fear of open spaces and negative play would hold anybody back who's trying to link up with him.
I recall one game last season and you could see the exasperation on the face of Mata as he went to play Valencia into space only to see Val turned his back and was ambling towards the halfway line with no interest in attacking.
Even in glimpses,Darmian looks a better attacking full back which is damning on Val considering he started as a winger and by that reckoning should be a bigger threat.

bangkok

Liam O wrote: »

They played almost the same amount of minutes, a lot with each other, in pretty much mirrored positions. I thought that they both had similar impacts but Fellaini for how much opposition fans hated him goes ahead.

im sorry but its chalk and cheese. Herrera has skill, vision, can tackle, dribble, pass, moves the ball seamlessly, wonderful control on his shots (6 goals for 7 shots or something like that), technique.

Fellaini has very little of the above apart from making himself a nuisance

Alf Veedersane

Pro. F wrote: »

I wouldn't see those performances as good justification for playing Di Maria central.

I'm curious: why?

Pro. F wrote: »

Those formations do indicate who will be defending where. Movement happens but you can still see the difference between a wide player and a central player in Van Gaal's teams, and in most teams.

It's down to interpretation of what you're actually representing with the line-up but again, I just want to hear your point of view: explain why you would have ADM starting left with (presumably) Depay in the middle of the three and how it would differ from the other way around in a meaningful way?

Liam O

Adamocovic wrote: »

I agree playing just behind the forward is his best position (when he was Chelseas player of the year he played most games there) but other managers don't just always play him out wide as you say, he is one of those midfielders who managers will play in various positions because he can put in a solid display in a variety of them, be it out wide, in front of the forward or in the centre of midfield.

Gather round kids it's time for a tale of stats...

Total Appearances for Mata (LEAGUE/CL/INT): 239

Starting as AM (Number 10 Role): 62
26%

Now let us see his stats for AMR and MR: 43
18%

Compared to AML and ML: 79 (Most of which with Valencia)
33%

For his time with us during his 48 appearances in League his starting positions have been divided up to:
AM:14 (29%)
RM/AMR:16 (33%)
CM: 10 (21%)
LM/AML: 1 (2%)
Subs: 7 (15%)

Compared to Chelsea (total league games 82):
AM: 27(33%)
RM/AMR: 21 (26%)
CM: 0 (0%)
LM/AML: 23 (28%)
Subs: 11 (13%)

I'm not sure about what positions he was subbed on but you can see in both spellls for us and Chelsea he has nearly been used equally in three different positions. Same is more or less applied to his time at Valencia. With Chelsea most of his starts game either the left or right wing but also played quite a bit in the AM role. For us left wing not really at all, mostly AM or AMR and a spell when he was played at CM.

I agree that I feel his best position is AM but he can play out in a lot of positions when needed, which is why managers tend to move him around at times to fit certain purposes or allow them to bring in another player into AM and keep him in the team.

Where do you get those stats can I ask? Another very good post, too many stats though so I got a bit bored

Adamocovic

Liam O wrote: »

Where do you get those stats can I ask? Another very good post, too many stats though so I got a bit bored

Ha I think i'll take the title of boring king :P

Use a variety of websites, mostly whoscored as it is very good for positional stats. Then I sneakily combine the information in work making it look like I am working on a project :pac:

Pro. F

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

I'm curious: why?

Because Di Maria and the team weren't playing particularly effectively.

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

It's down to interpretation of what you're actually representing with the line-up but again, I just want to hear your point of view: explain why you would have ADM starting left with (presumably) Depay in the middle of the three and how it would differ from the other way around in a meaningful way?

Di Maria isn't much of a goal threat, but Depay is. So if Depay is central, he will be closer to the opposition goal more often than the left-winger who will have to track back deeper and more frequently. Also, Di Maria is a better crosser than Depay, and most players for that matter, so he would get more opportunities to cross the ball when playing wide left.

Jayop

DiMaria shouldn't be starting this season without proving himself first.

bangkok

Jayop wrote: »

DiMaria shouldn't be starting this season without proving himself first.

well seeing as PSG are about to splash 40+ m on him I doubt he will be sitting on the bench for them

Pro. F

Jayop wrote: »

DiMaria shouldn't be starting this season without proving himself first.

The best chance of him proving himself would be to give him a few starts.

Alf Veedersane

Pro. F wrote: »

Di Maria isn't much of a goal threat, but Depay is. So if Depay is central, he will be closer to the opposition goal more often than the left-winger who will have to track back deeper and more frequently. Also, Di Maria is a better crosser than Depay, and most players for that matter, so he would get more opportunities to cross the ball when playing wide left.

I'm not arguing with the goal threat but if I was managing them, it'd be oh-so dynamic.

But my main reason for linign them out that way is based on ADM making diagonal runs wide and making space in the middle to allow Depay more room and to get him in a position to cross.

I don't fundamentally disagree with you.

But it's not alll that likely it's going to be an issue of where you position ADM anyway.

jayo26

Didnt see any press conference for past couple days but is there any updates on schweinsteigers injury will he be back for the psg game?

Jayop

Pro. F wrote: »

The best chance of him proving himself would be to give him a few starts.

bangkok wrote: »

well seeing as PSG are about to splash 40+ m on him I doubt he will be sitting on the bench for them

He was sat ont he bench at the end of last season with other players playing better than him. He's missed all of the preseason so there's very little to justify him walking into the first team other than a fancy name.

bangkok

Jayop wrote: »

He was sat ont he bench at the end of last season with other players playing better than him. He's missed all of the preseason so there's very little to justify him walking into the first team other than a fancy name.

he is finished at Man Utd, will sign for PSG in the next few days.

Roquentin

i hope they play hardball over di maria. has to be at least 45+ . we can afford to keep him. either way we win i think

jayo26

Off topic but see Ian Holloway is doing football league punditry for sky this season i would love to see him on soccer saturday they would be some buzz with him

Vic Vinegar

jayo26 wrote: »

Didnt see any press conference for past couple days but is there any updates on schweinsteigers injury will he be back for the psg game?

He tweeted a few days that he's back in training so he will probably play some part in the game later.

Pro. F

Jayop wrote: »

He was sat ont he bench at the end of last season with other players playing better than him. He's missed all of the preseason so there's very little to justify him walking into the first team other than a fancy name.

He only missed preseason because he was playing in the Copa, so it's not like he is going to take much time to get back up to speed. Also, he has a bit more to him than just a fancy name. He is actually quite good.

If he stays then it would be in the best interests of the club to help him get back to form as quickly as possible.

Jayop

bangkok wrote: »

he is finished at Man Utd, will sign for PSG in the next few days.

I agree.

Pro. F wrote: »

He only missed preseason because he was playing in the Copa, so it's not like he is going to take much time to get back up to speed. Also, he has a bit more to him than just a fancy name. He is actually quite good.

If he stays then it would be in the best interests of the club to help him get back to form as quickly as possible.

It would be in the best interests of the club to pick the players for the opening game which give us the best chance of getting off to a winning start. I'm nowhere near convinced that DiMaria if still at the club fits that bill.

Currently I'd have Depay, Mata, Young and even possibly the likes of Lingard and Januzaj ahead of him in the pecking order. If a player performs then he should keep his place, if he loses his place he should have to fight to get it back and not just have it handed to him.

Bleating Lamb

Posted the other day...Havnt seen any preseason action...how is Luke Shaw playing?....does it look like he will start season as first choice left back?

Vic Vinegar

Bleating Lamb wrote: »

Posted the other day...Havnt seen any preseason action...how is Luke Shaw playing?....does it look like he will start season as first choice left back?

Luke Shaw has been pretty good, LvG said he expects big things from him this season.

Cantona's Collars

Bleating Lamb wrote: »

Posted the other day...Havnt seen any preseason action...how is Luke Shaw playing?....does it look like he will start season as first choice left back?

Looking good and a real threat down the right with Young,in fact a lot of our decent attacks have come down that side with him getting forward.

homerjay2005

bangkok wrote: »

he is finished at Man Utd, will sign for PSG in the next few days.

if PSG dont pay the money, he aint going anywhere.

it could run and run for weeks yet until PSG either pay it or say f*ck off. to be honest, it would be better for us if its concluded quickly.

Jayop

Shaw looks lean. They said on MUTV the other day that he took a fitness coach on holidays off his own initiative. I really like to see that from a young player. Shows a desire to be better.

Pro. F

Jayop wrote: »

It would be in the best interests of the club to pick the players for the opening game which give us the best chance of getting off to a winning start. I'm nowhere near convinced that DiMaria if still at the club fits that bill.

Currently I'd have Depay, Mata, Young and even possibly the likes of Lingard and Januzaj ahead of him in the pecking order. If a player performs then he should keep his place, if he loses his place he should have to fight to get it back and not just have it handed to him.

Well I don't agree that Young, Lingard and Januzaj are currently better than him. We've not seen him yet in preseason but he had a solid Copa and he's a much better player than any of them when on form. But even if he did need some time to get back up to speed, it strikes me as short term thinking to not give him the best chance of getting into form since he is so much better than the other options and the team set up currently being used actually suits him now.

Kerrydude1981

jayo26 wrote: »

Off topic but see Ian Holloway is doing football league punditry for sky this season i would love to see him on soccer saturday they would be some buzz with him

I hope they have him on for a few PL games as well,he would be a breath of fresh air and a change from "top top player" Redknapp.

Bleating Lamb

zerks wrote: »

Looking good and a real threat down the right with Young,in fact a lot of our decent attacks have come down that side with him getting forward.

......thanks,presume you meant down the left.

Rayne Wooney

Adamocovic wrote: »

I agree playing just behind the forward is his best position (when he was Chelseas player of the year he played most games there) but other managers don't just always play him out wide as you say, he is one of those midfielders who managers will play in various positions because he can put in a solid display in a variety of them, be it out wide, in front of the forward or in the centre of midfield.

Gather round kids it's time for a tale of stats...

Total Appearances for Mata (LEAGUE/CL/INT): 239

Starting as AM (Number 10 Role): 62
26%

Now let us see his stats for AMR and MR: 43
18%

Compared to AML and ML: 79 (Most of which with Valencia)
33%

For his time with us during his 48 appearances in League his starting positions have been divided up to:
AM:14 (29%)
RM/AMR:16 (33%)
CM: 10 (21%)
LM/AML: 1 (2%)
Subs: 7 (15%)

Compared to Chelsea (total league games 82):
AM: 27(33%)
RM/AMR: 21 (26%)
CM: 0 (0%)
LM/AML: 23 (28%)
Subs: 11 (13%)

I'm not sure about what positions he was subbed on but you can see in both spellls for us and Chelsea he has nearly been used equally in three different positions. Same is more or less applied to his time at Valencia. With Chelsea most of his starts game either the left or right wing but also played quite a bit in the AM role. For us left wing not really at all, mostly AM or AMR and a spell when he was played at CM.

I agree that I feel his best position is AM but he can play out in a lot of positions when needed, which is why managers tend to move him around at times to fit certain purposes or allow them to bring in another player into AM and keep him in the team.

You made your point well, I'm starting to think Mata prefers less pressure of playing wide to being central and carrying the burden of being the main creator though. Out wide he is sort of a freelance playmaker, coming in and out of the game when he chooses, sometimes in the games he plays as number 10 he comes deep and forces the issue too much

I think that's where the void lies if Di Maria leaves, watching his last season with Madrid he was fantastic at grabbing the game by the neck, wanted the ball at all times. I'm not sure Pedro fills that gap enough. Give me Pedro and Muller and I'll be happy but I can't see it happening

Jayop

Pro. F wrote: »

Well I don't agree that Young, Lingard and Januzaj are currently better than him. We've not seen him yet in preseason but he had a solid Copa and he's a much better player than any of them when on form. But even if he did need some time to get back up to speed, it strikes me as short term thinking to not give him the best chance of getting into form since he is so much better than the other options and the team set up currently being used actually suits him now.

Short term thinking would be putting a player in who's been out of form. Not good for the game in front of you and not good for squad morale.

I'd play him off the bench Vs Spurs and give him a start in some of the potentially easier games we have after to try to get him right for the Liverpool game.

Jayop

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

You made your point well, I'm starting to think Mata prefers less pressure of playing wide to being central and carrying the burden of being the main creator though. Out wide he is sort of a freelance playmaker, coming in and out of the game when he chooses, sometimes in the games he plays as number 10 he comes deep and forces the issue too much

I think that's where the void lies if Di Maria leaves, watching his last season with Madrid he was fantastic at grabbing the game by the neck, wanted the ball at all times. I'm not sure Pedro fills that gap enough. Give me Pedro and Muller and I'll be happy but I can't see it happening

One thing I#ll say about Mata is that he probably really needs a player like Herrera who is on his wavelength to get the best out of him. Will be interesting to see how he is on the right with Depay central.

jayo26

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

I hope they have him on for a few PL games as well,he would be a breath of fresh air and a change from "top top player" Redknapp.

Yeh i agree he is one of the most honest people in football i love listening to his interviews. Jaimie and caraggher do my head in.

Trond

I think Mata will benefit the most from our new sexy midfield.

He did well given his skills in the area when tracking back last season. Its clearly not his gig though. He got a good few yellow cards. With a solid midfield behind him I think he'll shine ever more whether its out wide or more centrally.

adox

While I like Herrera as a footballer I do think he is over rated by many on here.

He can look excellent but he does make some silly mistakes. Theres also plenty of games where he has little or no impact and the game passes him by.

I would still have him as a starter in a CM 3 with the two Ss.

beno619

adox wrote: »

While I like Herrera as a footballer I do thin he is over rated by many on here.

He can look excellent but he does make some silly mistakes. Theres also plenty of games where he has little or no impact and the game passes him by.

I would still have him as a starter in a CM 3 with the two Ss.

I get what your saying but after all it was only his first season last year, I expected him to improve regardless of who was brought in.

He also had to do it all on his own when Carrick was out injured, a few games did pass him by but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for the aforementioned reasons.

Jayop

adox wrote: »

While I like Herrera as a footballer I do think he is over rated by many on here.

He can look excellent but he does make some silly mistakes. Theres also plenty of games where he has little or no impact and the game passes him by.

I would still have him as a starter in a CM 3 with the two Ss.

I think that applied to him before Christmas, but once he got back into the team I don't think very many games went by him.

Trond

adox wrote: »

While I like Herrera as a footballer I do think he is over rated by many on here.

He can look excellent but he does make some silly mistakes. Theres also plenty of games where he has little or no impact and the game passes him by.

I would still have him as a starter in a CM 3 with the two Ss.

Glad you said that bit because the rest of your assessment is a bit harsh imo!

Given the lack of consistency and structure with our central midfield last season it was always going to be tough on him. I don't think the manager really trusted him in the first 3-4 months either.

LVG's preferred style of play is one that his touch and technique will really shine next season, especially with a solid base behind him.

Pro. F

Jayop wrote: »

Short term thinking would be putting a player in who's been out of form. Not good for the game in front of you and not good for squad morale.

I'd play him off the bench Vs Spurs and give him a start in some of the potentially easier games we have after to try to get him right for the Liverpool game.

But he hasn't been out of form. He played in the Copa America and was solid by his own high standards.

Jayop

Pro. F wrote: »

But he hasn't been out of form. He played in the Copa America and was solid by his own high standards.

I'm more concerned with his recent form for United, not for Argentina.

Pro. F

Jayop wrote: »

I'm more concerned with his recent form for United, not for Argentina.

But that form came when playing in a different set-up. The new set-up would suit him better. And it's not like Young has been good enough, I'd be worried about his form too.

Jayop

Young was yesterdays pointless argument. I' not going over that one again man.

From what I've seen in preseason the set up will be pretty much exactly as it was last season with a 433 so not sure what "new set-up" you mean.