Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015 - Mod Post in OP 23/07

bucketybuck

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

If the only business we do is Di Maria out and Pedro in we won't challenge for the league, if De Gea also goes and Cillisen comes in Spurs and Liverpool would fancy their chances of finishing ahead of us

Rubbish.

Even without Di Maria and Pedro we still have enough quality to finish miles ahead of those two clubs. 1 to 11 right now we still easily have one of the best teams in the league, unless you think there are a slew of Spurs or Liverpool players better than the options we have?

adox

bangkok wrote: »

Pedro would be a brilliant signing, anyone who thinks it would be an underwhelming signing has clearly never watched him play much

I really hate this reasoning.

Jayop

Liverpool an Spurs finishing above us??

Ah stahp now seriously. You do know Moyes is gone. I'd say that Coutinho is the only player that they have who would get within an arses roar of our starting 11.

As for Spurs, they've a decent keeper and Kane's a good prospect but after that they're limited enough.

bangkok

adox wrote: »

I really hate this reasoning.

Why?

Jayop

bangkok wrote: »

Why?

because it's nonsense. There's loads of reasons why a person can be underwhelmed by a player like Pedro. DiMaria proved to be utterly unerwhelming but last summer you'd probably have said the same thing.

I'm not a fan of signing older players from massive clubs who have already won everything in the game, especially one's who are surplus to requirements. They lack hunger and drive. For every one Pirlo there's a half dozen DiMaria's/

Dimithy

Jayop wrote: »

because it's nonsense. There's loads of reasons why a person can be underwhelmed by a player like Pedro. DiMaria proved to be utterly unerwhelming but last summer you'd probably have said the same thing.

I'm not a fan of signing older players from massive clubs who have already won everything in the game, especially one's who are surplus to requirements. They lack hunger and drive. For every one Pirlo there's a half dozen DiMaria's/

Surely if he lacked hunger and drive, he'd just stay at Barcelona earning lots of money, and winning lots of trophies?

Kirby

Jayop wrote: »

As for Spurs, they've a decent keeper and Kane's a good prospect but after that they're limited enough.

Eriksen is excellent. He'd easily fit into any of the top 4 sides, including United. And he's only 23. He could get even better.

Spurs will do very well to hang on to him. If they dont get top 4 this year, which is looking likely, then you cant blame him for wanting out.

adox

bangkok wrote: »

Pedro would be a brilliant signing, anyone who thinks it would be an underwhelming signing has clearly never watched him play much

Because it's arrogant in the extreme and shows a lack of understanding that others can be informed about things and hold a different opinion on it.

VW 1

Just finished watching the game there.

Did nobody give Dwight a tap on the shôulder and tell him it's Darmian and not Damian?!!

On another note Shaw was really good, and Darmian didn't do a whole lot wrong.

It's really excellent to see a player like Memphis in the team, that off the cuff trickery and unpredictability is something that has been sorely lacking since Ronaldo.

Bastian really enjoys the physical side of things, loved seeing him manhandling Ibra a few times, even though he was obviously short of fitness at this stage

bangkok

adox wrote: »

Because it's arrogant in the extreme and shows a lack of understanding that others can be informed about things and hold a different opinion on it.

300 games for barca, nearly 100 goals, 1 in 3 for a winger is class.

**** loads of assists, team player, would improve our starting 11, intelligent, good passer, crisp sharp and a winner

Backstreet Moyes

adox wrote: »

Because it's arrogant in the extreme and shows a lack of understanding that others can be informed about things and hold a different opinion on it.

When Ashley Young is your starting winger and people are underwhelmed by Pedro then they obviously have seen little of him play.

It's not arrogant or showing a lack of understanding if Pedro signs he will be by far the best winger at the club.

Jayop

Nuts102 wrote: »

When Ashley Young is your starting winger and people are underwhelmed by Pedro then they obviously have seen little of him play.

It's not arrogant or showing a lack of understanding if Pedro signs he will be by far the best winger at the club.

Wrong

adox

bangkok wrote: »

300 games for barca, nearly 100 goals, 1 in 3 for a winger is class.

**** loads of assists, team player, would improve our starting 11, intelligent, good passer, crisp sharp and a winner

You are totally missing my point.
Why didn't you bring those stats out to back up your argument to the other poster instead of saying "you obviously haven't seen much of him...?"

ElChe32

Jayop wrote: »

Wrong

Can you at least give some reasons as to why it would be underwhelming?

adox

Nuts102 wrote: »

When Ashley Young is your starting winger and people are underwhelmed by Pedro then they obviously have seen little of him play.

It's not arrogant or showing a lack of understanding if Pedro signs he will be by far the best winger at the club.

This isn't about how good or bad a player is. It's about people having differing opinions, no matter how mad they can seem. It is arrogant to say"you've obviously not seen much of him" because someone doesn't rate him as much as you.

It is arrogant. It's also condescending and a little lazy.

irish_man

Underwhelming? The man has won 5 Spanish leagues, 3 Champions Leagues, a World Cup and the Euros. Unbelievable experience. What more can you want?

The_Kew_Tour

irish_man wrote: »

Underwhelming? The man has won 5 Spanish leagues, 3 Champions Leagues, a World Cup and the Euros. Unbelievable experience. What more can you want?

A 17 yo.

We don't like old fellas on here

Backstreet Moyes

Jayop wrote: »

Wrong

So you think Young, Mata and Depay are all better than Pedro?

dubmick

Selling Di Maria for £40 million, even with instalments and currency deviations that is some shocking piece of business in twelves months.

Jayop

Nuts102 wrote: »

So you think Young, Mata and Depay are all better than Pedro?

Show me any post, anywhere on here where I or anyone else compared him negatively to any of our players or anyone else.

Jayop

irish_man wrote: »

Underwhelming? The man has won 5 Spanish leagues, 3 Champions Leagues, a World Cup and the Euros. Unbelievable experience. What more can you want?

Honours
Club
Benfica
Primeira Liga: 2009–10
Taça da Liga: 2008–09, 2009–10
Real Madrid
UEFA Champions League: 2013–14
UEFA Super Cup: 2014
La Liga: 2011–12
Copa del Rey: 2010–11, 2013–14
Supercopa de España: 2012
International
Argentina U20
FIFA U-20 World Cup: 2007
South American Youth Championship: Runner-up 2007
Argentina U23
Olympic Gold Medal: 2008
Argentina
FIFA World Cup: Runner-up 2014
Copa América: Runner-up 2015[85]
Individual
Primeira Liga: Player of the Month April 2010
2014 UEFA Champions League Final: Man of the Match[86]
UEFA Champions League Team of the Season: 2013–14
2014 FIFA World Cup: Dream Team
Olimpia de Plata: 2014
UEFA Team of the Year: 2014[87]
FIFA FIFPro World XI: 2014
Premier League Goal of the Season: 2014–15[88]


Underwhelming player despite all of that.

It's not hard to understand.

Liam McPoyle

Just a heads up, Setanta are currently running the €1 for 1 month offer. Uniteds first game is live on it and so is their match against Newcastle, details on their site.

Nalz

dubmick wrote: »

Selling Di Maria for £40 million, even with instalments and currency deviations that is some shocking piece of business in twelves months.

Crystal ball malfunction

Backstreet Moyes

Jayop wrote: »

Show me any post, anywhere on here where I or anyone else compared him negatively to any of our players or anyone else.

So why would you be underwhelmed by signing a player who is far greater than all our other wingers and for a very decent fee.

Why because Di Maria didn't have a great season what's that got to do with Pedro.

Better than all our wingers
For the price a bargain
Massive experience of winning trophies

Now tell me why you would be underwhelmed and don't try being up Di Maria because it has absolutely nothing to do with Pedro.

Jayop

Nuts102 wrote: »

So why would you be underwhelmed by signing a player who is far greater than all our other wingers and for a very decent fee.

Why because Di Maria didn't have a great season what's that got to do with Pedro.

Better than all our wingers
For the price a bargain
Massive experience of winning trophies

Now tell me why you would be underwhelmed and don't try being up Di Maria because it has absolutely nothing to do with Pedro.

I've already gave the reasons a few times.

DARK-KNIGHT

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

A 17 yo.

We don't like old fellas on here

ill be honest i read that and shuddered lol

Trigger

Jayop wrote: »

Honours
Club
Benfica
Primeira Liga: 2009–10
Taça da Liga: 2008–09, 2009–10
Real Madrid
UEFA Champions League: 2013–14
UEFA Super Cup: 2014
La Liga: 2011–12
Copa del Rey: 2010–11, 2013–14
Supercopa de España: 2012
International
Argentina U20
FIFA U-20 World Cup: 2007
South American Youth Championship: Runner-up 2007
Argentina U23
Olympic Gold Medal: 2008
Argentina
FIFA World Cup: Runner-up 2014
Copa América: Runner-up 2015[85]
Individual
Primeira Liga: Player of the Month April 2010
2014 UEFA Champions League Final: Man of the Match[86]
UEFA Champions League Team of the Season: 2013–14
2014 FIFA World Cup: Dream Team
Olimpia de Plata: 2014
UEFA Team of the Year: 2014[87]
FIFA FIFPro World XI: 2014
Premier League Goal of the Season: 2014–15[88]


Underwhelming player despite all of that.

It's not hard to understand.

So you were underwhelmed when we announced that we had signed DiMaria last year? Where you underwhelmed with his form for Real Madrid and Argentina prior to signing for us?

Jayop

Here Nuts. Reasons given multiple times.

Jayop wrote: »

because it's nonsense. There's loads of reasons why a person can be underwhelmed by a player like Pedro. DiMaria proved to be utterly unerwhelming but last summer you'd probably have said the same thing.

I'm not a fan of signing older players from massive clubs who have already won everything in the game, especially one's who are surplus to requirements. They lack hunger and drive. For every one Pirlo there's a half dozen DiMaria's/

Jayop wrote: »

Oh without a doubt if a player doesn't want to be there then I'd rather have Charley Adams bursting his considerable gut than them.

This is completely different to Darmian, different positions, different stages of career, a player stepping up in clubs Vs a player arguably stepping down. A player who excelled in his previous club Vs a player unwanted by his previous club.

Jayop wrote: »

I suppose we'll see how "vast" an upgrade he becomes. The last time I was this underwhelmed by a new forward was when Young himself signed.

I don't like buying players who are basically not wanted anymore by their club after they've won everything for them. They dont' come to the new club with any hunger and desire and usually despite all the fanfare they do nothing of note.

So rather than just repeating yourself and asking me to repeat myself try reading what I'm saying.

Nuts102 wrote: »

Anyone underwhelmed by the thoughts of signing Pedro must not have seen him play much.

As a winger he is better than Mata, Young and Depay. He will offer much needed pace and goals to the attack.

If are playing 4-3-3 i can't think of anyone better that's realistic except maybe Griezman.

Nuts102 wrote: »

When Ashley Young is your starting winger and people are underwhelmed by Pedro then they obviously have seen little of him play.

It's not arrogant or showing a lack of understanding if Pedro signs he will be by far the best winger at the club.

astradave wrote: »

So you were underwhelmed when we announced that we had signed DiMaria last year? Where you underwhelmed with his form for Real Madrid and Argentina prior to signing for us?

No, I nearly crapped myself when we signed DiMaria such was my excitement. I think he broke me if I'm honest.

Backstreet Moyes

So by your logic i presume you were against signing Schwiensteiger???

Jayop

Nuts102 wrote: »

So by your logic i presume you were against signing Schwiensteiger???

Again, have I ever said I'm against signing Pedro? No. You seem to have a habit of reading onething and taking something else from it. I didn't say I was against signing him and I didn't say he wasn't as good as our current players just to clarify for you.

As for your question, not really, but I wasn't jumping shouting from the rooftops about it and was much happier when we signed Morgan.

Basti is a player who I've loved from his break though days. He was the one player from Germany who I've always wanted to join United and I guess I was excited to have him join because of that. I also think there's no doubt that he's got the right mentality too and the leadership qualities that we lost with the mass exodus of proven winners in the last 2/3 years. He's most likely going to play a bit part rotation role with Carrick anyway.

Trigger

Jayop wrote: »

No, I nearly crapped myself when we signed DiMaria such was my excitement. I think he broke me if I'm honest.

Fair enough, so basically going by your reasons in this post, you would be underwhelmed by the signing of Pedro because DiMaria was underwhelming for United.

brinty

Agh lads can we post the
"Everybody love everybody" gif please...

Been off for a few days but still the same whining and moaning about player x,y and z...

Could probably do with a ban at this stage

Fwiw pedro - class signing if it happens,adds a scoring threat which mata and young don't offer from wide roles

PhlegmyMoses

I find it hard to justify the logic in seeing it as a slight on Pedro that he's surplus to requirements at Barca. All players in the world bar Ronaldo would probably be surplus to requirements in that frontline. Harsh assessment.

ScummyMan

dubmick wrote: »

Selling Di Maria for £40 million, even with instalments and currency deviations that is some shocking piece of business in twelves months.

Why?

The 11 assists and 4 goals in the premier league which he provided went a long way towards bringing us back to the champions league. That alone is worth the ~£10m "loss" imo.

Trigger

brinty wrote: »

Agh lads can we post the
"Everybody love everybody" gif please...

Been off for a few days but still the same whining and moaning about player x,y and z...

Could probably do with a ban at this stage

Fwiw pedro - class signing if it happens,adds a scoring threat which mata and young don't offer from wide roles

Fcuk you Brinty, no one wants your positivity here!

The_Kew_Tour

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

ill be honest i read that and shuddered lol

Ya when I read it again it just read wrong.

Not so clever am I ha

brinty

astradave wrote: »

Fcuk you Brinty, no one wants your positivity here!

Love you too
Dave

brinty

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Ya when I read it again it just read wrong.

Not so clever am I ha

You're having some week Kew...

The_Kew_Tour

brinty wrote: »

You're having some week Kew...

It's been emotional

brinty

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

It's been emotional

You can take that girly talk to After Hours... This here's s football thread
Role on next weekend
Mad for it now...

The_Kew_Tour

brinty wrote: »

You can take that girly talk to After Hours... This here's s football thread
Role on next weekend
Mad for it now...

And we still got 8 days to sign more players.

Choo choo !!

Smithwicks Man

Lads how well do ye expect Depay to do in terms of goalscoring?

Going big on a bet but not sure how confident I should be on him netting 10+ PL goals.

The_Kew_Tour

Smithwicks Man wrote: »

Lads how well do ye expect Depay to do in terms of goalscoring?

Going big on a bet but not sure how confident I should be on him netting 10+ PL goals.

Think he will hit ground running myself, but I'm glass half full guy at moment.

Maximus Alexander

Smithwicks Man wrote: »

Lads how well do ye expect Depay to do in terms of goalscoring?

Going big on a bet but not sure how confident I should be on him netting 10+ PL goals.

Everything about him says he will be a goal machine, but I've been burned before. I'm excited about him, I hope he stays injury free and plays regularly all season.

Nalz

Ugh us and South Americans... We can never have a consistently happy and normal situation with them.

Kleberson, Anderson, Forlan, Heinze, Tevez, Di Maria, Valencia, Rojo, Veron, Rafael, Fabio, Possebon, Falcao

Romero to follow suit I suppose in that regard!

Dimithy

Jayop wrote: »

Here Nuts. Reasons given multiple times.

Dimithy wrote: »

Surely if he lacked hunger and drive, he'd just stay at Barcelona earning lots of money, and winning lots of trophies?

He's not out of contract. If he leaves Barcelona, he's leaving because he want to play.
Doesn't really fit in with you idea that he would be lacking hunger and desire.

ParkRunner

My one fear of signing Pedro is that Pereira's opportunities will be limited again. He's with the club since 2011, aged 19 now, and should be making a good few first team appearances if he is going to develop into the fantastic player I believe he is going to be. Would hate to see another Pogba type situation where a potentially great player gets frustrated with lack of opportunities & leaves. Similar position with Januzaj I guess

Pro. F

Late now, but here's my thoughts on the game:

- A lot of the play in possession in the first half was great to watch. It seemed fairly unlucky to me that more clear cut chances weren't created.

- Rooney and Depay continue to look like they're going to be a very good partnership, but they're still only getting up to speed.

- I don't really like Mata on the wing, but his link-up is good (of course), he still had some sublime touches, he offered a goal threat and Darmian suits him. I'm happy to see LVG stick with it for now.

- Jones was at fault for the first goal (and DDG could have done better if he'd wanted), but not the second. Shaw should have tucked in behind him to pick up Ibra. There was nothing more Jones could do from the near post as the cross was out of his reach. I'd still have Smalling ahead of Jones.

- I don't think I can point to any particular incidents of Blind fùcking up, but I still have a hard time believing he'll be strong enough and fast enough to play CB permanently

- Young doesn't offer enough going forward for me, but his discipline and work-rare might be needed if we're going to be playing Carrick and Schweinsteiger together in the middle.

And regarding the Pedro signing, I'd rather Di Maria but Pedro would be a good signing if the price isn't too crazy (only because of his age). He wouldn't offer as much cutting edge as Di Maria, with regards to beating players with pace and dribbling (and this is what we really need), but he's more of a goal threat and more disciplined. However, this comes with the large caveat that if Pedro has been doping at Barca, he keeps it up at United; or preferably that he's always been clean so there's no issue.

Giggsy11

Pro. F wrote: »

Late now, but here's my thoughts on the game:

- Rooney and Depay continue to look like they're going to be a very good partnership, but they're still only getting up to speed.

- I don't think I can point to any particular incidents of Blind fùcking up, but I still have a hard time believing he'll be strong enough and fast enough to play CB permanently

- Young doesn't offer enough going forward for me, but his discipline and work-rare might be needed if we're going to be playing Carrick and Schweinsteiger together in the middle.
.

Agreed with most of what you said.

During the game I posted about Rooney and Depay partnership. It looked promising but Rooney just ****ed up most of the chances or build up play. I sort of liked Depay playing behind the striker.

Re Blind, he wasn't directly involved but point was where was he for both goals? It was Jones, Shaw, Darmian defending for both goals, where as Blind? If it was full back then it's sort of okay as they push higher up to join the attack but as a CB that was a big No.

Re Young, yeah he offered tactical discipline but like you said offered next to nothing going forward. Pereira in few mins did more than Young did in the whole game. We need players who can create chances as our creativity sucks.

Promising signs in the preseason. Hopefully we don't start the season like last season.

Pro. F

Giggsy11 wrote: »

It was all confusing. Some weird defensive movements I noticed today.

1. Jones was pushing so high up he was in PSG's half to win ball back leaving gaps. I'm assuming it was meant Blind should be covering the space.

2. Blind was in midfield trying to help team in possession but when we lost ball it was Jones all alone in center of defense.

Maybe that was the plan but that looked awful with gaps in center defense always.

Also third one was Shaw followed Lucas till the right back position leaving left back position completely. One switch to PSG's RW then it was all open.

Obviously Van Gaal is/was a great manager and knows what he is doing but something you see on the pitch is so so weird.

These weird movements from the centre-backs are explained in diagram 8 here. Mitch linked that the other day. I think it was linked on here last summer as well.

It was handy to have just been reading that article and then watched the PSG game just after. You could see Rooney calling Depay forward to press higher at times, then one of the CMs would step up to cover the man Depay had left behind and one of the CBs would do the same (edit) for the CM. It was exactly like the diagram.