Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015 - Mod Post in OP 23/07

The Moldy Gowl

Pro. F wrote: »

I think discussing strategy, tactics, player selections and all the rest is interesting. I think you can further your understanding by arguing for and against all the possible choices. And I know that managers make mistakes.

Easily the majority of the discussion on this forum is taken up by such discussions. You obviously don't like it. Hard luck for you.

I like the discussion.

I don't like the attitude of I know better than a football manager, or a CEO.
There is a vast difference.

Kirby

Pro. F wrote: »

I think discussing strategy, tactics, player selections and all the rest is interesting.
Easily the majority of the discussion on this forum is taken up by such discussions.

I think you will find that untrue.

Most of the time is spent discussing Ronaldo v Messi, people bickering, and posting Rachel Riley gifs.

Pro. F

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

I like the discussion.

I don't like the attitude of I know better than a football manager, or a CEO.
There is a vast difference.

Well for a discussion that you like you make a solid effort to cut it short all the time with the constant reminders that the manger knows best and there's really no point disagreeing with his decisions.

GSPfan

I done a quick youtube of Gaitan. Whats specifically wrong with him? Looks as good as anyone ive seen on youtube. Skillful and scores goals. Looks tough too.

Liam O

Is Gaitan not more of a Mata type winger? Would need at least 1 more pacy winger if ADM left imo, players getting the ball in great positions out wide and not doing anything was a big weakness last season.

I'm loving that Fellaini suddenly can't play in a possession based system now too, purely based on his height. As LVG said last year, he likes that his passes find United players. I wanted him to make the move further back this season but with Pig Killer and Schneiderlin in the team now games in there will be a lot harder to come by. He's better as the two way midfielder imo but may still have to settle for a few games here and there which is a shame given what he did last season but that's the business.

Kirby

Kirby wrote: »

I know it's a cheap shot, but you did notice the only stat on the page that mattered right? :P

Most of United possession last year was impotent. The difference between United in possession last season and this season will be quite large. Frankly I think the summer signings have been excellent and if the Gaitan rumours are true....even better.

Someone on Talksport said yesterday, that the way to defeat United is to let them have the ball!

sReq | uTeK

Pro. F wrote: »

Cool. So let's never discuss his strategy, tactics or player selections.

Again, it seems you're missing the point, I think Rex already tried to explain it to you so I won't try again.

keane2097

Pro. F wrote: »

Well for a discussion that you like you make a solid effort to cut it short all the time with the constant reminders that the manger knows best and there's really no point disagreeing with his decisions.

I think it can be an interesting mental exercise to discuss things like this while still being cognizant of the fact that without access to perfect information we're likely to come to extremely imperfect conclusions (or even come to perfect conclusions by luck and/or leaps of faith).

For instance, you discuss tactical matters in an interesting and intelligent way, but also posit that LVG's reasons for not doing things that seemed obvious to everyone were, loosely, that he was being stupid and that when he eventually got the tactics right he simply blundered into them.

That opinion, to me, is laughable and displays extreme hubris on your part, also containing a fairly large leap in logic along the lines of "I see no reason for this, therefore no reason exists".

It's pretty much a case that the discussions are interesting, but the conclusions (and particularly the force with which they're asserted) are not.

TheTownie

Liam O wrote: »

Is Gaitan not more of a Mata type winger? Would need at least 1 more pacy winger if ADM left imo, players getting the ball in great positions out wide and not doing anything was a big weakness last season.

No, Gaitan is a very fast, very good dribbler.

Adamocovic

Finally back home to the laptop, had a lovely amount of gifs and celebration posts to scout over from the weekend. What a week it has been transfer wise. Roll on the 18th now for the first game of preseason.

Time to sit back, relax, enjoy a cup of tea and let Ed take care of everything.

The Moldy Gowl

Pro. F wrote: »

Well for a discussion that you like you make a solid effort to cut it short all the time with the constant reminders that the manger knows best and there's really no point disagreeing with his decisions.

I think you are misunderstanding my gripe.
You don't fall foul of it. Just forget about it.

Nalz

United!!!

paulbok

homerjay2005 wrote: »

it saddens me that almost every team picked for next season has no Herrera in it

as ive said here before, he was our player of the year last year outside of DDG. its vital that any team we put out this year, has him in it - he is a cracking player.

It's a good complaint though considering the midfield problem for the last 6+ years

TheDoc

Selling Di Maria would be a big disappointment for me. Must be completely broken down in terms of relationship with manager and his mental state.

Gaitain is surely just the normal run of the mill linked with us every year no?

Although getting back a significant fee for Di Maria might not be the worst, he was pretty poisonous for large parts of last season bar his initial spurt. Usually youd take a massive hit on a signing like that, so recouping most of the fee might be smart business.

Cookiemunster

Doesn't sound like a man ready to leave.

https://twitter.com/1victorvaldes/status/620911741547974657

bangkok

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Doesn't sound like a man ready to leave.

https://twitter.com/1victorvaldes/status/620911741547974657

might not be ready to leave, but he might be getting ready for being sold

Nalz

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Doesn't sound like a man ready to leave.

https://twitter.com/1victorvaldes/status/620911741547974657

Can't open that, what did he say

RobertKK

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Doesn't sound like a man ready to leave.

https://twitter.com/1victorvaldes/status/620911741547974657

At home preparing to be ready to replace De Gea...

RobertKK

Trilla wrote: »

Can't open that, what did he say

After a Hard Training Session this morning, i am working hard for this Season ! Come on You Reds !!!!

sReq | uTeK

RobertKK wrote: »

After a Hard Training Session this morning, i am working hard for this Season ! Come on You Reds !!!!

Did he travel?

Ed The Equalizer

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Did he travel?

Not selected

sReq | uTeK

Ed The Equalizer wrote: »

Not selected

Bye bye! Anyone have a list of who was left behind? I'd understand if he was off the back of a long season, but he's sat on a bench he needs pre season if he was going to be replacing De Gea. I'd say this is further evidence of De Gea staying

homerjay2005

as regards Gaitan, this is from a benfica fan who i work with -

• he was sensational last season for benfica, made the team of the year and was one of the top players in the league.
  
• 4 goals, 16 assists - excellent stats for a winger.
  
• he was out injured for 7 weeks.
  
• he has a problem with diving.
  
• he was far superior to nani last season who went from sublime to awful and back, all season.
  
• he is quick.
  
• the belief with benfica fans is that finally, they will lose him this summer and United is the most likely destination

homerjay2005

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Bye bye! Anyone have a list of who was left behind? I'd understand if he was off the back of a long season, but he's sat on a bench he needs pre season if he was going to be replacing De Gea. I'd say this is further evidence of De Gea staying

Valdes, Rafael, Reece James, Powell and Varela - would have expected all 5 of them to be involved to be honest.

Rojo and Di Maria are still on hols.

wadacrack

homerjay2005 wrote: »

as regards Gaitan, this is from a benfica fan who i work with -

• he was sensational last season for benfica, made the team of the year and was one of the top players in the league.
• 4 goals, 16 assists - excellent stats for a winger.
• he was out injured for 7 weeks.
• he has a problem with diving.
• he was far superior to nani last season who went from sublime to awful and back,season.
• he is quick.
• the belief with benfica fans is that finally, they will lose him this summer and United is the most likely destination

We have Di Maria, Depay, Young in wide positions could do with another winger but a striker is needed

RVN10

What i cant understand here is... We still seem to believe the sh!t twitter spouts here. Until such time there is concrete evidence a player is coming or going can people just relax.. Believing bullsh1t stories from unknown sources.

bangkok

homerjay2005 wrote: »

as regards Gaitan, this is from a benfica fan who i work with -

• he was sensational last season for benfica, made the team of the year and was one of the top players in the league.
• 4 goals, 16 assists - excellent stats for a winger.
• he was out injured for 7 weeks.
• he has a problem with diving.
• he was far superior to nani last season who went from sublime to awful and back, all season.
• he is quick.
• the belief with benfica fans is that finally, they will lose him this summer and United is the most likely destination

Nani scored 12 goals last season.. Is he any better than Nani? I don't think he is. if we are signing him di maria is def gone

UnitedIrishman

If Di Maria goes I wouldn't be surprised if both parties were mutually in agreement of it - LVG not seeing where he fits into our system and Di Maria wanting out of the club. It's easy to say 'I want to fight for my place' etc, and in the background have Mendes sorting out a deal with PSG.

If he goes, he goes. He's a serious talent and would prefer us to hang onto him another season but I think there's every chance that he wants to go elsewhere after what has happened last season.

JamboMac

Trilla wrote: »

Pardon the ignorance but what is le Perisien, a paper? And why did it fill you with confidence to say that it looks like he's gone?

I'm guessing it's like Le marca is for Madrid, it doesn't necessarily make me think it's 100% guaranteed but neither would some tweet.

adox

wadacrack wrote: »

We have Di Maria, Depay, Young in wide positions could do with another winger but a striker is needed

Twitter has actually been the only reliable source for Utd transfers this summer, funnily enough.

Trond

bangkok wrote: »

Nani scored 12 goals last season.. Is he any better than Nani? I don't think he is. if we are signing him di maria is def gone

Nani is more talented but Gaitan is by the far more consistent so for me a better option. His assist record over the last few years has been impressive.

He'd be good signing on many levels but he isn't what Id call a top tier talent.

Liam O

wadacrack wrote: »

We have Di Maria, Depay, Young in wide positions could do with another winger but a striker is needed

So 1 great winger, one potentially great but making a big step up and 1 average winger for 2 positions? Mata may retake his position on the right but the lack of pace was a problem last season. Another top winger would be welcome even without ADM leaving imo. Wilson and Chico isn't bad backup for Rooney imo. It's only for 1 position but a different kind of option could be needed.

Lord TSC

Would be very sad to see DiMaria go cause I don't think last season is the best example of what he is capable of at all. Would really like to see him get one more season before judging.

At the same time, his sale would cover he other four signings we have made so far, and could leave us with more than enough to get a superstar replacement like Bale. It will be disappointing if he goes, but I don't think it will be utterly devastating to the team given his role in it last season and the fact I think we can replace adequately.

Nalz

JamboMac wrote: »

I'm guessing it's like Le marca is for Madrid, it doesn't necessarily make me think it's 100% guaranteed but neither would some tweet.

So it doesn't "look like he's gone" then to you :-)

Giggsy11

Pro. F wrote: »

I agree, he's not that good. I'd still rate Carrick as a better DM. Schneiderlin has a similar style to Carrick - intelligent, disciplined, good defensively, good passing when given space, but relatively weak close control - and he's younger and more energetic. He can also play a more box-to-box role, so if he could develop his goal scoring then he could work very well in that role in this system. But that's a big if.

He is very good. Carrick and Schneiderlin are different type of players, meaning their strengths are different.

Carrick is undoubtedly better passer and his range of passing is excellent, but Schneiderlin offers plenty of energy, physical presence and excellent tackler. His defensive contribution is better IMO.

Also his close control is not great but it's very good for PL range.

I would love to see midfield trio of Schweinsteiger, Schneiderlin, Herrera. Not that I want Carrick out but with these 3 players opponents hardly get time on the ball.

Rossi IRL

wadacrack wrote: »

We have Di Maria, Depay, Young in wide positions could do with another winger but a striker is needed

Mata played the majority of last season right wing, we also have januzaj, pereira and valencia

Pro. F

keane2097 wrote: »

I think it can be an interesting mental exercise to discuss things like this while still being cognizant of the fact that without access to perfect information we're likely to come to extremely imperfect conclusions (or even come to perfect conclusions by luck and/or leaps of faith).

For instance, you discuss tactical matters in an interesting and intelligent way, but also posit that LVG's reasons for not doing things that seemed obvious to everyone were, loosely, that he was being stupid and that when he eventually got the tactics right he simply blundered into them.

That opinion, to me, is laughable and displays extreme hubris on your part, also containing a fairly large leap in logic along the lines of "I see no reason for this, therefore no reason exists".

It's pretty much a case that the discussions are interesting, but the conclusions (and particularly the force with which they're asserted) are not.

I get that it can be very hubristic to be overly critical of a manager's decisions. And I certainly agree that without all the information that the manager has available to him it is quite likely that from time to time we will be mistaken about what is really going on. But I also think that many people show far too much blind faith in managers. That just because any particular manager has a history of success that every decision they make is a good one.

With regards to LVG's performance last season. Firstly, the potential problems with the selections and formations weren't obvious to everybody. There were only a few of us pointing them out. Most people were fawning over the superstar names and assuming that formations and line-ups that Van Gaal was choosing were going to work.

Secondly, I've always said that there could be factors we're unaware of shaping Van Gaal's decisions. I have also been looking for and quick to acknowledge whenever I've seen possible glimpses at the reasoning behind his decisions (like Rooney's work-rate at 10 being a possible reason as to why he would be picked there ahead of Mata in the narrow formations).

Most importantly, I've been open to looking at possible explanations for why Van Gaal did what he did. But nobody has provided any.

The conversation does end up becoming overly black and white because of the constant back and forth of differing opinions, but your "loose" description of my side of that conversation is not fair or accurate.

223vmax

Whats the story/latest with ADM hamstring injury?

adox

Lord TSC wrote: »

Would be very sad to see DiMaria go cause I don't think last season is the best example of what he is capable of at all. Would really like to see him get one more season before judging.

At the same time, his sale would cover he other four signings we have made so far, and could leave us with more than enough to get a superstar replacement like Bale. It will be disappointing if he goes, but I don't think it will be utterly devastating to the team given his role in it last season and the fact I think we can replace adequately.

Same here. Its also the fact that we now have real pace on both sides, which can only help the team.

If he does go(and its a big if imo) I hope he is replaced properly.

adox

Rossi IRL wrote: »

Mata played the majority of last season right wing, we also have januzaj, pereira and valencia

Mata for all his talent just doesnt have the pace which I think the team needs from its wide players. Januzaj and Pereira are works in progress but still not ready for consistent first team action. Valencia - God no.

Pro. F

Giggsy11 wrote: »

He is very good. Carrick and Schneiderlin are different type of players, meaning their strengths are different.

Carrick is undoubtedly better passer and his range of passing is excellent, but Schneiderlin offers plenty of energy, physical presence and excellent tackler. His defensive contribution is better IMO.

Also his close control is not great but it's very good for PL range.

I would love to see midfield trio of Schweinsteiger, Schneiderlin, Herrera. Not that I want Carrick out but with these 3 players opponents hardly get time on the ball.

I agree he's good defensively, but not as good as Carrick, because he doesn't read the game as well imo.

I don't know about his close control being very good by PL standards, but most PL DMs are lacking in that area anyway, so it's not a measure that I would value.

TheDoc

RVN10 wrote: »

What i cant understand here is... We still seem to believe the sh!t twitter spouts here. Until such time there is concrete evidence a player is coming or going can people just relax.. Believing bullsh1t stories from unknown sources.

That's like saying "People still read boards????? sure they are all pubescent kids pretending to have an adult opinion on stuff". IE taking an entire platform and tarnishing it with an incorrect tag.

While there is many accounts and people on Twitter who try generate traffic by pretending to be football agents or "ITK's" , there is a large pool of credible sources and information on Twitter relating to football.

Every single transfer I've been following in the last 4-5 years has first surfaced via Twitter, and then confirmed via Twitter, before any of the established outlets.

If you want to wait on BBC, or Sky, or lads holding the shirt, that is absolutely totally fine.

But there is plenty of people who want to keep in touch with the latest news or get the inside track. For some its a way to tide over the work day, for others its a genuine interest.

While there is definitly some Twitter accounts that shouldn't feature in here as anyway credible, there is plenty who are.

Rossi IRL

adox wrote: »

Mata for all his talent just doesnt have the pace which I think the team needs

Valencia - God no.

I remember mata scoring 2 crackers away to liverpool from right wing last season, his lack of pace didnt stop him then.

Id rather have mata and depay on the wings than have depay and gaitan on the pitch and a sad mata on the bench.

markcahill1985

Wonder if the plan might be a Di Maria and Cavani swap? Also the Gaitan rumours won't go away; replacement for ADM?

Liam O

Rossi IRL wrote: »

I remember mata scoring 2 crackers away to liverpool from right wing last season, his lack of pace didnt stop him then.

Id rather have mata and depay on the wings than have depay and gaitan on the pitch and a sad mata on the bench.

Mata should be playing off Rooney with the 2 wingers providing penetration and space for them.

Pro. F

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

I think you are misunderstanding my gripe.
You don't fall foul of it. Just forget about it.

Nah, I fully understand your gripe.

homerjay2005

summary since LVG has joined..

IamtheWalrus

Why pay so much for Di Maria to let him go after 1 season. Not fitting into LvG's system doesn't make sense considering he bought him. No chance he's going.

RVN10

TheDoc wrote: »

That's like saying "People still read boards????? sure they are all pubescent kids pretending to have an adult opinion on stuff". IE taking an entire platform and tarnishing it with an incorrect tag.

While there is many accounts and people on Twitter who try generate traffic by pretending to be football agents or "ITK's" , there is a large pool of credible sources and information on Twitter relating to football.

Every single transfer I've been following in the last 4-5 years has first surfaced via Twitter, and then confirmed via Twitter, before any of the established outlets.

If you want to wait on BBC, or Sky, or lads holding the shirt, that is absolutely totally fine.

But there is plenty of people who want to keep in touch with the latest news or get the inside track. For some its a way to tide over the work day, for others its a genuine interest.

While there is definitly some Twitter accounts that shouldn't feature in here as anyway credible, there is plenty who are.

Totally agree with most of the things you are saying , but its the ones where the likes "Adm has signed a 5yr contract with psg" with absolutely no concrete info.

I read it to get me through the day in work but it turns people in to a frenzy altogether here when some random Joe Bloggs says Messi is signing for us.(obviously I know this hasnt been mentioned.):D

TheDoc

RVN10 wrote: »

Totally agree with most of the things you are saying , but its the ones where the likes "Adm has signed a 5yr contract with psg" with absolutely no concrete info.

I read it to get me through the day in work but it turns people in to a frenzy altogether here when some random Joe Bloggs says Messi is signing for us.(obviously I know this hasnt been mentioned.):D

Well there was leading tweeks last week that PSG sounded out United who were very favourible to the deal should a significant fee for Di Maria be met, with PSG indicating they want to sound out the player.

Figured it would be the story of this week. And might well appear to be so.