Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015 - Mod Post in OP 23/07

bangkok

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

I thanked it. But I feel shame for supporting your hypothesis.

was only a joke and a funny one at that :P

bangkok

Coat22 wrote: »

Yes but will we? I can't see a 4-3-3 with Rooney as the focal point scoring enough goals. To be quite honest I haven't a rashers (as indeed nobody on here has) how LVG sees United playing with the players now at his disposal but very much doubt he sees Rooney as his goal getting forward

ah here, leave it out

v3ttel

Coat22 wrote: »

Will never get you more than 15+ a season but will make it happen for the team.

Never?

13/14 - 17 goals.
11/12 - 27 goals.
09/10 - 26 goals.

That's 3 of the last 6 seasons he has scored 15+ and that's just counting a "Season" as just the Premier League games. Even with that definition, you are wrong.

In reality, he has scored 15+ in 5 of the last 6 years, including CL, FA Cup, League Cup. The only exception was last season - where he played a lot in midfield and we didn't have any CL or League Cup run.

Sorry, but you are talking rubbish.

Cantona's Collars

Memphis never forgot Leg Day at the gym.

The_Kew_Tour

What did Brown Thomas do to you?!!!

magnumbud

Coat22 wrote: »

Yes but will we? I can't see a 4-3-3 with Rooney as the focal point scoring enough goals. To be quite honest I haven't a rashers (as indeed nobody on here has) how LVG sees United playing with the players now at his disposal but very much doubt he sees Rooney as his goal getting forward

its been his favoured formation most of his career when he has had the choice. rooney has the abilty to do it as he has done it in the past but if he can still do that i dont know. i would hope depay, di maria and mata chip in with goals and whoever is backup to rooney.

The Moldy Gowl

Coat22 wrote: »

Yes but will we? I can't see a 4-3-3 with Rooney as the focal point scoring enough goals. To be quite honest I haven't a rashers (as indeed nobody on here has) how LVG sees United playing with the players now at his disposal but very much doubt he sees Rooney as his goal getting forward

Rooney is the perfect player to play up top in a 433, he is a complete forward, which is why he gets played all along the front and still gets into double figures, not because he is awful as scoring, because tactically he shouldn't be in those positions to score because someone else is

gillamandango

"Christian Benteke moved into odds-on by Sky Bet to sign for Manchester United this summer.

The Aston Villa striker had been heavily linked with Liverpool but he's now just 10/11 (from 2/1) to head to Old Trafford. betway are also odds-on by Ladbrokes will still give you 6/4. Liverpool are out to 6/4 to land the Belgian's signature.

Sky Bet also report money for David De Gea to stay at Old Trafford - he's into 5/6 (from 6/4) to do so. A move to Real Madrid is also a 5/6 chance now."

The Moldy Gowl

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

What did Brown Thomas do to you?!!!

Is that a U.L reference?

jayo26

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I'm told what Paddy Crerand says in private about United players and performances is not the same as what he says on MUTV - so I would assume all the presenters are pulling a public line as dictated by their pay-masters.

Sure Roy Keane got bombed out of the club partly for having a go at the players on MUTV.

Wouldn't doubt it for a minute Mitch, have you seen the difference in macari on sky compaired to macari on mutv.

Crerrand is the worst tho he makes it so blatantly obvious I donno what he says in private I never been near the man but he cant be critical of the club in any shape or form. And if anyone steps up they get the response "sure everyone has an opinion"

David may was on mutv yesterday evening and in space of a hour he said Rafael and Hernandez and few others weren't good enough and would be sold on.
He said he would swap di Maria for Muller or Lewandowski and said he wouldn't touch David Luis with a barge pole and that he thought Ramos was using united for a new contract.

That's the kind of honest thing you want to hear.

The_Kew_Tour

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Is that a U.L reference?

100% even though never went

Cantona's Collars

gillamandango wrote: »

Sky Bet also report money for David De Gea to stay at Old Trafford - he's into 5/6 (from 6/4) to do so. A move to Real Madrid is also a 5/6 chance now."

This might have something to do with the De Gea odds,

Coat22

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

What did Brown Thomas do to you?!!!

I'll jump back in there if Rooney gets 20+ this season (he'll get 21 now for me saying that)

Honestly can't see a 30 year old Rooney as the focus of our attack but hell what do I know.

It was Van Gaal who didn't include him in his list of "strikers". I don't see him in that mode either.

jayo26

Coat22 wrote: »

I'll jump back in there if Rooney gets 20+ this season (he'll get 21 now for me saying that)

Honestly can't see a 30 year old Rooney as the focus of our attack but hell what do I know.

It was Van Gaal who didn't include him in his list of "strikers". I don't see him in that mode either.

Mate you didn't see our soon to be record goal scorer getting us over 15 goals a season, he got 14 last year from mostly midfield.
If lvg plays Rooney up front on his own this year and tells him not to come back past the halfway line he will easily score over 20 goals. He might be aging but he still has football vision that's streets ahead of anyone else and he is still pretty explosive.

brinty

Lads this season we need to have multiple guys getting 20+ goals not just one and midfielders getting 10+ at least
Look at Barca - Neymar, Suarez and messi 25+ each
Look at Real - Ronaldo, Bale, Benzema 20+ each

Midfield also need banging in 30+ goals too between them

These figures maybe slightly inaccurate, but neither club play a traditional CF (Benzema and Suarez are notional 9's).. and I don't think we will either so i'd expect rooney, depay, di maria, mata, (new striker) etc rotating into the 9 position

The days of the bean pole holder upper #9 are gone (for now) so unless players are banging in lots of goals we're in trouble next season

Coat22

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Rooney is the perfect player to play up top in a 433, he is a complete forward, which is why he gets played all along the front and still gets into double figures, not because he is awful as scoring, because tactically he shouldn't be in those positions to score because someone else is

So why is someone else in those positions? Why bother last season with an RVP or Falcao if you have Rooney to bag all the goals?

I actually think we're agreed - he is a complete forward but not a goal poacher.

Cantona's Collars

Coat22 wrote: »

I'll jump back in there if Rooney gets 20+ this season (he'll get 21 now for me saying that)

Honestly can't see a 30 year old Rooney as the focus of our attack but hell what do I know.

It was Van Gaal who didn't include him in his list of "strikers". I don't see him in that mode either.

Read somewhere that Rooney only scored 2 out of 14 games when he played as CF last season,he'd a better record from playing deeper.

jayo26

brinty wrote: »

Lads this season we need to have multiple guys getting 20+ goals not just one and midfielders getting 10+ at least
Look at Barca - Neymar, Suarez and messi 25+ each
Look at Real - Ronaldo, Bale, Benzema 20+ each

Midfield also need banging in 30+ goals too between them

These figures maybe slightly inaccurate, but neither club play a traditional CF (Benzema and Suarez are notional 9's).. and I don't think we will either so i'd expect rooney, depay, di maria, mata, (new striker) etc rotating into the 9 position

The days of the bean pole holder upper #9 are gone (for now) so unless players are banging in lots of goals we're in trouble next season

Your right but them two teams are freaks of nature, how many of juventus team last year got over 20 goals and they had a pretty good year. Teves had 27 next up was morata with 14.

If we can get Rooney over 20 goals and depay scoring and Mata chipping in with plus ten and Herrera with a few schweinsteger with a few there is goals all over our team. Even Darmian got 5 last season.

brinty

jayo26 wrote: »

Your right but them two teams are freaks of nature, how many of juventus team last year got over 20 goals and they had a pretty good year. Teves had 27 next up was morata with 14.

If we can get Rooney over 20 goals and depay scoring and Mata chipping in with plus ten and Herrera with a few schweinsteger with a few there is goals all over our team. Even Darmian got 5 last season.

Fair points Jayo, the figures are inflated in Spain by poor opposition and routine 4,5 & 6 nil beatings of non top 4 clubs.

But i'd love to see a few players hit 20+ and a few get 15 and then a few in the 5-10 range.

I hope that's what we'll see, even young is generally good for 5-8 a season??

The Moldy Gowl

Coat22 wrote: »

So why is someone else in those positions? Why bother last season with an RVP or Falcao if you have Rooney to bag all the goals?

I actually think we're agreed - he is a complete forward but not a goal poacher.

Tactics? Being able to have different angles of attack. Interchanging.

Well, ya he isn't a goal poacher, but are goal poacher not limited? Would much prefer a Rooney to a chico.

bangkok

its gas, the minute a player hits 30 it seems he is over the hill

jayo26

brinty wrote: »

Fair points Jayo, the figures are inflated in Spain by poor opposition and routine 4,5 & 6 nil beatings of non top 4 clubs.

But i'd love to see a few players hit 20+ and a few get 15 and then a few in the 5-10 range.

I hope that's what we'll see, even young is generally good for 5-8 a season??

I wouldn't be counting on young but who knows,
Id say plus 25 from Rooney,
Depay plus 15,
Mata plus 10,
Hernandez plus 10
Maybe Herrera be good for 10 and then a few of the squad chipping in with five or so.

The Moldy Gowl

bangkok wrote: »

its gas, the minute a player hits 30 it seems he is over the hill

When I was 17/18 playing FIFA or football manager I would think players over 21 were old and would never buy them.
Here I am at 25 defending jones for being 23.
When I'm 30 I'll be thinking 35 years can still do it.

hufpc8w3adnk65

zerks wrote: »

This might have something to do with the De Gea odds,

What's that? I don't speak or read Spanish too well

Coat22

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Tactics? Being able to have different angles of attack. Interchanging.

Well, ya he isn't a goal poacher, but are goal poacher not limited? Would much prefer a Rooney to a chico.

Thank you - so after 3 pages of attack we are agreed he is not a goal poacher.

Don't think I ever said I'd play Chico ahead of him, I would see him deeper lying with a striker (better than Chico hopefully) ahead of him.

Mitch Connor

brinty wrote: »

Lads this season we need to have multiple guys getting 20+ goals not just one and midfielders getting 10+ at least
Look at Barca - Neymar, Suarez and messi 25+ each
Look at Real - Ronaldo, Bale, Benzema 20+ each

Midfield also need banging in 30+ goals too between them

These figures maybe slightly inaccurate, but neither club play a traditional CF (Benzema and Suarez are notional 9's).. and I don't think we will either so i'd expect rooney, depay, di maria, mata, (new striker) etc rotating into the 9 position

The days of the bean pole holder upper #9 are gone (for now) so unless players are banging in lots of goals we're in trouble next season

I would expect Rooney to get 20+ if the focal point.

I would expect 10+ from Depay, Di Maria and Mata (should ADM stay) and I would expect near 10 from Herrera. Should be looking at 5+ from Schweinsteiger and Schneiderlin too, imo.

If we were better at set pieces I would expect something from the CBs too.

But yeah, we need more goals from all over.

Mitch Connor

MrMac84 wrote: »

What's that? I don't speak or read Spanish too well

Real are buying Casila from Espanyol.

Read a while back they want him as backup to DDG (With Navas going) but would be comfortable with him as No.1 for the season (or battling with Navas) if they dont get DDG this summer.

jayo26

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I would expect Rooney to get 20+ if the focal point.

I would expect 10+ from Depay, Di Maria and Mata (should ADM stay) and I would expect near 10 from Herrera. Should be looking at 5+ from Schweinsteiger and Schneiderlin too, imo.

If we were better at set pieces I would expect something from the CBs too.

But yeah, we need more goals from all over.

Schweinsteiger is top notch at set piece delivery and Darmian is over 6 foot so that should help, depay is better at direct free kicks more so then set piece delivery but I could be proven wrong on that.

TheDoc

brinty wrote: »

Lads this season we need to have multiple guys getting 20+ goals not just one and midfielders getting 10+ at least
Look at Barca - Neymar, Suarez and messi 25+ each
Look at Real - Ronaldo, Bale, Benzema 20+ each

Midfield also need banging in 30+ goals too between them

These figures maybe slightly inaccurate, but neither club play a traditional CF (Benzema and Suarez are notional 9's).. and I don't think we will either so i'd expect rooney, depay, di maria, mata, (new striker) etc rotating into the 9 position

The days of the bean pole holder upper #9 are gone (for now) so unless players are banging in lots of goals we're in trouble next season

That fails to recognize how uncompetitive La Liga is, with many games both Real and Barca play a formality, with a spanking waiting to happen.

I wouldn't use those front three as any sort of indication or barometer in terms of method or standard.

If we had our front three scoring 25+ each, in the one season, we would be watching the greatest team in the PL era and would finish with a treble. Or the league had just done to total ****.

The Moldy Gowl

Coat22 wrote: »

Thank you - so after 3 pages of attack we are agreed he is not a goal poacher.

Don't think I ever said I'd play Chico ahead of him, I would see him deeper lying with a striker (better than Chico hopefully) ahead of him.

But he can still 'poach' goals if he was the main striker. Do you mean tap ins?
Or a striker who stays in the box?
Rooney would always have been instructed to stay outside the box.

He has played behind the top striker for the last 10 years because while he is good up front, if you can get Rooney and another forward up front and sarcrifice some of Rooney by getting him to play deeper, you do.

Billy86

brinty wrote: »

Fair points Jayo, the figures are inflated in Spain by poor opposition and routine 4,5 & 6 nil beatings of non top 4 clubs.

But i'd love to see a few players hit 20+ and a few get 15 and then a few in the 5-10 range.

I hope that's what we'll see, even young is generally good for 5-8 a season??

Possibly my favourite Man Utd season ever (and I doubt I am alone in this) was 2006/07. That year we had Rooney and Ronaldo each on 20 goals, Saha on 13 and Scholes on 11, though the spread of overall goals was fantastic and there was a whole bunch of guys on 5-7 goals - Gary Neville was our only outfield player* to not find the net that season.

I don't know if we can realistically expect multiple guys to hit 20, multiple to hit 15, multiple to hit 10, and more again to hit 5+. But definitely agreed that a good spread like we had in 2006/07 is far more preferential than one guy getting 30, 40+ and only 1-2 guys barely scraping into double figures, or even to a successful trio Like Ronaldo (42), Tevez (19) and Rooney (18).

At a rough guess I would like to see the following though:
Rooney/new striker (or Cheech) - 20+ comfortably from the #1 striker so long as they keep healthy, around 15 or more from whoever is 2nd in line.
Depay/Mata/Di Maria - 10+ from two, the third providing more assists or a direct threat to free others up.
Herrera - pushing for double digits, ideally over that if he locks down a starting spot at the tip of our 4-3-3.
Schneiderlin/Schweini/Fellaini - 5+ each will do (depending on Fellaini's playing time).
Carrick, Blind and the defenders - maybe an average of 3-4 goals per person will do. Not too bothered here if 1-2 guys get a bunch of goals, or if it is an even spread. Goals from defenders are never exacttly a given but they play a huge role, and are often telling in breaking down lower teams that can do a good job parking the bus.
Young/Valencia - I have no idea because I have no clue if they'll be used on the wings, as FBs/WBs, or most likely a combination of both for each... maybe around 5 goals each I guess?

*3-4 young guys got 1-2 Carling Cup games and didn't score (Eagles, David/Ritchie Jones, for example) and Wes Brown's only goal was in essentially a charity friendly against a World XI team... but still.

Your Airbag

zerks wrote: »

Memphis never forgot Leg Day at the gym.

I see your Memphis Depay and Raise you one Bastian Schwiensteiger.

JamboMac

Is this true?

Manchester United will make Real Madrid a final offer worth €60 million (approx. £41.9 million) for centre-back Sergio Ramos. If accepted, the Spanish World Cup winner will become the most expensive defender ever.

Coat22

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

But he can still 'poach' goals if he was the main striker. Do you mean tap ins?
Or a striker who stays in the box?
Rooney would always have been instructed to stay outside the box.

He has played behind the top striker for the last 10 years because while he is good up front, if you can get Rooney and another forward up front and sarcrifice some of Rooney by getting him to play deeper, you do.

A "striker" as I know it is a forward who remains in the box and scores (typically) from short range efforts. This is not Rooneys best position and as you say he's not played like that for 10+ years.

His best position is outside the box which is why I think you still need a "striker" to play a more forward role. Utd lacked this last season, partly due to Falcao's lack of pace and RVPs injuries. This is why, even if Rooney plays 50 games for United this season they still need a quicker, 6 yard box player in the RVP/RVN mode to grab the goals that make a difference.

magnumbud

JamboMac wrote: »

Is this true?

Manchester United will make Real Madrid a final offer worth €60 million (approx. £41.9 million) for centre-back Sergio Ramos. If accepted, the Spanish World Cup winner will become the most expensive defender ever.

say thats wrong luiz was 50million pounds but depends on the source some say pounds other say euros. if euros then he would be cheaper than ramos at that price

The Moldy Gowl

Coat22 wrote: »

A "striker" as I know it is a forward who remains in the box and scores (typically) from short range efforts. This is not Rooneys best position and as you say he's not played like that for 10+ years.

His best position is outside the box which is why I think you still need a "striker" to play a more forward role. Utd lacked this last season, partly due to Falcao's lack of pace and RVPs injuries. This is why, even if Rooney plays 50 games for United this season they still need a quicker, 6 yard box player in the RVP/RVN mode to grab the goals that make a difference.

We are just arguing over semantics.

Rooney is a central forward playing player. 5 feet either side of the box, he will still be good. That had been proved over his career.

bangkok

Your Airbag wrote: »

I see your Memphis Depay and Raise you one Bastian Schwiensteiger.

I see your schweinsteiger and I raise you one Ronaldo

Cantona's Collars

MrMac84 wrote: »

What's that? I don't speak or read Spanish too well

Madrid closing on the €6m singing of GK Kiko Casilla from Espanyol.

JamboMac

Your Airbag wrote: »

I see your Memphis Depay and Raise you one Bastian Schwiensteiger.

Don't like the way ozil is looking at this kid.

Billy86

Also regarding CBs, yes I would love us to get an Otamendi or Hummels (and while I am not at all as big a fan of his as some on here, Ramos would be more than welcome if DDG were to leave)... but let's say the first two had pricetags put on their heads of €100mn this afternoon, and so did any viable CB we could get - just as a hypothetical - in that event I would not want us to sign a CB for the sake of signing a CB. We did that last summer with Rojo and are still not really all that sure of where he stands with us.

I just feel with Schneiderlin and Schweini in ahead, as well as Carrick being back fit, there should be a hell of a lot more protection for our CBs this season (as well as having Darmian in at RB, and hopefully Shaw further along at LB on top of Young impressing at that position). Also add in that with the competition in the midfield we suddenly now have and his age, we could see Carrick drop in at CB to add some composure and presence. Those guys have all been performing under considerably less than optimal circumstances for the last two seasons, which has to be said in defense of their poor performances.

Now I am not saying CB is not a priority or anything, or course it is. But for me it has gone from being probably just behind CM as our biggest priority, to now having still not signed one, being something that could put us over the top as opposed to an absolute necessity just to try and keep close to competitors. For me a striker is a clearly bigger need as we currently stand (keeping/replacing DDG being the #1 priority for the rest of the summer, mind), and I think we can almost afford to treat CB with an 'all or nothing' approach, in terms of the quality of player we are after.

Cantona's Collars

Bayern didn't hang around getting Schweinsteiger's replacement-they've signed Vidal.

Schwiiing

zerks wrote: »

Bayern didn't hang around getting Schweinsteiger's replacement-they've signed Vidal.

90 grand a week wages aswell. Hmmm.

bangkok

Schwiiing wrote: »

90 grand a week wages aswell. Hmmm.

90k a week? no chance, he is not taking a pay cut to join Bayern

RobertKK

Mendes tells De Gea that his move to Madrid is getting close to happening.

http://sportwitness.ning.com/forum/topics/mendes-tells-star-man-united-move-is-close-to-happening

Cantona's Collars

bangkok wrote: »

90k a week? no chance, he is not taking a pay cut to join Bayern

£87k a week actually.That's after tax.

UnitedIrishman

I know we try and stay on the good side of Jorge Mendes but is it just me or does it not seem as if he's shafting us over on transfers every single season?

RayCun

brinty wrote: »

Lads this season we need to have multiple guys getting 20+ goals not just one and midfielders getting 10+ at least
Look at Barca - Neymar, Suarez and messi 25+ each
Look at Real - Ronaldo, Bale, Benzema 20+ each

Look at Chelsea
Costa - 21 (20)
Hazard - 19 (14)
Then Remy 9 (7), Terry 8 (5), Oscar and Drogba 7 (6,4)

City
Aguero 32 (26)
Silva 12
Toure 12 (10)

Arsenal
Sanchez 25 (16)
Giroud 19 (14)
Ramsey 10 (6)

TheDoc

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

I know we try and stay on the good side of Jorge Mendes but is it just me or does it not seem as if he's shafting us over on transfers every single season?

Personally think he is way to powerful for a football agent, and have long felt while his involvement in certain things may have provided some benefits, pandering and empowering someone like him, was always going to bite us in the arse, and create a number of conflicts of interest.

Cantona's Collars

Liverpool Echo saying Liverpool have decided to activate Benteke's release clause.

Pro. F

bangkok wrote: »

I see your schweinsteiger and I raise you one Ronaldo

Am I doing it right?