What Makes You Wanna Give Up?

Max Headroom

antiskeptic wrote: »

Let's look at (some of) the facts:

1. Unlike a car, there aren't really any safe bike crashes (although there are some which are certainly very much more likely to result in death or serious injury than others). The most innocuous 5mph spill can see you knocked over and have your head run over by a passing vehicle. A 30mph spill can see you with a crushed pelvis and permanent nerve damage whereas a car driver can reasonably expect to make it into work that same morning.

2. Bikes are inherently unstable and hard to see. They lend themselves to accidents that cars don't. A bit of gravel here, a tighter than expected bend there, greasy roads, a granite wall rounding the outside of the bend ... the list is literally endless when you run a comparison.

I've driven the same commute route across town that I rode for years on a bike and it's utterly mundane and without threat. Pedestrian even. On a bike I'd a mental map of every single risk-location and had a strategy (a strategy for God's sake) for dealing with all the usual suspects. The rest was down to luck. I lost count of the number of bits of broken bikes lying on the ground as I passed over, over the years - the results of those who through ignorance or something else rode with a lesser strategy or simply got unlucky.

3. The nature of a bike tends towards riders engaging in more risky behaviour than the average car driver. Cars are frequently forced into herd-like behaviour (e.g. the traffic doesn't allow you to speed, you don't speed), bikes give freedom to do what you like more or less whenever you like. And the bikers I've seen riding around avail, in the main, of that freedom.

You either suppress those truths and ride as if they don't exist (or exist to lesser degree). I remain to be convinced as to how you ride carefree when holding them full square before your face.

Or you are ignorant of them.

Or you set a different price than I do on personal well being and longevity. That's always possible





Some decisions require a more rigorous assessment of the pros and cons than others. You don't have to bring your life to a halt deciding on every little fiddle faddle

Surely, embarking on what can only be described as a risky pastime requires assessment.

It seems like you're thinking about this wayyy too much.....maybe you're better off not on a bike...i'm suprised you ever cross the road....:P

antiskeptic

Max Headroom wrote: »

It seems like you're thinking about this wayyy too much.....maybe you're better off not on a bike...

Did I not mention my having retired from biking? I figured I am better of off a bike. After doing some figuring.

bladespin

I would suggest not doing the stats thing on entering the kitchen, doubt you'd like it.

blade1

Nothing will put me off.
If I have to crawl along the ground and drag myself onto the bike I will.
Personally i feel if you have to think about it that much it's probably not for you in the first place.
I get on my bike and look forward to the spin.
If I didn't think that way I probably wouldn't bother.

Max Headroom

antiskeptic wrote: »

Did I not mention my having retired from biking? I figured I am better of off a bike. After doing some figuring.

Yeah i did see that..but its a shame, if you enjoyed it you should keep at it...but you're figuring out has led you to your retirement from biking so thats cool...;)

antiskeptic

blade1 wrote: »

Nothing will put me off.

So you say now.

If I have to crawl along the ground and drag myself onto the bike I will.

There was a time I felt like that too.

Personally i feel if you have to think about it that much it's probably not for you in the first place.

I can't say I'd recommend not examining the pursuits you plan on engaging in. Especially so if the pursuit involves significant risk. There are few, if any, major decisions in life that benefit from going in blindfolded. And what benefit you do get from going in blindfolded in those instances are down to luck. It's everyone's perogative to live a life based on lucky outcome.

I get on my bike and look forward to the spin.
If I didn't think that way I probably wouldn't bother.

That makes sense.

I'm not trying to convince anyone to cease motorcycling. I'm speaking into the situation where someone plans to enter ignorant of the objective realities.

As I say, it's a cost/benefit analysis (once you figure it sensible to do an analysis and not enter blindfolded). By all means assess the risk based on an informed view, then decide that the risks are worth the return

Max Headroom

I'm not trying to convince anyone to cease motorcycling. I'm speaking into the situation where someone plans to enter ignorant of the objective realities

WOW....thats so condesending......i'm finding it hard to understand why you had a bike in the first place now...

blade1

antiskeptic wrote: »

So you say now.




There was a time I felt like that too.



I can't say I'd recommend not examining the pursuits you plan on engaging in. Especially so if the pursuit involves significant risk. There are few, if any, major decisions in life that benefit from going in blindfolded. And what benefit you do get from going in blindfolded in those instances are down to luck. It's everyone's perogative to live a life based on lucky outcome.



That makes sense.

I'm not trying to convince anyone to cease motorcycling. I'm speaking into the situation where someone plans to enter ignorant of the objective realities.

As I say, it's a cost/benefit analysis (once you figure it sensible to do an analysis and not enter blindfolded). By all means assess the risk based on an informed view, then decide that the risks are worth the return

From the age of 10 up to now(43) I have have been bust up and seen others bust up and even killed.
When I say never I mean it!
You don't know me,you can't tell me I'll say something different down the line.
I have had to drag myself onto the bike in the past and have no problem doing it in the future,as long as I am physically able.

Blindfolded?????
You think I don't know the possible consequences if something goes wrong.
I'm confident in my riding.
When someone is afraid of something happening it can cause them to panic and that's when a situation that you could have gotten out if you kept a cool head turns into a disaster.

antiskeptic

Max Headroom wrote: »

I'm not trying to convince anyone to cease motorcycling. I'm speaking into the situation where someone plans to enter ignorant of the objective realities

WOW....thats so condesending

What's condescending about a fact? A learner has no real idea of what they are getting into. I mean, what, but experience informs you as to bikings myriad risks?

How many folk desiring to get into biking ask about the bike, the gear, the licencing. I don't think I've seen one who'd like to advance his odds by investing in some serious training. An example of the fact above




......i'm finding it hard to understand why you had a bike in the first place now...[/QUOTE]

antiskeptic

blade1 wrote: »

When I say never I mean it!

For now. Circumstances change. They did for me and can for you. I don't have to...

know me

.. to know that

you can't tell me I'll say something different down the line.

You can't tell me you won't.

Blindfolded?????

You appeared to suggest that entering biking blindfolded was the only way to go. Since critically examining it first ("thinking about it too much) would result in you not taking it up.

You think I don't know the possible consequences if something goes wrong. I'm confident in my riding.

That's fine. I was speaking into the situation of someone who hasn't gotten your experience and has, thus, no reason to be confident in their riding. And as such, might consider the objective realities regarding biking before embarking on a career in it. Some of those realities I've outlined here.

The experienced ride who continues riding isn't ignorant. He's informed of the risks but figures the benefits outweigh the potential costs. Not so the uninformed learner.

When someone is afraid of something happening it can cause them to panic and that's when a situation that you could have gotten out if you kept a cool head turns into a disaster.

True. Sometimes. The more likely the less the experience.

Max Headroom

antiskeptic wrote: »

What's condescending about a fact? A learner has no real idea of what they are getting into. I mean, what, but experience informs you as to bikings myriad risks?

How many folk desiring to get into biking ask about the bike, the gear, the licencing. I don't think I've seen one who'd like to advance his odds by investing in some serious training. An example of the fact above




......i'm finding it hard to understand why you had a bike in the first place now...

[/QUOTE]


Its not ISIS FFS...its riding a bike...it seems youre basing youre whole arguement on YOUR own experience....a learner will indeed look into facts and figures and pick up useful info from guys with bikes and forums like these (except this thread i hope) and find out for themselves without being preached to about the pitfalls and "are you mad" comments.....
mmm i'm starting to pity you now....no offence..;)

antiskeptic

Its not ISIS FFS...its riding a bike...it seems youre basing youre whole arguement on YOUR own experience

Which is extensive. I don't think I've said anything here that is particularly off the wall. I certainly not overstating it when I speak of the regular stream of bike debris (and parked up crashed bikes at the side of the road with front forks buried into the engine) I encountered on my daily commute. Watching the inexperienced riding around me told me where that debris was most likely coming from

a learner will indeed look into facts and figures and pick up useful info from guys with bikes and forums like these (except this thread i hope)

Why do you hope? There's nothing I've said that is in anyway outlandish. Would you prefer learners hear nothing being hung on the basic bones (which everyone is aware of) of biking involving risks?

and find out for themselves

Find out what for themselves? That the risk profile has more substance to it that "biking involves risk". This is the information age. Freedom of .. and all that.

without being preached to about the pitfalls and "are you mad" comments.....

Where did I say "are you mad". I see no issue with balancing what I see here as an overly positive viewpoint.

Wonda-Boy

gerrowadat wrote: »

Ah here. I'm away to sell me bike and buy a goldy coloured micra.

Might be a bit powerful for you mate, better check on here what the others think. Dont want you headbutting the steering wheel with the torque!!!

zubair

Mutha

Nothing.......ever.

Max Headroom

[QUOTE=antiskeptic;96981892



Where did I say "are you mad". I see no issue with balancing what I see here as an overly positive viewpoint.[/QUOTE]


Sorry pal, all i'm reading in your overly processed replies is a overly negative viewpoint because of YOUR bad experiences ....

I;ll leave replying to your posts at that ...as i said i REALLY dont know why you had a bike in the first place...maybe it was just a phase..

blade1

Max Headroom wrote: »

just a phase

My thoughts exactly.

BKtje

I really can't ever see myself giving it up. I enjoy it too much, even quicky popping to the shops is a joy most of the time. That said, I'd say a huge percentage of people have a bike or scooter here so awareness of them is extremely high meaning it is that little bit less dangerous than in Ireland ( going on what I've read here).

prunudo

BKtje wrote: »

......That said, I'd say a huge percentage of people have a bike or scooter here so awareness of them is extremely high meaning it is that little bit less dangerous than in Ireland ( going on what I've read here).

That's actually an interesting point, makes you think is the reason car drivers dislike all two wheeled transport a cultural thing. They've been so used to having the road to themselves for years that now with the increase in use as soon as they see cyclists or bikers they get an irrational dislike to us.

Pugzilla

Ireland is an anti-biker country. Majority of the population has a negative attitude towards motorcycles.

Even in the UK, there's a much greater presence and acceptance of motorbikes on the road.

Max Headroom

Pugzilla wrote: »

Ireland is an anti-biker country. Majority of the population has a negative attitude towards motorcycles.

Even in the UK, there's a much greater presence and acceptance of motorbikes on the road.

Back in the late 70's-early 80's we were often refused entry to pubs, clubs and generally picked on a lot more percentage wise than now....
Thankfully nowadays people are more aware of bikers , mainly because everybody knows someone with a bike, be it a relation,workmate,friend of a friend etc...which is a good thing imo...

listermint

antiskeptic wrote: »

Which is extensive. I don't think I've said anything here that is particularly off the wall. I certainly not overstating it when I speak of the regular stream of bike debris (and parked up crashed bikes at the side of the road with front forks buried into the engine) I encountered on my daily commute. Watching the inexperienced riding around me told me where that debris was most likely coming from



Why do you hope? There's nothing I've said that is in anyway outlandish. Would you prefer learners hear nothing being hung on the basic bones (which everyone is aware of) of biking involving risks?



Find out what for themselves? That the risk profile has more substance to it that "biking involves risk". This is the information age. Freedom of .. and all that.



Where did I say "are you mad". I see no issue with balancing what I see here as an overly positive viewpoint.

Just did the 100k Great Dublin Bike Ride (cycling this morning) it was touch and go because during the week i did a 79 point risk assessment of the cycle and it just wasnt coming out on the safe side. But they wouldnt give my the 40 quid back so i tossed the 79 point risk assessment in the bin and got on with my life

whupdedo

Max Headroom wrote: »

Back in the late 70's-early 80's we were often refused entry to pubs, clubs and generally picked on a lot more percentage wise ..

That's usually because when a bunch of bikers got together they acted the clowns around the place , drink driving , wheelies , fighting, drugs , you name it , and don't bother trying to say that's a generalised statement , publicans usually are fairly tolerant and bikers got that name for a reason

Attitudes have changed though and that's no harm either

blade1

whupdedo wrote: »

That's usually because when a bunch of bikers got together they acted the clowns around the place , drink driving , wheelies , fighting, drugs , you name it , and don't bother trying to say that's a generalised statement , publicans usually are fairly tolerant and bikers got that name for a reason

Attitudes have changed though and that's no harm either

Ahhh, the good ol days!!:pac::pac:

Max Headroom

whupdedo wrote: »

That's usually because when a bunch of bikers got together they acted the clowns around the place , drink driving , wheelies , fighting, drugs , you name it , and don't bother trying to say that's a generalised statement , publicans usually are fairly tolerant and bikers got that name for a reason

Attitudes have changed though and that's no harm either

EHHH...i dont drink or do drugs,cant wheelie and am coulrophobic.....
seems like youre the one generalising....
I know what you mean though, back then they were REAL bikers....;)

Paulw

antiskeptic wrote: »

How many folk desiring to get into biking ask about the bike, the gear, the licencing. I don't think I've seen one who'd like to advance his odds by investing in some serious training.

Maybe because anyone starting knows that they must complete IBT, which is designed to get you on a bike, give you some practical riding experience and also start your learning process about bikes, riding, dangers, etc.

IBT certainly opened my eyes, a lot more than anything I could read on boards or anywhere else. After that, it was a matter of riding and practice. I am a learner, and will always be a learner, even when I pass my test.

I am not blind to the dangers of biking. Far from it. But, everything in life has a risk, including walking out the front door, no matter what transport you use - bicycle, car, bike, walk, bus, etc. Accidents happen, and no matter what you do in life - it can happen to you. But, you can't live your life in fear or wondering what might go wrong.

Max Headroom

Paulw wrote: »

Maybe because anyone starting knows that they must complete IBT, which is designed to get you on a bike, give you some practical riding experience and also start your learning process about bikes, riding, dangers, etc.

IBT certainly opened my eyes, a lot more than anything I could read on boards or anywhere else. After that, it was a matter of riding and practice. I am a learner, and will always be a learner, even when I pass my test.

I am not blind to the dangers of biking. Far from it. But, everything in life has a risk, including walking out the front door, no matter what transport you use - bicycle, car, bike, walk, bus, etc. Accidents happen, and no matter what you do in life - it can happen to you. But, you can't live your life in fear or wondering what might go wrong.

Youre clearly an ignorant blindfolded learner who doesnt know the dangers of biking............




















Welcome to the real world of biking....:D

mamax

whupdedo wrote: »

That's usually because when a bunch of bikers got together they acted the clowns around the place , drink driving , wheelies , fighting, drugs

Some, Not ALL, none of my biker friends ever behaved as you described and I neither drink or take drugs so your comment is just plain silly.

Many years ago when away for weekends myself and my good wife were often followed around shops by the staff because we wore leathers and carried our helmets.
Those people were just plain ignorant, it's good to see that has changed somewhat.

Max Headroom

mamax wrote: »

Some, Not ALL, none of my biker friends ever behaved as you described and I neither drink or take drugs so your comment is just plain silly.

Many years ago when away for weekends myself and my good wife were often followed around shops by the staff because we wore leathers and carried our helmets.
Those people were just plain ignorant, it's good to see that has changed somewhat.

We all know the types..;);).....sadly back then we all got tarred with the same scruffy tatooed brush....:)

duskyjoe

All I know is riding a push bike around town is 100 times more dangerous than riding a motor bike......as I get older the more I enjoy biking and just getting out there no mater the weather.