Plans for vacant area near Clongriffin Station?

Dilisk

There is a large, fenced-off, vacant space adjacent to Clongriffin train
station. It's bounded by Bridge Street, Railway Road, and Station Way. Are
there any plans for this space?

I had a look in the Council's Local Area Plan for "Clongriffin – Belmayne
(North Fringe)", but it's difficult to use, so I gave up on that.

Gumbo

Dilisk wrote: »

There is a large, fenced-off, vacant space adjacent to Clongriffin train
station. It's bounded by Bridge Street, Railway Road, and Station Way. Are
there any plans for this space?

I had a look in the Council's Local Area Plan for "Clongriffin – Belmayne
(North Fringe)", but it's difficult to use, so I gave up on that.

Can you point out the location on google maps?

Dilisk

kceire wrote: »

Can you point out the location on google maps?

I can't post URLs because boards.ie considers me a "new user".

If you enter "Clongriffin train station" into Google Maps, then switch to
Satellite view, you will see the vacant area immediately to the southwest of
the train station.

Pete_Cavan

kceire wrote: »

Can you point out the location on google maps?

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.401463,-6.1446278,551m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en-GB

It will be developed over time, in the not too distant future given the market conditions at present. Expect to see work start again on the area where construction had already began on the right soon.

Gumbo

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.401463,-6.1446278,551m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en-GB

It will be developed over time, in the not too distant future given the market conditions at present. Expect to see work start again on the area where construction had already began on the right soon.

I'll check tomorrow what the current permission allows.

Dilisk

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Expect to see work start again on the area where construction had already began on the right soon.

You seem to be talking about a different area from me.

In the view you linked to, the roof of the train station is easy to pick
out: it's white in colour and approximately rectangular in shape.

Once you have identified that roof, it's easy to find the area I'm talking
about. It is southwest (i.e. below and to the left) of that roof, grey in
colour, and irregular in shape.

skD13

Hi. I used to live there for about 6 years so have a fair idea of what was once/may still be planned. See this old Clongriffin website back from when Gannon Homes launched the project over 10 years ago http://www.clongriffin.ie/index.html. See the little artist’s impression just on the right of the page, under the green “Commercial” link. That CGI is looking from the entrance of the shopping center, across the plaza. Just to the right of the existing steps up to the station you can see the red and glass high rise building. That’s what was/is to go in that space and what the original planning permission was for. It’s meant to be office space.

It is hard to know what will go there now so many years later. Clongriffin would be ideal for an out of town office park like a smaller Leopardstown/Park West/Citywest etc., but that opportunity was never investigated over the years. So it is difficult to know what will happen to that space. Regarding finishing the development up that end (by the station) and along the north side of Main St.; while it’s great to see houses being developed up and along Park Avenue again, in my opinion the higher density plans closer to the train station are some way off. The center needs to be opened up and that is unlikely to happen until the road across into Baldoyle is completed. It’s all in the original master plans which are on DCC planning site if you look for them. I wouldn’t be surprised if nothing was built there for another 10 years, which would be a pity, as with that lovely new railway station and the fine plaza, it would make a feasible small sized office park. Then again maybe that’s just my negativity after living there all through the recession years and looking out at a building site and not a brick laid! But it is at least great to see Park Avenue being completed as it will give an air of completion around the park. If things keep going the gap in the center will ultimately be finished too but that link into Baldoyle (The Coast development) is crucial.

Pete_Cavan

Dilisk wrote: »

You seem to be talking about a different area from me.

In the view you linked to, the roof of the train station is easy to pick
out: it's white in colour and approximately rectangular in shape.

Once you have identified that roof, it's easy to find the area I'm talking
about. It is southwest (i.e. below and to the left) of that roof, grey in
colour, and irregular in shape.

I know what you are talking about. I was making the point that we will see construction in that general area again soon, albeit completing a section where construction had previously commenced but then suspended. Once that section has been completed, then the next phases will follow on. It is only logical that the existing foundations would be built upon before breaking ground elsewhere.

Gumbo

Clongriffin is actually quite busy construction wise at the moment.

Gannon has just completed 28 house up at the far end. He has commenced a bigger site beside that with 100 houses and plans to build all of them!

Down at the large shopping centre, there are duplex apartments being finalized up on the roof at the moment, also the gym is set up open up in the coming weeks.

neris

has the mosque been knocked on the head or is that still going ahead?

skD13

neris wrote: »

has the mosque been knocked on the head or is that still going ahead?

Knocked on the head according to Tommy Broughan a while back.

http://www.tommybroughan.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/TOMMY_BROUGHAN_TD_ONLINE_VOL_23_No_1.pdf

Gumbo

Current permission is Reference 4502/07 for 98 Apartments IIRC.
There has been no ammendments to this as of yet, so effectively on hold.

Belfunk

kceire wrote: »

also the gym is set up open up in the coming weeks.

Where is the gym going into?

Gumbo

Belfunk wrote: »

Where is the gym going into?

Down in one of the blocks beside where the shopping centre was proposed.
I'll check exactly which block tomorrow but it currently fitted out already by the new owner/lease holder.

They were fitting air conditioning systems last week.

neris

kceire wrote: »

Current permission is Reference 4502/07 for 98 Apartments IIRC.
There has been no ammendments to this as of yet, so effectively on hold.

are both sides of the railway tracks going to be over "apartmented" in time. Surely they,ll start development in the coast again which is apartments/duplex's already. Would streets of 3 & 4 bed houses with gardens and driveways not be more appropriate in parts of these areas now?

Gumbo

neris wrote: »

are both sides of the railway tracks going to be over "apartmented" in time. Surely they,ll start development in the coast again which is apartments/duplex's already. Would streets of 3 & 4 bed houses with gardens and driveways not be more appropriate in parts of these areas now?

Depends. Think it's Fingal on the other side?

Most of Gannons current developments are now houses as revised from apartments previously. Houses would be better but it depends on the site too.

I don't think houses would suit that site but they do suit the large open sites up at the centra/spar and Fr. Collins Park end.

skD13

As is evidenced by the current construction, Gannon have restarted on the periphery and are working in towards the stain station. So houses are being built up around the park etc. But the closer you get to the station the higher the densities in the plans. The other side is Fingal County Council correct, but their plans align with the plans on the DCC side. I don't know who owns the land at the other side. I think it was once Shannon homes who sold on to others like Menolly and Ballymore (both still in business I believe). Some interesting historical info here: http://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/menolly-pays-95-million-for-50-stake-in-baldoyle-racecourse-1.1146168

Developers will maximise profit. At the moment there is scant demand for apartments in the suburbs, the demand is for houses, so the developers are building houses. They are probably hoping that the economy improves and that they can eventually continue with the original plans and build higher densities of apartments/office space closer the station.

I have a lot of time for Gannon Homes. I think they looked after the place well and despite some earlier teething problems, when I lived there many of the residents had a good relationship with them. But Clongriffin really needs an anchor, some core businesses, be they retail or some companies to come in and take space. Because the centre is in a cul-de sac (until the road over the station is constructed) something is needed to bring foot fall in.... like the original Superquinn that fell through (as an interesting aside, there still exists up on DCC website someplace detailed plans for the interior of that once to be supermarket, worth a look). For the years I lived there I had hoped something would happen, but alas we were in the middle of the biggest recession in the recent history of the State . But things are moving again in the right direction.

But yeah, back to the discussion on apartments around the station. I would say that is still the plan assuming favourable market conditions.

skD13

skD13 wrote: »

I think it was once Shannon homes who sold on to others like Menolly and Ballymore (both still in business I believe).

Correction, Ballymore owned the land bank and sold on to Shannon/Menolly according to that article. No idea who owns what now. One would assume it went into NAMA but maybe the original developers still have control? That's what happened with Gannon AFAIK, their assets went in to NAMA and NAMA worked with them on their biz plan to keep going.

Best think to do is keep an eye on planning permissions. DCC for west of the railway line, Fingal on the east.

neris

The racecourse site/coast went to a receiver after the crash and Fingal are now working with them to take the coast into fingal c.c control for the roads, lights etc. was no word in the flyers we got in baldoyle on who actually owns the site. Would have thought that supermarket in clongriffin might suit aldi or lidl as one of them was looking for a new store in baldoyle a few years ago

Gumbo

skD13 wrote: »

As is evidenced by the current construction, Gannon have restarted on the periphery and are working in towards the stain station. So houses are being built up around the park etc. But the closer you get to the station the higher the densities in the plans. The other side is Fingal County Council correct, but their plans align with the plans on the DCC side. I don't know who owns the land at the other side. I think it was once Shannon homes who sold on to others like Menolly and Ballymore (both still in business I believe). Some interesting historical info here: http://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/menolly-pays-95-million-for-50-stake-in-baldoyle-racecourse-1.1146168

Developers will maximise profit. At the moment there is scant demand for apartments in the suburbs, the demand is for houses, so the developers are building houses. They are probably hoping that the economy improves and that they can eventually continue with the original plans and build higher densities of apartments/office space closer the station.

I have a lot of time for Gannon Homes. I think they looked after the place well and despite some earlier teething problems, when I lived there many of the residents had a good relationship with them. But Clongriffin really needs an anchor, some core businesses, be they retail or some companies to come in and take space. Because the centre is in a cul-de sac (until the road over the station is constructed) something is needed to bring foot fall in.... like the original Superquinn that fell through (as an interesting aside, there still exists up on DCC website someplace detailed plans for the interior of that once to be supermarket, worth a look). For the years I lived there I had hoped something would happen, but alas we were in the middle of the biggest recession in the recent history of the State . But things are moving again in the right direction.

But yeah, back to the discussion on apartments around the station. I would say that is still the plan assuming favourable market conditions.

Yeah I've been in the derelict superquinn building. It's a massive space with tons of parking also. I've been in every Gannon site up there (perk of the job), and they are certainly looking after the place as you say. They are putting very good spec into the houses up the far end, Parkedge and Belltree and even the white goods/finishes are above normal.

skD13 wrote: »

Correction, Ballymore owned the land bank and sold on to Shannon/Menolly according to that article. No idea who owns what now. One would assume it went into NAMA but maybe the original developers still have control? That's what happened with Gannon AFAIK, their assets went in to NAMA and NAMA worked with them on their biz plan to keep going.

Best think to do is keep an eye on planning permissions. DCC for west of the railway line, Fingal on the east.

Ballymore are still in business, they have some land banks up at Ashton/Finglas/cabra junction, can't think of the area name that is has at the moment. (Royal Canal Park) They are currently in to build houses there now where once planning was granted for a boat berth and marina!

Dilisk

kceire wrote: »

Current permission is Reference 4502/07 for 98 Apartments IIRC.
There has been no ammendments to this as of yet, so effectively on hold.

4502/07 is indeed the Planning Application Reference. The
application is for 98 apartments, 3 shops, one
"restaurant/take away with retail", and space for "services"
(whatever they are).

Permission was granted on 2008-01-14 (if I rightly
understand DCC's website). Since planning permission only
lasts 5 years (as I understand it), the permission should
now be expired.

Gumbo

Dilisk wrote: »

4502/07 is indeed the Planning Application Reference. The
application is for 98 apartments, 3 shops, one
"restaurant/take away with retail", and space for "services"
(whatever they are).

Permission was granted on 2008-01-14 (if I rightly
understand DCC's website). Since planning permission only
lasts 5 years (as I understand it), the permission should
now be expired.

Not exactly. I can check during the week if there's an extension of time on it, but even if it's not, the whole clongriffin area is covered under the parent planning application which had a shelf life of 10 years iirc which was lodged in 2002 but after appeals, and compliance etc the clock only started ticking in 04ish.

Again, I'll check on Monday to be exact.

Gumbo

Dilisk wrote: »

4502/07 is indeed the Planning Application Reference. The
application is for 98 apartments, 3 shops, one
"restaurant/take away with retail", and space for "services"
(whatever they are).

Permission was granted on 2008-01-14 (if I rightly
understand DCC's website). Since planning permission only
lasts 5 years (as I understand it), the permission should
now be expired.

I was told today that this application is dead now. And the parent application from 2002 has also expired.

akesha

How are things at the moment? Any chance of seeing the plan over some day?

ice man75

There is a application in with DCC for a 17 storyou apartment block
Plan # 3634/16

skD13

ice man75 wrote: »

There is a application in with DCC for a 17 storyou apartment block
Plan # 3634/16

Mmmm. More residential. I can't figure out how Clongriffin hasn't managed to attract some industry into the area in the 10+ plus years since building started. For the last few years there has been a shortage of office space in the city. Clongriffin is very accessible and I often wonder how the developer hasn't managed to attract some anchor tenants, and build office space in the area. I feel it has never reached its potential because or this. Office space is springing up all over the city and suburbs but not in Clongriffin. Anyone have an angle on this?

vmb

Loads of third party observations complaining about the huge size of the development.

It´s funny most of them are from Baldoyle people complaining about gannon building flats instead of houses and destroying the market of flats. It´s like they only think about selling their properties now instead of improving the area for the future

With that massive volume of complains I guess it would be really difficult for the application to be approved.

I just bought a house in Clongriffin, close to the DART station, and in my opinion the more people living here the better. The majority of the people complain about that this is a sub urban area and this **skyscrapper** will break the character of the area.

The only complain with what I agree is that the traffic would be a problem. Main Street should link with baldoyle. I´ve seen that in the dart station, the road ends but it looks like as it is ready for a link with the baldoyle side.

As note, gannon is trying to rent the shopping centre. The add has been added just yesterday!

daft.ie/dublin/commercial-property-for-rent/offices-for-rent/clongriffin-town-centre-clongriffin-dublin-28055/

neris

problem aswell with baldoyle is that huge parts of the coast still havent been developed and planning has been resubmitted for that. the surrounding areas of baldoyle & donaghmede have always been low rise housing areas rather then apartments and the highest at the moment are probably 4 maybe 5 storey buildings so 17 storeys is way out of proportion. Another problem between clongriffen and the coast is the huge amount of empty retail spaces with more retail spaces going in to the planning applications.

expectationlost

vmb wrote: »

Loads of third party observations complaining about the huge size of the development.

It´s funny most of them are from Baldoyle people complaining about gannon building flats instead of houses and destroying the market of flats.

which ones

Gumbo

I'm praying this goes ahead.
Can't wait to see inside it.

Lovely Bloke

17 Stories private accomodation is a step in the right direction for Dublin.