Galway Chess Congress 2015 Cancelled

Pete Morriss

The organizers of the Galway Chess Congress, due to take place on 2nd to 4th October 2015, very much regret to announce that we have been forced to cancel this year’s Congress.

The reason for the cancellation is that we cannot guarantee that the ICU will rate the tournament, in view of their failure to rate the Galway Rapidplay held at the beginning of June. As some will remember, for that event the ICU Chairperson wrote to us less than a week before the tournament, making a series of unreasonable and inconsistent demands, with the threat (subsequently carried out ) that the tournament would not be rated if we did not immediately comply with them all. (The full correspondence can be seen on our webpage, at http://www.galwaychess.com/Correspondence/.) It remains a strong possibility that something similar will happen to the Galway Congress in three months’ time.

For the Congress we expect in excess of 150 entrants, most of whom will have to book two nights’ accommodation in Galway. We cannot ask people to make the commitment to play in the tournament if we cannot guarantee that the tournament will take place as advertized by us. Since that lies outside our control, we have decided to take the step to cancel now, so that everybody knows where they stand - including our hosts at the Menlo Park Hotel, who have shown us great consideration, but understandably will have to charge us for the hire of the venue if we were to cancel any later than this.

The Galway Congress has become established as one of the three or four best in Ireland, thanks to the hard work put in by a number of people in Galway over the last thirteen years, and the cooperation throughout that period of the ICU. We very much hope that we will be able to run the Galway Congress, as normal, in 2016. It is also possible that this season’s Congress might be rescheduled for early in 2016 if it is possible then to hold the tournament with some confidence.

sinbad68

@pete. Sadly I saw this coming, that's why I posted a warning here weeks ago, unfortunately you are partly responsible for this debacle, a bit of pragmatism & compromise, things would have worked out fine. In life at times you have to make a stand based on principles and fight a battle (win or lose) but battle of galway rapid need not have been fought.Even at this stage there is NO need to cancel galway congress , you could pass on the torch to someone else instead of taking the ball and going home, anyway good luck in british championship.

Ficheall

sinbad68 wrote: »

Even at this stage there is NO need to cancel galway congress , you could pass on the torch to someone else instead of taking the ball and going home

Who exactly do you think should pick up that torch?
Running a congress is no small task, even before you factor in ICU shenanigans..

Sparks

sinbad68 wrote: »

Even at this stage there is NO need to cancel galway congress , you could pass on the torch to someone else instead of taking the ball and going home

You would think that no person with the degree of competence, judgement and foresight that the job requires would take on such a job knowing that they could be dropped into the same situation themselves without warning.

brilliantboy

Well that's disappointing news. I was looking forward to playing in my first Galway Congress.
Hopefully the issue can be resolved when the current executive is voted out and the tournament can be rescheduled.

sinbad68

Sparks wrote: »

You would think that no person with the degree of competence, judgement and foresight that the job requires would take on such a job knowing that they could be dropped into the same situation themselves without warning.

What situation are you talking about ?!.Who created the situation in first place ?. Someone else in charge would have let the banned player in , galway rapid would have been played and rated and players would go home happy, same would apply to galway congress .The banned player recently played in Drogheda and irish championship and there were no problems .An organiser has a job to do,his job is to do what is best for the tournament & entrants and NOT to mess everyone up because of his personal feelings, If organiser can't do his job because of his principles , he should stand down and let someone else take over( at least in, contact and dealing with entrants section), could still act as an arbiter on the day .Sometimes we have to make sacrifices for the club , tournament .. etc .let me give you an example .

A troll named "Ali baba " earlier this year hit my club's website , a thin skinned , aggressive character ,the real reason he was posting was because he was angry at my praise for previous rating officer's work on developing the rating website and, started posting abusive comments ,I dropped strong hints at his true identity and he became venomous, the club website is poorly moderated, I asked one of moderators to either add me as moderator or take measures to stop trolls , he seemed reluctant to do either !, so for the sake of the club, I went back and posted that my previous hints at troll's identity were wrong, a delighted alibaba thinking I was confused about his identity left and I started my own blog.

Ficheall

sinbad68 wrote: »

An organiser has a job to do,his job is to do what is best for the tournament & entrants

Such as not allowing players believed to be disruptive or a threat to other players to enter? One could certainly argue that that was of benefit to the players and the tournament, no?

Sparks

sinbad68 wrote: »

What situation are you talking about ?!

Take a deep breath and a big backward step.
Now, put yourself in the shoes of a parent whose kid wants to go to the event. You don't play chess. You're just the parent of a kid who likes a board game and plays it in school. You look up the event and online you find that there's a kerfuffle because someone who publicly stated he assaulted a minor is being banned from the event because the organisers don't think it's a good idea to have him there.

Do you think, with your kid going to it, that that's a bad or a good idea?

(For fits and giggles, go read the Irish Sports Council's stuff on the code of ethics for children in sport and think about it again)

Now, smaller breath, step back into your own shoes and ask the same question.

Did you answer "good idea" the first time?

If not, try again until you do.

Then you will have a good grasp of the problem here. Now, I want you to imagine you're standing in front of that kid's parent and try to figure out how you're going to explain to them that you're allowing that person to attend, and what their reaction will be and how they will perceive you.

Now that you've got that in your mind's eye, ask yourself this: who the hell in this day and age is dumb enough to volunteer to step into that position while simultaneously having the mental capacity to organise a large event successfully?

brilliantboy

The ICU have now issued an open call to anyone interested in organizing an event in Galway on the same weekend as the cancelled Galway congress. Bizarre stuff

icu.ie wrote:

.....

It is a great pity that a long standing event on the Irish Chess Calendar has been cancelled in such circumstances by the "Galway Chess Club". However, perhaps there are other organisers who might consider running a similar event in Galway over the same weekend if they can acquire a good venue.

If there are any interested parties who wish to consider doing this, please let me know and we can arrange to publish the details on the Websites. I would also be happy to provide any support/advice/assistance that may be of benefit to a new organiser of a Galway Chess Congress.

Pat Fitzsimons
Chairperson
Irish Chess Union
7th July 2015

Zugszwang

Bizarre indeed. The ICU exec should try to focus on improving chess in Ireland, rather than settling scores. They're pathetic.

Ficheall

Does this mean the ICU intends to have someone run a "Galway Chess Congress" without any involvement of the Galway Chess Club??

Sparks

And quotes around the name of the Galway Chess Club.

sinbad68

Sparks wrote: »

Take a deep breath and a big backward step.
Now, put yourself in the shoes of a parent whose kid wants to go to the event. You don't play chess. You're just the parent of a kid who likes a board game and plays it in school. You look up the event and online you find that there's a kerfuffle because someone who publicly stated he assaulted a minor is being banned from the event because the organisers don't think it's a good idea to have him there.

Do you think, with your kid going to it, that that's a bad or a good idea?

(For fits and giggles, go read the Irish Sports Council's stuff on the code of ethics for children in sport and think about it again)

Now, smaller breath, step back into your own shoes and ask the same question.

Did you answer "good idea" the first time?

Take a deep breath and take step back and then a small breath and move forward into my shoes ?!!, is this your theory for enlightenment or part of a ritual in your cult ?!. Honestly if anyone not knowing about this case were to parachute in here ,after reading your statement, they would think the banned player was just released from prison for chasing kids in a school yard with a machete !.Get a grip and stop this false scaremongering ,If assaulting a minor would ban people from a chess venue , then most parents should be banned, because in some stage in their life they have spanked or hit their child and have officially assaulted a minor much younger than a 16 year old .

Ficheall wrote: »

Does this mean the ICU intends to have someone run a "Galway Chess Congress" without any involvement of the Galway Chess Club??

Last I checked, galway chess club don't own Galway city and if they are unwilling to run a tournament in their town, then why outsiders should not step in ?, best to contact the venue hotel, where tournament was due to take place before someone else books that weekend and if organisers in west coast are unwilling to take on the task then perhaps the organisers for enniscorthy chess congress could step in to save the day?

Sparks

sinbad68 wrote: »

part of a ritual in your cult ?!

Well, my time of not taking you seriously is coming to a middle.

Get a grip and stop this false scaremongering

The 40-year-old man we're talking about stood up at an ICU AGM in front of some thirty witnesses, two of who were taking audio recordings and one of whom was taking official written minutes, and he proceeded to relate in detail how he had committed an act of assault (as defined by the 1997 Non-fatal offences against the person act) against a minor and tried to infer that the minor had deserved it.

False scaremongering? I wouldn't trust this man alone in a room with my kid, why do you think any other parent - especially those who don't play competitive chess in Ireland - would feel differently?

why outsiders should not step in ?

Yes, that's why the ICU is suggesting that when a club gets awkward, random people should be encouraged to step forward to replace them. Because that's totally above board and utterly normal for an NGB and is of course best practice and highly recommended by the sports council.

:rolleyes:

Ficheall

sinbad68 wrote: »

Last I checked, galway chess club don't own Galway city and if they are unwilling to run a tournament in their town, then why outsiders should not step in ?, best to contact the venue hotel, where tournament was due to take place before someone else books that weekend and if organisers in west coast are unwilling to take on the task then perhaps the organisers for enniscorthy chess congress could step in to save the day?

There's an Enniscorthy Chess Congress? Google reveals nothing. Or are you suggesting that the Enniscorthy club run a Congress in October in Enniscorthy to fill the gap in the calendar? That's probably not a bad idea. I would wish them all the best with that venture. They certainly have a decent enough junior club.

LorcanOToole

icu.ie wrote:

It is a great pity that a long standing event on the Irish Chess Calendar has been cancelled in such circumstances by the "Galway Chess Club". However, perhaps there are other organisers who might consider running a similar event in Galway over the same weekend if they can acquire a good venue?

If there are any interested parties who wish to consider doing this, please let me know and we can arrange to publish the details on the Websites. I would also be happy to provide any support/advice/assistance that may be of benefit to a new organiser of a Galway Chess Congress.

Wow!! After 25 years involvement with the "Galway Chess Club" I'm being effectively told by the ICU that the entity never really existed; that it was only ever a vehicle for Petes ego. So I guess I must have dreamed all those nights down at the club. I might just be a figment of Petes imagination :-)

Or maybe I'm imagining that "Pat Fitzsimons" exists ;-) hmm.. that makes more sense...

sinbad68

Ficheall wrote: »

There's an Enniscorthy Chess Congress? Google reveals nothing. Or are you suggesting that the Enniscorthy club run a Congress in October in Enniscorthy to fill the gap in the calendar? That's probably not a bad idea. I would wish them all the best with that venture. They certainly have a decent enough junior club.

Google ??!! , ever heard of icu calendar ? here is the link http://www.icu.ie/events?month=07&page=2&year=2015

Enniscorthy congress replacing galway would actually be better , as adding additional tournaments during winter will add more pressure to the leinster league and also have negative effect on turnout in other winter tournaments .

Btw , while you are looking at the calendar , you will see icu forgot to insert Dunlaghaoire rapid next month & the irish veterans tournament the month after in their calendar!.

shoveltooth

When is the next ICU AGM? Childish stuff.

mikhail

shoveltooth wrote: »

When is the next ICU AGM? Childish stuff.

September. The exact date hasn't been announced.

eclipsechaser

Ficheall wrote: »

There's an Enniscorthy Chess Congress? Google reveals nothing. Or are you suggesting that the Enniscorthy club run a Congress in October in Enniscorthy to fill the gap in the calendar? That's probably not a bad idea. I would wish them all the best with that venture. They certainly have a decent enough junior club.

29th-31st of January is when Enniscorthy are running their tournament. I understand that the location is booked so I don't think they'll want to change it. Frankly I'm not sure it would be in good taste to put on a tournament in Galway's slot given what has happened to them. I certainly wouldn't be comfortable with it.

Lecale

Is it true a raft of other tournaments are going to cancel as well?

Sparks

Ballynafeigh are reporting that Malahide, Bunratty, Limerick Open, Ennis Open, Kilkenny, Cork and Galway have all written en masse to the ICU saying they will not adhere to the new ICU policy and that "the decision of who is allowed to participate in tournaments must rest with the tournament controllers and only the tournament controllers".

No news on the ICU.ie site though.

sinbad68

Sparks wrote: »

Ballynafeigh are reporting that Malahide, Bunratty, Limerick Open, Ennis Open, Kilkenny, Cork and Galway have all written en masse to the ICU saying they will not adhere to the new ICU policy and that "the decision of who is allowed to participate in tournaments must rest with the tournament controllers and only the tournament controllers".

No news on the ICU.ie site though.

sparks, do you really think if such a letter was written to icu challenging their authority in this manner they were going to publish it ?, get wise. You could tell relation between icu and organisers was really bad when icu couldn't get a loan of live boards from them for irish championship. Any way the article is from ballynafeigh gossip column and should be taken with a pinch of salt.There must be little happening in northern ireland as they spend nearly all the time talking about events in the south !. I don't understand why the proprietor of the site periodically deletes some of the comments and confuses everyone.

Sparks

sinbad68 wrote: »

get wise.

Sinbad, I know we don't have [sarcastic] tags in here, but it really wasn't that hard to spot on this occasion.

Any way the article is from ballynafeigh gossip column and should be taken with a pinch of salt.There must be little happening in northern ireland as they spend nearly all the time talking about events in the south !

No, they really don't, you're just looking at the last few weeks.
And it does affect them by the way, because the UCU recently decided to start talking to the ICU again (it's right up there on Ballynafeigh's site).
Not to mention that the authors and several other UCU players come down here for matches like Bunratty.

I don't understand why the proprietor of the site periodically deletes some of the comments and confuses everyone.

They put it right up there in black, red and white at the top of the page sinbad:

All comments will be deleted as we change topics, nothing personal just the way it is.

Their website software is set up for writing blogs, not discussion forums. This is how they cope with that.

sinbad68

Sparks wrote: »

Not to mention that the authors and several other UCU players come down here for matches like Bunratty.

Yep , seen them in bunratty , they spend more time at the bar than the chess board.

Sparks wrote: »

They put it right up there in black, red and white at the top of the page sinbad:

I know , It's just not a good idea.

Sparks wrote: »

heir website software is set up for writing blogs, not discussion forums. This is how they cope with that.

If they are using it as a discussion forum then they should use different software.

Anyway if the letter sent to icu is true, this is a bad situation.Best would be if a senior respectable icu member who is neither an icu executive nor an organiser , contacts couple of people like him and they intervene as arbiters in this dispute.This is not good for anyone.

Sparks

sinbad68 wrote: »

Yep , seen them in bunratty , they spend more time at the bar than the chess board.

Which, if we're going to be quoting apocryphal stories now, means they still spend more time playing chess than some attendees :P

I know , It's just not a good idea.

You do understand what the alternative is, right? I mean, you're not just evaluating a computer system with no understanding of how it works or what the drawbacks of various alternatives is, are you?

If they are using it as a discussion forum then they should use different software.

Ah, I see.

Anyway if the letter sent to icu is true, this is a bad situation.Best would be if a senior respectable icu member who is neither an icu executive nor an organiser , contacts couple of people like him and they intervene as arbiters in this dispute.This is not good for anyone.

You mean that instead of two groups yelling, we should have two groups yelling while a third yells something like "Leave it go nige, he ain't worth it!"?

I kindof think you're ascribing slightly more permanence to the current ICU committee than is really deserved. They are, after all, appointed by vote annually, their term of office is not "for life".

sinbad68

Sparks wrote: »

You mean that instead of two groups yelling, we should have two groups yelling while a third yells something like "Leave it go nige, he ain't worth it!"?

I think both sides may welcome mediators in this dispute , well known senior figures required to act as mediators.

Sparks wrote: »

I kindof think you're ascribing slightly more permanence to the current ICU committee than is really deserved. They are, after all, appointed by vote annually, their term of office is not "for life".

The icu committee got voted in by overwhelming numbers last time ,It will take a big swing to depose them, do you think executive opponents will nominate others and then show up in the agm in large numbers to do that ?.

BTW, when you mentioned ballynafeigh , I thought you are going to comment about the startling rumour posted over there about the final round of senior irish championship.

Sparks

sinbad68 wrote: »

I think both sides may welcome mediators in this dispute , well known senior figures required to act as mediators.

Can you name many who (a) would agree to mediate, and (b) would be accepted by both sides as mediators?

And more importantly, how do you propose to enforce their mediation if one side or the other decides not to accept it?

do you think executive opponents will nominate others and then show up in the agm in large numbers to do that ?

I think that entirely depends on how badly this affects the average ICU member and how seriously the clubs take it, but the past history of assaults on people at the AGMs and the average 9-hour running time of AGMs are pretty serious biases against participation; and bluntly, those biases make saying that the committee enjoys widespread support a somewhat dubious statement. This is why most NGBs use postal and/or proxy voting for their AGMs.

rob51

Quote: The icu committee got voted in by overwhelming numbers last time ,It will take a big swing to depose them, do you think executive opponents will nominate others and then show up in the agm in large numbers to do that ?.

That was when they promised to work for the better of Irish chess. A whole series of badly thought actions and edicts issued since then leaves them with very little credibility in my view. They seem to have totally missed the point that they are elected to run the ICU on behalf of the members. Certainly their promises on openness and transparency have become a joke.

Lecale

rob51 wrote: »

They seem to have totally missed the point that they are elected to run the ICU on behalf of the members.

More than that, they've started barring members in secret, but object in public to tournament directors barring entry.

reunion

With Galway not being run, the ICU should be begging them to run the event and/or assisting as much as possible to get the event run.

Even a notice saying that they agree the rapidplay was poorly handled, however they will work with Galway to ensure a fair solution for all ICU members.

What at the moment the icu is saying, Galway is gone. YAY happy days. Someone else want to run something then?

rob51

sinbad68 wrote: »

I think both sides may welcome mediators in this dispute , well known senior figures required to act as mediators.

Surely the point is that the ICU Executive should be the responsible senior figures working to resolve any disputes. Instead this Executive have caused most of the disputes.

Sparks

Gonzaga seem to have joined the protesting side now.

sinbad68

rob51 wrote: »

Surely the point is that the ICU Executive should be the responsible senior figures working to resolve any disputes. Instead this Executive have caused most of the disputes.

Executive tried to be different to it's predecessors which it saw as weak and indecisive and this was the result

Sparks wrote: »

Gonzaga seem to have joined the protesting side now.

The guy in ballynafeigh blog who is posting these articles under " news & gossip " is not directly involved in the dispute and getting his info from a third party, so I be a bit careful, even though he is likely right. I haven't been reading that blog for a long time til galway rapid dispute began.

you only wrote one line but took much more space than comment above it which was much longer.

brianhere

The ICU PRO has just joined the debate on the above mentioned Ballynafeigh blog here: https://ballynafeighchess.wordpress.com/commentsideasgripes/ .

He appears to be of the view that people who criticize the ICU, or at least facilitate such criticism, should be sanctioned somehow. Maybe including going slow on the question of uniting the Ulster and Irish Chess Unions.

Anyway he also is strongly hinting that Kilkenny will go the same way as Galway, that it's results will also not be registered on ICU ratings and he thinks it might not go ahead as a result.

Gosh that would be quite an escalation, Kilkenny is obviously a much bigger tournament than Galway.

brianhere

This is where he says that anybody criticising the ICU may find themselves sanctioned, presumably banned from being an ICU member:

"It appears that unless the UCU clean up their act they will never be taken back and allowed affiliate, but individual players will always be welcome as ICU members, though some who have violated various ICU codes of conduct, pertaining to damage to the image and reputation of Irish chess and the ICU, will either be refused entry or be subject to immediate disciplinary proceedings in which they will have the chance to explain and defend their activities to avoid being suspended as an ICU member."

Sparks

Colm Daly

maol

I spoke with one of the main Irish weekend organisers a few days ago and indeed what's being reported elsewhere about tournament organisers being up in arms is true. I just hope that there are some sensible people who are wiling to run for office at the next ICU AGM. I usually ignore chess politics, but I was hoping to play a weekend tournament or two this coming season!

Tychoo

What a farce this has turned into.

Just to recap, Galway Chess Club refuses entry to a person to an event it was running on the grounds that this person has been a disruptive in past events.

This person then appeals to the I.C.U. to intercede on his behalf.

The I.C.U has no option but to take up his case as this person is under no current sanction and inters into a series of correspondence with GCC with out any resolution.

The I.C.U. finally takes the action of not rating the results from the rapid play event.

The GCC responds by cancelling the Galway congress to which several other organizers of events have appeared to back GCC and also threatened to cancel coming events, so it’s looking like we’ll have no chess to play.

So what of our “disruptive player” My understanding is that the I.C.U. has dealt with this person, and the sanctions dispensed and severed.

No criminal actions were taken against him by the Gardaí as a result of his actions so he has no conviction and is as free as you or I to enter events.

So the bottom line is that we could be left with no major chess to attend this year while our friend has the ways and means to attend chess events outside of Ireland. It seems he’s having a good laugh at us all as we cut or noses off to spite our faces

Let him play so “we all can play” if he infringes the rules then “kick him out”

checknraise

I completely disagree, if a tournament is being privately run they have the right to refuse entry.

The ICU could have easily told the people in question to cop on and support Galway chess club which would have been the right thing to do. There are a number of players with good reason who are not allowed to play in certain tournaments. It is between the tournament and the player in question nobody else should need to get involved.

As an example I go to a random chess club to play a few games. One guy keeps on smashing me and I decide enough is enough and through a punch. No charges are filed to the police as the incident to the police is still quite minor.

Do you believe I should still be allowed play in that club or play in a tournament they are organising?

The 2 people not allowed play in Galway certainly should have had no issue with not being allowed play.

Player A is accused of assaulting a minor, regular unsporting behavior and is a general bollix at nearly every tournament.

Player B threw a pint of beer on the arbiter.

Are you telling me Galway Chess Club were unreasonable not allowing them to play?

This incident is a reflection on how poorly the ICU is currently being run.

Sparks

Tychoo wrote: »

[he] is as free as you or I to enter events.

If by "as free as" you mean "can be refused entry by the organisers, the same way as anyone else".

Let him play so “we all can play” if he infringes the rules then “kick him out”

Why don't you volunteer your kid to be the one he infringes the rules with instead of someone elses?

gordongekko

Sparks wrote: »

If by "as free as" you mean "can be refused entry by the organisers, the same way as anyone else".

Why don't you volunteer your kid to be the one he infringes the rules with instead of someone elses?

Let him play and as the hotel to refuse him entry. Problem solved.

Sparks

gordongekko wrote: »

Let him play and as the hotel to refuse him entry. Problem solved.

At which point the hotel will just say "Oh, we're playing pass the buck are we?", take his money and then point the Gardai to the organisers if/when something happens.
Problem not solved.

reunion

checknraise wrote: »

I completely disagree, if a tournament is being privately run they have the right to refuse entry.

And this is the norm for every NON-FIDE sanctioned tournament. A FIDE rated tournament can deny entry but the world championships has to permit those that qualify.

So the ICU run events (Junior Championships/ NCC/ Senior) permits anyone to play that meets the criteria. Every other event that is ICU Rated but NOT run, can refuse entry to individuals.

checknraise wrote: »

Player A is accused of assaulting a minor, regular unsporting behavior and is a general bollix at nearly every tournament. and was found guilty of using force on a minor by the icu

Player B threw a pint of beer on the arbiter at a committee meeting where he also threatened other members of the executive.

Are you telling me Galway Chess Club were unreasonable not allowing them to play?

This incident is a reflection on how poorly the ICU is currently being run.

Just added the bold items to clarify the reasons why an organiser would be negligent to permit these individuals to interact with minors or compete against individuals they have threatened or threatened.




I can't wait for the AGM and the current executive to politely step aside and let someone with common sense run things.

One of the few things running properly at the moment is the Junior Officer role.

reunion

Tychoo wrote: »

The I.C.U has options but decided to take up his case as this person is under no current sanction by the ICU (he could have other sanctions from other organisations) and enters into a series of correspondence with GCC after a month of taking no action (which is a week before the event) to contact the organisers. They do not wait for any resolution.

The I.C.U. finally takes the action of informing FIDE not to rate the results from the rapid play event. They do this without any disciplinary committee or any due process or any consultation with members or people effected.

The I.C.U do not alter their policy or investigate how they could have handled the Rapidplay incident better or how they could improve their policy or consult with organisers for feedback. The GCC, under threat of the I.C.U not rating the event (even after giving approval), responds by cancelling the Galway congress so members don't invest money and time for an event the I.C.U would deliberately sabotage. to which several other organizers of events have appeared to back GCC and also threatened to cancel coming events as the I.C.U have not changed or altered their policies and have shown that they will not even rate national events (NCC). so it’s looking like we’ll have no chess to play.

Had to fix that for you. You omitted some key details.

This whole fiasco - Galway tournament, Galway rapidplay - is a result of the ICU.

Player A has been banned from other events previously. It seems they gave some courteous to Ennis and came up with a compromise. However, they didn't extend the same to Galway (or even let organisers/players know about it).

pawntof4

reunion wrote: »

Player A has been banned from other events previously. It seems they gave some courteous to Ennis and came up with a compromise. However, they didn't extend the same to Galway (or even let organisers/players know about it).

From my limited understanding of the situation with Player A. Was the person not punished by the ICU and didn't they "serve their time". When should the punishment end?

Lecale

There are 2 issues really:
You're talking about tournament organisers - either Official ICU or Club - having the right to bar entry.
Then you have the right of the ICU to refuse to handle rating events.

I don't think anyone really argues over the first issue. It is more the second issue that is the trouble. That is acerbated by the fact that you are making up a policy on the hoof on a fairly big issue.

reunion

pawntof4 wrote: »

From my limited understanding of the situation with Player A. Was the person not punished by the ICU and didn't they "serve their time". When should the punishment end?

They served their "time" for any ICU organised event, any ICU rated event, and any FIDE rated event held in Ireland so they can now enter ICU organised events. This does NOT grant them automatic right to enter any FIDE or any ICU rated event in Ireland. Could you really post that with a straight face and say that player A should be allowed to compete in Cork again?

I presume we can agree that a tournament may refuse entry to an individual even if they are in good standing with the ICU.


Also Player A is still banned from being appointed to any position of authority. AND has a suspended sentence currently. So his "time" isn't finished until his suspended sentence is concluded so I wouldn't call him a member in good standing (more like a member on thin ice). People without sanctions or suspended sentences are in good standing.

Sparks

pawntof4 wrote: »

When should the punishment end?

It already has. This isn't part of that sanction, it's the organisers of a private event having the option to refuse entry to individuals, which is a pretty standard thing in many walks of life in Ireland (that "Management reserves the right to refuse service" sign you'll see in most businesses is the most visible example).

However, it ought to be noted that Galway gave him an option to enter the competition so long as he publicly stated that he would not behave badly. That way they had something to show aggrieved third parties in case they had a complaint about him to bring to GCC. That option was not taken up, and got treated rather stupidly (see the details earlier in the thread).

This is a fiasco that was chased after, not one that was unavoidable.

sinbad68

Sparks wrote: »

However, it ought to be noted that Galway gave him an option to enter the competition so long as he publicly stated that he would not behave badly. That way they had something to show aggrieved third parties in case they had a complaint about him to bring to GCC. That option was not taken up, and got treated rather stupidly (see the details earlier in the thread).

This is a fiasco that was chased after, not one that was unavoidable.

Yes , galway gave him an option alright , to be publicly humiliated for the sake of entering a tournament .The truth is, they simply didn't want him there and acted like a stubborn mule instead of being pragmatic and paid the price ( so did the entrants ), creating a lot avoidable trouble for many people. Both gcc & icu are to blame but galway's share is greater.

sinbad68

maol wrote: »

I spoke with one of the main Irish weekend organisers a few days ago and indeed what's being reported elsewhere about tournament organisers being up in arms is true. I just hope that there are some sensible people who are wiling to run for office at the next ICU AGM. I usually ignore chess politics, but I was hoping to play a weekend tournament or two this coming season!

If so many organisers are against icu executive , then they should have NO trouble nominating candidates ,raising a small army to show up in agm and grab power and go for a pint afterwards to celebrate instead of moaning from the sideline and sniping in the blogs.