TB testing

P_Cash

foxy farmer wrote: »

Vet had my results when i called 2 weeks after kill date.

Ok, I'm hoping closer to 2 wks than 6.

Kill date is tomorrow

orm0nd

foxy farmer wrote: »

Vet had my results when i called 2 weeks after kill date.

I presume that was positive for lesions

tim04750

P_Cash wrote: »

Ok, I'm hoping closer to 2 wks than 6.

Kill date is tomorrow

I rang the factory the day the cow was killed and they were able to tell me no visible lesions
Dept need six weeks to assemble an answer on lesions, but will take up to 12 weeks to culture
If tb is strong in the sample it cultures quick, lower amounts of tb take longer to culture, and they will give it 12 weeks to be sure if nothing is showing

foxy farmer

orm0nd wrote: »

I presume that was positive for lesions

No. Both killed out clean. Another test due early Sept and confident they'll pass. No doubtfuls or small lumps in last test. A few of the neighbours had annual tests lately and all went clear.

orm0nd

foxy farmer wrote: »

No. Both killed out clean. Another test due early Sept and confident they'll pass. No doubtfuls or small lumps in last test. A few of the neighbours had annual tests lately and all went clear.

tim04750 wrote: »

I rang the factory the day the cow was killed and they were able to tell me no visible lesions
Dept need six weeks to assemble an answer on lesions, but will take up to 12 weeks to culture
If tb is strong in the sample it cultures quick, lower amounts of tb take longer to culture, and they will give it 12 weeks to be sure if nothing is showing

tim's post kinda explains why I assumed it was +

P_Cash

Don't really have to wait now to hear from dept/vet as i rang factory and the Bullock indeed had lision.

So, now I've 2 tests to face, early Oct and early dec.

Apart from that is there anything else i should see coming from a dept point of view.


Id normally of load the cattle in nov time, would ye advise holding now until New Year, as looks like i can't sell until dec 10ish, assuming i have two free tests.

AP2014

P_Cash wrote: »

Don't really have to wait now to hear from dept/vet as i rang factory and the Bullock indeed had lision.

So, now I've 2 tests to face, early Oct and early dec.

Apart from that is there anything else i should see coming from a dept point of view.


Id normally of load the cattle in nov time, would ye advise holding now until New Year, as looks like i can't sell until dec 10ish, assuming i have two free tests.

If prices are decent off load, last november and december prices were great and kept increasing. Will it pay to hold? Silage? Hardship and your time?

P_Cash

AP2014 wrote: »

If prices are decent off load, last november and december prices were great and kept increasing. Will it pay to hold? Silage? Hardship and your time?

Ya I'll have the silage as cutting some this week, hardship and time is my issue, i don't have slats just a dry shed, I'll find it had to keep the cattle if the vet gives me my cards back dec 5th. I'll prob have already a week or two on silage done. Out wintered with access to shed for feed and shelter.

Buford T. Justice XIX

One reactor:(

Earliest i can sell now is late December when prices are at their lowest.

3 reactors from 3 different groups of stock grazed on different parts of the farm. I wonder how that can be explained

Parishlad

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

One reactor:(

Earliest i can sell now is late December when prices are at their lowest.

3 reactors from 3 different groups of stock grazed on different parts of the farm. I wonder how that can be explained

Sorry to hear that! Were the cattle mixed together at any stage?

If follow up tests are clear and you get the go-ahead in December it might be better, price wise, to hold on to them until late January at least. What age,type of cattle are they?

Buford T. Justice XIX

Parishlad wrote: »

Sorry to hear that! Were the cattle mixed together at any stage?

If follow up tests are clear and you get the go-ahead in December it might be better, price wise, to hold on to them until late January at least. What age,type of cattle are they?

20 friesian/friesianX cull cows normally sold as stores/forward stores in nov/dec/jan and 40 of this years calves which i don't have housing for:(.

They wouldn't have been mixed together but different stock would have moved between groups but those 3 would have been in different groups since late last year.

Ah, feck it anyway:(

I said

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

One reactor:(

Earliest i can sell now is late December when prices are at their lowest.

3 reactors from 3 different groups of stock grazed on different parts of the farm. I wonder how that can be explained

It's pure dog****e to happen,went clear at start of week thank fcuk,the neighbours are dropping like flies with it

Milked out

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

20 friesian/friesianX cull cows normally sold as stores/forward stores in nov/dec/jan and 40 of this years calves which i don't have housing for:(.

They wouldn't have been mixed together but different stock would have moved between groups but those 3 would have been in different groups since late last year.

Ah, feck it anyway:(

Any feed lots around. You may come across as a distressed seller but if push comes to shove could be a better option than holding stock and no space for em?

Buford T. Justice XIX

Milked out wrote: »

Any feed lots around. You may come across as a distressed seller but if push comes to shove could be a better option than holding stock and no space for em?

I asked the Dept man about selling to designated farms who aren't allowed to sell any stock, only to factory and he told me there was no such units.:rolleyes:

I may have to ask someone else.

I will have to rethink my wintering plans, maybe the ewes will have to move on or spend a few bob on penning in the new shed. I must put the thinking cap on over the next few days. I need to move some stock soon to get a bit of cash moving into the system:(

Milked out

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

I asked the Dept man about selling to designated farms who aren't allowed to sell any stock, only to factory and he told me there was no such units.:rolleyes:

I may have to ask someone else.

I will have to rethink my wintering plans, maybe the ewes will have to move on or spend a few bob on penning in the new shed. I must put the thinking cap on over the next few days. I need to move some stock soon to get a bit of cash moving into the system:(

Maybe the rules changed since but I thought a herd with a feed lot status can buy off restricted herds? Their stock could only leave for slaughter and not sold on. They could a few years back anyway

freedominacup

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

I asked the Dept man about selling to designated farms who aren't allowed to sell any stock, only to factory and he told me there was no such units.:rolleyes:

I may have to ask someone else.

I will have to rethink my wintering plans, maybe the ewes will have to move on or spend a few bob on penning in the new shed. I must put the thinking cap on over the next few days. I need to move some stock soon to get a bit of cash moving into the system:(

I sold teaser that was after getting wicked last week. Sold to a dealer/finisher with a feedlot herd number. Plenty of the dealers who act as factory agents have these herd numbers. You wouldn't be that much of a distressed seller considering these lads would often be your most likely customer for store cows in a mart anyway. Get a couple of them to look at the cows. You'll need to get dept permission but a letter outlining the animal welfare and environmental implications of not getting the permit should focus minds. Always remember it's their fault you have a tb breakdown. It's their responsibility to eradicate the disease.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Milked out wrote: »

Maybe the rules changed since but I thought a herd with a feed lot status can buy off restricted herds? Their stock could only leave for slaughter and not sold on. They could a few years back anyway

That is my understanding also but will have to check to make sure.

freedominacup wrote: »

I sold teaser that was after getting wicked last week. Sold to a dealer/finisher with a feedlot herd number. Plenty of the dealers who act as factory agents have these herd numbers. You wouldn't be that much of a distressed seller considering these lads would often be your most likely customer for store cows in a mart anyway. Get a couple of them to look at the cows. You'll need to get dept permission but a letter outlining the animal welfare and environmental implications of not getting the permit should focus minds. Always remember it's their fault you have a tb breakdown. It's their responsibility to eradicate the disease.

Thanks for that, I will get hold of a few the coming week.

I was talking to a neighbour earlier about the outbreak. It was from land bought and cleared after being warned about elegibility for SFP. I wonder if those guys had to pay for the incidental losses caused by their 'foresight', would the rules be as strongly enforced.

blue5000

Sorry to hear that buford, have you enough feed for the winter? Could you out winter weanlings?

Sheep breeder

buford
you can sell to a feedlot with only slaughter out when restricted,the animals passport is stamped slaughter only, a lot of finishers are going down the road of slaughter herd and resulting in a once a year herd test and are restricted all the time so TB is no problem to them instead of testing every time they have a reactor animal.

Buford T. Justice XIX

blue5000 wrote: »

Sorry to hear that buford, have you enough feed for the winter? Could you out winter weanlings?

Loads of feed thankfully. Brilliant year for grass here, had more silage in first cut this year than both cuts last year. If the weather dries a bit and spring is alright then I will be grand.

Housing though will be a big problem even if I out winter the strongest. I will still need grass when the cows and ewes go out.

blue5000

If you could get rid of those 20 cull cows off to a feedlot before the next herd test it would be a big help, older cows are more likely to go down than younger cattle in my experience anyway. Pm me what county you are in. Some of them feedlot lads are absolute sharks though, when they smell a bit of tb/dept induced distress, it's like a shark tasting blood

Capercaillie

blue5000 wrote: »

If you could get rid of those 20 cull cows off to a feedlot before the next herd test it would be a big help, older cows are more likely to go down than younger cattle in my experience anyway. Pm me what county you are in. Some of them feedlot lads are absolute sharks though, when they smell a bit of tb/dept induced distress, it's like a shark tasting blood

Feedlot lads will rape you with price. The feed-lot system of only having to test once a year irrespective of TB status is a disgrace and being able to buy in stock from reactor herds. It's one rule for the normal farmer but the big lads get preferential treatment.
Two feedlot men near me have their cattle out grazing in the fields. They used to be testing constant before, due to all the TB they had and now only once a year. Since those lads went feedlot-status everybody else around are always going down with TB!!! Giving TB to badgers as well.

blue5000

Capercaillie wrote: »

Feedlot lads will rape you with price. The feed-lot system of only having to test once a year irrespective of TB status is a disgrace and being able to buy in stock from reactor herds. It's one rule for the normal farmer but the big lads get preferential treatment.
Two feedlot men near me have their cattle out grazing in the fields. They used to be testing constant before due to all the TB they had and now only once a year. Since those lads went feedlot-status everybody else around are always going down with TB!!! Giving TB to badgers as well.

Some of them have developed a 'very good working relationship' with the dept vet allocated to them. IMO these vets need to be moved around a bit more often.

Capercaillie

blue5000 wrote: »

Some of them have developed a 'very good working relationship' with the dept vet allocated to them. IMO these vets need to be moved around a bit more often.

Greasing the paws heavy

royaler83

Sheep breeder wrote: »

buford
you can sell to a feedlot with only slaughter out when restricted,the animals passport is stamped slaughter only, a lot of finishers are going down the road of slaughter herd and resulting in a once a year herd test and are restricted all the time so TB is no problem to them instead of testing every time they have a reactor animal.

Capercaillie wrote: »

Feedlot lads will rape you with price. The feed-lot system of only having to test once a year irrespective of TB status is a disgrace and being able to buy in stock from reactor herds. It's one rule for the normal farmer but the big lads get preferential treatment.
Two feedlot men near me have their cattle out grazing in the fields. They used to be testing constant before, due to all the TB they had and now only once a year. Since those lads went feedlot-status everybody else around are always going down with TB!!! Giving TB to badgers as well.

My neighbour is talking about going "feedlot status". I'm wary of it to be honest as he can buy in all sorts, never have problems round here with TB.:mad:

I never knew it could be done till now. Is there much to setting it up & what are the advantages to him apart from not being tied up if he has a reactor?

Capercaillie

royaler83 wrote: »

My neighbour is talking about going "feedlot status". I'm wary of it to be honest as he can buy in all sorts, never have problems round here with TB.:mad:

I never knew it could be done till now. Is there much to setting it up & what are the advantages to him apart from not being tied up if he has a reactor?

He can never sell stock in mar. It's a huge advantage being able to buy in stock from reactor herds, they can get them for half nothing.

royaler83

Capercaillie wrote: »

He can never sell stock in mar. It's a huge advantage being able to buy in stock from reactor herds, they can get them for half nothing.

That's unreal, then why do all finishers not go this way? Surely the dept keep a tight eye on them? A lad could be at it & buying in screws of yolks and no-one round would know :rolleyes:

AP2014

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

One reactor:(

Earliest i can sell now is late December when prices are at their lowest.

3 reactors from 3 different groups of stock grazed on different parts of the farm. I wonder how that can be explained

Last year prices took off in November and December so you never know again this year could be the same.

Buford T. Justice XIX

AP2014 wrote: »

Last year prices took off in November and December so you never know again this year could be the same.

I hope you're right AP.

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Loads of feed thankfully. Brilliant year for grass here, had more silage in first cut this year than both cuts last year. If the weather dries a bit and spring is alright then I will be grand.

Housing though will be a big problem even if I out winter the strongest. I will still need grass when the cows and ewes go out.

I think I have sorted out housing anyway. The straw is normally stored next to the loose housing but I can get most of the young stock in there. I will store half the straw in the machinery sheds and rent a neighbours empty shed for the other half, just a mile up the road. Hopefully he will be game:(

I will wait till scanning in about 2 weeks to decide what to do with the cows but there are 10 I want to get rid of anyway so if I can get a half decent for them I will leave them off.

And I was hoping for a quiet winter this year:o

awaywithyou

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

I hope you're right AP.


I think I have sorted out housing anyway. The straw is normally stored next to the loose housing but I can get most of the young stock in there. I will store half the straw in the machinery sheds and rent a neighbours empty shed for the other half, just a mile up the road. Hopefully he will be game:(

I will wait till scanning in about 2 weeks to decide what to do with the cows but there are 10 I want to get rid of anyway so if I can get a half decent for them I will leave them off.

And I was hoping for a quiet winter this year:o

sorry to hear BTJ.... was it a cow, calf or yearling that reacted?(not that it matters)

i wouldnt sell to a feedlot... them fcukers will offer you sweet fcuk all for your animals.... hold tough.... will the reactor be blood tested??

Buford T. Justice XIX

awaywithyou wrote: »

sorry to hear BTJ.... was it a cow, calf or yearling that reacted?(not that it matters)

i wouldnt sell to a feedlot... them fcukers will offer you sweet fcuk all for your animals.... hold tough.... will the reactor be blood tested??

A young bull to replace the current lad. No blood.

I am thinking of looking for more snares for badgers because the 3 were in different lots of cattle all year.

I will probably look for 3 45 day tests as well to catch anything that might be there earlier. I hate thinking of single reactors for the next flipping year.

awaywithyou

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

A young bull to replace the current lad. No blood.

I am thinking of looking for more snares for badgers because the 3 were in different lots of cattle all year.

I will probably look for 3 45 day tests as well to catch anything that might be there earlier. I hate thinking of single reactors for the next flipping year.

does the dept call to you and set up snares to catch badgers?? they done it here for a couple of yrs... came in feb each yr.. set up snares and called back everyday for ten days... did same on outfarm... some badgers were caught.... however we never got any information back as to whether they were tb positive or not...

Buford T. Justice XIX

awaywithyou wrote: »

does the dept call to you and set up snares to catch badgers?? they done it here for a couple of yrs... came in feb each yr.. set up snares and called back everyday for ten days... did same on outfarm... some badgers were caught.... however we never got any information back as to whether they were tb positive or not...

The Dept have it contracted out to the FRS round here. They came about 4 months ago and cleared out a big nest of badgers bounding myself and my neighbour but no idea if they found any positives in them.

Capercaillie

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

The Dept have it contracted out to the FRS round here. They came about 4 months ago and cleared out a big nest of badgers bounding myself and my neighbour but no idea if they found any positives in them.

Local removal of badgers decreases TB in the short term, but in long term increase the incidence of TB.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Capercaillie wrote: »

Local removal of badgers decreases TB in the short term, but in long term increase the incidence of TB.

Any source for that?

Capercaillie

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Any source for that?

Read it from a journal by G. Wobeser. Don't have the exact name of article. Principle is sound though. If you remove localised population of badgers you will get migration and mixing of badger populations which results in increased transmission of TB. Badgers from cull areas (not killed) will be highly stressed and will shed more TB.

awaywithyou

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Any source for that?

yeah FRS do it here too.... presume its the same man.. from moyvane i think... think he does hoof paring too...


it is well known that if you have badgers and dont have TB... then dont disturb the badgers you have.....

The man in red and black

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Any source for that?

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB0QFjAAahUKEwjDqseT6-3HAhVTjpIKHd0sCvM&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.agriculture.gov.ie%2Fmedia%2Fmigration%2Fanimalhealthwelfare%2Fdiseasecontrols%2Ftuberculosistbandbrucellosis%2Fdiseaseeradicationpolicy%2FDepartmentsBadgerPolicyJan13.doc&usg=AFQjCNF7ZOQxSjiJKID5CE0hkr2lfidgdg&bvm=bv.102022582,d.aWw

There is alot of conflicting data out there on the spread of TB by badgers and whether culling small populations of badgers leads to an increase or a decrease. The epidemiologists lecturing us in UCD said there was good evidence to back up both claims so it is still uncertain. They seemed confident that smaller culls can lead to neighbouring badgers extending their roaming territories and that if they are a TB herd then this may spread TB to surrounding areas.

One interesting bit of info they seemed confident about is that there is more Cow-cow and Cow-badger transmission than there is badger-cow or badger-badger. I can't find a reference for that particular theory right now but it was noted in a lecture and the lecturer seemed confident in it.

foxy farmer

Had my first 60 day test last monday. Was done by Dept vet.. Read on Thursday and had one cow put down as "doubtful". She advised me to get rid of her. As the cow is currently rearing an April calf I said I'd wait till near the next test just to give the calf a chance.
Got a call from the DVO this morning saying that they've decided to take her out as a reactor due to the cow having high readings back in 2013.
Apparently the tests are showing up lumpy with the last few months around west cork and they want to get on top of it.

farmerjj

foxy farmer wrote: »

I'm in the same boat since 26 June. 2 reactors here. Dept called on Thursday about valuer. Knew one off the list and he called that evening. I always knew the skin test wasn't 100% accurate but he told me it's only accurate at picking up around 3-4% of true reactors. So 96 97% of cattle slaughtered as reactors aren't reactors at all. Make sure you find out how they kill out i.e. if they have lesions.
Apparently its showing up in greater numbers this year. 60 odd years of testing and its worse than ever. Pure and utter joke.

How come it took so long for your 60day test?

foxy farmer

farmerjj wrote: »

How come it took so long for your 60day test?

2 cows weren't taken till 12th of july. Thats 16 days after reading. Then 70 days till retest. Dept sent out letter informing me that theyd be doing retest but this couldn't happen till the 14th of Sept and had to be done by 28th sept. l got a letter a few days later from the vet saying she'd be doing the test on 21st sept. 60 day test isn't 60days apparently. Vet was saying next test should be 120days after removal of first reactors. That would be Nov 9. Will be interesting to see when I'll be told to do it.
They make up new rules as they go along. Around here a few yrs back whole townlands were being locked up if 1 or 2 farms had reactors. Luckily most calves had been sold on so wasnt a major burden but dealing in the marts was out for everyone in the area.

foxy farmer

Forgot to say that my 2 reactors had no lesions after being slaughtered.

Buford T. Justice XIX

I just came across this paper, Intensive Farming link to Bovine TB

http://www.exeter.ac.uk/news/research/title_480545_en.html

Interestingly, herds above 150 cattle have a 50% higher chance of a TB outbreak than herds of 50 and under. Granted, English data but probably fairly transferable to here also.

Parishlad

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

I just came across this paper, Intensive Farming link to Bovine TB

http://www.exeter.ac.uk/news/research/title_480545_en.html

Interestingly, herds above 150 cattle have a 50% higher chance of a TB outbreak than herds of 50 and under. Granted, English data but probably fairly transferable to here also.

They seem to be quoting a lot of contributory factors - size of herd, maize, silage, boundaries etc. but it all sounds a bit lightweight in terms of solid findings. The link (of increased risk) to the herd size could be as a result of increased buying in/turnover of stock thereby exposing the herd to a greater probability of exposure.

Edited to say that maybe I should hold fire till I read the full paper.

J.O. Farmer

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

I just came across this paper, Intensive Farming link to Bovine TB

http://www.exeter.ac.uk/news/research/title_480545_en.html

Interestingly, herds above 150 cattle have a 50% higher chance of a TB outbreak than herds of 50 and under. Granted, English data but probably fairly transferable to here also.

It's hardly surprising except that it's only a 50% increase. Allowing all other things being equal with 3 times as many cows there always more chance of 1 going down. Add in variables directly related to herd size such as 3 times the cows grazing an area 3 times the size and the potential for an animal to come in contact with it increases.

having read the article though it does read like a study to support the theory of badgers transmitting tb to cattle. I would have thought that in areas with hedgerows another possibility of reduced tb was due to less animal to animal contact over boundary fences. The maize research may have merit but it seems a strange thing to have investigated with no other crops or enterprises investigated or at least reported.

I don't doubt badgers carry tb and can transmit it to cattle however this study appears to have looked at factors that could be linked to badgers but has provided no evidence of the behaviour of the badgers in these areas and didn't seem to offer any other possibilities other than badgers.

foxy farmer

Just wondering how are lads faring out since they were locked up? Had my second clear test on thursday so hopefully should be getting all clear from Dvo shortly. Almost 9 months tied up and no lesions found in 2 reactors and one doubtful cow that were removed.

roosky

Hi all,

I bought in a batch of cattle and there are some of them 355 days since their last TB test down to 40 days for others.

Do the cattle need to be tested annually as in do I need to get them tested in the next ten day???

Thanks,

Alan

whelan2

roosky wrote: »

Hi all,

I bought in a batch of cattle and there are some of them 355 days since their last TB test down to 40 days for others.

Do the cattle need to be tested annually as in do I need to get them tested in the next ten day???

Thanks,

Alan

Are you planning on selling them soon, when is your annual test due?

greysides

You don't need to test them until your annual test is due. I'm not sure what the rules are if you were sending other animals to the factory as there's something about the proportion of your herd that's out of test to be able to do this. If you're not sending animals to the factory before these will be tested in your herd then there isn't a problem.

roosky

greysides wrote: »

You don't need to test them until your annual test is due. I'm not sure what the rules are if you were sending other animals to the factory as there's something about the proportion of your herd that's out of test to be able to do this. If you're not sending animals to the factory before these will be tested in your herd then there isn't a problem.

I bought in the 20 heifers for summer grazing, Im a sheep farmer so no other cattle in the herd they will be kept till November and depending on the market will be sold or wintered, no other cattle going to factory and my annual herd test usually is around September or October.