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Consumer advice question - plumbing from an RGI [Registered gas installer]

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  • 05-07-2015 11:11pm
    #1
    masculinist
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,616 ✭✭✭


    The story is as follows :

    I could have done this myself if I had time but an outdoor garden tap was installed in May by a RGI registered Gas installer and Plumber. It seemed fine on the day. Weather for using it was not the best so nobody was outdoors to use it.

    Now its July and its been dripping when ''tightly closed'' within 6 to 7 weeks of installation. This tiny trickle comes out of the business end of the tap so its an internal problem with the tap and not a problem with the connections.

    There is no hard water problem at the water source and never has been.

    The tap never was misused. It hasn't been hit by a sledgehammer etc. It is in a quiet protected sheltered corner of the garden away from kids and balls, sheltered from everything. In fact it hasn't been used until the sun came out and we all know when that happened.

    The installer was found on Facebook and claims on his Facebook page to be a RGI [registered Gas installer].

    A few messages on Facebook with a description of the problem and enquiring as to whether there was any serviceable part inside such as a washer to replace and he said the problem is a faulty tap. At first he wanted to blame hard water. Then after a brief dialogue he said it was the tap being faulty.

    However after admitting the tap he was paid to provide and install was faulty he said it would cost ten Euro to get another one. He said it was not his responsibility any longer. It's as though he is disconnecting himself mentally from the reality that he provided a faulty tap. He claims because I was happy with it on the day that this means it wasn't faulty when he installed it. However the opposing argument is that something doesn't have to fail immediately to be faulty.
    What are his legal responsibilities ? He is refusing to give any warranty for the tap. Surely even a tap would be guaranteed to function for a year ?

    If this guy was to install a gas heater and it leaked after a month , how would he also not be responsible ? There is simply no point paying twice for a job to be done properly, is there ?

    What is the next step here ? What are the consumers rights and avenues of restitution if any ?
    Tagged:


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    #2
    goodlad
    Registered Users Posts: 3,224 ✭✭✭goodlad


    He is just another cowboy that washes his hands of a job the second he leaves the property and has no concept of consumer rights.

    You can bet he actually believes himself to be in the right here that its nothing to do with him. The idea that the tap has failed and isn't fit for purpose means nothing to people like him.

    Tell him to come out and change the tap and when he is finished hand him a fiver and show him the door.

    Your issue here is the cost is so Tiny to put a new tap on. If he was working on Gas and there was an issue you have an avenue of complaint as he is RGI registered (supposedly), but there is no such setup like this for a plumber sorting a tap for you.


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    #3
    slimjimmc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,787 ✭✭✭slimjimmc


    His legal responsibilities are that he should fix/replace the faulty tap or give you some of your money back (he's entitled to be paid for the other plumbing work). If he doesn't you can take him to the Small Claims Court. It would cost you €25 to lodge a claim with the SCC so you should consider if it's even worth your while. However since you are capable of replacing the tap yourself that's probably your best option.

    BTW : have you checked if he fitted an stopcock to shut off the water in the winter and that it is fully open.


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    #4
    masculinist
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,616 ✭✭✭masculinist


    Thanks for the advice. What about the sale of goods and supply of services act etc ? is this usually enforced through the small claims court ?
    slimjimmc wrote: »
    His legal responsibilities are that he should fix/replace the faulty tap or give you some of your money back (he's entitled to be paid for the other plumbing work). If he doesn't you can take him to the Small Claims Court. It would cost you €25 to lodge a claim with the SCC so you should consider if it's even worth your while. However since you are capable of replacing the tap yourself that's probably your best option.

    If he is in the wrong and I am right then I consider if I take him to the SCC this will make him think twice before he does the same to another customer. So I can do this and consider the extra 20 quid lost or so to be a charitable contribution to society.
    He really blew a chance of a lot of future work not just on my own house. I could have had work for him lined up worth hundreds on some commercial properties but its been Thursday since I spoke to him and hes not calling me with a guilty conscience so... I need to decide my next step. I have his name and business name. Can I get his business address from a database of RGI registered people ? I think I need his address to lodge a scc claim.

    I paid him the money for a complete service. I wanted a working tap installed. So I am confused as to how the plumbing work can be separated from the tap in terms of a legal claim. Without a working tap he basically just leaves a hole in my wall with a leak which will become personally expensive if I am forced into accepting a water meter.
    Now I can read a few diy manuals and assemble tools and parts etc but it means I have to travel to get what I need. I think I have the tools. I just don't have plumbing parts. It would have costed time and money to instal it myself anyway. if you remove the faulty tap, theres no plumbing work of any value done because its just a hole in the wall with a leak.

    slimjimmc wrote: »
    BTW : have you checked if he fitted an stopcock to shut off the water in the winter and that it is fully open.

    The kitchen is at the rear of the house. The kitchen sink is below the kitchen window which looks out into the garden.
    All he did was connect in a branching pipe from the mains just below where it connects with the kitchen sink. He drilled a hole in the wall to the outside and fed it through a very short distance and stuck a tap on it. I did think in hindsight a way of selectively turning it off on the inside would have been useful but had rationalized that if I go on holiday I would turn off the whole supply to the house while away. Is another valve on the inside just before it leaves the house what you mean by a stopcock ? would it be a good idea to instal one of these if I fix it myself ?


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    #5
    slimjimmc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,787 ✭✭✭slimjimmc


    masculinist wrote: »
    Thanks for the advice. What about the sale of goods and supply of services act etc ? is this usually enforced through the small claims court ?
    Yes, the SCC frequently make rulings on cases involving consumer rights.
    masculinist wrote: »
    If he is in the wrong and I am right then I consider if I take him to the SCC this will make him think twice before he does the same to another customer. So I can do this and consider the extra 20 quid lost or so to be a charitable contribution to society.
    Using the SCC to teach someone a lesson is a poor strategy. The procedure can take months but can be quite pain free for both parties and the SCC may not even rule in your favour.
    masculinist wrote: »
    So I am confused as to how the plumbing work can be separated from the tap in terms of a legal claim.
    If the plumbing is ok and is channeling water to the tap then there is nothing wrong with it. If a simple repair or replacement of the tap is all that is needed to resolve the problem then that's the extent of your claim. The SCC is there to remedy a wrong not to leave you in profit by effectively getting the pipework done for free.
    masculinist wrote: »
    Is another valve on the inside just before it leaves the house what you mean by a stopcock ? would it be a good idea to instal one of these if I fix it myself ?
    I've installed one to allow me to isolate and drain down the outdoor pipework in winter to avoid any risk of frost damage. Whether this works for you depends on your layout.


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    #6
    masculinist
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,616 ✭✭✭masculinist


    slimjimmc wrote: »
    Using the SCC to teach someone a lesson is a poor strategy. The procedure can take months but can be quite pain free for both parties and the SCC may not even rule in your favour.

    How is it pain free if he ends up having to pay as a result of the claim ?

    I have text records showing he did the job, agreed to do the job , acknowledged he did the job, acknowledged and agreed the tap was faulty but claimed it wasnt his responsibility for providing a defective tap.
    He did not provide a receipt. Was he legally obliged to provide a receipt? How can I ramp up the pressure regarding receipts/tax implications of not providing a receipt etc to convince him to do the job he said he would do ? Is asking relevant tax and receipt questions a better strategy to punish someone who rips off the consumer ?

    slimjimmc wrote: »
    .
    If the plumbing is ok and is channeling water to the tap then there is nothing wrong with it. If a simple repair or replacement of the tap is all that is needed to resolve the problem then that's the extent of your claim. The SCC is there to remedy a wrong not to leave you in profit by effectively getting the pipework done for free.

    would the wrong not include both the replacement tap and also cost of labour for installation of the new tap ?
    slimjimmc wrote: »
    I've installed one to allow me to isolate and drain down the outdoor pipework in winter to avoid any risk of frost damage. Whether this works for you depends on your layout.

    I planned to link up this outside tap to a shed and put a washing machine outdoors. So that sounds like a good idea to drain the system in between use so it can always be used even in cold weather.


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    #7
    Tails142
    Registered Users Posts: 2,117 ✭✭✭Tails142


    A washer is 50cent, find a youtube video how to replace a washer, move on


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    #8
    masculinist
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,616 ✭✭✭masculinist


    Tails142 wrote: »
    A washer is 50cent, find a youtube video how to replace a washer, move on

    You didn't read the OP now did you ? It is a non serviceable tap according to the plumber. I said to him , if its something as simple as that just to tell me what to do and I'll save him the bother but he insisted himself the tap was defective yet at the same time refuses to accept responsibility for providing a defective tap.


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    #9
    slimjimmc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,787 ✭✭✭slimjimmc


    You should be able to get his business address from http://www.rgii.ie/support/find-a-gas-installer.100.html

    As I understand there is no legal obligation to issue a receipt or a VAT invoice in this type of transaction.
    You know nothing of his tax affairs so there's no point going down that path.

    If you go the SCC route your claim can include any reasonable costs necessary to resolve the problem, that can include both the tap itself and reasonable fitting costs.


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