Now Ye're Talking to - an Orthodox Jewish Irish woman

Boards.ie: Niamh

Our guest this week is an Orthodox Jewish woman who was raised in Ireland. She has since moved abroad and joined a Hasidic community. She is happy to answer your questions about the Orthodox Jewish religion, growing up in Ireland and living in a Hasidic community. She will not be answering any political questions (relating to the Israeli-Palestine conflict or otherwise); this AMA is going to be from a religious/cultural perspective only. I'm sure it's going to be very interesting!

I'm an Orthodox Jewish Irish woman, AMA

Hi folks, will be very happy to answer any questions you might have

riffmongous

I wish you good luck with this, I think it could be very interesting. My question is about growing up in Ireland. Looking back, how integrated into Irish society did you feel while you were a child and then later before you left? Was it tough being part of such a small community and what school did you go to?

I'm an Orthodox Jewish Irish woman, AMA

riffmongous wrote: »

I wish you good luck with this, I think it could be very interesting. My question is about growing up in Ireland. Looking back, how integrated into Irish society did you feel while you were a child and then later before you left? Was it tough being part of such a small community and what school did you go to?

I actually converted in my late teens, so I grew up the same as the majority of Irish people attending a Catholic school and whatnot. I only started becoming involved in the Jewish community in Ireland shortly before I left it. To be honest, Judaism in Ireland is almost non-functioning -- in terms of keeping kosher, going to the mikveh and raising a Jewish family with a Jewish education system, it's extremely difficult. I think most Jews living in Ireland either have to be very lax in their adherence and 'give up' on certain things, or else they really have to make big sacrifices in terms of time to stay Jewish.

phill106

How do you feel about people requesting kosher meals who are not of your faith? (orange is the new black as example)

P_1

Correct me if I'm wrong but I always assumed general Irish society (our fondness for beers and fried meat) would have been somewhat incompatible with adhering to Orthodox Judaism. Was that the main reason for you leaving Ireland?

harr

That's is the one question I was going to ask ,how difficult is it to keep kosher in Ireland as in finding kosher food and the other aspects of keeping kosher?
Do you find socialising in Ireland difficult ?

Corvo

What inspired you to leave Catholicism?

tailgunner

How many languages can you speak? Is Yiddish your day-to-day language?

riffmongous

I'm an Orthodox Jewish Irish woman, AMA wrote: »

I actually converted in my late teens, so I grew up the same as the majority of Irish people attending a Catholic school and whatnot. I only started becoming involved in the Jewish community in Ireland shortly before I left it. To be honest, Judaism in Ireland is almost non-functioning -- in terms of keeping kosher, going to the mikveh and raising a Jewish family with a Jewish education system, it's extremely difficult. I think most Jews living in Ireland either have to be very lax in their adherence and 'give up' on certain things, or else they really have to make big sacrifices in terms of time to stay Jewish.

Thanks for the answer, to follow up, do you think it would be easier if Ireland had a larger Jewish community? Or any ideas on how Jewish life in Ireland could be encouraged?

Also, I'm afraid I dont know too much about the different types of Judaism, but what attracted you to Hasidism?

Jimoslimos

How do you feel about the treatment of women within Orthodox Jewish societies? For example the ban on women driving their children to school in London.

Do you have to shave your head?

WoolyJumper

What was it that led you to converting to Judaism?

TwoGallants

I used to live near the Jewish museum in Portobello, and enjoyed visiting the old synagogue there as well. I think the last census in Ireland had 2,000 self proclaimed Jews, which is a significant reduction from what it used to be (although the community in Ireland was never particularly large). What, do you think, is the main reason for the decline of the Jewish community in Ireland/Dublin? Emigration/assimilation? Assuming its the latter, do many assimilated Jews (by which I mean, those who have married in to the Christian Irish community, practising or non practising) still maintain Jewish customs, identity or traditions? Is it possible for a few generations to go by and then for the grandchildren of these marriages to 'come back' to the old faith?

Greenmachine

Can you explain the concepts of work from an orthodox Jewish perspective. Would for example a motion activated light constitute work. Can you tells us about the rules surrounding diet, how food is prepared, what you can't eat and what you can? Can you tell us what the rules are based, and how open they are to interpretation. When they have applied since.

I'm an Orthodox Jewish Irish woman, AMA

phill106 wrote: »

How do you feel about people requesting kosher meals who are not of your faith? (orange is the new black as example)

I think it's a bit strange, but whatever floats their boat :P Kosher food isn't necessarily 'healthier' so I don't know why they'd want to eat it. Most Jews can even admit that the milk substitutes used in certain kosher meals and products (since it's not allowed to cook milk and meat) and nowhere near as tasty as the real deal. Keeping kosher can be time consuming and pretty inconvenient, but the only real reason for doing it is because that's what G-d wants us to do.

P_1 wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong but I always assumed general Irish society (our fondness for beers and fried meat) would have been somewhat incompatible with adhering to Orthodox Judaism. Was that the main reason for you leaving Ireland?

Lol actually of all things, Irish beer is one of the few kosher things available! Whenever I visit Ireland with my husband, he drinks beer from the bottle in my parents' house and it's one of the few social things we can eat/drink together. Fried meat isn't the problem- just meat in general, unless it's slaughtered according to the laws of shechita and is cooked by a Jew.

harr wrote: »

That's is the one question I was going to ask ,how difficult is it to keep kosher in Ireland as in finding kosher food and the other aspects of keeping kosher?
Do you find socialising in Ireland difficult ?

Keeping kosher in Ireland really is extremely difficult. There's only one shop where you can buy kosher labelled food in the country and that's located in Dublin. And really, it's only a small section of a much bigger supermarket with loads of products imported from Israel. Certain things are ok to eat without a hechsher (ie a label) but we needed to download this list from the London Beit Din's website and really hunt out specific brands (and even within those brands are specific products only- for example, only Uncle Ben's boil in the bag rice is kosher). For some reason, Irish Pride bread is also kosher, although those who keep kashrut strictly as we do don't eat it because it's 'pat akum' (bread baked by a non-Jew).

Most fruits and vegetables are fine, except those considered 'infested' (ie likely to contain bugs) such as strawberries, broccoli, cauliflower and blackberries. It was actually quite a treat since in Israel one needs to be very careful in where they buy their fruits and vegetables this year because it's 'shmitta year' (I won't go into it too deeply, but basically fruits and vegetables need to be bought and disposed of very carefully). Fish is also a possibility for those keeping kosher, although we can't allow someone to use a knife on the fish which might have been used on shellfish or something else not kosher. This is why I went to the market and bought a whole fish, guts and all- it was a messy job to prepare it, but very worthwhile!

There's also the problem of using the oven and stove top in a non-kosher home. I had to turn my mom's oven and stove on for an hour on maximum before I was able to use it and had to bring all my own pots, pans, dishes, cutlery etc. She was not impressed, but my parents have thank G-d gotten used to all our unusual requests.

Socialising in Ireland can be difficult because we can't just go into a restaurant and sit with family and friends. Also, sometimes topics come up in conversation which just aren't acceptable to talk about, particularly dirty jokes and whatnot. We usually try to be polite about it and just steer the conversation in a different way, but we need to be firm in our boundaries too. I also feel like since I've moved away, I've simply had less in common with people in Ireland since I got back. We don't watch TV, don't keep up with the news and 90% of the books we read are related to Judaism. It makes making connections with others more difficult.

Corvo wrote: »

What inspired you to leave Catholicism?

Many things. I always found dozens of contradictions between Catholicism and what it says in the 'Old Testament'. We're commanded to not make for ourselves a graven image, yet Catholicism has statues and portraits everywhere. It actually made it difficult to pray in my parents' house because we needed to remove them beforehand. Catholicism just doesn't have any clear borders- no dress code for modesty, nobody really keeps any of the rules regarding relations before marriage or birth control anymore, no commitment outside of half an hour a week in the church. I figured that if I really believed in something, I wanted to really dedicate my life to it 100% and not simply go with the flow because of tradition.

I think the biggest deal breaker for me was that Catholicism just doesn't encourage intellectual learning. It always felt like 'do it because the priest said so.' In Judaism, there's so much argument and so many questions- learning is a way of life. I go to classes on Judaism up to 5 times a week, because it's truly fascinating. My husband learns even more (although he is employed full time too). It's what we talk about at the kitchen table and it's what guides all of our decisions in life. If we're not sure on something, we can even text our rabbi- something that happens pretty frequently. If we're having issues in our marriage, we go to talk with him too. It's a very close community and truly a way of life.

the beer revolu

If the Jewish people are G-d's chosen people, and Judaism is inherited, can a convert, like yourself, ever be fully accepted by the wider Jewish community?
Also is it much the same for a man to convert as a woman?

nc19

I'm an Orthodox Jewish Irish woman, AMA wrote:

............no dress code for modesty........

Why do you feel you need to be told what to wear? Can you not wear clothes you want while still being modest?

As an atheist myself I will never understand things like this.

I see that you mentioned the Beth Din clinic in London. I have some dealings with them as I work in a hospital where we have a large number of orthodox jew patients. Would you refuse a life saving medication for yourself or a member of your family if the medication was not kosher (or parev)?

I'm an Orthodox Jewish Irish woman, AMA

Greenmachine wrote: »

Can you explain the concepts of work from an orthodox Jewish perspective. Would for example a motion activated light constitute work. Can you tells us about the rules surrounding diet, how food is prepared, what you can't eat and what you can? Can you tell us what the rules are based, and how open they are to interpretation. When they have applied since.

Great question! 'Work' is considered any form of activity that was employed for creating the Mishkan (i.e. the tabernacle in the temple) as well as its derivatives. For example, they made curtains for the mishkan which needed to be dyed, so we can't dye on shabbat. This lends itself to practical implications when, for example, it is considered 'dying' to apply make up such as lipsticks on shabbat.

TwoGallants wrote: »

I used to live near the Jewish museum in Portobello, and enjoyed visiting the old synagogue there as well. I think the last census in Ireland had 2,000 self proclaimed Jews, which is a significant reduction from what it used to be (although the community in Ireland was never particularly large). What, do you think, is the main reason for the decline of the Jewish community in Ireland/Dublin? Emigration/assimilation? Assuming its the latter, do many assimilated Jews (by which I mean, those who have married in to the Christian Irish community, practising or non practising) still maintain Jewish customs, identity or traditions? Is it possible for a few generations to go by and then for the grandchildren of these marriages to 'come back' to the old faith?

I think the current Jewish community in Ireland is somewhere around 1,500, but then again the census shows 'self proclaimed Jews' which includes those who are the products of intermarriage where the mother may not have been Jewish or those who did reform or non-orthodox conversions (who are considered by orthodox Jews and halacha as non-Jews). The decline is largely being caused by people intermarrying or else moving to Israel and other countries with major Jewish populations. It's very hard for 'assimilated Jews' to return to Judaism because often after a few generations they're no longer considered Jewish because their mother, maternal grandmother etc is no longer practicing.

WoolyJumper wrote: »

What was it that led you to converting to Judaism?

I was fascinated by the history of the Jewish people- how they had been persecuted continually for centuries and yet never gave in or disappeared. Also, in terms of their philosophy, it's very deep and beautiful. The more I dig into the meaning of Jewish prayers, tehillim (psalms), halacha (laws) and commentary on the Chumash (5 books of Moses) the more I realise what an extraordinary way of life it really is.

Jimoslimos wrote: »

How do you feel about the treatment of women within Orthodox Jewish societies? For example the ban on women driving their children to school in London.

Do you have to shave your head?

Personally, I live a wonderful life. If anything, I see how secular women are treated around me and feel a great deal of sympathy for them. Constantly being judged in terms of physicality and feeling the pressure to be 'number one' in child rearing as well as a career isn't something I envy at all. The ban on women driving has no basis in Judaism thought or belief- I think it's bizarre and if anything may be inspired by Islamist extremism.

That said, it can't be denied that orthodox women also face their fair share of issues, depending on where they're living and what kind of community they belong to. In my community, women are the driving force- the wife has a huge say in how everything is and if anything her husband looks to her for advice and guidance. They have big families, but this comes from a desire to have big families and the knowledge that this is what is most important in life, not due to lack of choice. However there are some situations in certain communities where women are mistreated. Perhaps she's forced into poverty because her husband isn't supporting a growing family as he should, or else she could be being abused. But this is terribly un-Jewish and most definitely is not the norm.

I don't shave my head, it's very, very, very rare (but does happen). I was 'recommended' to cut my hair before I got married (to make immersion in the mikveh easier since I have hair half way down my waist) but I opted not to. I cover my hair completely with a scarf, without the hairline showing. I put it on in the morning with a velvet band to stop it from slipping off and have a pretty big collection at this stage of about 30 scarves in different colours. I also put hairbands, pins, clips, sashes etc on it as decoration- a scarf can be made very unique! Of course, nobody should over-do it though, because it stops being modest if it's attracting attention. When I get home in the evening, I take it off around my husband, but not around other family members. When I pray at home or need to answer the door quickly, I throw on a beret hat.

riffmongous wrote: »

Thanks for the answer, to follow up, do you think it would be easier if Ireland had a larger Jewish community? Or any ideas on how Jewish life in Ireland could be encouraged?

Also, I'm afraid I dont know too much about the different types of Judaism, but what attracted you to Hasidism?

I think the best thing is for the Jews in Ireland to move to Israel. This is the ideal and part of the in gathering of the exiles and getting closer to geula/ redemption.

My husband explained Hasidism in a very beautiful way recently. You walk into a room full of riches- you know that there's gold, luxurious furniture and amazing wealth in that room. This room is Judaism. But hey, it's dark- so you can only know it intellectually but not have it revealed to you. Hasidism is the force that brings light into this room like a torch- it gives you glimpses into the hidden beauty of what's around you. Hasidism looks into the depths of Judaism and includes kabbalah and the writings of the zohar. It's also got a great deal of happiness and joy - this is how it came about, people wanting more of a focus on serving G-d with joy instead of simply sitting and learning all day. We have a lot of fun :P On shabbat we sing and dance, it's a very positive and happy way of seeing the world.

tailgunner wrote: »

How many languages can you speak? Is Yiddish your day-to-day language?

I don't speak yiddish, but I do my groceries in a neighbourhood which has some Yiddish speakers. I speak English, Irish (from school), German (from secondary school) and Hebrew (the language I speak at home).

I'm an Orthodox Jewish Irish woman, AMA

Deleted User wrote: »

I see that you mentioned the Beth Din clinic in London. I have some dealings with them as I work in a hospital where we have a large number of orthodox jew patients. Would you refuse a life saving medication for yourself or a member of your family if the medication was not kosher (or parev)?

The London Beit Din is a Jewish court which decides on many matters- divorce, marriage, conversion, kashrut etc. I'm not sure how they're connected to a hospital, maybe in providing kosher food? Jewish ethics always favours life- even if there's a fast for which not fasting will lead to the person being cut off from the Jewish people (such as Yom Kippur) a sick patient can break the fast if there's a chance it'll harm him. In fact, any rule can be broken in Judaism for the sake of 'pikuach nefesh' (saving a life). For example, yesterday was a fast day. I'm currently pregnant, so I was completely exempt. Actually, Judaism is much more pragmatic than Catholicism in this regard- even for a pregnant woman like myself, my life will always take precedence over that of the unborn fetus.

nc19 wrote: »

Why do you feel you need to be told what to wear? Can you not wear clothes you want while still being modest?

As an atheist myself I will never understand things like this.

I believe that if something is important, it should follow a clear structure. For example, it's important that people drive safely and don't cause car accidents. This is why we have rules of the road, traffic lights, indicators etc. I can dress very fashionably, but I do think that there should be an overall consensus of what needs to be covered. There's the minimum (covering the knees, elbows, collar bone and, for a married woman, hair) but each community can chose how they wish to achieve this. In my community, women don't wear wigs, they wear headscarves. Also, most women (like me) only wear skirts and dresses to the floor. My husband also wears full sleeved shirts and long pants only. He also covers his head (in Ireland with a hat) and has payot and a beard.

the beer revolu wrote: »

If the Jewish people are G-d's chosen people, and Judaism is inherited, can a convert, like yourself, ever be fully accepted by the wider Jewish community?
Also is it much the same for a man to convert as a woman?

Converts are really held in great esteem in Judaism. Conversion isn't encouraged, because we believe that everyone, including non-Jews, has the possibility to earn a place the same as a Jew's in the World to Come by following the Seven Noahide Laws. It's just much harder to achieve for a Jew because they have more rules to follow. But some of the greatest people in Judaism- including the famous commentator Onkelos, were converts. The entire book of Ruth is dedicated to the story of a righteous Jewish convert. The idea is that the convert's soul was on Mount Sinai when the Jewish people received the Torah- they always had their Jewish soul, but it's in their merit that they went through the process of converting to be part of the Jewish people. I've never had anyone say anything negative to me about being a convert- very much the opposite. I've been asked to give lectures in Hebrew to people about my conversion story because they find it very inspiring that someone would go to so much trouble to become something they take for granted.

harr

Thanks for your answers ,being kosher is a lot more complex than I ever imagined ..:eek:

I'm an Orthodox Jewish Irish woman, AMA

I'm an Orthodox Jewish Irish woman, AMA wrote: »

The London Beit Din is a Jewish court which decides on many matters- divorce, marriage, conversion, kashrut etc. I'm not sure how they're connected to a hospital, maybe in providing kosher food? Jewish ethics always favours life- even if there's a fast for which not fasting will lead to the person being cut off from the Jewish people (such as Yom Kippur) a sick patient can break the fast if there's a chance it'll harm him. In fact, any rule can be broken in Judaism for the sake of 'pikuach nefesh' (saving a life). For example, yesterday was a fast day. I'm currently pregnant, so I was completely exempt. Actually, Judaism is much more pragmatic than Catholicism in this regard- even for a pregnant woman like myself, my life will always take precedence over that of the unborn fetus.


I believe that if something is important, it should follow a clear structure. For example, it's important that people drive safely and don't cause car accidents. This is why we have rules of the road, traffic lights, indicators etc. I can dress very fashionably, but I do think that there should be an overall consensus of what needs to be covered. There's the minimum (covering the knees, elbows, collar bone and, for a married woman, hair) but each community can chose how they wish to achieve this. In my community, women don't wear wigs, they wear headscarves. Also, most women (like me) only wear skirts and dresses to the floor. My husband also wears full sleeved shirts and long pants only. He also covers his head (in Ireland with a hat) and has payot and a beard.


Converts are really held in great esteem in Judaism. Conversion isn't encouraged, because we believe that everyone, including non-Jews, has the possibility to earn a place the same as a Jew's in the World to Come by following the Seven Noahide Laws. It's just much harder to achieve for a Jew because they have more rules to follow. But some of the greatest people in Judaism- including the famous commentator Onkelos, were converts. The entire book of Ruth is dedicated to the story of a righteous Jewish convert. The idea is that the convert's soul was on Mount Sinai when the Jewish people received the Torah- they always had their Jewish soul, but it's in their merit that they went through the process of converting to be part of the Jewish people. I've never had anyone say anything negative to me about being a convert- very much the opposite. I've been asked to give lectures in Hebrew to people about my conversion story because they find it very inspiring that someone would go to so much trouble to become something they take for granted.

Thank you for your answer. They provide information as well on whether medication is parev or not. Certain medication such as lactulose are not considered parev. A very useful resource as I would not like any patient to take something that contradicts their faith.

I'm an Orthodox Jewish Irish woman, AMA

harr wrote: »

Thanks for your answers ,being kosher is a lot more complex than I ever imagined ..:eek:

Lol! My pleasure! And yeah, it really is complex- and that's just the beginning. I have whole volumes of books about it, since it's mainly my responsibility in the house. And I didn't even get into the business of checking grains for bugs, soaking vegetables, separating dishes and using different milk/meat ovens and microwaves!

I'm an Orthodox Jewish Irish woman, AMA

Deleted User wrote: »

Thank you for your answer. They provide information as well on whether medication is parev or not. Certain medication such as lactulose are not considered parev. A very useful resource as I would not like any patient to take something that contradicts their faith.

Ahh when they say 'parev' they mean that it's neither 'meaty' or 'milky'. This is important for medicines because some use animal products. This doesn't mean they can't take them, it just means that if something contains animal derivatives in a way which means it 'meaty', they can't consume anything 'milky' for approximately 6 hours. Sometimes medicine contains things which are downright unkosher, but if it's life saving medication, it's always allowed.

Gloomtastic!

Thanks for taking part!

Are you a regular visitor to Boards?

Can you please explain the tradition of your husband's coat and hat. I've heard the different types are due to where the family originated from. Is this true? Also, if you visit Isreal how does he cope with the heat?

Best of luck with the baby.....

buggy beag

How do you feel about palestine?or because you are living in ireland would it not bother you?

LoonyLovegood

This is really interesting, thank you for doing this! I've always been interested in Judaism, it's always seemed like the most feminist friendly of the bigger religions, if that makes sense? Would you consider the Hasidic community to be open to women, or is it more closed off for them?

I'm an Orthodox Jewish Irish woman, AMA

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

Thanks for taking part!

Are you a regular visitor to Boards?

Can you please explain the tradition of your husband's coat and hat. I've heard the different types are due to where the family originated from. Is this true? Also, if you visit Isreal how does he cope with the heat?

My pleasure! Thanks for all the great questions- they've got me pondering on many things I've just set myself to do automatically these days.

I used to be on boards quite a lot, but since I haven't really kept in touch with what's happening in Ireland I've found it less relevant for me (sorry boards!) Also, I'm both working and learning as well as being very pregnant and running a home at the moment, so haven't had much time. I took this morning off to run some errands, so glad to be here before I head off to my studies in another hour.

My husband doesn't wear the black and white 'outfit' on a daily basis. We're part of a hasidic community, but one which doesn't place much emphasis on these kinds of things. Some men in his yeshiva wear the whole shebang all the time, but it's definitely not the norm for them. I supposed you'd call our community 'national religious' but on the stricter side of the spectrum. My husband wears a white long sleeved shirt and black trousers for shabbat, holidays and weddings, but with a white knitted kippa. He has a beard, but only about an inch long. He has payot, but ones which can be tucked behind his ears. During the week, he wears blue long sleeve shirts and 'dress pants' with a large knitted kippa.

The black coat and big hat are all a matter of minhag (custom) and tradition. Some do it to affiliate themselves with a certain Rabbi or school of thought within Judaism. Even small things, like the size and shape of the hat, can discern between where a person studies or what level of kashrut he holds by.

But these things are all very superficial- at the end of the day, a Jew knows himself what's important, and my friends range from women who wear a strip of material on their head or no hair covering with jeans to ladies who don a full headcover with long shapeless clothes and black stockings. It has no reflection whatsoever on what's going on inside.

I'm an Orthodox Jewish Irish woman, AMA

LoonyLovegood wrote: »

This is really interesting, thank you for doing this! I've always been interested in Judaism, it's always seemed like the most feminist friendly of the bigger religions, if that makes sense? Would you consider the Hasidic community to be open to women, or is it more closed off for them?

Judaism most certainly is the most 'female friendly' of the Abrahamic faiths in my opinion (then again, I could be biased!) Hasidic Judaism really gives women a lot of freedom to express themselves- be that in singing, dancing, art, etc. We still have very strict gender segregation- for example, at my wedding there was a divider between women and men's dancing, but I actually think that it allows men and women to feel more free in expressing themselves. Men dance very differently when they're only dancing with each other - almost to a point where it's quite rowdy and dangerous :P It depends on the Hasidic community, but I definitely feel very liberated and if anything, since arriving here I've felt much closer to my 'true' self. Social life is based around studying deep spiritual texts with one another and self reflection on our middot (traits / characteristics) and our overall life views-- it forces us to face ourselves much more than if I'd stayed in Ireland and continued in my 20s going to pubs and clubs and basically trying to escape looking at my life and examining where I was going and what I wanted in this world, from my marriage, for myself and how to strengthen my relationship with G-d.

buggy beag wrote: »

How do you feel about palestine?or because you are living in ireland would it not bother you?

I'm living in Israel, and as mentioned in the OP, won't be discussing political issues. That's a whole other thread in itself!

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

Also, if you visit Isreal how does he cope with the heat?

Best of luck with the baby.....

We live in Israel, thank G-d, and at the end of the day everyone's sweating. My husband has taken it upon himself to wear woolen tzitzit (a shirt worn under the clothing with tassels) and I really respect him for it- it's not an easy mitzvah and is certainly the more strict interpretation to wear one made of wool. We're hot. I'm sitting here currently in short shorts and a string top because I'm at home, but will put on a long dress, headscarf and long sleeves before going outside and it's in the mid 30s. But like I said, clothes or no clothes, we're all sweating. If anything, wearing more clothes protects one's skin from the sun- particularly important for those like myself (typical Irish skin!)

Many thanks!

LoonyLovegood

Thanks so much for the answer! I've always been really interested, I'll have to do some more looking up.

handlemaster

Orthodox jews choose not to work, is that True ?