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Now Ye're Talking to - an Orthodox Jewish Irish woman
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From my own experience, once Jews come to Israel they generally simply become Israelis- sometimes it takes a generation or two, but holding a grudge against someone because of their origins is generally seen as being petty. In fact, Russian and Ukrainian (also Bukhari) Jews generally hang out together because they have more similar cultures. At least for the first generation- then everyone pretty much merges.How does Israel keep the peace between all the countries that Jews have moved from to get to Israel.
Eg would a Russian Jew ignore a Ukrainian Jew. Or does their faith make them able to communicate with each other respectfully.
Is there a lot of people converting to the religion to escape their own countries and their own particular circumstances.
I've never heard of anyone converting to escape their own circumstances or home country. The Israeli government has been very careful about such cases. A person needs to be a citizen before they are allowed to go through the conversion process in Israel, or else they need to sit before a special acceptance committee of rabbis and receive approval (which can take up to a year- quite a long time if someone is poor and cannot work legally). That generally weeds out those with disingenuous intentions. I had to do a lot of things before getting citizenship and beginning the conversion process- I won't go into it in detail, but I was very grateful of connections I had at the time.
Antisemitism is one of the longest and inexplicable forms of hatred in the world, and Jews don't understand it either. There are other religions with dietary restrictions, wars over land, different physical appearances etc but none have quite engendered such an enduring feeling of hate and contempt as the Jewish people. I personally think that such a hatred can only be explained spiritually. The role of Jews is to bring light to all the nations (once again, not a place of being 'better' than them, but that's literally what is written). I feel that because Jews have been using their talents for other avenues, whether it be science, literature, start ups etc, the world is disappointed. The world wants redemption and they simply expect more from Jews than they do anyone else. That's why the criticism of Israel is much more harsh than that of any other nation- people expect 'better' from them. I do think that G-d has intentionally driven the world against us because without this Jews would have assimilated and disappeared, but I also feel that antisemitism reflects a worldwide longing for the messiah and ultimately the bringing of perfection to the world.greenbicycle wrote: »One bit I could never get my head around is the persecution of Jews however, what is that all about? Is it just another case of people disliking those of another religion as we see all the time (unfortunately!) or is there something about Judaism in particular that people are so against?
The Israeli government gives subsidies to those who study in yeshiva, and the Israeli taxpayer pays for this. There are some yeshivot (like my husband's) which rely 90% on donations, but some men choose to spend their time learning. I would never, G-d forbid, suggest that someone who is learning is wasting their time. The opposite- that's man's first purpose in this world, after which comes all the material and superficial things. It's when it comes at the expense of his wife and family that I take issue with it. Torah study is and should continue to be a primary focus of our lives and the government should continue to invest in it. However, such a lifestyle is not suited to everyone and those who claim to study and do not are doing a huge disservice to G-d and themselves.handlemaster wrote: »You say there are some jews who choose to study full time ... study what exactly ? Who pays for these people to have this luxury not to work ?
I believe that it will be a while before scientific theories can catch up with what the Torah has to offerthe beer revolu wrote: »You mentioned Adam.
As an, obviously, intelligent and highly educated person, do you really and truly believe in creationism as taught in the old testament?
Do you disregard evolution and other scientific based evidence regarding the age of the earth?
There are many parts of the Torah which aren't meant to be read literally, but are meant to convey a general idea through poetic use of language. I have a really great book about evolution called 'In the Beginning' by Aviezer which explains the subject really well. It's quite a lengthy topic, but personally, I believe that the Torah needs to be read with greater insights than what we see in black and white to be fully understood.
Lol! These Jews mustn't be living in Israel :P Almost everyone here struggles to make ends meet. Go to the supermarket and buy more than 30 euros in groceries and the clerk will ask you in how many payments you wish to pay for it. We're very far from being rich here, but nobody comes to Israel to be rich.Gloomtastic! wrote: »I could be wrong but I would say it is always to do with money and the ability of Jews to a) Make it and b) Keep it.
Great question. Judaism doesn't require reform or evolution- they tried to do that and it fell on its face. Questioning Rabbis, religious leaders and one another is all part of the parcel of being Jewish- people love it! They're such a think as a 'machlochet le'shem shamayim' - a disagreement for the sake of heaven. Jews argue constantly, not to be right or for ego, but for the sake of reaching a greater truth. This is and should always be the goal of any religious discussion.Atomic Pineapple wrote: »Somewhat echoing the beer revolu's questions - you mentioned that Judaism encourages learning rather than in Catholicism where you are supposed to just listen to what the priest tells you and take that as fact.
Does this mean that there is room within Judaism to question religious leaders, religious ways, beliefs and writings? And over the long term change and evolve Judaism?
Are you encouraged to pursue scientific learning and can scientific findings be considered when applying logical thinking to the beliefs of Judaism?
Science and Judaism don't contradict. Science is constantly unearthing things which Judaism knew centuries before- I see this all the time in terms of health and medicine (there's a great deal of medical advice in Jewish works, particularly Rambam). Judaism won't always seem logical, but that's because we're mere human beings and cannot comprehend its depth and richness with our limited resources. We should always strive to attain real truth, but also not allow our egos to convince us that we have all the answers.
Ahh ok, apologies- I wasn't clear. When I said that drinking beer is one of the few things we can do together, I mean in a setting where we're socialising with non-Jewish people such as my parents. Because of the laws of kashrut, beer directly from a bottle is one of the few things which doesn't have any issues. Nice for him :PI'll be honest, I don't know much at all about Judaism.
You mentioned in one of your responses that your husband drinking a beer is one of the few social things you can eat/drink together. Do you mean that in general you have to socialise separately? Why is that? On what occasions can you socialise together? What age does this "segregation" begin at?
In relation to eating kosher, do you go out to restaurants or cafes to eat? You say you live in a hasidic community, does that mean that all of the local businesses cater to Jews?
Gender segregation is generally in any group setting. For example, at a wedding, in the synagogue, sometimes at dinner party tables (although this is much more strict that usual). I can socialise with my husband any time I want, although we do not touch each other in public. This is because for the week of a woman's period and a week afterwards he is not allowed to be with her intimately, and as a consequence not allowed to touch her. So others don't know when this time is, it's better not to touch at all in public.
We go out to eat all the time. We only eat kosher mehadrin (more strict than regular 'kosher') but thank G-d there's no shortage of places which cater for religious Jews. In Ireland, there are no kosher restaurants.
Jews don't believe in the devil. We believe in an 'idea' of Satan, but this is more of a negative force in the world which aids the evil inclination and not as a force opposing G-d. G-d is one, without opposition or competition.Cork boy 55 wrote: »How can you tell the voice of God from the voice of the Devil?
For a Jewish spouse, community life and kosher food, generally.I went to school with a few Jewish people, most of them have left Ireland, have you any idea why is this? AFAIK most went to either London or Manchester.
It's always safe. I've never felt unsafe in Israel- even when there were sirens during all the rockets which came from Gaza last summer. It's just so unlikely that anything bad will happen to anyone that it's not even worth thinking about. Don't let safety be a barrier to visiting Israel- it's a fantastic country (imho!)Deleted User wrote: »I know you wont answer questions on politics regarding Israel/Palestine but this question isn't regarding politics. I have always wanted to visit Israel but was kind of worried about it being dangerous because of the situation, do you think its safe for a tourist to visit these days?
Ahh but you see, this is the issue. If we decide to only follow the laws which seem logical and applicable to us, we're already not doing them for the sake of G-d. We're doing them because we feel that we're entitled to some underlying benefit, and if we don't benefit personally then we have the authority to cast them off. Science is continually unravelling reasons for the laws of kashrut and other Jewish practices which otherwise seemed bizarre and irrelevant. But finding reasons for these laws is unnecessary. We do these things because we're Jews and that's what G-d wants from us-- full stop. It doesn't matter how we feel about them or how inconvenient they are, someone with true fear of heaven will know that it is enough that this is what G-d has commanded.I have a question on Kosher food - I can understand some of the historical basis for the restrictions on how certain types of food should be prepared, or not mixed (food not being prepared under the most sanitary conditions back in ancient times, or food / milk spoiling in the middle eastern heat), but can there be no argument for changing / relaxing some of these restrictions nowadays given that food preservation technology (fridges, vacuum sealing, tinning etc) and food preparation techniques are far more advanced than when these restrictions were first written down? Or is that it, something was decided 2000-odd years ago and that's it, no room for debate at all?
While I respect your choice and freedom to do so, I don't think I could ever be an adherent to a faith (or subsection of that faith, to be more accurate, I guess) that places so many restrictions in terms of what I can eat (and how it's prepared), what I can wear and what I have to do on a daily / weekly basis. Life is too short!
Best of luck to you on your chosen path.
I agree that life is too short. That's why I really wanted to invest in the short time I have here by complying 100% with all that G-d wants from me. Because who knows better than my creator what is best for me?
One of the 10 commandments is not to take G-d's name in vain. While writing it as 'G-d' really is an extra precaution, in my view the more we can make fences around the Torah, the better.Why is G-d written in this way? I have never seen it like that before. I assume it is to respect G-d but in what way and for what reason?
There are generally hechshers on medications, and certainly medication which is unkosher would be very clearly stated in Israel. People are very careful on these things. Even during passover there was a list of medications which may contain chametz made available and pharmacists were advising people on what they could take. But there are almost always alternatives available.aloyisious wrote: »Referring back to your mention of medicines, do you have a list of antibiotics which satisfy the kosher rules, given how some antibiotics contain derivatives of shellfish?
Wow, this is a story in itself. I don't want to invade too much on my parents' privacy in case it becomes obvious who I am, but it was extremely difficult for them. Not so much from a religious perspective, but rather their daughter going to what they consider to be a warzone to submit herself to what they see as being a primitive, extreme and anti-feminist religion.Galwayguy35 wrote: »How did your parents react when you told them you were converting to the Jewish religion and did they convert as well?
They didn't come to my wedding, which hurt terribly for everyone involved. They felt I was too young (very early 20s) and that I didn't know what I was getting myself in for. My husband and I dated for less than a year (and my 'dating' we met once a week, sat on a bench and spoke about our deepest desires, longings and thoughts for life together) and we were engaged for 2 months. Our first touch was when he put the ring on my finger and our first kiss was after our wedding. They were terrified that I'd made a terrible mistake. But once they came to visit and began to see how much happier I am here, and how much more meaning my life had gained since taking this path, they have told me that they couldn't be happier for me.
I became pregnant within 2 weeks of getting married and left it very late to tell them, but they couldn't have been happier for me and are now eagerly anticipating their first grandchild. We still have many hard times. We still all cry. They still get frustrated by all the 'stupid' rules, but they love me and want to see me happy. Thank G-d for my parents, they accept me for whatever and whoever I choose to be.
Wow, really great question! You seem to already have a very good knowledge of Judaism! We love all forms of Hasidut, and our yeshiva is a varied collection of everything. I go to classes by chabadnikim, but we're not classified as 'chabadnikim' per se. For now, we haven't tied ourselves to anything. First and foremost Jews, and if we choose a path such as Breslov etc it will come in time.Benny_Cake wrote: »Within Hasidic Judaism there are multiple sects (is that the right word). I'm aware of Chabad which is highly active, but I know there are many others. Are you affiliated to a particular sect, and if so, what is the primary difference?
Also, what is your view of more liberal forms of Judaism (Liberal/Reform/Conservative etc)?
I don't consider liberal/ reform/ conservative etc to be Judaism. Reform Judaism in Ireland is, at best, Christianity with a Jewish flavour. They basically pick and choose what's convenient and throw out the rest. I simply can't identify with it or regard it seriously as Judaism at all.
We have to be subservient to our husbands? Where's it written? Men have a lot of responsibility towards their wives, as outlined in the ketubah (marriage contract) but women have none towards their husbands (except not to cheat on him, of course). Rather controversial, but I really do question how equally women are treated in Ireland. What I saw wasn't equality, and the more I look back on how I was treated as a woman growing up in Ireland, the more I feel that there were a great deal of things which were really not ok at all and didn't honour me as a woman.I did read your answer on how you have no problem as a woman in Orthodox Judaism, but I just don't understand. You went from a religion that treats women as second class by not allowing them to be priests to one where the woman is totally subservient to the man. You said women are the driving force, but at the end of the day they have to submit to their husbands. How can an Irish woman, who grew up in a country where women are strong and independent, and are treated equally, be happy in that environment?
My parents are completely Catholic, and their reaction to the conversion is outlined in this post. My conversion to Judaism, to make a long story short, stemmed from an encounter I had with a primary school teacher who taught us about the story of the exodus in depth. It sparked an inexplicable interest which simply grew from there. I truly feel that it woke something up in my soul which I'd been looking for all my life. In terms of coming to Israel, the only option an Irish person has to do an orthodox conversion is to go abroad. I chose Israel because I felt a deep connection and sense of belonging to the country, and haven't looked back since.Canis Lupus wrote: »My question is why... Why did you convert to orthodox judaism and ultimately end up in Israel.
What do/did your parents think or maybe you can clarify as to whether your parents are already Jewish or even if they are how do they feel about you moving to a hasidic community.
Many thanks! I think that portrayals of Jews in popular culture generally have traces of truth, particularly for American Jews, but everything with a grain of salt. Not sure of accurate representations though. If I was still in Ireland I'd opt for the Jewish school in Terenure, as it's the only real option.All the best with your pregnancy OP.
How do you feel about portrayals of Jews in popular culture? Are there any portrayals that you think are accurate?
If you were still living at home would you want your child to go to the Jewish school in Clonskeagh, or would you send them to the local Educate Together/ Catholic school?
Oh yeah! It's a topic which emerges continually. We pray for the messiah to come every single day- there's never a time when a Jew should give up hope in the messiah coming- and not only coming, but coming soon. Recent years have showed many miracles for the Jewish people, in particular the ingathering of the exiles to the land of Israel. I truly believe that he will return very soon, and pray for it. The messiah represents the world achieving completeness, true peace and a perfected state- it's something we all should long for.Kaylani Cool Peacock wrote: »I've a question regarding Messiah.
How do you see His return and how do you believe it will happen?
JaseBelleVie had quite an impressive list of questions, I'll try to answer them all--
1) Unobservant Jews- are they looked down upon?
- Answer: In Judaism there's a concept of what translates as being a 'broken baby' - ie people who grew up with no education of their Jewish roots and therefore cannot be held accountable for the sins they commit because they had no control over their circumstances. It's a huge deal for someone to return to Judaism and to living an observant life, but unfortunately it's quite rare. The best thing for these people is to be welcomed by observant Jews in a warm, open and loving way- not to be judged or cast out. The Jewish people are like one body. Why beat my leg for stepping in the wrong direction? Don't I see that I'm simply hurting myself? So it is when one Jew 'misbehaves'. B'ezrat Hashem they'll all come to know and love what it is to be a Jew. Until then, we need to be patient and reach out whenever possible.
2) Fruit infestation - isn't it outdated? can kashrut be updated?
Answer: I answered this earlier in this post about kashrut not depending on whether we think it's relevant or not. But in terms of fruit (and even more so, vegetable) infestation, it's a VERY real issue. You're eating bugs constantly, you just can't see them without checking carefully. I'm always finding bugs in dates, strawberries and lettuce.
3) The baal teshuva movement- are there barriers?
Answer: It's never easy to return to Judaism- the amount of learning is a lifelong task. But I feel that it's a very fulfilling task and highly commend those who take it upon themselves. However, there's no room for making Judaism 'easy' or giving them a watered down version of Judaism to lessen the 'burden'.
4) LGBT people- what's the deal?
Answer: It's very, very clear that all of the above is expressly forbidden. There's no room for being tolerant of sin. However, one should never denounce the person, but rather the action itself. G-d gave people different challenges in life, some greater than others, and I have sincere sympathy for those who face these challenges. But it doesn't make such actions acceptable.
5) Brit Milah - why??
It's done because Abraham made a covenant with G-d and this covenant was marked on the flesh as a sign for all future generations. Honestly, the most distressing part for a baby is having their nappy taken off. I think that waiting til he's a grown man would be much more cruel, since the skin hardens, whereas a baby's skin is much softer and I've heard of scientific evidence that exactly at 8 days they develop the ability to clot blood and heal much better than at any other time. I've never heard of 'brit shalom' but it sounds like it could be something 'reform'. A Jew without a brit milah has not entered the covenant and it's questionable whether he's even a Jew at all in the halachic sense.
Really glad of all the very thoughtful questions, many thanks!
Cheddar, FTW.With all your orthodoxness (is that even a word) are you allowed to eat Cheese, if you are, What is your favourite type of cheese?
Hard to know without having met them personally. The fact that an orthodox and progressive Jew are even married suggests they're not terribly strict. Most kids raised religious in such surroundings know not to take food from those outside the home. According to Judaism, the bread was nearly as problematic as the ham. There's just a greater stigma around pork because back in the day Jews used to be taunted by Christians and killed for refusing to eat it, but really the restriction on pork is the same as that on shellfish and many other non-kosher products.Jimbob1977 wrote: »We have Jewish neighbours.
As a child, my Mum served ham sandwiches to one of the Jewish boys. She didn't even realise and he ate them.
When I pointed out the faux pas, she made the boy promise not to tell his parents (one orthodox and one progressive).
What would their likely reaction have been? Are accidents from 'lack of knowledge' forgiven.... or would they have been livid?
I don't want to give too many identifying details, but basically I converted less than 1 year ago and am in my early 20s. My husband became religious later in life- we kinda grew on this journey together. I initially moved to Israel to convert, but always knew I'd want to stayWhat age were you when you converted? Did you convert before or after your met your husband? Was your husband raised as an orthodox Jew?
Also, why did you decide to move to Israel? Was it because of the large hasidic community there?
I answered this a few posts back. It's nearly 2am here so I'm keeping answers concise, apologies if I don't get to answer any fully.Lillianna Bewildered City wrote: »I am interest though as to how people born Jewish view converts in general?
I do miss chicken/cheese melts on bagels. And lasagna. Also, my mom made a rocky road cake last time I went to visit and it pained me not to eat it. A rather cruel thing to do to a pregnant woman, I must say!Ever have cravings for non-Kosher Irish food, fry ups etc.?
Jews gained a reputation as money lenders and diamond merchants because these were the only 'portable' careers on offer. When everyone's chasing you down to kill you all the time, it's not worthwhile opening shops and more permanent businesses. I guess they had more flexibility with these kinds of jobs that they could just pack up and run when necessary.greenbicycle wrote: »I suppose this brings up another question from me, how did jews end up with this stereotype? Is there something in that religion that connects them with money? How was it that jews became so connected to pawn shops etc? Or is it just a coincidence that grew into a culture?0 -
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Thanks for answering my questions.
While I may not have agreed at all with some of the answers given, at least it was enlightening. I realise that you are a member of Orthodox Judaism, and as such will be much more adherent to Jewish laws and customs. I appreciate the honesty and the reasons given (again, even if I did not agree with some of what was said).
But again, thank you for answering the questions clearly and concisely.
Rav todot, Shalom!0 -
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I'm not able to see/hear whatever is in this link (maybe it's only open to Irish viewers?) Overall, like any religion there are issues with the fact that it's being followed by people, not perfect beings, and sometimes they do things which contradict its teachings. I don't know what's going on in this particular case, but this is a rather widespread issue with many individual cases.ballsymchugh wrote: »http://www.newstalk.com/podcasts/Moncrieff/Highlights_from_Moncrieff/93763/
what do you think of this guy's experience on being shunned from his hasidic community?
It's an argument in Judaism whether one needs to buy toothpaste (and mouthwash) with a hechsher (kosher 'stamp') or not, since it's put in one's mouth. The general consensus is that these cannot contain unkosher ingredients, for fear that a person may accidentally swallow them. I just checked, and ours has hechshers.Absoluvely wrote: »Crab is not kosher and toothpaste is not food.
Have you any religious reason to avoid using crab toothpaste?
Bevakasha!JaseBelleVie wrote: »Rav todot, Shalom! My pleasure, lots of a great questions.
Let's just say- there's no way I could have gone through with it if I didn't seriously want to convert and live an observant lifestyle. First there were the bureaucratic issues in securing citizenship to deal with. I can't elaborate, but basically this took 2 years of pulling strings in Ireland before I even came to Israel. After that, I basically studied full-time in a midrasha (women's yeshiva for studying Judaism) full time for almost a year in Jerusalem. It was an amazing time in my life and one of much personal growth, so I wouldn't change it for the world. I really loved my studies. After that, I was scheduled to meet with a Beit Din (board of 3 Rabbinical judges) who questioned me, my 'adoptive family' who I'd been spending shabbat with and my now husband on my observance level. They also asked me many questions in random areas of halacha and daily Jewish living. I passed this and then got a certificate to bring to a mikveh for ritual immersion. This involved getting into a mikveh naked, dunking in the water once in front of a woman, then putting on a plastic coat-like piece of clothing and dunking again with a blessing before 3 Rabbis. Then mazal tov, I become Jewish :P FYI the mikveh thing I also did before my wedding (without the rabbis and the coat thankfully lol) and will have to do again after this pregnancy. It sounds like a horrible process, but it's actually very spiritual uplifting to have this moment when you remove everything- piercings, makeup, even unwanted excess hair (!), go into the water, have that moment with G-d and come out renewed again and ready to be with one's spouse.What did you have to do to convert? What's the process and was it a long journey?0 -
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Thanks very much for all your answers: a tiny insight into a fascinating way of living.
I recall watching Fill the Void, a movie set in a Tel Aviv Jewish community and thinking how beautiful the lifestyle and values were in many ways.
Anyway - thanks again, congratulations and best of luck with your new family 0 -
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