Question from landlord in Rathmines

Rathmines2012

Hello,

Ive just bought a pre 63 house in Rathmines which includes two studios. Its located in a very popular part of Rathmines, bordering on Ranelagh close to town and offices. Im looking to refurbish both studios to a modern standard but ive a question id like some feedback on.

Currently both studios have a kitchenette, shower room, single bed and small dining table. Im thinking of removing the single bed and replacing it with a sofa bed in each. The sofa bed would be around the €350 - €400 mark and have a mattress comparable with a standard single. Ive listed the advantages and disadvantages below. What would be the consensus? Nay or ye?

Advantages
- gives the studio a better finish
- more likely to attract professionals as its like a one bed than a studio - there
isnt a single bed shoved in the corner that doubles as a couch also

Disdvantages
- professionals might be put off by the fact that they have to sleep on a sofa even
though it has a mattress the same as a standard single

ted1

Rathmines2012 wrote: »

Hello,

Ive just bought a pre 63 house in Rathmines which includes two studios. Its located in a very popular part of Rathmines, bordering on Ranelagh close to town and offices. Im looking to refurbish both studios to a modern standard but ive a question id like some feedback on.

Currently both studios have a kitchenette, shower room, single bed and small dining table. Im thinking of removing the single bed and replacing it with a sofa bed in each. The sofa bed would be around the €350 - €400 mark and have a mattress comparable with a standard single. Ive listed the advantages and disadvantages below. What would be the consensus? Nay or ye?

Advantages
- gives the studio a better finish
- more likely to attract professionals as its like a one bed than a studio - there
isnt a single bed shoved in the corner that doubles as a couch also

Disdvantages
- professionals might be put off by the fact that they have to sleep on a sofa even
though it has a mattress the same as a standard single

You expect a professional to sleep on a bed designed for occasional use? No thanks.

Pro Hoc Vice

Rathmines2012 wrote: »

Hello,

Ive just bought a pre 63 house in Rathmines which includes two studios. Its located in a very popular part of Rathmines, bordering on Ranelagh close to town and offices. Im looking to refurbish both studios to a modern standard but ive a question id like some feedback on.

Currently both studios have a kitchenette, shower room, single bed and small dining table. Im thinking of removing the single bed and replacing it with a sofa bed in each. The sofa bed would be around the €350 - €400 mark and have a mattress comparable with a standard single. Ive listed the advantages and disadvantages below. What would be the consensus? Nay or ye?

Advantages
- gives the studio a better finish
- more likely to attract professionals as its like a one bed than a studio - there
isnt a single bed shoved in the corner that doubles as a couch also

Disdvantages
- professionals might be put off by the fact that they have to sleep on a sofa even
though it has a mattress the same as a standard single

Fair play your investing and all that but this is an example of all that's wrong with accommodation in Dublin. It's a scary thought that this is where professionals/any working adult, can afford to live in. Not a comment on you OP but just the situation. I would say put in a Murphy bed and a small sofa.

TheSheriff

As a professional looking to rent in rathmines I wouldnt go near it if it had a sofa bed.

MouseTail

A sofa bed, certainly at that price is not designed for everyday use. There are lots of different solutions for small space living, have a google. It may cost a bit more, but will be infinitely better than what you propose.

Humour Me

Currently living in a studio in Rathmines and agree, I wouldn't go near a place with a sofa bed. They are not designed for full time use as a bed. There is also the hassle of storing the duvet and pillows when you want to actually use it as a sofa.

If you want to make the place look better, lots of built in storage would probably be a better use of your money.

Out of interest how much are you hoping to rent the studios out for?

usernamegoes

The sofa will inevitably break with such frequent use; if you down this road don't blame the tenant.

Teyla Emmagan

Sofa beds aren't made to be slept on every night. Your tenant will do their back in! And they will need replacing far faster.

Please also do.a nice job on the front of the house. It breaks my heart to see lovely old houses around rathmines etc which are clearly in flats and have rotten windows, a garden full of stones and weeds and a million bins!

handlemaster

Its funny the OP spends what I can only imagine was a lot of money on a house there and hes on about putting in sub 400 euro sofa beds. .. The location demands more than that

Rathmines2012

Thanks for all the replies and suggestions.

As it's a pre 63 and a studio, space Is at a premium .My thinking was that this would optimise the space in the studio. Having stayed in studios in cities around the world it is common practice to have non permanent beds insitu, whether this be sofa beds or beds stored behind book cases. The mattresses can be equivalent or even better than what you would a get for a single bed at around the €150 mark and extend the full length of a single bed.

I would probably charge €800 a month and this includes gas, water, a parking permit and LPT

antoinolachtnai

I would look at a wall bed. Not cheap but it is intended as an actual bed for a small space.

http://www.wallbed.co.uk/self_assembly_cubed_vertical.htm

Also looked at the cubed wall bed which is an all in one design, about 1500 euros for a double.

athtrasna

Rathmines2012 wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies and suggestions.

As it's a pre 63 and a studio, space Is at a premium .My thinking was that this would optimise the space in the studio. Having stayed in studios in cities around the world it is common practice to have non permanent beds insitu, whether this be sofa beds or beds stored behind book cases. The mattresses can be equivalent or even better than what you would a get for a single bed at around the €150 mark and extend the full length of a single bed.

I would probably charge €800 a month and this includes gas, water, a parking permit and LPT

No way would I consider a €150 mattress anywhere good enough for a bed to be used every day at that rent.

Also LPT is not a tenant expense so it's disingenuous to advertise it as being included

Rathmines2012

athtrasna wrote: »

No way would I consider a €150 mattress anywhere good enough for a bed to be used every day at that rent.

Also LPT is not a tenant expense so it's disingenuous to advertise it as being included

What would be the exact issues with a €150 mattress? How much do you think should be spent?

I don't want this thread to be derailed by the LPT but it's used for the funding of local amenities and services for which the landlord does not benefit, only the tenant. It may not sit well with tenants but it's a cost on a landlord's business and as such cannot be expected to be absorbed in part or in its entirety by the landlord.

Rathmines2012

Humour Me wrote: »

Currently living in a studio in Rathmines and agree, I wouldn't go near a place with a sofa bed. They are not designed for full time use as a bed. There is also the hassle of storing the duvet and pillows when you want to actually use it as a sofa.

If you want to make the place look better, lots of built in storage would probably be a better use of your money.

Out of interest how much are you hoping to rent the studios out for?

Making plans for built in storage - thanks.

As mentioned in one of the posts above - around the €800 mark.

Rathmines2012

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

Sofa beds aren't made to be slept on every night. Your tenant will do their back in! And they will need replacing far faster.

Please also do.a nice job on the front of the house. It breaks my heart to see lovely old houses around rathmines etc which are clearly in flats and have rotten windows, a garden full of stones and weeds and a million bins!

Unfortunately the government places a lot of restrictions on what can be done to a listed property, many of which are in Rathmines. Improvements have to be done to very specific and costly standards and a lot can't be offset against tax. As an example, placing sash windows in a rented property - pretty much asking for trouble

Rathmines2012

handlemaster wrote: »

Its funny the OP spends what I can only imagine was a lot of money on a house there and hes on about putting in sub 400 euro sofa beds. .. The location demands more than that

It was merely a thought on how to optimise space.

Can you be more specific on what the location demands? Thanks

CaoimheSquee

The fact that you have bought a place and have to pay LPT is NOTHING to do with a tenant.

Michael D Not Higgins

I urge you not to include bills. What happens when a bill for a grand's worth of gas comes in because the tenant leaves it on all the time? Do you ask for more rent?

I'd also back the idea of a wall bed. Much more likely to have a better mattress which will last longer and more likely to go down better than a sofa bed.

faceman

Rathmines2012 wrote: »

I don't want this thread to be derailed by the LPT but it's used for the funding of local amenities and services for which the landlord does not benefit, only the tenant. It may not sit well with tenants but it's a cost on a landlord's business and as such cannot be expected to be absorbed in part or in its entirety by the landlord.

Can this behaviour be reported to the PRTB or Revenue?

This is exactly the type of problem that gives landlords a bad name and is further harming the rental market in Dublin

Michael D Not Higgins

faceman wrote: »

Can this behaviour be reported to the PRTB or Revenue?

This is exactly the type of problem that gives landlords a bad name and is further harming the rental market in Dublin

Might as well include PRTB registration in the inclusive bills.

wersal gummage

I'm not sure what a professional means, is it a solicitor, accountant, architect, dentist etc?

I would consider myself a professional and I would not even include studio apartments in a property search. I wouldn't even stay in an apartment for a weekend if it had a sofa bed or single mattress. A tenant living close to town would not ever be able to have a partner stay over, is that correct? Unless they slept on the floor? I can't see any professional person living in those conditions but who knows.

Can you consider converting the two studios into one proper apartment? I think a modernly furnished apartment (even one bed) will be far more likely to attract a professional, or professional couple, if it has a double or king sized bed.

handlemaster

Rathmines2012 wrote: »

It was merely a thought on how to optimise space.

Can you be more specific on what the location demands? Thanks

Rathmines/ ranelagh is a great location. I'm sure you can throw in crap and get a decent rent but the tenants will not be happy and probably move on. Factor this into your cost, one month here an there adds up when your changing tenants. Get a quote from a carpenter and have some furniture fitted it will pay in the long run. You would be surprised what it could be done for not all carpenters charge through the roof. pLus if the place is comfortable and looks well tenants will pay more

athtrasna

Rathmines2012 wrote: »

What would be the exact issues with a €150 mattress? How much do you think should be spent?

I don't want this thread to be derailed by the LPT but it's used for the funding of local amenities and services for which the landlord does not benefit, only the tenant. It may not sit well with tenants but it's a cost on a landlord's business and as such cannot be expected to be absorbed in part or in its entirety by the landlord.

If the rent is 800 per month I would expect a matress worth at least half that. Ideally more. It's tax deductible for you over 8 years anyway.

LPT is a landlord only expense. You can build it in but again I say advertising it as included is disingenuous

Dearg81

wersal gummage wrote: »

A tenant living close to town would not ever be able to have a partner stay over, is that correct? Unless they slept on the floor? I can't see any professional person living in those conditions but who knows.

You can get sofa beds and wall beds in double size. I was looking into them recently for my spare room and I'm going with a double sofa bed as it will only be used a couple of times a year.

OP - I think wall beds are better space savers and better beds so in your case I would go for one of them.

RasTa

Going rent around that area for a studio seems to be about €650 so good luck getting what you're asking

_Brian

I have a house rented "down the country" but found the thread interesting.

The notion of a sofa bed is awful, the wall bed has to be the best compromise regarding use of space and comfort for the tenant.

On the LPT issue, surely it's expected that a landlord will include all costs into the rent including LPT, PRTB registration and any other expense such as accountancy if an accountant is used. These have to be taken into account to set the baseline cost of the property before setting the rent. Now, I wouldn't go advertising it as being included.. We also include a contingency for unpaid IW bills as this may fall back onto the LL if unpaid by tenant.

So, OP stick in a good bed. It will last longer and provide the tenant with a better standard of accommodation and hopefully they will stay longer - this would more than payback any extra cost.

Lux23

You won't get a single professional willing to pay €800 a month for a studio apartment with a sofa bed. You are most likely going to have to rent to rent allowance recipients for about €600 a month. There are one bed apartments available in the city for €900 so I just don't think you will have much luck finding "quality" tenants.

Emme

Rathmines2012 wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies and suggestions.

As it's a pre 63 and a studio, space Is at a premium .My thinking was that this would optimise the space in the studio. Having stayed in studios in cities around the world it is common practice to have non permanent beds insitu, whether this be sofa beds or beds stored behind book cases. The mattresses can be equivalent or even better than what you would a get for a single bed at around the €150 mark and extend the full length of a single bed.

I would probably charge €800 a month and this includes gas, water, a parking permit and LPT

€350-€400 for a sofa bed and you expect someone to pay €800 a month to sleep on that every night? :eek: I don't mean to be rude but the expression "milking it" comes to mind. There are single mattresses that cost as much as or more than what you are proposing to pay for those sofa beds.

http://www.harveynorman.ie/bedroom/mattresses/ortho-support-single-mattress-3ft.html

http://www.harveynorman.ie/bedroom/mattresses/ortho-dream-single-mattress-3ft.html

http://www.harveynorman.ie/bedroom/mattresses/single-mattress/pocket-premium-single-mattress-3ft.html

I know that Dublin 6 is a very popular area and that space is at a premium. I know it is common practice to optimise space in cities all over the world but you won't get professionals willing to sleep on a single sofa bed. Professionals who can't stretch to a proper one-bed or two-bed are more likely to share a house or apartment. They won't rent a studio without a decent bed and most professionals would want a double bed.

If the studios are too small to fit a double bed and you can merge them together why not make them into a proper one-bed apartment with a double bed. If that is not possible then at least put a proper wall mounted folding bed into each apartment like another poster suggested.

If you cut corners now you will end up paying for it later - tenants are fed up with substandard accommodation and will rightly report any breach of conduct on the landlord's part to the PRTB.

Lux23

For a studio? There are lots of studios available in Rathmines for €600, €800 is much too high.

Barely Hedged

Lux23 wrote: »

For a studio? There are lots of studios available in Rathmines for €600, €800 is much too high.

I think youre misinformed.

A look on Daft and theres a handful at €600 or near it. The condition of the just above the €600 studios mark is questionable. I will be completely refurbishing the studios - new kitchen, shower, tiling, bathroom fixtures and furniture. Theres the availability of a parking permit and the house borders Ranelagh. Theres an upward pressure on rents of about €25 - €50 extra a month on the Ranelagh borders of Rathmines and in Ranelagh itself for studios

Barely Hedged

Emme wrote: »

€350-€400 for a sofa bed and you expect someone to pay €800 a month to sleep on that every night? :eek: I don't mean to be rude but the expression "milking it" comes to mind. There are single mattresses that cost as much as or more than what you are proposing to pay for those sofa beds.

http://www.harveynorman.ie/bedroom/mattresses/ortho-support-single-mattress-3ft.html

http://www.harveynorman.ie/bedroom/mattresses/ortho-dream-single-mattress-3ft.html

http://www.harveynorman.ie/bedroom/mattresses/single-mattress/pocket-premium-single-mattress-3ft.html

I know that Dublin 6 is a very popular area and that space is at a premium. I know it is common practice to optimise space in cities all over the world but you won't get professionals willing to sleep on a single sofa bed. Professionals who can't stretch to a proper one-bed or two-bed are more likely to share a house or apartment. They won't rent a studio without a decent bed and most professionals would want a double bed.

If the studios are too small to fit a double bed and you can merge them together why not make them into a proper one-bed apartment with a double bed. If that is not possible then at least put a proper wall mounted folding bed into each apartment like another poster suggested.

If you cut corners now you will end up paying for it later - tenants are fed up with substandard accommodation and will rightly report any breach of conduct on the landlord's part to the PRTB.

I bought it as a business so yes im looking to maximise my profits, not milk it. Milk it would be running it to the detriment of not getting good and steady tenants. I agree that the sofa bed is not a runner but im just trying to gauge the markets response to it. So often landlords are derided for what they offer so im trying to find out what possible tenants think.

Thanks for the links but lets be realistic on the €999 mattress

The studios would fit a double bed comfortably but it would be a struggle to put a couch in one when the double is there. I was just seeing if people would value a sofa bed with the additional space or the double bed acting as a couch.

Dublin 6 is very popular as you say. I bought for the location - all the social and work amenities within walking distance. People will pay a premium as they dont have the cost of public transport to work and taxis home from a night out (well most nights!)