Question from landlord in Rathmines

Barely Hedged

Lux23 wrote: »

You won't get a single professional willing to pay €800 a month for a studio apartment with a sofa bed. You are most likely going to have to rent to rent allowance recipients for about €600 a month. There are one bed apartments available in the city for €900 so I just don't think you will have much luck finding "quality" tenants.

€900 a month in the city cente - If youre willing to live on Dorset St or Gardiner St and in 95% of the cases in an old fashioned dump.

No offence to the above areas and im not being snobby, just the reality is, theyre no comparison to Rathmines/Ranelagh

Barely Hedged

Dearg81 wrote: »

You can get sofa beds and wall beds in double size. I was looking into them recently for my spare room and I'm going with a double sofa bed as it will only be used a couple of times a year.

OP - I think wall beds are better space savers and better beds so in your case I would go for one of them.

A good link posted above by an earlier poster to a website about them.

It was a consideration but costly compared to just buying a double

Barely Hedged

athtrasna wrote: »

If the rent is 800 per month I would expect a matress worth at least half that. Ideally more. It's tax deductible for you over 8 years anyway.

LPT is a landlord only expense. You can build it in but again I say advertising it as included is disingenuous

Technically, you are correct however the reality is it will be factored in as a cost

Barely Hedged

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

I urge you not to include bills. What happens when a bill for a grand's worth of gas comes in because the tenant leaves it on all the time? Do you ask for more rent?

I'd also back the idea of a wall bed. Much more likely to have a better mattress which will last longer and more likely to go down better than a sofa bed.

I think i might rent it for a month or two and see how the bills go. Its currently gas central heating so a conversion to storage heaters would be an option then

Barely Hedged

Also, just to clear up the username cross over.

I posted under the assumed name at the start as i thought some regulars might use it as an irrelevant stick to beat me with otherwise

Humour Me

Im probably your target renter OP, professional,currently in a studio in Rathmines and paying €800 a month!!

However for my €800 I have a mezzanine studio with:
couch and coffee table
tv units and shelves
dining table with two chairs
kitchen area with loads of storage
understairs storage
double bed upstairs with double wardrobes on both sides of the bed and bedside lockers
Central Heating and bins included in rent

My landlord is a professional landlord who has a number of properties in the area, he is renting out his studios from €600 to €650 a month depending on the location of the building.

If you are saying you can't get a double bed and a couch into the room, then you are not going to get €800 a month from a professional. They are going to be thinking about where they are going to store their stuff, where their friends are going to sit when they come over, my friends dont see my bedroom unless they go up the stairs. Professionals can get a nice house share in the area for less money and shared bills.

Honestly, if you really want to maximise your return for a space that small, I would knock the 2 studios into a really nice 1 bed apartment and aim for professional couples instead.

Rathmines2012

Humour Me wrote: »

Im probably your target renter OP, professional,currently in a studio in Rathmines and paying €800 a month!!

However for my €800 I have a mezzanine studio with:
couch and coffee table
tv units and shelves
dining table with two chairs
kitchen area with loads of storage
understairs storage
double bed upstairs with double wardrobes on both sides of the bed and bedside lockers
Central Heating and bins included in rent

My landlord is a professional landlord who has a number of properties in the area, he is renting out his studios from €600 to €650 a month depending on the location of the building.

If you are saying you can't get a double bed and a couch into the room, then you are not going to get €800 a month from a professional. They are going to be thinking about where they are going to store their stuff, where their friends are going to sit when they come over, my friends dont see my bedroom unless they go up the stairs. Professionals can get a nice house share in the area for less money and shared bills.

Honestly, if you really want to maximise your return for a space that small, I would knock the 2 studios into a really nice 1 bed apartment and aim for professional couples instead.

Thanks for the information. Very useful

RayM

Rathmines2012 wrote: »

Disdvantages
- professionals might be put off by the fact that they have to sleep on a sofa even
though it has a mattress the same as a standard single

I would imagine that people who aren't 'professionals' would be equally put off by that. Whether somebody is a 'professional', a manual labourer, a student or a poorer person who relies on rent allowance, the very least they deserve for their €800 per month is an acceptable bed. If you can't squeeze a decent bed and a small sofa into the room, then you might want to rethink the whole €800 thing. The way the market is right now, you might get away with charging that kind of money, but it doesn't make it morally right.

Lemming

Simple question; would you want to sleep on a €150 mattress for months on end OP?

Barely Hedged

Lemming wrote: »

Simple question; would you want to sleep on a €150 mattress for months on end OP?

http://www.ikea.com/ie/en/catalog/products/70258727/#/40258724

http://www.ikea.com/ie/en/catalog/products/60258761/#/00258759

Bit more http://www.ikea.com/ie/en/catalog/products/70258751/#/90258750

girlafraid

How much was your mattress OP, if it's not too personal a question?
Not a hundred quid from ikea i bet.

antoinolachtnai

The thing is that if you want to produce a high quality product, you have to invest in it. An extra grand or two could give you extra income and position the whole thing differently.

You really have to match the stuff you buy with the quality of the area and the property.

For this kind of location, I would love to fit stuff from this company.

http://www.wallbed.co.uk/self_assembly_cubed_vertical.htm

This is a great thing.

http://www.wallbed.co.uk/sofa_wallbed_flat.htm

It's a wallbed that is a sofa when unfolded. They also have a table in a similar arrangement.

This is expensive gear, but if it succeeds in turning an awkward, small, slightly pokey space into a desireable space then it could be good value. If it could get you from 600 euros to 800 euros in rent then it is worth it, if you can afford it.

Of course, you can't just buy the single piece of furniture, the whole package needs to look the part to make it worthwhile.

It certainly costs a lot. At the end of the day, property, especially heritage type property requires constant, ongoing investment of money, imagination and effort to get the most from it.

You obviously also have to make sure stuff like fire safety is in order as a first priority.

DaveWalsh2020

It's a one bed there not going to give the option much weight... It's astetics that will cause you hassle as it's not durable stick a decent multi purpose bed in. Make sure there comfortable so there not leaving every three weeks.

MouseTail

A Murphy/wall bed would be the best solution if there is space, or a sleeping platform. Failing that a well dressed daybed might be ok. I think one of the showrooms in Ikea is done up like a studio with a daybed.

It actually upsets me that someone might have to pay €800 a month to sleep on a crappy mattress or open a sofa bed every night in a tiny place not big enough to have somewhere to sit and somewhere to lie. It actually makes me really really sad

And yes, I'm a landlord.

ted1

faceman wrote: »

Can this behaviour be reported to the PRTB or Revenue?

This is exactly the type of problem that gives landlords a bad name and is further harming the rental market in Dublin

What behaviour ? Any business will pass on costs either directly or indirectly

Emme

ted1 wrote: »

What behaviour ? Any business will pass on costs either directly or indirectly

That's fair enough if the business is providing a good service. Some businesses cut corners to make a quick buck in a buoyant market - for example a high-end restaurant in an affluent area serves poor quality food made from cheap inferior ingredients but charges gourmet prices for it. This approach only works in the short term and may end up costing the business more in the long term than if they had provided a quality service.

Lux23

Barely Hedged wrote: »

€900 a month in the city cente - If youre willing to live on Dorset St or Gardiner St and in 95% of the cases in an old fashioned dump.

No offence to the above areas and im not being snobby, just the reality is, theyre no comparison to Rathmines/Ranelagh

Have you checked daft? There are plenty of studios for €600 - €700 on Daft. I have a one bed flat for €750 on the SCR and it has all the mod cons including a bed for two!

You have asked for opinions from renters, but it seems you would prefer to ignore those in favour of spending as little as possible.

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faceman wrote: »

Can this behaviour be reported to the PRTB or Revenue?

This is exactly the type of problem that gives landlords a bad name and is further harming the rental market in Dublin

It's a cost, it's going to be worked into the price. You're deluded if you think differently of any business.

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

Might as well include PRTB registration in the inclusive bills.

I'm sure he includes all costs associated with running the business into the price. Nothing unusual there.

Emme wrote: »

That's fair enough if the business is providing a good service. Some businesses cut corners to make a quick buck in a buoyant market - for example a high-end restaurant in an affluent area serves poor quality food made from cheap inferior ingredients but charges gourmet prices for it. This approach only works in the short term and may end up costing the business more in the long term than if they had provided a quality service.

What's that got to do with the post you quoted? The sofa bed idea might be questionable but he's not cutting corners by calculating his total costs to include when coming up with an asking price.

Michael D Not Higgins

nm wrote: »

It's a cost, it's going to be worked into the price. You're deluded if you think differently of any business.



I'm sure he includes all costs associated with running the business into the price. Nothing unusual there.

The problem is with advertising it as included. It's like advertising that the McDonald's employer's PRSI is included in the price of the hamburger.

Edit: it could also be misconstrued as the rent could be increased should the landlord's costs increase, which isn't allowed, except by the mechanism in the RTA 2004.

Emme

nm wrote: »

What's that got to do with the post you quoted? The sofa bed idea might be questionable but he's not cutting corners by calculating his total costs to include when coming up with an asking price.

Putting in a sofa bed instead of a proper bed IS cutting corners particularly when the sofa bed costs as much or less than a proper mattress.

Greaney

Rathmines2012 wrote: »

Hello,

Ive just bought a pre 63 house in Rathmines which includes two studios. Its located in a very popular part of Rathmines, bordering on Ranelagh close to town and offices. Im looking to refurbish both studios to a modern standard but ive a question id like some feedback on.

Currently both studios have a kitchenette, shower room, single bed and small dining table. Im thinking of removing the single bed and replacing it with a sofa bed in each. The sofa bed would be around the €350 - €400 mark and have a mattress comparable with a standard single. Ive listed the advantages and disadvantages below. What would be the consensus? Nay or ye?

Advantages
- gives the studio a better finish
- more likely to attract professionals as its like a one bed than a studio - there
isnt a single bed shoved in the corner that doubles as a couch also

Disdvantages
- professionals might be put off by the fact that they have to sleep on a sofa even
though it has a mattress the same as a standard single

Have you thought of renting unfurnished? Reduce the rent by a few quid and let the tenant worry about the furniture. Then they have the choice of design, type, new v second hand. Less headache for you, no?

Barely Hedged

Lux23 wrote: »

Have you checked daft? There are plenty of studios for €600 - €700 on Daft. I have a one bed flat for €750 on the SCR and it has all the mod cons including a bed for two!

You have asked for opinions from renters, but it seems you would prefer to ignore those in favour of spending as little as possible.

I have asked for legitimate feedback. I have searched Daft and i know my yield and prices attainable. Can you show me examples of the studios you mention above? Do they include gas, water and bins?

Barely Hedged

Greaney wrote: »

Have you thought of renting unfurnished? Reduce the rent by a few quid and let the tenant worry about the furniture. Then they have the choice of design, type, new v second hand. Less headache for you, no?

It would be my preferred option without a doubt. Unfortunately the market expects furnished

Barely Hedged

Emme wrote: »

Putting in a sofa bed instead of a proper bed IS cutting corners particularly when the sofa bed costs as much or less than a proper mattress.

It has nothing to do with cost. It was an option i was exploring for space optimisation in a studio. The price i quoted for a sofa bed was given based on the average cost of ones that i had researched.

endacl

Any chance you could knock through between the two studios? Create a livable flat for somebody?

Barely Hedged

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

The problem is with advertising it as included. It's like advertising that the McDonald's employer's PRSI is included in the price of the hamburger.

Edit: it could also be misconstrued as the rent could be increased should the landlord's costs increase, which isn't allowed, except by the mechanism in the RTA 2004.

Point taken - it will not be advertised as such.

My view on LPT still stands. It will be factored into my costings so the tenant will implicitly pay for it.

It is a tax to fund local amenities and services. This tax is one that funds services the tenant avails of, not the landlord. The reason that it was stated as an owner expense was a fudge by Labour and in the next governments life time it will be rolled back onto the tenant, like in the UK.

Barely Hedged

Emme wrote: »

That's fair enough if the business is providing a good service. Some businesses cut corners to make a quick buck in a buoyant market - for example a high-end restaurant in an affluent area serves poor quality food made from cheap inferior ingredients but charges gourmet prices for it. This approach only works in the short term and may end up costing the business more in the long term than if they had provided a quality service.

Passing on fixed costs, LPT etc is not cutting corners or providing a bad service. Its the reality of any viable business model.

Um, are you the OP?

Barely Hedged

endacl wrote: »

Any chance you could knock through between the two studios? Create a livable flat for somebody?

The spaces in the studios aren't small. I was just wondering what the opinion of the people here would be to optimising the space with a sofa bed.

In the example you have described I would get 1.2k max for the one bed. As two studios they have the potential to take in 1.5k to 1.6k a month. That could be up to 4.8k a year. I take your point, but the numbers speak for themselves